Questions about Apple TV 4K (2021)
Hello everyone.
Sorry if this is a long post.
I currently have a dumb TV 1080p at home and, during my searches on Reddit and so on, I've chosen between the Nvidia Shield Pro and the new Apple TV 4K, at the end, I've concluded to get the Apple TV because of the regular software updates. With the Shield, people are already complaining, and they aren't having updates for a while (but please, you can try to convince me otherwise).
My main objectives for the box are:
- Watching YouTube / HBO;
- Watching / Listening my local content (films, music, etc.);
- PC gaming streaming from desktop to the TV.
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About game streaming directly from my desktop, how good does it work? I saw people saying the Shield is better for gaming but, if I use AMD Link or Steam Link, I would think it does not matter if it is the Apple TV or Shield, or? Maybe the Shield has better support for GeForce Now, but I do not use the service.
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How easy is to watch / listen to my content that is currently on my laptop / desktop? I saw people simply saying to use Infuse or Plex and stream it to the Apple TV. Is there a better way?
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Are there things that I should be "careful" with the Apple TV? I remember the time that my wife bought our iPad, and it was hard to just find how to upload a TV series and run it with subtitles. (facepalm) There is no complexity like this on Android, honestly, no software to install on my pc, etc.
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I saw a lot of people complaining about the support of codecs on the Apple TV comparing to the Shield. Stuff like, no TrueHD audio, no DTS:X, no lossless audio pass-through, transcoding, etc. So many topics that got me confused, since I'm not an expert in this field. If my goal for the future is to buy an amazing 4K "smart" TV and soundbar that both have Dolby Vision and Atmos, and most of my content are local downloaded films or streaming from HBO or Netflix, how important are all of these missing "features" from the Apple TV? People also said to just use Plex or Infuse, and they will have the "audio features" that the Apple TV is natively missing. So, honestly, I didn't understand all the discussion regarding this and why was the Shield better if other apps can support the codecs and missing features.
I think that is all, thank you in advance for all the replies 🙂
I own one of these. A lot of friends and coworkers had them and were pretty happy with them and I was just starting to buy into the Apple ecosystem at the time this was announced so I decided to take the plunge.
Using Steam Link has been indistinguishable vs. running it on an android device. The real big difference is that the AppleTV has fairly decent Wi-Fi, so unlike a lot of other devices out there I didn’t feel the need to connect it to Ethernet to get an acceptable experience since I have a good Wi-Fi system to back it up. The one thing to notice is that AppleTV seems to be a bit picky about what controllers will work on it. My favorite Bluetooth controller disconnects after a while, but others work fine.
I honestly haven’t tried to watch stuff stored on my computer, but theoretically that feature is built in - at least if your computer is a Mac. I do not know if it has something similar for PCs or any UPnP support whatsoever but I’m sure there’s an app for that. You could easily use Plex and that will have the benefit of working on pretty much all of your devices. You do also get the benefit of Airplay you can use from any of your Apple devices, and it’s somewhat magical to be able to use your TV that way.
There’s only one thing I have found annoying with AppleTV, and that’s apps that do not follow conventions. There are some gestures you need to know how to use to get the best experience, like swiping down to get to subtitle and audio options, and some apps will ignore or disable those features. I don’t know why; it always makes the experience worse.
I don’t know about specific codec support but I can tell you that most popular media server software can automatically live transcode video to something your device supports. It’s another reason you might want to choose something like Plex. And as far as apps go I have not seen any reason to believe that they are any worse than the iPad versions; generally they look better on a TV.
Thanks for your comments.
But it is good to hear that Steam Link also work good for you too. Then, I'm a bit relieved that it will work, probably. My WLAN sucks a bit, maybe Ethernet will be enough. The desktop is next to the router but not the TV where the Apple TV would be.
I have Windows, but from what I've seen it is seems easy to have your files on your desktop and share the folder on your local network and Infuse would probably find it.
Which controller do you have? I have an Xbox controller, I would hope that is mainstream enough to be supported.
Argh, mildly annoying, thanks for letting me know. But I think it is still okay, it would not prevent me from not buying the device :)
My controller of choice is the 8bitdo SN30 Plus.
