What Ponsin didn’t know was that Tesla employees had been instructed to thwart any customers complaining about poor driving range from bringing their vehicles in for service. Last summer, the company quietly created a “Diversion Team” in Las Vegas to cancel as many range-related appointments as possible.
The Austin, Texas-based electric carmaker deployed the team because its service centers were inundated with appointments from owners who had expected better performance based on the company’s advertised estimates and the projections displayed by the in-dash range meters of the cars themselves, according to several people familiar with the matter.
Inside the Nevada team’s office, some employees celebrated canceling service appointments by putting their phones on mute and striking a metal xylophone, triggering applause from coworkers who sometimes stood on desks. The team often closed hundreds of cases a week and staffers were tracked on their average number of diverted appointments per day.
Managers told the employees that they were saving Tesla about $1,000 for every canceled appointment, the people said. Another goal was to ease the pressure on service centers, some of which had long waits for appointments.
In most cases, the complaining customers’ cars likely did not need repair, according to the people familiar with the matter. Rather, Tesla created the groundswell of complaints another way – by hyping the range of its futuristic electric vehicles, or EVs, raising consumer expectations beyond what the cars can deliver. Teslas often fail to achieve their advertised range estimates and the projections provided by the cars’ own equipment, according to Reuters interviews with three automotive experts who have tested or studied the company’s vehicles.
Neither Tesla nor Chief Executive Elon Musk responded to detailed questions from Reuters for this story.
I've heard of similar behaviour to this in other call centres, like people getting celebrated every time they manage to sell predatory insurance to vulnerable seniors. I'm pretty sure making this...
I've heard of similar behaviour to this in other call centres, like people getting celebrated every time they manage to sell predatory insurance to vulnerable seniors.
I'm pretty sure making this part of a call centre's office culture is a social engineering technique designed to keep the employees from feeling bad about fleecing customers, especially ones they ought to know are vulnerable whose lives they're actively seeking to harm in order to profit themselves.
The interesting thing about this one is that it sounds like the biggest issue was really just the way the EPA measures EV mileage. Tesla just presented the numbers as reported by the EPA and the...
The interesting thing about this one is that it sounds like the biggest issue was really just the way the EPA measures EV mileage. Tesla just presented the numbers as reported by the EPA and the appointments they canceled were almost all for cars that didn't have anything wrong with them.
Whose fault is the EPA mileage system? I have no idea if that is essentially controlled by industry or if there is some dumb law that caused it or what.
I wonder if this (advertised vs actual range) is a problem with other EV manufacturers/models as well? For ICE vehicles, they typically have to advertise mileage. But the advertised mileage is...
I wonder if this (advertised vs actual range) is a problem with other EV manufacturers/models as well? For ICE vehicles, they typically have to advertise mileage. But the advertised mileage is done under super ideal conditions, and is often not actually met in real life driving. They also split mileage for highway vs city driving, since driving conditions have a huge impact on mileage. I imagine it would be similar for EVs? If you accelerate hard, or use AC and heat, how much impact does that have on range? Does advertised range account for these real-world scenarios?
With an ICE vehicle, a little variance in mileage isn't as big of a deal as it is with EV range. Range is the Achilles heal of EVs. When you combine relatively poor range (300-350 miles for a Model 3 vs 450-600 miles for an ICE sedan) with relative lack of charging infra (charger availability and charge time vs gas station availability and fill time), it's no surprise that people will be more upset at lower-than-advertised range in general, especially if it decreases over time with battery degradation. Obviously, this article is about Tesla and their attempts to thwart these complaints. But are other manufactures having the same problems? Or is this specific to Tesla's own advertising model?
As someone with a non-Tesla EV, I feel the more seasoned “titans of industry” are taking a more tempered approach to marketing the expected ranges, based on their experience in the industry...
