I'd be willing to bet that the drop in mass transit riders is less about people driving in cars and more about people working from home who no longer have to commute into the city (I'm one of...
The MTA needs the additional riders. While subway usage has steadily increased since its pandemic-lows, weekday subway ridership is about 70% of 2019 levels, according to MTA data. And systemwide ridership may only reach 80% of pre-pandemic usage by the end of 2026, the transit agency estimates.
I'd be willing to bet that the drop in mass transit riders is less about people driving in cars and more about people working from home who no longer have to commute into the city (I'm one of them, thank God).
It's some of both, but probably more WFH if the crying about empty office buildings is to be believed. And based on what I see in my own office, I do believe it. My guess is that the congestion...
It's some of both, but probably more WFH if the crying about empty office buildings is to be believed. And based on what I see in my own office, I do believe it.
My guess is that the congestion pricing will push even more people to WFH and may also hurt the nightlife in lower Manhattan, which has actually been pretty bangin' lately. The bridge and tunnel crowd might start partying closer to home.
How many people drive into Manhattan to go to a bar/club? I would venture a guess that the number is relatively small (and I'm happy for it to be lower). The subways literally run 24/7. I know not...
How many people drive into Manhattan to go to a bar/club? I would venture a guess that the number is relatively small (and I'm happy for it to be lower). The subways literally run 24/7.
I know not every part of New York has amazing access to the network, but it isn't appreciably faster to drive into Manhattan from an outer part of Queens than it is to drive to a subway station and take the subway. This is not to mention that the bus system exists and is perfectly fine. It's New York.
The edge case is people who are required to drive from an area "near" the city without any transit through Manhattan to an area on the other side of the city without any transit, but that cannot be a significant population—that's simply not where the jobs are. How many people live in Great Neck on Long Island and work at the Home Depot by the Staten Island Expressway?
Considering the $1 billion in revenue will be going to the MTA, I don't see why the funds can't be used to expand transit access further, as is the goal of any transportation department.
The MTA is running at a significant deficit. They're going to need a lot more than a billion dollars to improve access. That doesn't even cover their debt interest payments. But overall, it's good...
The MTA is running at a significant deficit. They're going to need a lot more than a billion dollars to improve access. That doesn't even cover their debt interest payments. But overall, it's good that they're figuring out ways to balance that budget a little better
I don't think public services all need to run profitable, otherwise we would have to raise gas tax (currently about 500million total) by 6000% to cover NYS dot's 32 billion deficit. (No toll roads...
I don't think public services all need to run profitable, otherwise we would have to raise gas tax (currently about 500million total) by 6000% to cover NYS dot's 32 billion deficit. (No toll roads don't pay for it either only 100 million.)
I agree it shouldn't be profitable, but right now they're deeeeep in a hole of debt. These are necessary services, but someone has to pay for them (and that doesn't appear to be sufficiently...
I agree it shouldn't be profitable, but right now they're deeeeep in a hole of debt. These are necessary services, but someone has to pay for them (and that doesn't appear to be sufficiently happening). MTA is $48B in debt, so 30% more than the entire NYS DOT deficit.
Pre-pandemic we had buses (DeCamp) running to and from the city all day into the night. Last bus back home from NYC was at 1:30am, I believe, so going out for a night was always on the list of...
may also hurt the nightlife in lower Manhattan
Pre-pandemic we had buses (DeCamp) running to and from the city all day into the night. Last bus back home from NYC was at 1:30am, I believe, so going out for a night was always on the list of "fun things we can do" as long as you were able to get your ass back to Port Authority by 1:30 you were good. Then after the pandemic they switched to commuter hours only (last bus left the city at 8pm) and since the DeCamp has folded and we (and many commuters!) are left with no option but to drive there or to pay premium dollar for parking in one of the train parking lots that are sometimes full by the time you get there anyway to "park and ride" to the city. Both options suck. My town is far from the only one in the area with this problem.
