I'm white and I feel like I can't use any of the flesh modifiers without appearing racist. Selecting white flesh feels like I'm making some kind of pro-white statement. My Republican friends feel...
I'm white and I feel like I can't use any of the flesh modifiers without appearing racist. Selecting white flesh feels like I'm making some kind of pro-white statement. My Republican friends feel very comfortable using the white flesh modifiers. And if I pick another color, it feels like I'm appropriating or otherwise being inappropriate. My Fox News Dad used a black thumbs up emoji once and it was so weird and felt very wrong. So I just leave all mine yellow.
You’re not alone! I feel the exact same! I think of yellow as all-encompassing, or neutral, but, yeah, using the “white” skin tone feels like making a statement I don’t want to make.
You’re not alone! I feel the exact same! I think of yellow as all-encompassing, or neutral, but, yeah, using the “white” skin tone feels like making a statement I don’t want to make.
I'm black and I don't care, use whatever color you want. I'm also old so the mere notion of caring so much about emojis is alien and silly to me. So YMMV.
I'm black and I don't care, use whatever color you want. I'm also old so the mere notion of caring so much about emojis is alien and silly to me. So YMMV.
I could see both sides of it (also black). But ultimately I see it no different from choosing a character in a game different from your identified race/gender. As long as you're not actively...
I could see both sides of it (also black). But ultimately I see it no different from choosing a character in a game different from your identified race/gender. As long as you're not actively trying to claim you are something you're not, I don't see the harm, and I doubt many people are doing that.
To be honest, I'd go with a blue tone if I had full choice.
Sure that's how I think too. I do use dark emoji because I find it cool. But for the love of God, it's just a tiny fun icon to use when you don't wanna type. If you wanna be inclusive and have all...
Sure that's how I think too. I do use dark emoji because I find it cool. But for the love of God, it's just a tiny fun icon to use when you don't wanna type. If you wanna be inclusive and have all ethnicities, that's cool. But I'm really fine with anything as long as it's not a sieg heil or something like that.
Likewise. I want my thumbs-up to be JUST a thumbs-up. Not a thumbs-up that also contains metadata about my stated race, which has nothing to do with the thumbs-up. I don't understand why anyone...
Likewise. I want my thumbs-up to be JUST a thumbs-up. Not a thumbs-up that also contains metadata about my stated race, which has nothing to do with the thumbs-up. I don't understand why anyone would go out of their way to imbue a neutral icon with extra unrelated content, especially content in a politically charged category in today's climate. It's adding an additional statement beyond the thumbs-up, where none is warranted. I'll stick with the default yellow.
Slack recently changed how they display skin-modified emoji reactions. They used to show the icon by itself, and then if you hovered over it you could see any variants that people had used. Now they show all the variants side by side at the top level, in an awkward super-wide pill button that draws attention to the skin tones. You might have 30 thumbs-up reactions on a post, but Slack feels compelled to surface which shades of melanin did (and did not) comprise them. It's so unnecessary and weird.
This is closest to my view on the subject. It's not that I worry about conveying a racist undertone (although I quite see how that's a genuine concern), it's that I'm unconvinced by the need to...
This is closest to my view on the subject. It's not that I worry about conveying a racist undertone (although I quite see how that's a genuine concern), it's that I'm unconvinced by the need to convey racial information in emoji at all.
From what I see in my chats, though, the majority of people (of all skin tones) do seem to want to use them - so the only time I'd ever think of raising my conceptual grumble about the subject is in a very specific thread like this. I'm happy to accept that most people apparently do want to add that information, even if I don't really get that desire.
I personally find it takes too long to change the skin tone of an emoji rather than just select the default. The point is a picture to represent an idea or an emotion, not to physically represent...
I personally find it takes too long to change the skin tone of an emoji rather than just select the default. The point is a picture to represent an idea or an emotion, not to physically represent me.
But I also understand this kind of representation is both necessary and good. Some people do use it to represent themselves. Others, are simply constantly reminded that white people still dominate culture and others have to fight for representation. I think we should not lose sight that this can be incredibly important for others and celebrate this ability to customize, even if we do not use it ourselves.
