33 votes

The first time I have seen a locked post on tildes and frankly Im scared it's the start of the 'reddit-fication' of Tildes

I just saw this post: NY Times defends hiring of editorial writer after emergence of past racial tweets. Now the article is a whole discussion in itself and just to openly reveal any bias I might have I personally do think the comments that were made are very much racist as they generalise a large group of people based on their skin colour in a negative light. I also consider myself a centrist (That's in UK terms, very much a supporter of the democrats in the US), although this information isn't crucial and not strictly relevant I feel biases should be known and taken into consideration.

My issue with the post wasn't with the article that was good and provided good discussion that I feel suites Tildes perfectly, it's a controversial and divisive subject and generally online this would be a atrocious thing to debate. Yet I view Tildes as a place of openness and willingness to debate that doesn't resort to generalisations and sweeping statements. This is the kind of post that would be great for Tildes as it would allow discussion that wasn't a complete mess, it's a rare place where you are able to talk about such topics that are debates not fights.

11 Hours after the post went live it was locked by Deimos.

This is frankly shameful and appalling. Now I don't blame Deimos. As far as I'm aware he's the only one currently moderating so I can only imagine the difficulty to moderate such a topic, yet I feel rather disappointed, I don't see any justification or reasoning for the post being locked and in future I would like some statement explaining why. In a perfect world I would prefer no post to be locked but I'm aware that's difficult with lack of moderators. No post should ever just be locked with no reason given.

Now, I must confess I am unaware of any comments being removed and I must assume there must of been to lead to the post becoming locked which would help be understand as to why it happened, this is purely speculation and would greatly appreciate a direct statement from Deimos explaining why even just a sentence saying there was lots of hate.

Although I think this is a issue I can understand why this happened in the early days of Tildes, it's still being developed on and I get the vibe he enjoys creating a community and a place for discussion not moderating and removing comments. Later on I do not expect or want this to happen.

My main issue though arises from the users. Looking in the comments there was a specific comment that stood out as being especially un-Tildes like:

I think Ms. Jeong's tweets about white people are hilarious. The fact that she annoys conservatives is reason enough to hire her.

Although the first half I disagree with it's the user expressing their opinion, that's OK. My main issue is the second half "The fact that she annoys conservatives is reason enough to hire her" that one sentence alone infuriates me. It's such a ignorant statement. The comment provides little input into the discussion and just feeds the us vs them mentality of politics which thrives in today's political debates everything is now a black and white issue. I view Tildes as a place that looks past meaningless statements like this, the comment also had 7 votes. Thankfully the response criticising this had 20 votes which does suggest the majority of the community dislike the comment as well.

Although I selected this comment as I felt it best represented the problem but there were a noticeable presence of low input comments which merely just resulted in people passively aggressively arguing with each others comments and very little comments focusing on the actual article itself.

Perhaps this is what people want, but it's the first time on Tildes I have seen a noticeable presence of low effort and poor comments. Admittedly maybe I just have the wrong opinion on Tildes and I'm in the minority but to me it felt very much unlike what Tildes should be. It feels there's a growing minority of Reddit like comments. I must acknowledge that a lot of the comments I disagree with had few votes and perhaps there just wasn't enough comments to drown them out, low effort comments are easier to make and more frequent than good quality comments, and maybe once the user base increases so will the high quality comments.

In summery I think locked posts should be clearly shown why they are locked, perhaps it's time moderation increased to prevent this in the future, this is a whole issue in in itself. More crucially I think we need to keep an eye on users that post low quality comment and call them out on it for being un-tildes like, If nothing is done It's a threat to the quality discussion that tildes is based on.

90 comments

  1. [21]
    demifiend
    (edited )
    Link
    You're right. I could have done better. I could have said that it seems that in the last five years or so every time a woman, someone who isn't white, or even a white guy who leans too far to the...

    My main issue is the second half "The fact that she annoys conservatives is reason enough to hire her" that one sentence alone infuriates me. It's such a ignorant statement.

    You're right. I could have done better. I could have said that it seems that in the last five years or so every time a woman, someone who isn't white, or even a white guy who leans too far to the political left manages any sort of success there's a mob of internet brownshirts determined to tear them down by dredging up old indiscretions and stirring up false controversy. We saw it with Zoe Quinn via Gamergate. We saw it done to James Gunn. We're seeing it done to Sarah Jeong.

    I'm sick of it. I'm sick of conservatives as a whole consenting to such tactics by their refusal to condemn them. Frankly, I'm sick of conservatives and conservatism as a whole. I'm sick of their nostalgia for "good old days" that weren't all that great for most people. I'm sick of their anti-intellectualism and willful ignorance. I'm sick of their piety. I'm sick of their false morality, their obsession with sex and their refusal to do anything meaningful about real problems like poverty. Most of all, I'm sick of their willingness to abet fascism just to stay in power so they can continue to help rich rentiers get even richer.

    But rather than say all of that I spoke from the heart and said what I said. I spoke in anger. I meant it, I stand by it, but if it isn't suitable for Tildes I'll try to do better in the future.

    67 votes
    1. [5]
      SourceContribute
      Link Parent
      It's not conservatism. It's far more insidious: it's totalitarianism. They will use whatever means are necessary to win, and they will shift facts into fiction and vice versa to get what they want...

      It's not conservatism. It's far more insidious: it's totalitarianism. They will use whatever means are necessary to win, and they will shift facts into fiction and vice versa to get what they want which is just power and control. Many others have sacrificed themselves for totalitarianism because they want a brief fleeting moment of power over others.

      By internet mobbing they're trying to show who's boss. "What you say can hurt you, so shut up" is their message. What makes this insidious is that this can be applied all over the world. Internet mobbing of this kind is just privatized totalitarianism and censorship.

      20 votes
      1. [4]
        demifiend
        Link Parent
        I know, but I no longer care. This totalitarianism arose out of the right. It arose out of conservatism. Do we see conservatives doing anything meaningful to stop it? I don't, so as far as I'm...

        It's not conservatism. It's far more insidious: it's totalitarianism.

        I know, but I no longer care. This totalitarianism arose out of the right. It arose out of conservatism. Do we see conservatives doing anything meaningful to stop it? I don't, so as far as I'm concerned conservatives are nothing but quislings.

        24 votes
        1. [3]
          Amarok
          Link Parent
          This is why these movements always self-destruct in the long run, though they can do a lot of damage in the interim. Conservatism used to be about taking things slow, measuring facts and progress,...

          This is why these movements always self-destruct in the long run, though they can do a lot of damage in the interim.

          Conservatism used to be about taking things slow, measuring facts and progress, and trusting people more than the government. The hate-machine that has taken over has buried them and their more reasonable philosophy along with them. Now it has to burn itself out.

          8 votes
          1. [2]
            demifiend
            Link Parent
            This is pretty much Eisenhower conservatism, as I understand it. It's the sort of conservatism I could have gotten behind. Not anymore.