I personally refuse to ever drive in the city because it's basically my version of a nightmare, but if the MTA wants more people using public transport, then the infrastructure in New Jersey needs to improve to at least what it was before the pandemic. I know people who are happily willing to take a bus every day but can't be bothered to drive to and take the train every day (or drive to a bus stop that has active NYC buses) so they drive in through miserable traffic because it's the lesser of two evils (none of the trains/NYC bus stops left are that close). If the MTA and NJTransit can work together to build good commuter (and nightlife) infrastructure, then the ridership will come.
I figured most people who travel to the office did so because they were forced to. I know some do it willingly (I go in a couple days a week on my own free will), but based on the number of people...
My guess is that the congestion pricing will push even more people to WFH
I figured most people who travel to the office did so because they were forced to. I know some do it willingly (I go in a couple days a week on my own free will), but based on the number of people in my office, most people do not.
Here's a comment from the article I want to highlight: Care is being taken to avoid being too disruptive.
Here's a comment from the article I want to highlight:
The plan will include discounts and state tax credits for some lower-income drivers. Passenger cars, taxis and for-hire vehicles would only be charged once a day.
Care is being taken to avoid being too disruptive.
I read the article, and I lived in Maryland for 17 years - and we already had congestion tolls on the beltway around DC. In fact, I remember people posting pictures of the ridiculously high...
I read the article, and I lived in Maryland for 17 years - and we already had congestion tolls on the beltway around DC. In fact, I remember people posting pictures of the ridiculously high $27-ish tolls when it first opened. I mean, I'm not sure what my opinion on congestion tolls is necessarily, but just wanted to point out that NYC isn't the first place to do this.
How were those tolls implemented? I’ve lived in Maryland for decades and driven on the DC Beltway pretty frequently. I’ve never seen anything that looked like toll infrastructure along it, and I...
How were those tolls implemented?
I’ve lived in Maryland for decades and driven on the DC Beltway pretty frequently. I’ve never seen anything that looked like toll infrastructure along it, and I don’t think I've even been charged for using the road.
Maybe I should have been a bit more specific. The tolls are for "express" or "bypass" routes around the parking lot that is 495. This article is from 2021, but these types of lanes have been...
That’s a little different from what NYC is implementing, though. It’s not uncommon to have tolled express lanes for a road, or even just toll roads. Congestion charges are generally tolls incurred...
That’s a little different from what NYC is implementing, though. It’s not uncommon to have tolled express lanes for a road, or even just toll roads. Congestion charges are generally tolls incurred by entering a geographic area, not from using a linear road section. In many cases, a congestion toll only applies during time periods when the region is congested. London's congestion charge, for example, only applies during work hours on weekdays and peak usage times on weekends.
I suppose even a road toll could be considered a congestion charge if it were applied only selectively during times of slow traffic. But always-tolled roads are different from what NYC is doing here.
As long as it comes with a push to improve public transport too - even things like prioritising buses wherever possible -, this is definitely the right way to go.
As long as it comes with a push to improve public transport too - even things like prioritising buses wherever possible -, this is definitely the right way to go.
I think this will hurt people who live far away from convenient subway lines or busses that travel into Manhattan (i.e., more working class people who live far from Manhattan, where it's less...
I think this will hurt people who live far away from convenient subway lines or busses that travel into Manhattan (i.e., more working class people who live far from Manhattan, where it's less expensive). I know the City has been having trouble hiring for vacant civil service positions, due to so many of the jobs being fulltime in office (and much lower pay compared to private companies, plus eroding benefits for new City employees). I would bet that this new toll does not help those jobs get filled. And it might encourage even more people to move away from NYC.
People who live far away from transit and aren't already wealthy don't drive themselves to work in Manhattan. It's just not done. The fact is that parking anywhere on the island is such a hail...
