20 votes

Can we get ~Reading?

I'd like to talk about books and fiction.

26 comments

  1. [26]
    cfabbro
    Link
    We were thinking of using ~lit for literature or ~books (reading and writing) but yes this is coming eventually and it's one of the most requested groups. However on reddit in /r/books the quality...

    We were thinking of using ~lit for literature or ~books (reading and writing) but yes this is coming eventually and it's one of the most requested groups. However on reddit in /r/books the quality is tenuous at best so we just need to be careful where it goes here.

    We are also open to other name suggestions though. Ideally one that encompass a more more specific range of topics since just ~reading with no other context since that can apply to way too much.

    8 votes
    1. [11]
      ReAn
      Link Parent
      I would stray away from ~lit in favour of ~literature to avoid confusion, with a curated list of groups, we want to avoid crpytic names. ~lit can mean so many things

      I would stray away from ~lit in favour of ~literature to avoid confusion, with a curated list of groups, we want to avoid crpytic names. ~lit can mean so many things

      4 votes
      1. BuckeyeSundae
        Link Parent
        "Hey, bro. Did you see that new thread in ~lit?" "Yeah, DUDE. That thread was so ~lit." "Totally."

        "Hey, bro. Did you see that new thread in ~lit?"

        "Yeah, DUDE. That thread was so ~lit."

        "Totally."

        6 votes
      2. [9]
        cfabbro
        (edited )
        Link Parent
        We were actually considering allowing multiple ways to access the same groups. E.g. ~literature and ~lit going to the same top level group... ~literature.books.fantasy ~lit.books.fantasy same...

        We were actually considering allowing multiple ways to access the same groups. E.g. ~literature and ~lit going to the same top level group... ~literature.books.fantasy ~lit.books.fantasy same subgroup, etc... since typing literature over and over can get tedious. This isn't a concrete plan yet though, just the seed of an idea we have talked about.

        5 votes
        1. [2]
          Cleb
          Link Parent
          Really like this, I know there were some shortened subs on reddit that only existed with a single redirect link to the larger sub. (ex: /r/lol had a redirect to /r/leagueoflegends because people...

          Really like this, I know there were some shortened subs on reddit that only existed with a single redirect link to the larger sub. (ex: /r/lol had a redirect to /r/leagueoflegends because people would just get tired of typing the whole thing over and over)

          2 votes
          1. cfabbro
            (edited )
            Link Parent
            Yeah... because of that we have actually seriously considered allowing subgroups being accessible by their "common" shortened names so long as they don't overlap in the namespace. E.g....

            Yeah... because of that we have actually seriously considered allowing subgroups being accessible by their "common" shortened names so long as they don't overlap in the namespace.

            E.g. ~games.moba.leagueoflegends being accessible by just going to ~lol

            4 votes
        2. [6]
          flaque
          Link Parent
          It would be cool to see ~tildes become just ~.

          It would be cool to see ~tildes become just ~.

          1 vote
          1. [5]
            cfabbro
            Link Parent
            We tend to refer to the site as ~ so that might get confusing.

            We tend to refer to the site as ~ so that might get confusing.

            1 vote
            1. [4]
              flaque
              Link Parent
              True, but it seems odd that https://tildes.net/~ is a 404 right now.

              True, but it seems odd that https://tildes.net/~ is a 404 right now.

              1 vote
              1. [3]
                cfabbro
                Link Parent
                Good point, we should fix that.

                Good point, we should fix that.

                1. [2]
                  flaque
                  Link Parent
                  Should it just redirect to tildes.net?

                  Should it just redirect to tildes.net?

                  1 vote
                  1. cfabbro
                    Link Parent
                    That would be my take on it, yes. Anything is better than a 404 though. ;)

                    That would be my take on it, yes. Anything is better than a 404 though. ;)

    2. [13]
      BBBence1111
      Link Parent
      I called it ~reading because it's more general than ~books, as I assume a top level tilde should be. Putting poems or even webfiction or something called ~books might not be the best I think....

      I called it ~reading because it's more general than ~books, as I assume a top level tilde should be. Putting poems or even webfiction or something called ~books might not be the best I think.

      ~literature would be fine but personally I prefer ~reading, mostly because school experience where the two have almost nothing to do with each other.

      3 votes
      1. [12]
        cfabbro
        Link Parent
        The problem with calling it ~reading IMO is that we would likely also need a ~writing since they are generally assumed to be mutually exclusive whereas in ~literature they both are included.

        The problem with calling it ~reading IMO is that we would likely also need a ~writing since they are generally assumed to be mutually exclusive whereas in ~literature they both are included.

        1 vote
        1. [7]
          iiv
          Link Parent
          A bit late to the discussion, but shouldn't ~writing go under ~creative? I feel like "literature" is too narrow, my first thought is that literature is a genre of books.

          A bit late to the discussion, but shouldn't ~writing go under ~creative? I feel like "literature" is too narrow, my first thought is that literature is a genre of books.