            Conservatism used to be about taking things slow, measuring facts and progress, and trusting people more than the government.

            This is pretty much Eisenhower conservatism, as I understand it. It's the sort of conservatism I could have gotten behind. Not anymore.

            9 votes
            1. Amarok
              Link Parent
              Yep. By not standing up to the hate machine, those conservatives have condemned that philosophy to history's dumpster bin. It'll now be forever conflated with Trump's face and protesters driving...

              Yep. By not standing up to the hate machine, those conservatives have condemned that philosophy to history's dumpster bin. It'll now be forever conflated with Trump's face and protesters driving cars through crowds, no matter how smart or eloquent the advocates are.

              5 votes
    2. [6]
      TeaBagTwat
      Link Parent
      Perhaps maybe the problem for me is I view 'Conservatives' as a very large range of people with extremely varying political views. I agree with you in the sense that there is that small community...

      Perhaps maybe the problem for me is I view 'Conservatives' as a very large range of people with extremely varying political views. I agree with you in the sense that there is that small community on the far right who will scream if you are slightly to the left of Mussolini and will defend their view points to the end of the earth. But that is a small very vocal group, a large amount perhaps just are more economically favourable of free trade, or personal freedom, it's such a large sweeping statement that's where my issue stems from.

      9 votes
      1. [3]
        demifiend
        (edited )
        Link Parent
        You're probably thinking of British conservatives: Tories and the like. I'm talking about US conservatives: Republicans, etc. Be that as it may, I've heard this song before. "Oh, they're not real...

        Perhaps maybe the problem for me is I view 'Conservatives' as a very large range of people with extremely varying political views

        You're probably thinking of British conservatives: Tories and the like. I'm talking about US conservatives: Republicans, etc. Be that as it may, I've heard this song before.

        • "Oh, they're not real conservatives. They're fascists."
        • "Oh, they're not real Christians. They're fundies."
        • "Oh, they're not true Scotsmen."

        With a bit of effort I could discern between "real conservatives" and fascists, but that is not an effort I am willing to make any longer. I'm not ready to say "Kill 'em all" yet, but I am willing to "let God sort 'em out".

        Patience is not one of my few virtues.

        23 votes
        1. [2]
          Alekhine
          Link Parent
          I think I'm probably one of the youngest users on Tildes. I'm also a dedicated lurker, so I'm glad I finally have something to say. My father, an educated lawyer, and in my opinion a very good...

          I think I'm probably one of the youngest users on Tildes. I'm also a dedicated lurker, so I'm glad I finally have something to say.

          My father, an educated lawyer, and in my opinion a very good man, voted for Trump. He voted for him because he promised economic growth, something which he thinks is far more important to the average person than anything Hilary campaigned on. And he's probably right. He and my mother are also devout Catholics, so they of course voted against Hilary because of her views on abortion, among other issues that ran counter to their religion. But that's ironic, when a man like Donald Trump is in the picture, right?

          Despite being otherwise reasonable people, they doubt the existence of climate change. My father has told me he thinks the world is more durable than that. I keep meaning to show him studies, just to see if he'll listen to reason. I think what happened is that they've been Republican forever, so they always watched Fox News.

          Sorry, I'm rambling. My point is that there are people like my father everywhere, of varying degrees of intelligence. And if they're like my father, they hate admitting when they're wrong.

          I often get the feeling from liberals that they wish they could just make things better. That the world should be forced to be as it ought to be. But that's just not going to happen. Even if it did, it wouldn't end well. We still live in a democracy, a pseudo-one at least, with things like gerrymandering, but I think that before we 'kill them all' we need to try a little goddamn harder. Trump would not have won if the Democratic Party had had the balls to back Bernie. They are not doing nearly enough to combat Trump's rhetoric, or attack any of his many, many weaknesses. Literally days ago, he admitted that his son met with Russians for information on Hilary. I should be watching him get strung up by his shoelaces in a court!

          What I'm trying to say is that we need to go on the offensive, instead of always ceding the initiative. I hope I made sense, I post very rarely.

          1. demifiend
            Link Parent
            I agree regarding the need for the Democratic Party to take the offensive and start cracking skulls. The Trump administration has done more than enough to justify full-on obstructionism from...

            I agree regarding the need for the Democratic Party to take the offensive and start cracking skulls. The Trump administration has done more than enough to justify full-on obstructionism from Congressional Democrats and all-out efforts to drive Republicans out of office wherever possible, but that isn't what I'm seeing.

            2 votes
      2. [2]
        PraiseBeToScience
        Link Parent
        In my many years on the planet I see absolutely no evidence that there's a huge range of thought among Conservatives. From Buckly to Trump I see see the same racial animus, the same elitism. The...

        In my many years on the planet I see absolutely no evidence that there's a huge range of thought among Conservatives. From Buckly to Trump I see see the same racial animus, the same elitism. The only thing I see evidence for is a wide range of various arguments and buzzwords to describe essentially the same thing. It's not like leftist thought that has profound differences how the economy should be organized (market, socialist, mixed to varying degrees) of even if the state should exist or not including everything in between. Conservative thought all boils down to dogmatic faith in the market and protecting the current social hierarchies. Even anarcho_capitalism fits this mold.

        It's why I'm not shocked at all to see conservatives in huge percentages back Trump and welcome the current decent into fascism. Because it's all the same.

        Actual real diversity of thought is why it's near impossible to get those on the left to fall in line the way you see everyone on the right. Lack of true diversity is why seemingly diverse groups like "wall street", Evangelicals, Neo-Confederates, etc manage to form anything resembling a coherant party. In the end they all want the exact same thing, they just have different methods and messages to get there.

        Much like Fascists, modern US Conservatives have excelled really at one thing: constantly inventing new terms to sell the same thing when everyone picks up that the current terms are just the same shit different day.

        So no. Conservatives shouldn't get to walk away from Trump the same way they've walked away from Nixon, Ford, Bush Jr, or like they would with Reagan if this country ever stopped idiolizing a very flawed presidency.

        15 votes
        1. Tenar
          Link Parent
          is that not just a product of the US political climate? as in Republican = conservative and Democrat = liberal? Because here in the Netherlands at least the US Democratic party would be considered...

          The only thing I see evidence for is a wide range of various arguments and buzzwords to describe essentially the same thing. It's not like leftist thought that has profound differences how the economy should be organized (market, socialist, mixed to varying degrees) of even if the state should exist or not including everything in between. Conservative thought all boils down to dogmatic faith in the market and protecting the current social hierarchies. Even anarcho_capitalism fits this mold.

          is that not just a product of the US political climate? as in Republican = conservative and Democrat = liberal? Because here in the Netherlands at least the US Democratic party would be considered centrist at best, probably a bit right of it (imo at least).

          I agree with much else what you said though

          4 votes
    3. [2]
      GoingMerry
      Link Parent
      I do think you could have done better. I also think that we all have bad moments, and in the ideal case, someone would have asked you to clarify your thoughts. Maybe a "clarification plz" comment...