People who live far away from transit and aren't already wealthy don't drive themselves to work in Manhattan. It's just not done. The fact is that parking anywhere on the island is such a hail mary proposal that one can't plan to actually find an all-day parking spot on a given day, let alone do so and still be on time for work.
Yep-- one of the reasons I would never drive to the city. I personally think those who drive into NYC are insane, but I guess whatever works for them works for them.
Yep-- one of the reasons I would never drive to the city. I personally think those who drive into NYC are insane, but I guess whatever works for them works for them.
Yeah, truly the only commuters who drive themselves into Manhattan are the ones in a position to pay for parking; either they can afford it, or their work pays for it. This law doesn't affect...
Yeah, truly the only commuters who drive themselves into Manhattan are the ones in a position to pay for parking; either they can afford it, or their work pays for it. This law doesn't affect working stiffs.
The parking garages are also the only guaranteed spots in the city. Even if you were crazy enough to drive yourself to work in Manhattan without a paid spot waiting, there's a snowball's chance in hell that you'll find something closer than ten blocks from where you need to be.
I suspect this will primarily affect the relatively wealthy population of suburban North Jersey who work in Manhattan. There's quite a lot of transit east of the Hudson, including subways and...
I suspect this will primarily affect the relatively wealthy population of suburban North Jersey who work in Manhattan. There's quite a lot of transit east of the Hudson, including subways and buses, reaching even into outer Brooklyn, Queens, and the Bronx. Westchester and Long Island have really good connections to the Metro North. Jersey City and Hoboken also have great connections to Manhattan. Even Staten Island has its ferry. Honestly, even if you live in Paramus NJ, you can take the bus straight into Upper Manhattan.
People do have options. New York is New York. The difference is that many people who live in car-oriented communities refuse to take public transit — not because it's faster or easier to drive, but because driving is "just their way." I'm thinking primarily about the snootier parts of NJ, Westchester, and Long Island, where I have lived in the past. This legislation might encourage some people to move away from the city — but I don't think as many as we'd anticipate, and I don't think it would actually be that many people from NYC proper.
I think it's also aimed at the large number of Manhattanites who know they're here temporarily, for a career or family, so they don't give up the car. If there were fewer cars parked all day every...
I think it's also aimed at the large number of Manhattanites who know they're here temporarily, for a career or family, so they don't give up the car. If there were fewer cars parked all day every day on residential streets, then garbage & delivery trucks could actually pull over and let traffic flow. Moving would be so much easier.
There's an absolutely mental amount of space in Manhattan given over to unused, motionless parked cars whose owners have them in the city just for the occasional pop out. While this fee doesn't change anything about parking, it's a great disincentive to owning a car as a resident of lower Manhattan.
As someone in New Jersey looking at job postings in the area, I've noticed that most if not all public NYC jobs state "must be resident of NYC or become resident of NYC within 30 days of accepting...
I know the City has been having trouble hiring for vacant civil service positions, due to so many of the jobs being fulltime in office (and much lower pay compared to private companies, plus eroding benefits for new City employees). I would bet that this new toll does not help those jobs get filled.
As someone in New Jersey looking at job postings in the area, I've noticed that most if not all public NYC jobs state "must be resident of NYC or become resident of NYC within 30 days of accepting job." I'd have applied to some of these jobs if it weren't for that, but I don't plan on moving so no reason I would if that's a mandate.
Point is I'm not sure that commuters from outside the city can take those jobs anyway.
E-bikes have been huge for delivery workers, especially Uber Eats and Doordash and the like. I would say if you're ordering food in Manhattan, 90% of the time it's from a guy on an e-bike or...
E-bikes have been huge for delivery workers, especially Uber Eats and Doordash and the like. I would say if you're ordering food in Manhattan, 90% of the time it's from a guy on an e-bike or something similar.