Afaik the only officially supported controllers are the MFI certified Bluetooth ones or DualShock 4.
DualShock 4, dualsense, Xbox one (possibly series controllers, not sure) and mfi.
Nice, thank you!
But NOT 8BitDo Pro 2. For some reason it does not jive well, at least with my unit. It tries and fails at emulating a Dualshock contoller with Apple TV (very solid controller otherwise).
I have two official Xbox controllers. One is the Xbox One controller. The other is an older one, so maybe that one, will give me problems...
I have a latest edition apple tv.
For the apps, it’s smooth as butter an integrates well with my other apple stuff. This is especially true if you use apple music. But I use deezer, which is great with airplay, lousy native app (same for spotify and pandora, both of which I have used).
Local audio content is easy when using itunes and home sharing.
Local video content is awesome using itunes and home sharing if codecs are
Compatible, and it’s sometimes unpredictable. But handbrake is awesome, but an extra step(s).
Infuse works ok shared from a windows machine.
Worry about plex and privacy
Apple arcade is pretty neat, especially for my elementary school aged kids.
I also use Deezer actually, that is a shame about the native app. My problem, that I forgot to mention is that I don't have a Mac, just iPad, I know it works but, it so much comfortable from my desktop PC.
If I have a Windows OS, is it still possible to use iTunes and home sharing? I was just thinking in researching later if I use Plex or Infuse. What is the issue of Plex's privacy? One of the points in choosing Apple TV was also the privacy. I trust Apple more in this regard. At least Google is not learning my viewing habits.
I have an infant and a toddler, so probably it will be handy in the future ;) Do you recommend any didactic games?
I’m not familiar with AMD Link or Steam Link, but unless you can find evidence that Apple TV support these streaming features, I am highly doubtful Apple supports these things. Apple TV hardware is very app-centric. It is technically capable of streaming content over your network from a local Mac or PC, but that experience is really lesser than the experience of consuming content through dedicated apps like the Apple’s own TV app, Netflix, Hulu, HBO, etc.
It’s not hard given that the media is first imported into the Music or TV apps on a Mac or iOS device. You can also use AirPlay from such devices, or set up a PC to do the same with various 3rd party softwares. AirPlay on a fast local network is fine. Not great, but given the bandwidth requirements, you really aren’t going to do better than 1080p or so. Given your TV is 1080p natively, that’s probably fine for you, though. (My point is mainly, if you have 4k content on your PC and you are hoping to stream it over AirPlay, it’s going to get compressed to all hell. It’ll still be watchable, but won’t be a great way to experience your content.)
Yes, if you are planning to watch content on Apple TV, you should probably convert video files using
ffmpegor HandBrake or some such tool using a preset that is known to be compatible your model. There are myriad vagaries of modern video formats that can muck things up, such as multiple video or audio streams and multiple subtitle tracks. Not to mention container formats like.mkvvs..mp4etc. See, for example, this post explaining the special flag you need to give toffmpegwhen converting HEVC files so that Apple recognizes it.I think if you’re planning to mostly consume media that you store locally on your PC then setting up Plex or something of that nature is going to give you a much better experience than trying to consume it through an Apple TV. Apple has a lot of expectations about media to make it work properly, and unless you are willing to go quite far into the weeds, or just consume content from sources Apple has blessed (i.e., apps created for the Apple TV and distributed by Apple), you’re going to run into issues sooner or later.
tl;dr Apple TV works very well if you’re consuming content from streaming services that have designated apps on the platform, or streaming content that has been prepared in a media format that it expects. It does not work well outside those expectations.
https://apps.apple.com/ca/app/steam-link/id1246969117#?platform=appleTV
https://apps.apple.com/us/app/amd-link/id1319000900#?platform=appleTV
Cool, so these are supported by apps. Have you used either of these? I could imagine latency issues unless the controller/keyboard/mouse you use is connected to the PC directly rather than hopping through the Apple TV and over the network.
(Having tried Xbox Cloud Gaming, the latency is way too bad to be usable for me, but maybe on a local network it is playable.)