      I do think you could have done better. I also think that we all have bad moments, and in the ideal case, someone would have asked you to clarify your thoughts.

      Maybe a "clarification plz" comment tag would be useful?

      7 votes
      1. demifiend
        Link Parent
        Fair enough.

        I do think you could have done better. I also think that we all have bad moments, and in the ideal case, someone would have asked you to clarify your thoughts.

        Fair enough.

        4 votes
    4. [4]
      Fiestaman
      Link Parent
      Outrage culture is a double-edged sword. Eventually, it will get someone you like.

      Outrage culture is a double-edged sword. Eventually, it will get someone you like.

      4 votes
      1. [3]
        demifiend
        Link Parent
        Are you absolutely sure you want to talk about right-wing outrage culture and the harm it has done in the United States?

        Are you absolutely sure you want to talk about right-wing outrage culture and the harm it has done in the United States?

        6 votes
        1. [2]
          Fiestaman
          Link Parent
          I have no doubt it has done lots of harm. But the fact is that just as many people on the left have enabled a culture where an off-the-cuff statement made years ago can destroy careers, for...

          I have no doubt it has done lots of harm. But the fact is that just as many people on the left have enabled a culture where an off-the-cuff statement made years ago can destroy careers, for example Quinn Norton's. It's hypocritical to support outrage culture only when it takes down the other tribe's guy and decry it when it takes down your tribe's guy.

          3 votes
          1. demifiend
            Link Parent
            First off, there is no such thing as "the left". We aren't monolithic. We don't have authoritarian leaders browbeating everybody into pushing a particular program, which is one reason why...

            First off, there is no such thing as "the left". We aren't monolithic. We don't have authoritarian leaders browbeating everybody into pushing a particular program, which is one reason why Democrats tend to get their asses kicked in elections. The leftists who wish we had such leaders tend to get shouted down as "tankies".

            Second, outrage culture from the left might destroy assholes' careers, but outrage culture from the right has gotten people killed. Left-wing outrage doesn't translate into domestic terrorism the way right-wing outrage does.

            9 votes
    5. [4]
      Comment removed by site admin
      Link Parent
      1. [2]
        demifiend
        Link Parent
        I can. Reddit is basically 4chan with user accounts.

        I still cant believe how much hate Ellen Pao had because she removed a couple hateful subs from Reddit and filed a discrimination lawsuit against her former employer.

        I can. Reddit is basically 4chan with user accounts.

        13 votes
        1. Tenar
          Link Parent
          I could write a lot about this but I'll keep it brief: 4chan has this big scary reputation but your comment is spot on. I lurk a bunch on 4chan (some boards are still the best source for...

          I could write a lot about this but I'll keep it brief: 4chan has this big scary reputation but your comment is spot on. I lurk a bunch on 4chan (some boards are still the best source for semi-centralized info anywhere on the internet), and the behaviour in general is not worse at all than reddit. In fact, there might be three categories of bad (at least what they're most infamous for) found there: child porn, racism (and other *isms), and personal attacks.

          and reddit has all of those, plus since there's usernames you can make personal attacks which helps the last two issues.

          2 votes
      2. shooks
        Link Parent
        reddit has a consistent trend of mobilizing to target and 'knock down a peg' any woman or minority that manages any sort of success or is in the spotlight, politics aside.

        reddit has a consistent trend of mobilizing to target and 'knock down a peg' any woman or minority that manages any sort of success or is in the spotlight, politics aside.

        4 votes
  2. [2]
    EightRoundsRapid
    Link
    I don't see locking a post as shameful at all. What's shameful is that it was necessary.

    I don't see locking a post as shameful at all.

    What's shameful is that it was necessary.

    39 votes
    1. TeaBagTwat
      (edited )
      Link Parent
      I totally agree with you, reading over what I wrote I didn't explain it well, It's shameful that comments were made which led it to being Shameful. That's why I was saying I don't blame Deimos for...

      I totally agree with you, reading over what I wrote I didn't explain it well, It's shameful that comments were made which led it to being Shameful. That's why I was saying I don't blame Deimos for it being locked, he did what he had to do.

      7 votes
  3. [8]
    Comment deleted by author
    Link
    1. Flashynuff
      Link Parent
      Thanks for linking this again -- I think it's worth reminding everyone to chill. Everyone who's here at this point cares about the site and there's no need to make doomsday predictions every time...

      Thanks for linking this again -- I think it's worth reminding everyone to chill. Everyone who's here at this point cares about the site and there's no need to make doomsday predictions every time we hit a bump.

      17 votes
    2. EightRoundsRapid
      Link Parent
      Ha. That thread was the first thing that sprang to mind when I saw this post.

      Ha. That thread was the first thing that sprang to mind when I saw this post.

      12 votes
    3. TeaBagTwat
      Link Parent
      That's a good point, maybe I'm just being overly paranoid. I don't know, just though I should get my opinion across. Perhaps I should be less pedantic in the future otherwise it creates a more...

      That's a good point, maybe I'm just being overly paranoid. I don't know, just though I should get my opinion across. Perhaps I should be less pedantic in the future otherwise it creates a more hostile environment.

      4 votes
    4. [5]
      Comment removed by site admin
      Link Parent
      1. [4]
        Parliament
        Link Parent
        I didn't even think the locked thread was that bad, but maybe my perception is skewed from moderating on reddit for years and years. There was some immaturity and heated exchanges, just not what...

        I didn't even think the locked thread was that bad, but maybe my perception is skewed from moderating on reddit for years and years. There was some immaturity and heated exchanges, just not what I've come to expect in most discussion forums (e.g. slurs, personal attacks, stalking/harassment, etc.). Upon rereading the thread, I see a lot of frustration borne out of the current political situation being channeled into comments there in the context of the very polarizing topic of race. The nature of those exchanges are a natural (and IMO, acceptable) result of such sensitive topics. I hope we keep having these meta discussions so the community can weigh in on threads entering vitriolic territory - I don't believe we came close to reaching that point in this example though.

        13 votes
        1. JayJay
          Link Parent
          I'm also confused, unless posts were removed I don't see that thread having much controversial discussion. If that was a heated political discussion then I am not sure how tilde is going to handle...

          I'm also confused, unless posts were removed I don't see that thread having much controversial discussion. If that was a heated political discussion then I am not sure how tilde is going to handle any controversial subjects or disagreements between users. I think the tilde locking a thread feature should at least require a moderator explanation or there should be some kind of public moderator log built into the system. I admit I don't know much about planned features/systems on Tilde though.

          6 votes
        2. [3]
          Comment removed by site admin
          Link Parent
          1. [2]
            hightrix
            Link Parent
            Agreed. This would have been a great thread on ~talk discussing the double standard shown by the hiring of a racist to the NY Times editoral board.

            Agreed. This would have been a great thread on ~talk discussing the double standard shown by the hiring of a racist to the NY Times editoral board.