          4 votes
          1. [3]
            cfabbro
            (edited )
            Link Parent
            Taxonomy is a difficult thing that also has to be balanced against usability when dealing with group hierarchies, IMO, otherwise you wind up with incredibly deep structures that lose a great deal...

            Taxonomy is a difficult thing that also has to be balanced against usability when dealing with group hierarchies, IMO, otherwise you wind up with incredibly deep structures that lose a great deal of their usefulness for group discovery and navigation (which is their primary purpose on ~). Rigid taxonomy would dictate we have everything under ~tildes, e.g ~tildes.official, ~tildes.groups.science.computerscience, etc. But that is a PITA. ;)

            So instead we’re going with a less rigid top-level structure, in large part based on user demand in particular interests and usability, first and foremost. Hence ~sports being top-level despite that perhaps fitting best under ~recreation.sports, just as creative could fit under that as well. As the hierarchy develops it will most likely have to be restructured ever so often to maintain its usefulness since we don’t want the structure to be 20 levels deep like what happened to Usenet after enough time that all niche subjects were represented.

            So would ~writing fall under ~creative? Technically, some of it would, yes... although not all writing is creative, e.g. technical and non-fiction writing. But since we know writing as a subject is popular, especially on reddit, and hope it will be here as well, we think it potentially justifies its own top-level group for usability’s sake especially since it could potentially branch into a great many subgroups/niches.

            1 vote
            1. [2]
              iiv
              Link Parent
              Yeah, you have a good point, and I've thought myself that technically everything should go under ~tildes, and that that is probably not a good idea. And I forgot that there is technical writing,...

              Yeah, you have a good point, and I've thought myself that technically everything should go under ~tildes, and that that is probably not a good idea. And I forgot that there is technical writing, probably because /r/writing is strictly creative writing. Thanks for the reply!

              1 vote
              1. cfabbro
                Link Parent
                NP and keep the ideas, suggestions and questions coming... even if we don't ultimately use everyone's suggestions, the discussion itself is often valuable and helps us solidify our own positions...

                NP and keep the ideas, suggestions and questions coming... even if we don't ultimately use everyone's suggestions, the discussion itself is often valuable and helps us solidify our own positions on decisions. E.g. I had never written about the formal thought process behind our decisions with the hierarchy yet but your question prompted that. So thanks to you too. ;)

                1 vote
          2. [3]
            Catt
            Link Parent
            I think ∼lit is too narrow too. Graphic novels for one wouldn't really fit. Maybe we will need a ∼comics too

            I think ∼lit is too narrow too. Graphic novels for one wouldn't really fit. Maybe we will need a ∼comics too

            1 vote
            1. [2]
              iiv
              Link Parent
              Yes, I already think ~literature is too narrow. My personal favourite would be to have something like ~books with sub-tildes like ~books.literature and ~books.comics and so on.

              Yes, I already think ~literature is too narrow. My personal favourite would be to have something like ~books with sub-tildes like ~books.literature and ~books.comics and so on.

              1 vote
              1. Catt
                Link Parent
                That's my preference too.

                That's my preference too.

                1 vote
        2. Catt
          Link Parent
          To be fair, reading and writing are two different hobbies and activities.

          To be fair, reading and writing are two different hobbies and activities.

          2 votes
        3. [3]
          BBBence1111
          Link Parent
          Good point.Though I would assume that it would immediately split to ~literature.writing and ~literature.EverythingElse

          Good point.Though I would assume that it would immediately split to ~literature.writing and ~literature.EverythingElse

          1 vote
          1. [2]
            cfabbro
            Link Parent
            Yeah, it's tough to predict and predesign these things though. Ultimately I think @deimos will probably just go with ~books to start since that is the most popular of them all on reddit. However...

            Yeah, it's tough to predict and predesign these things though. Ultimately I think @deimos will probably just go with ~books to start since that is the most popular of them all on reddit. However if other related reading/writing groups get demanded we may merge them all into ~literature... or not... we're not quite sure yet... which is why we appreciate the suggestions and feedback! :P

            1. crius
              Link Parent
              I keep thinking that group should be dynamically created and eventually promoted to a "static" group with human/admin intervention when they reach a certain activity threshold. Becoming "static"...

              I keep thinking that group should be dynamically created and eventually promoted to a "static" group with human/admin intervention when they reach a certain activity threshold. Becoming "static" group would allow them to be listed in the group index or receive a custom styling if provided. This kind of things.

              This would allow communities to grow up spontaneously and work as a sort of super-tags while non-statics in terms of search and categorization.

              2 votes
    3. Boh
      Link Parent
      As a reader since childhood, I like /r/books. :( We don't talk high literature, but we discuss cool scifi and hype for the next Brandon Sanderson Maybe there should actually be both ~lit and...

      As a reader since childhood, I like /r/books. :(
      We don't talk high literature, but we discuss cool scifi and hype for the next Brandon Sanderson

      Maybe there should actually be both ~lit and ~books? probably too early for such a split, I guess.

      Edit: Or more like lit discussion as a sub tilde of books or something this stuff is confusing

      2 votes