I have used Steam Link quite a bit, but not on Apple TV (since I don't own one). It works great on my iPad and iPhone though. The latency makes playing reflex based games much more annoying/difficult, but for games that don't require quick reflexes I honestly barely notice.
p.s. I usually have my Xbox Controller paired to my iPad/iPhone, and play over my local network.
Thank you for the info. If I have an Xbox controller, would it make sense to connect to the Apple TV or to the desktop?
I use Steam Link whenever I am away from my desktop, in another part of the house or in my backyard, but still want to play a PC game. So for me the controller needs to be paired with my iPad/iPhone, since my desktop would be out of range. But if you have your Apple TV and desktop in the same room, it probably makes the most sense to have the controller paired with your desktop in order to reduce input lag.
Yes, the desktop and TV are on the same room, so connecting to the desktop is better like you said, thank you for the help :)
May want to run a long HDMI cable from the PC to the TV then? Or is it not that close?
No, they are on opposite sides of the living room. By the way, I also read that you need to buy a 4K HDMI cable for the Apple TV. Is this really needed at the moment since I still don't have a 4K TV? Basically, should I buy this HDMI cable now or when I buy my 4K TV?
My TV and PC are on opposite sides of my living room too, with a entranceway in between them. Yet I still have them hooked up via HDMI using a 50ft cable stealthily routed around the room. And it wasn't that expensive to do either. The 50ft HDMI 2.0 CL3 (commercial grade) cable I bought was only $50. It's even white too, which matches my room's baseboards, trim, and moulding, so it's barely noticeable.
So regardless of the distance between your PC and TV, HDMI is definitely an option I would recommend considering. AppleTV is decent, by all accounts, but it's still much more restricted in what it can do compared to simply treating your TV as an extra monitor+speaker using HDMI.
p.s. Anything above HDMI 1.3 will support 4K, but the signal tends to degrade much quicker on those older version cables, so they can't be as long as the higher version cables can while still supporting 4K. Most cables you can buy these days are HDMI 2.0 though, which should be fine with 4K up to ~50ft (depending on their build quality). Any longer than that and you can still use HDMI, you just need to buy an "active" cable, or signal booster to go along with the standard "passive" cable.
I actually have an HDMI 2.0 that I don't use, and it came with the desktop monitor, so it should work fine with the Apple 4K TV. But thanks for the good tip, regarding the big HDMI case. In case, game streaming does not work as expected, I can just connect directly to the TV.
1: The Steam Link app for Apple TV works wonderfully.
2: If you have a Mac, this is trivial using AirPlay. On Windows, videos can be shared with the Apple TV pretty easily using iTunes. Apps like Infuse can also access network file shares.
3: I found it pretty easy to use, but I also don't find putting movies on my iPad difficult at all, so your mileage may vary.
4: What the Apple TV does not support is HDMI bitstreaming formats other than Dolby Digital (compressed audio up to 7.1 channels, with Atmos). Bitstreaming is where the original audio stream on your blu-ray or video file is sent directly to your receiver to be decoded to PCM, rather than being decoded on the source device. If your vision of the future stops at a sound bar, I wouldn't worry about this. If you don't really know what any of this means, then it really doesn't matter.
It is interesting that, in this post, some people say that gaming is not a good experience over the Apple TV, but curiously, some people also say it runs without problems. I'm a bit confused if it due to the hardware (router, specs of desktop, software (mac or windows) or simply the internet speed. I would assume Steam Link works fine in any hardware if the connection and speed are good enough.
I have Windows, so I was going for Infuse or Plex. People really recommend using one of those, but sadly Jellyfin is not yet natively supported. Maybe using MrMC and Jellyfin server would be enough.
Yes, thank you, I forgot about the bitstreaming "issue". Some people were mentioning that. Like you said, I don't know about it, I would need to investigate it still and probably it is not important for me. But, I would not mind investigating if, for example, you say it is indispensable for your audio experience. At the end of the day, sound is more essential than video, that is why I would not mind buying the expensive Sennheiser soundbar (I even have a huge discount). So, in conclusion, am I missing a significant "feature", not having bitstreaming? Would I suffer quality wise, if I just use a soundbar (or the soundbar with one of those small speakers behind the sofa)?