            3 votes
            1. [2]
              Comment removed by site admin
              Link Parent
              1. hightrix
                Link Parent
                And I think those calling this a right-wing attack campaign are pushing a very dangerous double standard. We simply disagree on this topic and that's fine. I'm not a right winger, at all, and when...

                And I think those calling this a right-wing attack campaign are pushing a very dangerous double standard.

                We simply disagree on this topic and that's fine. I'm not a right winger, at all, and when I read those tweets, I see racism.

                If we are going to hold people accountable for what they say on social media, like Roseanne Bar or Quinn Norton, then we should apply the same standard regardless of the target.

                6 votes
  4. [7]
    SourceContribute
    Link
    All communities start out like this. The issue is how to keep them that way. We need incentives, disincentives, checks and balances to ensure discussions can avoid sweeping statements and...

    Yet I view Tildes as a place of openness and willingness to debate that doesn't resort to generalisations and sweeping statements. This is the kind of post that would be great for Tildes as it would allow discussion that wasn't a complete mess, it's a rare place where you are able to talk about such topics that are debates not fights.

    All communities start out like this. The issue is how to keep them that way. We need incentives, disincentives, checks and balances to ensure discussions can avoid sweeping statements and generalizations and general unpleasantness.

    Here's what I would like to know (in order of importance):

    1. what is the reason for locking the topic? as a non-profit benefiting the users it's necessary to explain these things (whether it's a generic "this violates the community guidelines" or more specific explanation, it needs to be accessible to Tildes users).
    2. what is the mechanism for unlocking a topic?
    3. can bots, similar to Wikipedia bots, be created that detect potential malicious tagging or commenting?
    4. what's the velocity of comment posting on that thread?
    5. were any comments removed?
    6. were any users banned (or shadow-banned)?
    17 votes
    1. [2]
      Deimos
      Link Parent
      Honestly, it wasn't really some kind of major policy decision or anything. I hadn't paid attention to the thread earlier, and clicked into it quickly to take a quick look while I was on my phone,...
      1. what is the reason for locking the topic?

      Honestly, it wasn't really some kind of major policy decision or anything. I hadn't paid attention to the thread earlier, and clicked into it quickly to take a quick look while I was on my phone, in bed and about to go to sleep. I read about 30 comments of the same tired "but what does 'racism' mean?" argument that happens in basically every single post about a similar topic, on every single site.

      It wasn't awful or anything, but it wasn't anything like what I'd consider a "high-quality discussion", and I figured it had a pretty good chance of turning significantly worse before I was back around the next day, so I just decided to lock it. I probably should have posted a reason, but the thread already hadn't had any comments in a few hours so I didn't really want to bump it back to the top and hoped it would just fade away. Obviously that didn't really work out.

      Should I even have locked it? Maybe not, it was just a judgment call.

      1. what is the mechanism for unlocking a topic?

      I click the "Unlock" button.

      1. can bots, similar to Wikipedia bots, be created that detect potential malicious tagging or commenting?

      In theory, sure. There's no formal API yet though, so I doubt anyone would want to do it yet.

      1. were any comments removed?

      No, all removed comments leave a marker with "Removed by site admin". (So you can see the comment velocity if you want to know it, they're all there)

      1. were any users banned (or shadow-banned)?

      No, like I said, the conversation wasn't even really that bad. It just also wasn't good. There's no functionality for shadow-banning, if I ban someone they're completely locked out of the site.

      16 votes
      1. SourceContribute
        Link Parent
        Perhaps as a nonprofit with users interests at heart we can take a different route. Maybe having a quick way of posting the reason for a lock and potentially a page that lists locked topics and...

        It wasn't awful or anything, but it wasn't anything like what I'd consider a "high-quality discussion", and I figured it had a pretty good chance of turning significantly worse before I was back around the next day, so I just decided to lock it. I probably should have posted a reason, but the thread already hadn't had any comments in a few hours so I didn't really want to bump it back to the top and hoped it would just fade away. Obviously that didn't really work out.

        Should I even have locked it? Maybe not, it was just a judgment call.

        Perhaps as a nonprofit with users interests at heart we can take a different route. Maybe having a quick way of posting the reason for a lock and potentially a page that lists locked topics and why they were locked?

        Documenting the answers to the questions above as part of the FAQ or Mechanics might help in the future.

        For a larger nonprofit I'd say have a committee/working group that revisits topic locks every few months and examines the pros/cons in the situation and posts them openly along with any further recommendations and guidelines for future topic locking.

        Basically what I'm saying is that a little more transparency might be in order, we're at around 115 comments in this topic, feels like it should be just a few instead.

        edit: also thank you for taking the time to answer the above questions clearly! Huge difference compared to reddit!

        3 votes
    2. [4]
      Comment deleted by author
      Link Parent
      1. TeaBagTwat
        Link Parent
        I was unaware of this, that's good. I also very heavily agree with all those points.

        I was unaware of this, that's good. I also very heavily agree with all those points.

        1 vote
      2. [3]
        Comment removed by site admin
        Link Parent
        1. [3]
          Comment deleted by author
          Link Parent
          1. [3]
            Comment removed by site admin
            Link Parent
            1. [2]
              Comment deleted by author
              Link Parent
              1. unknown user
                Link Parent
                IIRC Deimos confirmed this in a thread a few days ago, I'll see if I can find it. Edit: hmm, ok, not really quite confirming it but he does want it to be clear when comments have been removed:...

                IIRC Deimos confirmed this in a thread a few days ago, I'll see if I can find it.

                Edit: hmm, ok, not really quite confirming it but he does want it to be clear when comments have been removed: https://tildes.net/~tildes/3zm/how_does_the_comment_removing_work#comment-168q

                4 votes
            2. Deimos
              Link Parent
              Yes, removed comments with no replies will still show.

              Yes, removed comments with no replies will still show.

              3 votes
    3. [2]
      Comment removed by site admin
      Link Parent
      1. SourceContribute
        Link Parent
        Yes, it's a nonprofit: Being able to explain the inner workings and show some transparency is precisely why it's a nonprofit. So they can be more easily held accountable to users in contrast to...

        Do you think it is really necessary

        Yes, it's a nonprofit:

        Tildes is a non-profit site that respects its users and prioritizes quality content

        Being able to explain the inner workings and show some transparency is precisely why it's a nonprofit. So they can be more easily held accountable to users in contrast to Reddit and other sites where topic locking could be a profit-motivated action intended to appease certain venture capitalists or advertisers.

        sustainable

        It can be; FAQ with the usual reasons why a topic is locked and some generic options whenever the topic does get locked. Appointing a committee to revisit and examine various topic locks and report the pros/cons and make a few recommendations for the future is a more intensive task in terms of people and time but it would move the burden away from the core devs/organizers of Tildes on to a committee who's only mission to figure out whether the topic locks in particular cases made sense.