The rentable Citi Bikes also include e-bikes throughout the city. I don't know why mopeds specifically haven't caught on as much (I don't think they have, I don't recall seeing many), but bikes and e-bikes are filling that gap pretty well. Between public transport and rentable bikes, I think that covers most of what mopeds would get you.
I'll add to your response with one possible answer to /u/Arimer's question: I'm not sure if it's still the case, but at one point the mayor and NYPD were targeting e-bikes for "extra enforcement,"...
I'll add to your response with one possible answer to /u/Arimer's question: I'm not sure if it's still the case, but at one point the mayor and NYPD were targeting e-bikes for "extra enforcement," which is to say ticketing them and sometimes confiscating the bikes. The city didn't want those things around. Here's a report on it with some interesting reading from before Mayor Adams took office.
My guess is its because most city traffic comes from people driving in from outside the city and the infrastructure to get to the city with a moped just doesn't seem that safe. Google indicates...
My guess is its because most city traffic comes from people driving in from outside the city and the infrastructure to get to the city with a moped just doesn't seem that safe. Google indicates mopeds top out around 30mph, while the routes into the city will regularly have all traffic going 60+ (not that it doesn't get jammed up frequently, but you need to be prepared for highway driving conditions if you're on one of those roads).
And even though the city speed limit is 25, our drivers just aren't accustomed to the sight of mopeds the way drivers in other parts of the world are. We've got rentable mopeds that have been sort...
And even though the city speed limit is 25, our drivers just aren't accustomed to the sight of mopeds the way drivers in other parts of the world are. We've got rentable mopeds that have been sort of popular, but I don't think it feels very safe.
For the larger Vespa style, we don't have the parking infrastructure for them to flourish (it's difficult to lock them up in New York). The perception is that they're less safe and easier to steal...
For the larger Vespa style, we don't have the parking infrastructure for them to flourish (it's difficult to lock them up in New York). The perception is that they're less safe and easier to steal than cars. But mainly I think they're just too single-purpose -- max one passenger, no cargo space, unpleasant to use in bad weather.
Obviously those things aren't dealbreakers in cities elsewhere, but it just goes against Americans' car-centric instinct.
For those who don't live here and want to frivolously drive in, perhaps. Bingo. New Yorkers don't drive in Manhattan to begin with unless it's absolutely necessary. I drove a cab here for 3 years...
And NYC just gets more expensive
For those who don't live here and want to frivolously drive in, perhaps.
The new tolling plan does face pushback from New Jersey politicians, including Governor Phil Murphy, as many of their constituents will be paying the new toll and some neighborhoods may experience increased traffic and pollution.
Bingo. New Yorkers don't drive in Manhattan to begin with unless it's absolutely necessary.
I drove a cab here for 3 years immediately pre-pandemic. It takes half an hour to circle a block in Chelsea on a weekend. 20% fewer personal cars on the road would be a godsend for the island.
Well then maybe the state should invest in and incentivize more public transportation options? While our options aren't horrible compared to the rest of the country, they are pretty horrible...
some neighborhoods may experience increased traffic and pollution
Well then maybe the state should invest in and incentivize more public transportation options? While our options aren't horrible compared to the rest of the country, they are pretty horrible compared to any other metro area in the world of a similar size and density.
¿Porque no los dos? Investing in and incentivizing more public transportation options is in no way an either/or alternative to a congestion fee. I'm on the side of more public transportation...
¿Porque no los dos? Investing in and incentivizing more public transportation options is in no way an either/or alternative to a congestion fee.
I'm on the side of more public transportation options by the way, but like I said in another comment, the drivers who are causing the problems in Manhattan aren't New Yorkers coming in from other boroughs to work or shop.
Lol, sorry, my bad-- I should have been clearer. I live in NJ so it's already my default that's "state" implies New Jersey and I didn't realize I left out the context indicating it was NJ state...
Lol, sorry, my bad-- I should have been clearer. I live in NJ so it's already my default that's "state" implies New Jersey and I didn't realize I left out the context indicating it was NJ state politicians I was responding to.