I do wonder how much the colour of the basic emoji set influenced the need to develop the skin tone set. The yellow is definitely not human, and I doubt a huge amount of thought was put into it...
I do wonder how much the colour of the basic emoji set influenced the need to develop the skin tone set. The yellow is definitely not human, and I doubt a huge amount of thought was put into it when they were created, but in a white-by-default cultural environment it's kind of close enough to be interpreted as a stand in for white.
I don't know how it was intended by the creators, and I was quite surprised that the original Docomo set doesn't have the faces in at all, but if they'd been bright green to start with I wonder if that would've avoided the link to human skin tones altogether?
It's also got the existence of The Simpsons against it, a show where everyone who is white in it is animated as yellow (and the Japanese and Chinese characters are a bit paler of a yellow, and the...
It's also got the existence of The Simpsons against it, a show where everyone who is white in it is animated as yellow (and the Japanese and Chinese characters are a bit paler of a yellow, and the Indian character is brown).
I liked the old google emojis (https://emojipedia.org/google/android-7.0/) that were this weird yellow blob creature that was distinctly abstract and not human. First of all, they were downright cute, but they also had this abstract quality to them where they're not human but could stand in for humans -- still has the same Simpsons problem I suppose.
I feel similarly. I think if you're uncomfortable with it, there's no issue with the default. I don't want to assert my whiteness, so I simply just use the default. It's also just less effort,...
I feel similarly. I think if you're uncomfortable with it, there's no issue with the default. I don't want to assert my whiteness, so I simply just use the default. It's also just less effort, even if the limit of that effort is setting a default in a menu.
Haven't really put much thought into it, I usually stick with what comes first (yellow), but I'm not actually sure what flesh color I would use either. I'm not White, but I suppose that the white...
Haven't really put much thought into it, I usually stick with what comes first (yellow), but I'm not actually sure what flesh color I would use either. I'm not White, but I suppose that the white skin tone is closest to my actual skin tone. I could use yellow, although that seems racist to myself.
I was kind of surprised, but thinking about it, they maintain a full set of literally thousands of original images - managing the actual design work, cultural norms and sensitivities across the...
I was kind of surprised, but thinking about it, they maintain a full set of literally thousands of original images - managing the actual design work, cultural norms and sensitivities across the globe, technical details (of which this is a prime example), and annual updates sounds like a full time job to me.
Fair enough. I'm surprised there is Director level of work there, and even more importantly, Above is the main reason which makes below overly complicated: In essence, I can't help but think that...
Fair enough. I'm surprised there is Director level of work there, and even more importantly,
cultural norms and sensitivities across the globe
Above is the main reason which makes below overly complicated:
design work,...,technical details
In essence, I can't help but think that Google et al. are fighting the problem they created (overly sensitive and tribalized populace). Like digging trench around the forest after starting the wildfire.
I'm white and I feel like I can't use any of the flesh modifiers without appearing racist. Selecting white flesh feels like I'm making some kind of pro-white statement. My Republican friends feel very comfortable using the white flesh modifiers. And if I pick another color, it feels like I'm appropriating or otherwise being inappropriate. My Fox News Dad used a black thumbs up emoji once and it was so weird and felt very wrong. So I just leave all mine yellow.
Is this just me?
You’re not alone! I feel the exact same! I think of yellow as all-encompassing, or neutral, but, yeah, using the “white” skin tone feels like making a statement I don’t want to make.
I'm black and I don't care, use whatever color you want. I'm also old so the mere notion of caring so much about emojis is alien and silly to me. So YMMV.
I could see both sides of it (also black). But ultimately I see it no different from choosing a character in a game different from your identified race/gender. As long as you're not actively trying to claim you are something you're not, I don't see the harm, and I doubt many people are doing that.
To be honest, I'd go with a blue tone if I had full choice.