As someone with a non-Tesla EV, I feel the more seasoned “titans of industry” are taking a more tempered approach to marketing the expected ranges, based on their experience in the industry already with MPG, as you pointed out. My own vehicle has received multiple OTA updates to better refine range prediction in the car, and it remains around where the car was advertised. I’m sure Teslas have as well, but are also taking the more edgy marketing approach of selling the pinnacle of estimates as THE estimate in an effort to be boastful.
I think quite a bit of Teslas problems come from it’s relative infancy, and the fact that it’s man-child leader would rather shitpost on Twitter and call people names than actually run a company, and that trickles down.
Good to know, thanks for the info! I would've figured that legacy car manufacturers would've learned their lessons from previous attempts to do what Tesla is doing with their range metrics, but...
Good to know, thanks for the info! I would've figured that legacy car manufacturers would've learned their lessons from previous attempts to do what Tesla is doing with their range metrics, but you never know. Glad to hear that your experience with a different manufacturer is better.
I got a Chevy Bolt in February. It reports three ranges to me: an expected range, and then a max and a min above and below that. My commute is almost exactly 40 miles daily (round trip), and when...
I got a Chevy Bolt in February.
It reports three ranges to me: an expected range, and then a max and a min above and below that. My commute is almost exactly 40 miles daily (round trip), and when I first started using the car, I would check the estimate regularly and it seemed pretty spot on, dropping by about 40 miles each day. It also gives a report when I turn the car off showing how different aspects contributed to my battery consumption.
The weather is much warmer now than it was when I got it, and my overall estimated range is higher than it used to be. When I got the car the expected range was about 240. Now it’s about 280. Some of that change might not just be weather related though: it might have changed because it has more data on my driving habits now.
Thus far I haven’t had any cause to doubt the my car’s accuracy with regards to range, but I’ve also never taken a road trip with it or let it go below about 80 miles of range.
When it comes to range, I always found the advertising situation (MPGe) to be extremely confusing. Over time our Chevy Bolt's range prediction has become much more accurate, but we don't drive...
When it comes to range, I always found the advertising situation (MPGe) to be extremely confusing. Over time our Chevy Bolt's range prediction has become much more accurate, but we don't drive very much so it took a long time to get there. Because I come from an engineering background, I just found it much simpler to estimate range based on our actual efficiency. If I get an average of 4 mi / kWh on a drive, and I know my battery has 64 kWh, then I know I can get 256 mi of max range out of my battery. I wonder what it'll take to make this user friendly to folks who don't have a background like I do.
For me, the dealbreaker isn't necessarily having to stop for 20-30m instead of 10-15m (although that is annoying as well). It's where you have to stop. There are so few chargers along many routes...
For people that mostly drive in town and on daily commutes - if they occasionally drive longer distances and have to take a couple of 20-30 minute stops instead of a couple of 10-15 minute stops… is that truly a huge dealbreaker?
For me, the dealbreaker isn't necessarily having to stop for 20-30m instead of 10-15m (although that is annoying as well). It's where you have to stop. There are so few chargers along many routes that you literally have to pre-plan where you're going to stop and how long you need to stay/charge so that you have enough range to hop between charging stations. And, you hope that it's walking distance to a restaurant or something where you can grab a bite to eat or do whatever you would've done on your stop in an ICE vehicle. Obviously, this will get better over time as more and more chargers come online. But it's a big issue today in my area, specifically when you leave the city and drive out towards the mountains or the coast.
There isn't a thing about my job I like enough to even remotely consider any of that as "normal".. WTF?
I've heard of similar behaviour to this in other call centres, like people getting celebrated every time they manage to sell predatory insurance to vulnerable seniors.
I'm pretty sure making this part of a call centre's office culture is a social engineering technique designed to keep the employees from feeling bad about fleecing customers, especially ones they ought to know are vulnerable whose lives they're actively seeking to harm in order to profit themselves.
The interesting thing about this one is that it sounds like the biggest issue was really just the way the EPA measures EV mileage. Tesla just presented the numbers as reported by the EPA and the appointments they canceled were almost all for cars that didn't have anything wrong with them.