I remember seeing toll lanes in CA, but I think this is the first example of an entity imposing a toll to enter an area rather than to use a particularly busy section of road.
I remember seeing toll lanes in CA, but I think this is the first example of an entity imposing a toll to enter an area rather than to use a particularly busy section of road.
The first example in the US, according to the article. A handful of cities in other countries do it already. I know I've read about it in London. Wikipedia says Stockholm, Milan, Singapore are...
The first example in the US, according to the article. A handful of cities in other countries do it already. I know I've read about it in London. Wikipedia says Stockholm, Milan, Singapore are among the other cities already doing this.
I'd be willing to bet that the drop in mass transit riders is less about people driving in cars and more about people working from home who no longer have to commute into the city (I'm one of them, thank God).
It's some of both, but probably more WFH if the crying about empty office buildings is to be believed. And based on what I see in my own office, I do believe it.
My guess is that the congestion pricing will push even more people to WFH and may also hurt the nightlife in lower Manhattan, which has actually been pretty bangin' lately. The bridge and tunnel crowd might start partying closer to home.
How many people drive into Manhattan to go to a bar/club? I would venture a guess that the number is relatively small (and I'm happy for it to be lower). The subways literally run 24/7.
I know not every part of New York has amazing access to the network, but it isn't appreciably faster to drive into Manhattan from an outer part of Queens than it is to drive to a subway station and take the subway. This is not to mention that the bus system exists and is perfectly fine. It's New York.
The edge case is people who are required to drive from an area "near" the city without any transit through Manhattan to an area on the other side of the city without any transit, but that cannot be a significant population—that's simply not where the jobs are. How many people live in Great Neck on Long Island and work at the Home Depot by the Staten Island Expressway?
Considering the $1 billion in revenue will be going to the MTA, I don't see why the funds can't be used to expand transit access further, as is the goal of any transportation department.
The MTA is running at a significant deficit. They're going to need a lot more than a billion dollars to improve access. That doesn't even cover their debt interest payments. But overall, it's good that they're figuring out ways to balance that budget a little better
I don't think public services all need to run profitable, otherwise we would have to raise gas tax (currently about 500million total) by 6000% to cover NYS dot's 32 billion deficit. (No toll roads don't pay for it either only 100 million.)
I agree it shouldn't be profitable, but right now they're deeeeep in a hole of debt. These are necessary services, but someone has to pay for them (and that doesn't appear to be sufficiently happening). MTA is $48B in debt, so 30% more than the entire NYS DOT deficit.
Pre-pandemic we had buses (DeCamp) running to and from the city all day into the night. Last bus back home from NYC was at 1:30am, I believe, so going out for a night was always on the list of "fun things we can do" as long as you were able to get your ass back to Port Authority by 1:30 you were good. Then after the pandemic they switched to commuter hours only (last bus left the city at 8pm) and since the DeCamp has folded and we (and many commuters!) are left with no option but to drive there or to pay premium dollar for parking in one of the train parking lots that are sometimes full by the time you get there anyway to "park and ride" to the city. Both options suck. My town is far from the only one in the area with this problem.
I personally refuse to ever drive in the city because it's basically my version of a nightmare, but if the MTA wants more people using public transport, then the infrastructure in New Jersey needs to improve to at least what it was before the pandemic. I know people who are happily willing to take a bus every day but can't be bothered to drive to and take the train every day (or drive to a bus stop that has active NYC buses) so they drive in through miserable traffic because it's the lesser of two evils (none of the trains/NYC bus stops left are that close). If the MTA and NJTransit can work together to build good commuter (and nightlife) infrastructure, then the ridership will come.
I figured most people who travel to the office did so because they were forced to. I know some do it willingly (I go in a couple days a week on my own free will), but based on the number of people in my office, most people do not.