        2 votes
  5. [2]
    Flashynuff
    Link
    I agree -- I don't like seeing low-effort content. The comment you quoted is indeed low-effort, and I would have liked to see more of an explanation of the thought process behind that. It would...

    It feels there's a growing minority of Reddit like comments.

    I agree -- I don't like seeing low-effort content. The comment you quoted is indeed low-effort, and I would have liked to see more of an explanation of the thought process behind that. It would have been fantastic if someone in that thread had helped others understand the intricacies of individual vs. institutional racism, as I saw a lot of folks sticking with a strict dictionary definition that doesn't fully address the nuances of the situation. I wish I could have been that person, unfortunately I did not have time yesterday to fully commit to such an in-depth conversation.

    this is the kind of post that would be great for Tildes as it would allow discussion that wasn't a complete mess, it's a rare place where you are able to talk about such topics that are debates not fights.

    I don't think this was a good post at all -- it only had the link, with absolutely no context or discussion prompts. I think it's important to recognize the difference between posting a controversial link and saying "this is good for discussion!" and posting a controversial link and giving additional context and things to talk about. If there's only the link, people will naturally go directly for the low-hanging fruit. While it's always the responsibility of the commenter to actually put in some effort, I believe it is also on the poster to submit responsibly and help ensure discussions are guided towards a constructive end. Locking the post was the right move -- a discussion like that deserves to happen in its own thread, divorced from the shit-slinging of modern politics.

    call them out on it for being un-tildes

    This needs to be done carefully. If we just say something like 'That's low effort, don't post that, you're not a good member of tildes' to every short comment -- well, that is also low effort, and only adds noise and hostility to the discussion. Instead, try to ask polite and respectful questions about why the user thinks that way. Try to get them to explain their viewpoint further. Who knows, maybe you'll learn something you didn't know about another perspective!

    I think locked posts should be clearly shown why they are locked

    I think this would probably be a good thing, though I would like to avoid the trend with Reddit where people assume that locking posts is a form of censorship on the part of the moderators, and start discussions over whether or not the post should have been locked. We need to trust that the moderators (in this case, Deimos) aren't out to get anyone and are just trying to maintain a standard of quality on the site.

    16 votes
    1. TeaBagTwat
      Link Parent
      You raise some good points, especially with the point of calling people out, otherwise it creates a police state like situation where people don't comment out of fear for stepping out of line. I...

      You raise some good points, especially with the point of calling people out, otherwise it creates a police state like situation where people don't comment out of fear for stepping out of line.
      I also think trust in moderation is crucial, I do still think Deimos did what he had to do.

      3 votes
  6. [3]
    Catt
    Link
    I did see this post, and am a little sad I didn't get a chance to participate before it was locked. However, I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing. The community is still quite small, and...

    I did see this post, and am a little sad I didn't get a chance to participate before it was locked. However, I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing. The community is still quite small, and sometimes people just need a reminder on its boundaries.

    With the low-effort comment you quoted specifically, I'm biased because I've seen the user around, but I actually didn't think it was all that bad. Agreed, it really didn't add anything, but I don't think that should overshadow all the good comments and discussion that was actually generated.

    Others may disagree, but I also don't think it's crazy to repost it and attempt to discuss it again.

    11 votes
    1. [2]
      TeaBagTwat
      Link Parent
      Others have touched on it, for me personally I thought this comment best summed up the problems with the comments on that post, there were losts of other comments which I agreed with that I felt...

      Others have touched on it, for me personally I thought this comment best summed up the problems with the comments on that post, there were losts of other comments which I agreed with that I felt shouldn't of been posted.

      1 vote
      1. Catt
        Link Parent
        That's fair enough.

        That's fair enough.

        1 vote
  7. [2]
    TheJorro
    Link
    I don't think it's fair to respond to comments in a locked thread in a new thread. It's not discussing the problem with locking the thread, it's extending what was a slapfight into a new post.

    I don't think it's fair to respond to comments in a locked thread in a new thread. It's not discussing the problem with locking the thread, it's extending what was a slapfight into a new post.

    9 votes
    1. TeaBagTwat
      Link Parent
      That was not my intent, I'm aware it's difficult to avoid though.

      That was not my intent, I'm aware it's difficult to avoid though.

      1 vote
  8. [2]
    Neverland
    (edited )
    Link
    Thanks for bringing this up, I had no idea that it got locked. I think that I was the first to post a comment in that thread and I almost added a “oh boy, I hope we can keep this discussion civil”...

    Thanks for bringing this up, I had no idea that it got locked. I think that I was the first to post a comment in that thread and I almost added a “oh boy, I hope we can keep this discussion civil” part, but I decided that people of Tildes would already know to do that. It’s pretty disappointing that it got locked/had to get locked. Strictly from a user point of view, I really disliked locked threads on Reddit outside of subs like LegalAdvice.

    I often felt like a locked thread simply locked-in the insanity that was driving the mods crazy, without an opportunity for the community to organically correct it via thoughtful responses. I remember one thread on one of the history subs which started with a German citizen posting that he had found some Nazi artifacts on his property and wanted to know what they were, and what to do. It started out nice, but eventually actual pro-Nazi Germans were taunting this Jewish guy with “I have a swastika hanging in my living room, come by and I’ll show it to you sometime.”

    Right after that the thread got locked. I really wish it hadn’t been becuase the point at which it got locked, the Nazis were “winning” the conversation. I had a thoughtful response all typed up, hit submit, and error. From a strictly user POV, locked threads are bad UX, they admit defeat, and lock in the hate/vitriol or whatever else was the issue.

    If threads really must be locked sometimes, then I would like to know the reason why. I see others had said that it’s not scalable to explain why threads are locked, but maybe the mod who locked it could simply have a multiple choice of reasons on the lock form. That might keep mods from locking threads for personal reasons, and add transparency for the users.

    Again, I’m not a Reddit mod, and I am simply stating all of this from the normal user pov. I would much prefer the bad comments got deleted, and those users got a cool-off period in the thread where they could not comment.

    Edit: spelling, and I’d like to add that the Jewish guy who was being harrased and I had a DM conversation about the whole thing. I started with “sorry that happened to you” and in the end we both agreed that the Nazis had won and we were both really saddened. I never went to that sub again.

    8 votes
    1. TeaBagTwat
      Link Parent
      I profoundly agree with this, the general feeling seems to be negative around my post, I think I might be partly to blame for wording my reasoning poorly, maybe people just disagree which is ok....

      I profoundly agree with this, the general feeling seems to be negative around my post, I think I might be partly to blame for wording my reasoning poorly, maybe people just disagree which is ok.

      But this is one of my main points, locked post are a poor thing. I understand why they exist but felt like one should not of been used on that post. I also think it not only allows the morons which get the post locked to 'win' but it shows a lack of moderation.

      4 votes
  9. [2]
    IncreaseTheDosage
    Link
    Maybe a bit off-topic, but why is there a need to create some collective identity by calling stuff tildes-like or un-tildes-like? I've been seeing this a couple times already.

