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Game of Thrones Season 8 Episode 1 discussion thread
Wanted to start a discussion for us GoT fans and give our thoughts on how the first episode played out and what we expect to come. Please delete if unnecessary/unwanted. This is a spoiler zone so you've been warned
Really happy with it. But it almost feels like HBO is blowing their load in long-awaited moments in the first episode. Jon riding a dragon, all the reunions, LRJ revelation to Jon, etc.
There's only a few episodes, so I guess we're on for several episodes of pure fighting.
I think this whole final season is going to be blowing their load. There’s only so much screen time left and a lot of subplots to wrap up if it’s going to have any sense of cohesion or closure. It’s a little weird in contrast to some of the previous seasons where some subplots were quite prolonged, maybe even belabored. There is so much expectation, though, I’m actually having trouble seeing how it will possibly deliver (despite the massive budget). Like, the scene with the Hound and Arya was just not what I expected at all. I have a feeling many of my expectations are not going to be met.
Yeah, as someone who used to like GoT and now just watches it for my social duty, the whole episode felt like a bunch of one-liners. Important character enters scene, another character says something chiding or jovial, important character says something witty in response /scene. Maybe they've written themselves into a little bit of a corner, given that the audience knows a lot of things. So the show needs to get the characters up to speed with what the audience already knows, and try to keep that fresh and interesting.
A couple of interesting pieces of dialogue literally just cut to the next scene instead of resolving:
"How will we feed your army and dragons?"
"Did you bend the knee because it was wise or because you love her?"
Both of these questions could have led to interesting confrontations and/or dialogues that bring you back into the world of GoT. The nitty gritty of the logistics. Maybe Sansa needs to pressure northern lords even more to acquire the food needed. Maybe that leads to more believable discontent. Idk, that seems to be the implication, but they just passed on actually writing and acting it.
Like ol' George, they're in the position of needing to wrap up too many loose ends. But the show can't be put on hold like the books. So instead of the theoretical perfect conclusion, we get a realistic end to 5 books of exposition.
It must be a time issue. I think there are 540 minutes total in this season, and we're 10% through without shedding any blood. I worry everything will feel rushed just to handle the major conflicts, let alone the minor subplots and loose ends. Last season felt rushed too.
I love the show. I double-love the books. The books are not written yet, and so D&D only have what Martin has told them about to work with. I believe that D&D are going to paint Martin's vision for the end of the series with only the broadest of strokes. I expect only that R+L=J will be true in the books and that they will both end relatively similarly.
That said, they have a TON of loose ends to tie up and I expect a frantic pace for the season, which I think was the underlying message behind your comment.
That's why it baffles me they spent so much time with Jon And Daenerys flying dragons. That whole scene should have been cut out.
They needed to establish that he could ride them, and that it pleased Daenarys that he could. Also, it is going to give weight to Sam's claim that he is a Targaryen as everyone knows only a Targaryen can ride a dragon. Could the scene have been less cheesy? Yeah probably, but I think the rest of the season is going to have enough moments of absolute despair and horror that I will allow the writers the leeway to give these guys a break before plunging them all into the meat grinder.
He should have first ridden on in the heat of battle. Imagine this : Jon is struggling and getting surrounded and out of nowhere Rhaegal, the dragon named after his father, comes and saves him as he jumps seamlessly on his back
True, I didn't think about how only Targaryans can ride dragons. I guess it wasn't a totally useless scene.
Yeah, I was kind of surprised as well. Everything seemed to be moving along. Heck even Euron managed to sleep with Cersei.
There was also almost no bloodshed (by GoT standards). There was that scene toward the end with the Umber kid and the seen where Theon rescues Yara, both of which were very brief.
The last shot with Bran and Jamie is the best in the episode. "Waiting for an old friend"...
I wonder if Bran will actually seek out revenge against Jamie. He seems too detached to care about something like that.
He definitely knows. He can go anywhere in history. The part of him that's still Bran totally checked out what happened that day
Small point of contention here: he can go any place in history that has crows or weirwood trees - he's effectively warging into things in the past, similar to what happened with Hodor.
I mean the shove from the tower likely had crows around and the heart tree of winterfell is powerful, so it's there and he probably knows about it now - but only after his transformation into the three-eyed raven (i.e. creepy-bran). Once he was the three-eyed raven, he probably realized that if he wasn't shoved out of the tower, then he wouldn't have become the three-eyed raven, so he probably doesn't give a shit.
I never read the books, and much of the series has left my mind. Remind me, what did happened?
Bran saw Jamie and Cersei getting nasty in a tower at King's landing. Jamie pushed him out the window, resulting in him becoming paralyzed.
oh right! of course. That was in the first episode if i remember correctly?
Yes. The very last action of the first scene. They cut to credits before he hit the ground.
I was so engrossed in the episode that Jaime being the "old friend" had never occurred to me until someone mentioned it after the fact. Bran will, no doubt, be supremely forgiving, knowing that Jaime doing what he did paved the way for Bran to become the Three Eyed Raven.