Here's a comment from the article I want to highlight:
Care is being taken to avoid being too disruptive.
I read the article, and I lived in Maryland for 17 years - and we already had congestion tolls on the beltway around DC. In fact, I remember people posting pictures of the ridiculously high $27-ish tolls when it first opened. I mean, I'm not sure what my opinion on congestion tolls is necessarily, but just wanted to point out that NYC isn't the first place to do this.
How were those tolls implemented?
I’ve lived in Maryland for decades and driven on the DC Beltway pretty frequently. I’ve never seen anything that looked like toll infrastructure along it, and I don’t think I've even been charged for using the road.
Maybe I should have been a bit more specific. The tolls are for "express" or "bypass" routes around the parking lot that is 495. This article is from 2021, but these types of lanes have been around (if memory serves) since 201: https://wtop.com/dc-transit/2021/11/toll-rates-approved-for-segments-of-capital-beltway-and-i-270/
That’s a little different from what NYC is implementing, though. It’s not uncommon to have tolled express lanes for a road, or even just toll roads. Congestion charges are generally tolls incurred by entering a geographic area, not from using a linear road section. In many cases, a congestion toll only applies during time periods when the region is congested. London's congestion charge, for example, only applies during work hours on weekdays and peak usage times on weekends.
I suppose even a road toll could be considered a congestion charge if it were applied only selectively during times of slow traffic. But always-tolled roads are different from what NYC is doing here.
As long as it comes with a push to improve public transport too - even things like prioritising buses wherever possible -, this is definitely the right way to go.
I think this will hurt people who live far away from convenient subway lines or busses that travel into Manhattan (i.e., more working class people who live far from Manhattan, where it's less expensive). I know the City has been having trouble hiring for vacant civil service positions, due to so many of the jobs being fulltime in office (and much lower pay compared to private companies, plus eroding benefits for new City employees). I would bet that this new toll does not help those jobs get filled. And it might encourage even more people to move away from NYC.
People who live far away from transit and aren't already wealthy don't drive themselves to work in Manhattan. It's just not done. The fact is that parking anywhere on the island is such a hail mary proposal that one can't plan to actually find an all-day parking spot on a given day, let alone do so and still be on time for work.
Yep-- one of the reasons I would never drive to the city. I personally think those who drive into NYC are insane, but I guess whatever works for them works for them.
Yeah, truly the only commuters who drive themselves into Manhattan are the ones in a position to pay for parking; either they can afford it, or their work pays for it. This law doesn't affect working stiffs.
The parking garages are also the only guaranteed spots in the city. Even if you were crazy enough to drive yourself to work in Manhattan without a paid spot waiting, there's a snowball's chance in hell that you'll find something closer than ten blocks from where you need to be.
I suspect this will primarily affect the relatively wealthy population of suburban North Jersey who work in Manhattan. There's quite a lot of transit east of the Hudson, including subways and buses, reaching even into outer Brooklyn, Queens, and the Bronx. Westchester and Long Island have really good connections to the Metro North. Jersey City and Hoboken also have great connections to Manhattan. Even Staten Island has its ferry. Honestly, even if you live in Paramus NJ, you can take the bus straight into Upper Manhattan.
People do have options. New York is New York. The difference is that many people who live in car-oriented communities refuse to take public transit — not because it's faster or easier to drive, but because driving is "just their way." I'm thinking primarily about the snootier parts of NJ, Westchester, and Long Island, where I have lived in the past. This legislation might encourage some people to move away from the city — but I don't think as many as we'd anticipate, and I don't think it would actually be that many people from NYC proper.
I think it's also aimed at the large number of Manhattanites who know they're here temporarily, for a career or family, so they don't give up the car. If there were fewer cars parked all day every day on residential streets, then garbage & delivery trucks could actually pull over and let traffic flow. Moving would be so much easier.