    Maybe a bit off-topic, but why is there a need to create some collective identity by calling stuff tildes-like or un-tildes-like? I've been seeing this a couple times already.

    6 votes
    1. TeaBagTwat
      Link Parent
      I think because it more easily explains peoples feelings towards posts. Tildes is created to hold more detailed discussions and try to stay away from low effort comments, the principle beliefs of...

      I think because it more easily explains peoples feelings towards posts. Tildes is created to hold more detailed discussions and try to stay away from low effort comments, the principle beliefs of Tildes are outlined in it's docs. So if something is against the principles of Tildes even if you agree with it you can let them know it is un-Tildes like.

      As with everything nowadays it is a buzzword which easily conveys a complicated issue.

      3 votes
  10. [7]
    starchturrets
    Link
    That should be handled by comment tagging+the upcoming reputation system. User makes joke. Gets tagged as joke, reputation goes down. Deimos just needs to figure out how to prevent abuse of the...

    More crucially I think we need to keep an eye on users that post low quality comment and call them out for veing un-tildes like.

    That should be handled by comment tagging+the upcoming reputation system. User makes joke. Gets tagged as joke, reputation goes down. Deimos just needs to figure out how to prevent abuse of the joke tag. (Tildes's first ban was someone tagging all of @mumberthrax's comments as trolling and noise.)

    5 votes
    1. [6]
      EightRoundsRapid
      Link Parent
      I don't think making a joke, if it's relevant, funny, and appropriate, is a bad thing. All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy.

      I don't think making a joke, if it's relevant, funny, and appropriate, is a bad thing. All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy.

      12 votes
      1. [3]
        RapidEyeMovement
        Link Parent
        Jokes are also be used to derail a conversation

        Jokes are also be used to derail a conversation

        4 votes
        1. [2]
          EightRoundsRapid
          Link Parent
          Yes, definitely. Which is why they need to relevant, appropriate and funny. Just dropping weak jokes in thread is not something I'd want to encourage.

          Yes, definitely. Which is why they need to relevant, appropriate and funny. Just dropping weak jokes in thread is not something I'd want to encourage.

          7 votes
          1. RapidEyeMovement
            Link Parent
            I really think that is mischaracterizing how any humor can be used to side track a conversation. On Reddit a funny comment will drown out a serious conversation because it is easy to digest and...

            I really think that is mischaracterizing how any humor can be used to side track a conversation. On Reddit a funny comment will drown out a serious conversation because it is easy to digest and upvote, a meme or a meme chain can totally kill a normal conversation thread because it is a preprocessed joke that is easy for people to participate in and up-vote.

            Maybe it wont be as bad on Tildes because here we are not hiding low up-voted comments in large threads. But it can still be used to change the course of the dialogue, for good or bad.

            4 votes
      2. [2]
        lmn
        Link Parent
        I'm a bit afraid of jokes as a slippery slope. So many reddit threads and comments are jokes. If I had to choose between too many and too few I'd favor fewer.

        I'm a bit afraid of jokes as a slippery slope. So many reddit threads and comments are jokes. If I had to choose between too many and too few I'd favor fewer.

        3 votes
        1. EightRoundsRapid
          Link Parent
          I'm not advocating for joke threads by the truckload, or even at all. I'm saying that a well placed bit of humour is not a bad thing. The last thing I want is for this site to be a dry, dusty self...

          I'm not advocating for joke threads by the truckload, or even at all.

          I'm saying that a well placed bit of humour is not a bad thing.

          The last thing I want is for this site to be a dry, dusty self important place where no one is allowed to use humour.

          Do I want pun threads? No

          Do I want threads full of overdone, unfunny jokes? No

          Do I want it to be okay to use humour when it's relevant? Yes.

          5 votes
  11. [7]
    Comment deleted by author
    Link
    1. [2]
      TeaBagTwat
      Link Parent
      I myself am OK with moderation, in fact I actively want it. I'm happy with specific comments being removed if they are deliberately harmful, threatening, or offensive but locking a post is a lazy...

      I myself am OK with moderation, in fact I actively want it. I'm happy with specific comments being removed if they are deliberately harmful, threatening, or offensive but locking a post is a lazy way to deal with the problem and stop discussion due to a select few. Currently though it's not lazy-ness we only have one admin, I understand the reasoning at the current period in time. I mentioned this in another comment:

      I personally believe you shouldn't be able to stop discussion by having people spam hate and poor comments which drive a post to be locked, moderation of a site should grow with the user base to keep discussion open at all times. I touched upon his here:

      Although I think this is a issue I can understand why this happened in the early days of Tildes, it's still being developed on and I get the vibe he enjoys creating a community and a place for discussion not moderating and removing comments. Later on I do not expect or want this to happen.

      6 votes
      1. [2]
        Comment deleted by author
        Link Parent
        1. TeaBagTwat
          Link Parent
          Agreed. This is by no means meant to be a attack on Deimos, love what he's done. Just feel e need to be cautious in the future as numbers grow, it's kind of a really fascinating social experiment.

          Agreed. This is by no means meant to be a attack on Deimos, love what he's done. Just feel e need to be cautious in the future as numbers grow, it's kind of a really fascinating social experiment.

          3 votes
    2. [4]
      Diet_Coke
      Link Parent
      The first lock ever was a post I made suggesting Tildes recruitment efforts intentionally target minorities who may be underrepresented in Reddit and HN. That post...did not go great.

      The first lock ever was a post I made suggesting Tildes recruitment efforts intentionally target minorities who may be underrepresented in Reddit and HN. That post...did not go great.

      4 votes
      1. [2]
        Comment removed by site admin
        Link Parent
        1. Diet_Coke
          Link Parent
          I was gratified to see how it went the second time around. It shows that what we're doing is working.

          I was gratified to see how it went the second time around. It shows that what we're doing is working.

          4 votes
  12. NubWizard
    Link
    The sad thing is that I was working on a somewhat origin comment from last night to this morning and when I finished and tried to submit, I received an error. I didn't think the thread needed to...

    The sad thing is that I was working on a somewhat origin comment from last night to this morning and when I finished and tried to submit, I received an error.

    I didn't think the thread needed to be locked but I can understand why it was. The situation is a hot button issue that seems to be inviting both sides of the spectrum across the web.

    The comment I was going to make about it stemmed around d this controversy and the idea that the moral and ethical foundations that are built around each side are so detached from the actions that you ended up having someone who is against rascism, co-opting rascism to contribute to this culture we have of wanting/needing to 'own' a dissenter.

    I think we could all benefit from examining our beliefs and why we feel the way we do about it while learning about integrity, decency, human rights, etc.. and then strive to live those foundations out in everything we do instead of when it's convenient or completely abandoning that foundation when you are tested on it.

    From the newly hired NY Times writer to the every day comment contributor, act with purpose and understanding instead of living in a moment to moment reactionary mindset.

    4 votes
  13. [2]
    LordManley
    Link
    I missed that entirely.