I also think Jaimie will have an important role to play in the war against the Night King and obviously Bran knows that so he won't care about his past transgressions. Bran is going to stick up for him when Daenarys puts him on trial for murdering Aerys.
I don't think he will. Quite the contrary. He's going to defend him in front of Daenerys and Sansa. The fact that he pushed him was his destiny. He was supposed to become the three-eyed raven. He had to lose his legs in order to be able to fly.
Bran isn't really Bran anymore though. He doesn't care about petty personal issues like that, he only cares about pushing the pieces on the board into the position they need to be in so that events unfold how he wants them to. That tells me that Jaimie has an important role to play and Bran knows what it is.
Like how Bran urges Sam to confront Jon about his heritage immediately after Daenarys admits to him that she murdered his father and brother. Bran knows Sam will make a more convincing argument against Daenarys being Queen for Jon to take his role as King because of the news he just received. Why else would he say now is the time, and you have to be the one to do it?
That never occurred to me as a possibility. It'll be interesting to see if Jamie has any thoughts about silencing Bran.
Considering Jaime's entire character arc, manner in which he rode north, and total loss of the lannister blond hair, I have a feeling that he's actively trying to put the past behind him, and we already know he's much more forgiving.
I’m sure your right, but I wonder if we won’t have some dramatic moment where that could happen, but Jaimie reaffirms his move to the light.
Cersei sending Bronn after Jaime/Tyrion is smart on her part but I don't think it'll work. Even if Bronn were a sellsword in the purest form, Jaime and Tyrion are too smart and know Bronn too well to think Bronn would travel North for any reason other than at Cersei's command. But I don't think Bronn is so devoted to money that he would actually kill Jaime and Tyrion for it as I do think he has a soft spot for them. I also think Bronn is smart enough to realize that Cersei has ordered him on a suicide mission.
I'm a fan of Lyanna Mormont but if she, and the other Northern Lords like Glover, expected Jon NOT to give up his crown if it meant securing the armies the North needs, they were even more short sighted than I thought they'd be. I knew they'd be stubborn but damn. They know the threat they face and they know Jon would do anything to save the North, including bending the knee to Daenerys. I get they don't like Daenerys because she is a Targaryen but she's brought dragons, dragonglass, and men to fight, things the North desperately needs if its going to survive the war against the Army of the Dead. They placed their faith in Jon to lead them, that means having faith that he's making the right choice.
I didn't think they'd reveal Jons parentage to him in the first episode. I figured it'd be a bit later. The North is already upset that he brought Daenerys there and that he bent the knee to her, I can only imagine how it's going to go once they learn the truth, if they live that long.
Interesting meta-point, sending Qyburn to deliver the message was a necessity.
Wow! Thanks I never knew that.
I agree. I think Bronn will hide his true intentions under the guise of Tyrions offer but I don't believe he'd have it in him to kill either one of them for money. Not for Cersei. Especially because I think Bronn is smart enough to know that Cersei sent Bronn hoping he'd die in the process.
Jon lied to his people and sansa called him out for it. Dany was totally on board for fucking up the night king without Jons submission. When he woke up on the boat last season she was all in ready to avenge her lost dragon and Jon was like "uh I'll bend the knee too!" Sansa called him out in this episode that he did it for love, not for his people.
I thought it was very well done. Lots of reunion pay-off moments. I really liked Arya's reunion with Clegane and then Gendry. I still think it's hilarious that we haven't seen Ghost since season six. I wonder what he's doing out there?
One of two things:
He'll come out of nowhere and BenJen someone
He'll attack as a wight
Overall, I liked the episode. It was slower and shorter than I was expecting, but a lot of the scenes were fun and honestly necessary. As long as the rest of the season picks up the pace, I have no complaints. There was line that I think might be the worst line, in both delivery and writing, in GOT; Sir Jora's "They could save me, but they wouldn't" line. It was just so widely unnecessary and flatly delivered, especially with how well Sam was selling it. It was tiny moment, but boy, did it pull me out of the scene. Also, Lynna Mormant is amazing, so as long as they have her in every episode, I will be happy.
You know that saying things like this kills characters, right?
NO! Don't even suggest it, she needs to get Longclaw back from Jon first.
Some parts felt a bit too rushed, but I enjoyed it. It's game of thrones, it hardly goes bad.
I was, however, told that each episode would be over 1h this season. This episode was about 50mins.. What a letdown!
That's 1h20 not 120 minutes
What are your thoughts on the Targaryen line of succession? I was under the impression that Daenerys would be ahead of John. I understand that John's father was the crown prince, but he was also killed before becoming king, so I always assumed that it would mean Daenerys would be ahead of him. The way they discussed it in the show makes it certain that John is the rightful heir. I have no doubt that Sam understands how the line of succession works better than anyone.
How do you think John will handle the situation? Will he tell Daenerys? How will Daenerys take the news? Will she believe it, or acknowledge that she is not the ruler? Will they just agree on some co-ruler deal as varys was suggesting?
In a standard primogeniture succession, the crown "looks down" until it hits a dead end before backing up. Rhaegar is dead, but the line continues downward from him through Jon, so Jon would have a stronger claim than any of Aerys' other kids regardless of their gender.