Whose fault is the EPA mileage system? I have no idea if that is essentially controlled by industry or if there is some dumb law that caused it or what.
Except it's also the onboard tesla estimates that they're complaining about as well?
I wonder if this (advertised vs actual range) is a problem with other EV manufacturers/models as well? For ICE vehicles, they typically have to advertise mileage. But the advertised mileage is done under super ideal conditions, and is often not actually met in real life driving. They also split mileage for highway vs city driving, since driving conditions have a huge impact on mileage. I imagine it would be similar for EVs? If you accelerate hard, or use AC and heat, how much impact does that have on range? Does advertised range account for these real-world scenarios?
With an ICE vehicle, a little variance in mileage isn't as big of a deal as it is with EV range. Range is the Achilles heal of EVs. When you combine relatively poor range (300-350 miles for a Model 3 vs 450-600 miles for an ICE sedan) with relative lack of charging infra (charger availability and charge time vs gas station availability and fill time), it's no surprise that people will be more upset at lower-than-advertised range in general, especially if it decreases over time with battery degradation. Obviously, this article is about Tesla and their attempts to thwart these complaints. But are other manufactures having the same problems? Or is this specific to Tesla's own advertising model?
As someone with a non-Tesla EV, I feel the more seasoned “titans of industry” are taking a more tempered approach to marketing the expected ranges, based on their experience in the industry already with MPG, as you pointed out. My own vehicle has received multiple OTA updates to better refine range prediction in the car, and it remains around where the car was advertised. I’m sure Teslas have as well, but are also taking the more edgy marketing approach of selling the pinnacle of estimates as THE estimate in an effort to be boastful.
I think quite a bit of Teslas problems come from it’s relative infancy, and the fact that it’s man-child leader would rather shitpost on Twitter and call people names than actually run a company, and that trickles down.
Good to know, thanks for the info! I would've figured that legacy car manufacturers would've learned their lessons from previous attempts to do what Tesla is doing with their range metrics, but you never know. Glad to hear that your experience with a different manufacturer is better.
Ah, I missed that in the article. Thanks for clarifying
I got a Chevy Bolt in February.
It reports three ranges to me: an expected range, and then a max and a min above and below that. My commute is almost exactly 40 miles daily (round trip), and when I first started using the car, I would check the estimate regularly and it seemed pretty spot on, dropping by about 40 miles each day. It also gives a report when I turn the car off showing how different aspects contributed to my battery consumption.
The weather is much warmer now than it was when I got it, and my overall estimated range is higher than it used to be. When I got the car the expected range was about 240. Now it’s about 280. Some of that change might not just be weather related though: it might have changed because it has more data on my driving habits now.
Thus far I haven’t had any cause to doubt the my car’s accuracy with regards to range, but I’ve also never taken a road trip with it or let it go below about 80 miles of range.
When it comes to range, I always found the advertising situation (MPGe) to be extremely confusing. Over time our Chevy Bolt's range prediction has become much more accurate, but we don't drive very much so it took a long time to get there. Because I come from an engineering background, I just found it much simpler to estimate range based on our actual efficiency. If I get an average of 4 mi / kWh on a drive, and I know my battery has 64 kWh, then I know I can get 256 mi of max range out of my battery. I wonder what it'll take to make this user friendly to folks who don't have a background like I do.
For me, the dealbreaker isn't necessarily having to stop for 20-30m instead of 10-15m (although that is annoying as well). It's where you have to stop. There are so few chargers along many routes that you literally have to pre-plan where you're going to stop and how long you need to stay/charge so that you have enough range to hop between charging stations. And, you hope that it's walking distance to a restaurant or something where you can grab a bite to eat or do whatever you would've done on your stop in an ICE vehicle. Obviously, this will get better over time as more and more chargers come online. But it's a big issue today in my area, specifically when you leave the city and drive out towards the mountains or the coast.