    I missed that entirely.

    3 votes
    1. ruspaceni
      Link Parent
      Likewise. The thread wasn't too old when I read it so I had no idea what it turned into. But I'm very glad threads like this pop up after the fact and hope that they'll continue to do so. Locking...

      Likewise.

      The thread wasn't too old when I read it so I had no idea what it turned into. But I'm very glad threads like this pop up after the fact and hope that they'll continue to do so. Locking threads is a chance to start fresh, and reading this new thread everyone seems quite reasonable and well intentioned.

      1 vote
  14. RespectMyAuthoriteh
    Link
    Wow, that's really disappointing. I don't think posts here should be locked just because an admin doesn't happen to like the subject or some of the comments. If an individual comment violates the...

    Wow, that's really disappointing. I don't think posts here should be locked just because an admin doesn't happen to like the subject or some of the comments. If an individual comment violates the site rules already in place, then that comment can be removed. I regularly see posts and comments on here that I don't like or find annoying, and you know what I do? I close the tab and move on to the next post.

    1 vote
  15. [9]
    Comment removed by site admin
    Link
    1. [6]
      SourceContribute
      Link Parent
      This.

      I think that a lot of folks need consider the idea of punching up vs. punching down when looking at things like this.

      This.

      19 votes
      1. [4]
        vakieh
        Link Parent
        Punching up vs punching down is a terrible argument, in the same boat as 'racism = prejudice + power'. The same way someone who is small punching a large person can and should be charged with...

        Punching up vs punching down is a terrible argument, in the same boat as 'racism = prejudice + power'. The same way someone who is small punching a large person can and should be charged with assault, someone with less power mouthing off racist or sexist slurs against someone in a position of greater power should be condemned the same as the other direction. Racism is bad. Not some racism, ALL racism. And a little bit of racism should be condemned the same as a big bit of racism, or sexism, or homophobia, or whatever. There's no point playing oppression olympics or whatever people try to do, or 'make it even', the minority loses that battle every time.

        That's not to say I think she should be penalised for saying the things she did (at the time, who knows, but that's not the circumstances) - but I think that for the same reason I think James Gunn shouldn't be penalised, not for any racial 'underdog' reason.

        Consider this: a person in a minority cops abuse from a few people who happen to be white. They say 'cancelwhitepeople'. That is the same reaction as a cop who sees people who happen to be in a minority continuously committing violent crimes, and saying 'people of this race are violent criminals'. And Sarah Jeong knows this and admitted it. Generalisations based on race are racist, and racism is bad. It has no excuse, and it should get no tolerance, no matter the source.

        15 votes
        1. [4]
          Comment deleted by author
          Link Parent
          1. Catt
            Link Parent
            This is something that's just so hard to explain. I'm a visible minority and a woman. I'm also pretty solidly middle class, so I can't pretend these are issues I fight daily, but they're always...

            Being on the end of genuine hatred and acrimony is exhausting, and it’s a daily thing for us. If not directly, then seeing us abused in the news, or hearing people “debate” our right to exist, or seeing yet another one of us get murdered without any repercussions.

            This is something that's just so hard to explain. I'm a visible minority and a woman. I'm also pretty solidly middle class, so I can't pretend these are issues I fight daily, but they're always there. They're little paper cuts that usually you can ignore, but every now and then you get one on your knuckle and it just frustrates you so much you have to respond.

            9 votes
          2. lmn
            Link Parent
            There's a psychological phenomenon where people impute negative emotions to others and positive emotions to themselves as a way to condemn in others what they excuse in themselves. I think that's...

            There's a psychological phenomenon where people impute negative emotions to others and positive emotions to themselves as a way to condemn in others what they excuse in themselves. I think that's what's happening with your comment.

            If someone else generalizes negatively about the natural characteristics of people that's because of oppression, power, malevolence, racism etc. If you do it, it's humor to release pressure.

            The problem with this is that you don't know the motivations of others and others don't know your motives. Jeong was getting racist messages so she decides to mirror the racist rhetoric she receives. To her, it's justified, but to her readers who don't know her motivations it reads just like any other racist insult.

            You may see someone writing something transphobic and interpret it as hateful. The author may have a completely different understanding of the underlying motive - it's a joke, satire, a genuine misunderstanding, some belief based on something you hadn't considered, etc.

            If you want to stop insulting people based on race, gender, sexuality, etc, then you should stop insulting people based on race, gender, sexuality, etc - even if you have some motivation that you think makes it okay for you to do it but wrong for others.

            8 votes
          3. Farun
            Link Parent
            There is a difference between a snide joke and the kind of stuff she and others wrote and still regularly write. I personally believe that no topic should be excluded from humor and satire, but...

            There is a difference between a snide joke and the kind of stuff she and others wrote and still regularly write. I personally believe that no topic should be excluded from humor and satire, but the point of jokes is to evoke a positive emotion. When your "joke" is just a thinly veiled expression of a negative emotion, be it hate or fear or something else, that gets lost and it is neither funny nor healthy for you or others.

            It's hard to truly explain the difference, but look at standup comedy for another example. There are lots of comedians who make pretty dark jokes about race relations, regardless of their own race. And it works, because they turn their own negative experiences and emotions into something good, for themselves and others.

            4 votes
      2. [2]
        Comment removed by site admin
        Link Parent
        1. SourceContribute
          Link Parent
          I wanted to highlight that one part out of the wall of text. I was going to say some more words but I had to get off the bus at that point and get to work. It was definitely a low-effort comment,...

          I wanted to highlight that one part out of the wall of text. I was going to say some more words but I had to get off the bus at that point and get to work. It was definitely a low-effort comment, shouldn't have gotten any votes at all....

          5 votes
    2. Kraetos
      Link Parent
      Given how many people in that thread fell right into the alt-right rhetoric trap, Deimos did us all a favor locking it. What an embarrassment.

      Given how many people in that thread fell right into the alt-right rhetoric trap, Deimos did us all a favor locking it. What an embarrassment.

      8 votes
    3. TeaBagTwat
      (edited )
      Link Parent
      Don't get me wrong that comment is also low effort, I think that doesn't belong on Tildes either. I picked the specific comment I did because I frequently see comments like that on reddit. I do...

      Don't get me wrong that comment is also low effort, I think that doesn't belong on Tildes either. I picked the specific comment I did because I frequently see comments like that on reddit.

      I do stand by the idea that a post should rarely be locked. Unless you are getting a mass influx of horrendously offensive comments you should just moderate comments that are there. I did say myself:

      Now, I must confess I am unaware of any comments being removed and I must assume there must of been to lead to the post becoming locked which would help be understand as to why it happened

      I personally believe you shouldn't be able to stop discussion by having people spam hate and poor comments which drive a post to be locked, moderation of a site should grow with the user base to keep discussion open at all times. I touched upon his here:

      Although I think this is a issue I can understand why this happened in the early days of Tildes, it's still being developed on and I get the vibe he enjoys creating a community and a place for discussion not moderating and removing comments. Later on I do not expect or want this to happen.