I'm pretty sure it's going to end with not much left to govern.
I hope so, but I think there is no way both of them make it to the end.
I'm just here wondering if they will continue having sex... Also, I doubt Jon will ask for the throne without outside pressure. He has stated so many times that doesn't want to be crowned, just because he has Targaryen blood he is now going to completely change his mind? I doubt it, or at least I wouldn't expect that of him.
I'm not sure how "correct" the line of succession is. Mostly, I don't want to tell you anything incorrect or give false info. I generally understood it that Jon would have the stronger claim being technically the next in line through the Crown Prince but for the most part, in Westeros, the male heir in the line of succession will almost always take precedence over a female even if the female is technically next in line. Look no further than Winterfell. Sansa, as a true born Stark, has a stronger claim to Winterfell than Jon but the Northern Lords made him King in the North. Partially because of his character but also because he's a son of Ned Stark, or so they believed.
As far as Jon and Dany......I doubt Jon will have any interest in pursuing the Iron Throne. The North, and Winterfell, is where he wants to be. I think he'd take it if it meant saving Winterfell and his family but that's the only scenario I could foresee him having any interest in it. Which further reinforces why he should be the one sitting on the Throne. The truth will be a shock to Jon and I'm almost certain he'll tell Sam and Bran to keep the truth a secret, that revealing it would only threaten the alliance he's worked to build.
Dany will not take it well. The Iron Throne has been her goal the entirety of the show, especially once Viserys was killed off. I think she'll initially see it as a plot to usurp her but will come around. Bran will probably tell her something that only she could possibly know so that she'll be able to trust what he says. I'm glad that Jon knows the truth now but I wish that the truth had been revealed in a public setting. Somewhere where everyone would've seen Jons reaction so that they'll be able to see how shocked he was. His reputation, just like Ned, is that he doesn't have a dishonest bone in his body. I think they'd see his reaction as genuine and not part of a plot. That's where a marriage alliance saves the day. Dany would've married someone anyway, marrying the true heir, an honorable man, and someone the North trusts and respects would go a long way towards fostering peace.
I'm confused. What marriage alliance are you suggesting?
Daenerys and Jon
It was referenced by Ser Davos and Varys when they were on the castle walls looking down at Jon and Daenerys as a means to solidify their alliance and hopefully quell the Northerners mistrust of Daenerys. It would also do wonders for peace in the realm as you would have united two of the most powerful Great Houses in the same way Robert Baratheon and Ned Stark discussed early on in the show
And just hope no-one else finds out or blabs about them being nephew and aunt?
Given Jon's previous behaviour I think it's highly doubtful he'd ignore and lie about it, now that Sam's told him. That seems far too out of character to me.
That's encouraged for Targs. It won't be a hurdle for anyone but viewers.I misread the thread there. I agree. Jon will surely tell others and or someone will. I think they have to come clean with it.
Yes, I am guessing the same or similar will happen. I hope that future plot points aren't so easy to discern, but I'm thinking there will be lots of room for surprises still.
I think if both Dani and Jon survive, which is a big IF, Jon and his line will be her successors. Tyrion was hinting at the succession problem back in S7, and Dani completely blew him off. Back then, I assumed it was because she was going to dissolve the Iron Throne, or at least its hereditary nature, at her death. Now, I am guessing that there are 3 main options for who wins the Iron Throne.
Obviously, they could do anything else as well, but these are my best guesses.
I think the episode contains a number of small filler moments just to fill the rest of it out. I'll use the typically cliche and unnecessary sex scene as one example and maybe even the small bit near the beginning with the eunuch quip from Tyrion. There's even two minutes of screen time dedicated to a boy trying to get a decent view of the army moving in just after the show title opening which again, is strangely high. Overall these are minor points particularly given that it is, after all, the first episode of the season, but it was noticeable enough for me to wonder about the overall pacing of the larger story at hand as well as all of its subplots as the season pans out.
That's fair.
What about that Dragon-glass forging? I thought that was almost impossible in modern day backyard experiments, and the best that you actually get is like...dirty brittle glass, and definitely not 'true' obsidian.
I know that in the past when people really did use obsidian and similar material for weapons, they almost always chipped it out of a larger chunk, which is why even a small handaxe is really rare - more likely to see a bunch of small stones mounted in a club.
Dude, the show has dragons, zombies, face swapping, and fire gods. It's not worth it trying to stop and analyze the historic or technical accuracy of it.
That really isn't an argument though. People tend to confuse realism with coherence. Having a dragon in a show doesn't mean people will start walking on their heads and everyone should accept it. And yet, I always hear it brought in when fantasy is involved. "What? There is dragon and magic in the show but that one detail bothers you?"
I'm not talking about people walking on heads. I'm talking about a technical analysis of an imaginary material in a universe where our physics and chemistry laws clearly don't apply. It makes no sens to compare it to real world forging since the rules are completely different.
And this is a detail that so few people will ever think about. 99% of GOT viewers know nothing about steel forging or its history. So why should the writers have to spend time making sure those details are accurate?