I will say that I personally do not find gaming on an Apple TV to be a great experience, even though I said the Steam Link app works wonderfully. This isn't the Apple TV's fault, or Steam's fault. I just don't find game streaming looks or feels as good as playing directly on the hardware. The latency is very noticeable to me, even when the server and client are on the same switch. Many games also do not compress to a video stream particularly well.
Steam Remote Play makes playing PC games in my living room convenient, at the cost of quality. Many people have already decided that this is a worthwhile tradeoff, so for them I am happy to recommend the Apple TV as a great client device. For me, I use it sometimes, for games where I feel the added latency and video compression are not a big deal.
For the bitstreaming issue, I should elaborate on how little of an issue it really is for a set-top streaming device: All the media sources the Apple TV is designed to consume are already providing a compressed audio stream. Usually Dolby Digital or AAC. Bitstreaming was designed for use with Blu-Ray players. Discs often provide optional, uncompressed audio tracks in formats like DTS-MA and Dolby TrueHD. The only use for this feature on an Apple TV would be for watching blu-ray rips that keep these original audio streams intact, on a sound system capable of decoding these formats and making good use of them.
Thank you so much for the insight.
Regarding gaming on the Apple TV, I guess, I'll just have to wait and see if I find it tolerable or not.
Regarding bitstreaming, then I guess it is a non issue since I don't even have a blu-ray optical drive. But if by any chance in the future I have that itch to rip them, I think it is still a non issue. I've searched a bit and it seems Infuse also can handle those rips with TrueHD and DTS-MA. But please tell me if I'm wrong.
Yeah, both Infuse and Plex will transcode TrueHD and DTS-MA to Dolby Digital or PCM (the latter will be downmixed to 5.1 channels if the source is 7.1). The vast majority of blu-rays also include a Dolby Digital track that can just played directly on the Apple TV.
Perfect, thank you so much for the help :)
Game streaming is pretty great these days! It depends on your home networking setup of course. I haven't used AMD Link, but I've used the Nvidia equivalent called Moonlight which is excellent. The one advantage it has over the otherwise-just-as-excellent Steam Link is that it also supports HDR and 120fps, if that is something your TV is capable of.
The interesting thing is that it doesn't require much by way of hardware these days from the receiving device, so these run great even natively on HDTV's. I don't think you need to really worry too much about needing the advanced hardware of something like the Shield for an application like this.
I've heard of Moonlight and how cool is it. Sadly, I have a Team Red build :) But, I would hope that Steam or AMD Link is enough.
Nevertheless, it is good to know, that you don't need a lot of hardware to stream these days. I never tried streaming, so I'm curious to see who it works out. :)
I remembered two last topics:
What do you like the AI upscaler? I've read that the upscaler is better on the Shield because it can upscale from 480 or 720p to 4k, while the Apple TV only upscales from 1080p. Nevertheless, what do find of the upscaled image? Does it contain any artefacts or softness?
If you are a previous owner of an Apple TV, does Apple add new feature as time goes on? Or basically are the features set from the release? I'm thinking of the upscaler using other lower resolutions like on the Shield or adding better codec support, for example.
I didn’t have answers for almost if your questions but I wanted to give my opinion about the Apple TV: it is great, even if you aren’t in the apple ecosystem.
I have tried chrome casts, roku, fire tv, and Visio and Samsung smart TVs, and they are all complete crap. I have a 4K v1 at my house and I just got a 1080p one used for my parents (who have no apple devices). Roku comes the closest to being a good streaming platform, but I have been dealing with some really annoying problems lately, mostly having to do with surround sound. The Apple TV is setup now and really does “just work” like the roku is supposed to. It’s pretty old, so the performance isn’t great, but it still gets all the software updates and runs way better than my roku (streaming stick plus). The Apple TV integration with streaming apps, in my opinion, sets apple platforms as the best platform for streaming anything.
Also, for anyone with purchased movies who may be changing platforms, check out MoviesAnywhere. It lets you combine a bunch of service’s libraries and play them from any of the services.