      I'm aware currently it's one person against a whole community so I'm not too concerned currently, but I feel this shouldn't happen later on or many controversial posts which I would love to see two sides of the debate on will just be silenced and locked


      I can see her justification and context is key as usual with all these things but I still stand by the stance that it's racist, I don't however feel it had quite the same standing as just pure hate speech, I can see as to why she said it and take a similar stance that NY Times took, I don't think the comments we're right nor do I agree to them but she shouldn't suffer/not get employed because of them as she was doing in parody.

      5 votes
  16. [18]
    Comment removed by site admin
    Link
    1. [4]
      EightRoundsRapid
      Link Parent
      Hang on there. "Twat" just means idiot, or fool. Not all of us live in the US, so projecting your norms onto those of us who don't live there won't wash.

      Hang on there. "Twat" just means idiot, or fool. Not all of us live in the US, so projecting your norms onto those of us who don't live there won't wash.

      16 votes
      1. [3]
        TeaBagTwat
        Link Parent
        Yeah that's exactly how I meant it, I made a comment further down explaining exactly that.

        Yeah that's exactly how I meant it, I made a comment further down explaining exactly that.

        I mean TeaBag as in actual tea bags used for tea, I love Tea. Also being British I use twat as a light hearted jab at someone as in 'hey you twat', which although as you said is slang for women's genitalia it's just a generic light hearted funny sounding word like calling someone a prick.

        9 votes
        1. [2]
          EightRoundsRapid
          Link Parent
          Most people wouldn't even consider it to be about genitialia.

          Most people wouldn't even consider it to be about genitialia.

          6 votes
          1. TeaBagTwat
            Link Parent
            Yeah I personally don't. I think it's just different cultures having different definitions and 'strengths' of swear words. I myself view the word 'cunt' as being rather strong and offensive with a...

            Yeah I personally don't. I think it's just different cultures having different definitions and 'strengths' of swear words. I myself view the word 'cunt' as being rather strong and offensive with a lot of weight behind it but to a Australian it's the equivalent of the word 'twat'.

            3 votes
    2. [12]
      SourceContribute
      Link Parent
      Two thoughts on this: the username shouldn't impact whether we see their opinion as something to be considered it is definitely a combination of two offensive terms and probably a name switch is...

      Two thoughts on this:

      1. the username shouldn't impact whether we see their opinion as something to be considered
      2. it is definitely a combination of two offensive terms and probably a name switch is in order to minimize the offensiveness (I would ban the whole username and each component part)
      7 votes
      1. mat
        Link Parent
        Totally agree with you on point one, but on the second point: don't forget that user in question is from the UK. "Teabag" isn't offensive in the UK. Teabag is, for far more people than the few...

        Totally agree with you on point one, but on the second point: don't forget that user in question is from the UK. "Teabag" isn't offensive in the UK. Teabag is, for far more people than the few gamers for whom it is a verb, an entirely innocuous noun - the only thing it's suggestive of is the possibility of a nice cup of tea.

        Twat is barely offensive here either. You'd almost get away with it on children's TV in the UK. It's around the same sort of level of offence as 'git' or 'wanker'.

        9 votes
      2. [7]
        EightRoundsRapid
        Link Parent
        It's not offensive at all though.

        It's not offensive at all though.

        6 votes
        1. [6]
          SourceContribute
          Link Parent
          I wouldn't be comfortable saying those terms in the US, Canada and quite a few other countries. So saying at all, I think is not quite right ;)

          I wouldn't be comfortable saying those terms in the US, Canada and quite a few other countries.

          So saying at all, I think is not quite right ;)

          2 votes
          1. [5]
            EightRoundsRapid
            Link Parent
            I would have no problem saying teabag in any country in the world. I buy teabags in the supermarket at least once a week. Twat is perhaps a little coarse for the office, but it's no big deal in...

            I would have no problem saying teabag in any country in the world. I buy teabags in the supermarket at least once a week.

            Twat is perhaps a little coarse for the office, but it's no big deal in regular, casual conversation with peers.

            5 votes
            1. [3]
              SourceContribute
              Link Parent
              This is why I made point #1. Their opinion is valid, it's still worthwhile to discuss things with them :)

              This is why I made point #1. Their opinion is valid, it's still worthwhile to discuss things with them :)

              2 votes
              1. [2]
                EightRoundsRapid
                Link Parent
                Yeah, I may be overreacting slightly, but this is one of my pet peeves. I really get overly and unnecessarily annoyed by people expecting a global userbase to stick to their local norms. It's...

                Yeah, I may be overreacting slightly, but this is one of my pet peeves. I really get overly and unnecessarily annoyed by people expecting a global userbase to stick to their local norms.

                It's something that has bugged me for many many years.

                6 votes
                1. SourceContribute
                  Link Parent
                  Yeah it's totalitarian a bit to be expect others to stick to certain norms.

                  I really get overly and unnecessarily annoyed by people expecting a global userbase to stick to their local norms.

                  Yeah it's totalitarian a bit to be expect others to stick to certain norms.

            2. [2]
              Comment removed by site admin
              Link Parent
              1. EightRoundsRapid
                Link Parent
                I know nothing about its use gaming circles. For me it's just something that makes a nice hot drink.

                I know nothing about its use gaming circles. For me it's just something that makes a nice hot drink.

                3 votes
      3. [4]
        Comment removed by site admin
        Link Parent
        1. EightRoundsRapid
          Link Parent
          Saying "twat" is in absolutely no way comparable to saying "cunt" though. Not even vaguely close.

          Saying "twat" is in absolutely no way comparable to saying "cunt" though. Not even vaguely close.

          6 votes
        2. DanBC
          Link Parent
          I'm English. Cunt can be a term of affection. "oi cunty-bollocks, pass me that screwdriver". Please stop projecting your cultural norms.

          I'm English. Cunt can be a term of affection. "oi cunty-bollocks, pass me that screwdriver".

          Please stop projecting your cultural norms.

          2 votes
        3. SourceContribute
          Link Parent
          I'd agree with that, it's the little things that make the environment better ;)

          In my time modding on reddit, I will 100% ban anyone that uses a pejorative in their username

          I'd agree with that, it's the little things that make the environment better ;)

          1 vote
    3. TeaBagTwat
      Link Parent
      I personally feel that there is a significant difference between civility and high-level discourse. Sometimes for example swearing can help show the passion someone has in their argument, I don't...

      I personally feel that there is a significant difference between civility and high-level discourse. Sometimes for example swearing can help show the passion someone has in their argument, I don't really mind how people explain their points or beliefs or what language they use.

      Also I mean TeaBag as in actual tea bags used for tea, I love Tea. Also being British I use twat as a light hearted jab at someone as in 'hey you twat', which although as you said is slang for women's genitalia it's just a generic light hearted funny sounding word like calling someone a prick.

      3 votes