There's an absolutely mental amount of space in Manhattan given over to unused, motionless parked cars whose owners have them in the city just for the occasional pop out. While this fee doesn't change anything about parking, it's a great disincentive to owning a car as a resident of lower Manhattan.
As someone in New Jersey looking at job postings in the area, I've noticed that most if not all public NYC jobs state "must be resident of NYC or become resident of NYC within 30 days of accepting job." I'd have applied to some of these jobs if it weren't for that, but I don't plan on moving so no reason I would if that's a mandate.
Point is I'm not sure that commuters from outside the city can take those jobs anyway.
Why has the usage of moped type vehicles not taken off in New york like it has most other major cities in the world?
E-bikes have been huge for delivery workers, especially Uber Eats and Doordash and the like. I would say if you're ordering food in Manhattan, 90% of the time it's from a guy on an e-bike or something similar.
The rentable Citi Bikes also include e-bikes throughout the city. I don't know why mopeds specifically haven't caught on as much (I don't think they have, I don't recall seeing many), but bikes and e-bikes are filling that gap pretty well. Between public transport and rentable bikes, I think that covers most of what mopeds would get you.
I'll add to your response with one possible answer to /u/Arimer's question: I'm not sure if it's still the case, but at one point the mayor and NYPD were targeting e-bikes for "extra enforcement," which is to say ticketing them and sometimes confiscating the bikes. The city didn't want those things around. Here's a report on it with some interesting reading from before Mayor Adams took office.
My guess is its because most city traffic comes from people driving in from outside the city and the infrastructure to get to the city with a moped just doesn't seem that safe. Google indicates mopeds top out around 30mph, while the routes into the city will regularly have all traffic going 60+ (not that it doesn't get jammed up frequently, but you need to be prepared for highway driving conditions if you're on one of those roads).
And even though the city speed limit is 25, our drivers just aren't accustomed to the sight of mopeds the way drivers in other parts of the world are. We've got rentable mopeds that have been sort of popular, but I don't think it feels very safe.
For the larger Vespa style, we don't have the parking infrastructure for them to flourish (it's difficult to lock them up in New York). The perception is that they're less safe and easier to steal than cars. But mainly I think they're just too single-purpose -- max one passenger, no cargo space, unpleasant to use in bad weather.
Obviously those things aren't dealbreakers in cities elsewhere, but it just goes against Americans' car-centric instinct.
And NYC just gets more expensive. I think California already does this (varied tolls) in some areas, but limited to the express lanes.
For those who don't live here and want to frivolously drive in, perhaps.
Bingo. New Yorkers don't drive in Manhattan to begin with unless it's absolutely necessary.
I drove a cab here for 3 years immediately pre-pandemic. It takes half an hour to circle a block in Chelsea on a weekend. 20% fewer personal cars on the road would be a godsend for the island.
Well then maybe the state should invest in and incentivize more public transportation options? While our options aren't horrible compared to the rest of the country, they are pretty horrible compared to any other metro area in the world of a similar size and density.
¿Porque no los dos? Investing in and incentivizing more public transportation options is in no way an either/or alternative to a congestion fee.
I'm on the side of more public transportation options by the way, but like I said in another comment, the drivers who are causing the problems in Manhattan aren't New Yorkers coming in from other boroughs to work or shop.
To be clear, I'm very much in favor of this tax-- I just also think New Jersey needs improved public transportation.
Ha, I thought you meant "Well then maybe the state" as in the state of New York. My mistake!!
Lol, sorry, my bad-- I should have been clearer. I live in NJ so it's already my default that's "state" implies New Jersey and I didn't realize I left out the context indicating it was NJ state politicians I was responding to.
I remember seeing toll lanes in CA, but I think this is the first example of an entity imposing a toll to enter an area rather than to use a particularly busy section of road.
The first example in the US, according to the article. A handful of cities in other countries do it already. I know I've read about it in London. Wikipedia says Stockholm, Milan, Singapore are among the other cities already doing this.