Sure that's how I think too. I do use dark emoji because I find it cool. But for the love of God, it's just a tiny fun icon to use when you don't wanna type. If you wanna be inclusive and have all ethnicities, that's cool. But I'm really fine with anything as long as it's not a sieg heil or something like that.
Likewise. I want my thumbs-up to be JUST a thumbs-up. Not a thumbs-up that also contains metadata about my stated race, which has nothing to do with the thumbs-up. I don't understand why anyone would go out of their way to imbue a neutral icon with extra unrelated content, especially content in a politically charged category in today's climate. It's adding an additional statement beyond the thumbs-up, where none is warranted. I'll stick with the default yellow.
Slack recently changed how they display skin-modified emoji reactions. They used to show the icon by itself, and then if you hovered over it you could see any variants that people had used. Now they show all the variants side by side at the top level, in an awkward super-wide pill button that draws attention to the skin tones. You might have 30 thumbs-up reactions on a post, but Slack feels compelled to surface which shades of melanin did (and did not) comprise them. It's so unnecessary and weird.
This is closest to my view on the subject. It's not that I worry about conveying a racist undertone (although I quite see how that's a genuine concern), it's that I'm unconvinced by the need to convey racial information in emoji at all.
From what I see in my chats, though, the majority of people (of all skin tones) do seem to want to use them - so the only time I'd ever think of raising my conceptual grumble about the subject is in a very specific thread like this. I'm happy to accept that most people apparently do want to add that information, even if I don't really get that desire.
I'm not white and I still think emojis are more trouble than they are worth.
Just make'em all green and call it a day.
I personally find it takes too long to change the skin tone of an emoji rather than just select the default. The point is a picture to represent an idea or an emotion, not to physically represent me.
But I also understand this kind of representation is both necessary and good. Some people do use it to represent themselves. Others, are simply constantly reminded that white people still dominate culture and others have to fight for representation. I think we should not lose sight that this can be incredibly important for others and celebrate this ability to customize, even if we do not use it ourselves.
I do wonder how much the colour of the basic emoji set influenced the need to develop the skin tone set. The yellow is definitely not human, and I doubt a huge amount of thought was put into it when they were created, but in a white-by-default cultural environment it's kind of close enough to be interpreted as a stand in for white.
I don't know how it was intended by the creators, and I was quite surprised that the original Docomo set doesn't have the faces in at all, but if they'd been bright green to start with I wonder if that would've avoided the link to human skin tones altogether?
It's also got the existence of The Simpsons against it, a show where everyone who is white in it is animated as yellow (and the Japanese and Chinese characters are a bit paler of a yellow, and the Indian character is brown).
I liked the old google emojis (https://emojipedia.org/google/android-7.0/) that were this weird yellow blob creature that was distinctly abstract and not human. First of all, they were downright cute, but they also had this abstract quality to them where they're not human but could stand in for humans -- still has the same Simpsons problem I suppose.
Same here.
I feel similarly. I think if you're uncomfortable with it, there's no issue with the default. I don't want to assert my whiteness, so I simply just use the default. It's also just less effort, even if the limit of that effort is setting a default in a menu.
Haven't really put much thought into it, I usually stick with what comes first (yellow), but I'm not actually sure what flesh color I would use either. I'm not White, but I suppose that the white skin tone is closest to my actual skin tone. I could use yellow, although that seems racist to myself.
Here is Google's blog post about the topic citing the same author OP linked, who is Google's creative director for emoji.
So google has a 'Creative Director' for 'emoji'?
The things you read..
I was kind of surprised, but thinking about it, they maintain a full set of literally thousands of original images - managing the actual design work, cultural norms and sensitivities across the globe, technical details (of which this is a prime example), and annual updates sounds like a full time job to me.
Fair enough. I'm surprised there is Director level of work there, and even more importantly,
Above is the main reason which makes below overly complicated:
In essence, I can't help but think that Google et al. are fighting the problem they created (overly sensitive and tribalized populace). Like digging trench around the forest after starting the wildfire.
I weep for the future of humanity.
Google created a tribalized and overly sensitive populace?
Honestly, that surprised me too haha.