Thank you for commenting your opinions. ;) I've already decided to buy the Apple TV tomorrow, probably. Like you said, I think that the Apple TV is probably the best device in terms of software, hardware, apps, stability and ease of use. Yes, maybe there are few if's, but no device is perfect.
Maybe you can tell me a bit about these two topics:
Do you like the AI upscaler? I've read that the upscaler is better on the Shield because it can upscale from 480p or 720p to 4k, while the Apple TV only upscales from 1080p. Nevertheless, what do you find of the upscaled image? Does it contain any artefacts or softness?
Since you are an owner of a previous Apple TV version, does Apple add new feature as time goes on? Or basically are the features set from the release? I'm thinking, for example, improvement of the upscaler using other lower resolutions like on the Shield or adding better codec support, for example.
Upscaling: I honestly did not know that the Apple TV did any upscaling. I don’t have any local content, and most streaming content is already in 1080p or 4K anyway. Also, my (roommate’s) TV is only slightly above the cheapest 4K TV you can buy, so I’m not sure I would notice.
Software: one of the things that I love about apple is that they take an “all or nothing” approach to software updates. As in: if the device is supported still, you get all updates possible, if the device is unsupported, you get nothing. This, with their long support window, makes their software updates pretty awesome. If a new version of their software is coming out, with a feature you want, and your device is getting the new software, unless there is a hardware limitation you will get that feature. The apple TV 4th gen is the oldest supported device. This is the one I got my parents, and was released in 2015. 7+ years is a pretty good track record for supporting a streaming device, considering google pretty much forgot the first gen Chromecast existed once the second gen was released (I still have a first gen).
When apple released the latest model Apple TV, they announced a feature that scanned your TV screen with a faceid iPhone as a colorimeter to fix the color accuracy of content. In their presentation, it seemed like it was exclusive to the new model. In fact, it works with all currently supported Apple TV devices. A device from 2015 getting a feature that didn’t exist until 2021. (This is the same scenario that happens with iPhones. I have a 6s+, also released in 2015, that just got the same iOS 15 update as my iPhone 12. It still feels decently fast. If it weren’t for the terrible battery life, which I could fix, it would be a great phone even today.)
Really? Wow, that is really amazing. It even makes me want to buy an iPhone because this reduces e-waste basically. My Android smartphones after 4-5 years are junk, even after making a factory reset. Thanks again for the thorough response. I've already bought the Apple TV! Have a good one, cheers!
It really is amazing!
Some important bits: apple is by no means perfect. They have been accused of intentionally slowing down older devices with very bloated software updates. I have been back in the apple camp since the end of iOS 13, so I have only seen their behavior recently. There are plenty of very valid accusations to throw at apple, but device support is not one of them.
My theory is that as device power plateaus, apple will keep updating things longer and longer. The iPhone 6s and original SE are the longest supported iOS devices (started on iOS 9, now have iOS 15). I think that each new batch of iPhones will have a longer support window. Eventually, you will have to look for a decade old or older device to find one that is not supported. At least I hope this comes to pass.
Another thing apple likes to do is care about the environment, but only when convenient. They removed a charger from the new iPhone box because they “care for the environment”, but also release AirPods and remove the headphone jacks, which are both ewaste disasters. However, in my opinion, this is mitigated by their support of older products. All of your android manufacturers release AirPods equivalent that are repairable, but also release smartphones that don’t get security updates, let alone version updates, after 2 years.
Just for perspective, in order to match apple, these phones would need to have the update to android 12 on release date:
Samsung S6
Samsung Note 5
Blackberry Priv
Moto X Pure
LG G4
Nexus 6P
OnePlus X
Do you remember any of these? I guarantee the manufacturers have forgotten about them.
Edit: also their computers. Windows 10 was pretty good at not dropping support for older devices, but Windows 11 changes that. The oldest officially supported processors (I may have missed some) are from 2019. macOS Monterey, the latest version, supports general most macs back to 2015, and some high end ones back to 2013 (Mac Pro). At least Microsoft will be supporting Windows 10 for a good bit, but this is still disappointing.