What's your favorite scene in Tolkien's Legendarium? (Hobbit, Lord of the Rings, Silmarillion, etc...)
Edit: I love the films too, but I'm really looking for examples in the text, even if the adaptation does the scene justice, I'm interested in how Tolkien himself wrote it.
I'm on a bit of a JRR Tolkien kick recently and revisiting some of my favorite bits from the books. One thing I really appreciate about Tolkien's writing is the outright poetry of some of the paragraphs and lines. I think the only "wordsmith" who appeals this much to me is Cormac McCarthy (and to some extent GRR Martin) -- but for very different reasons. Anyways, I'll share my favorite section from the Legendarium.
Théoden's charge at Minas Tirith - The Return of the King
To set the stage, the Rohirrim have navigated to Minas Tirith and are greeted by a dying besieged city steeped in darkess and fire. Upon seeing this, we get this line about Théoden:
But the king sat upon Snowmane, motionless, gazing upon the agony of Minas Tirith, as if stricken suddenly by anguish, or by dread. He seemed to shrink down, cowed by age.
Merry utterly loses hope at seeing the city and the reaction of the king. Then as all hope seems lost, we get one of the best sections in the whole trilogy:
At that sound the bent shape of the king sprang suddenly erect. Tall and proud he seemed again; and rising in his stirrups he cried in a loud voice, more clear than any there had ever heard a mortal man achieve before:
Arise, arise, Riders of Théoden!
Fell deeds awake: fire and slaughter!
spear shall be shaken, shield be splintered,
a sword-day, a red day, ere the sun rises!
Ride now, ride now! Ride to Gondor!With that he seized a great horn from Guthláf his banner-bearer, and he blew such a blast upon it that it burst asunder. And straightway all the horns in the host were lifted up in music, and the blowing of the horns of Rohan in that hour was like a storm upon the plain and a thunder in the mountains.
Ride now, ride now! Ride to Gondor!
Suddenly the king cried to Snowmane and the horse sprang away. Behind him his banner blew in the wind, white horse upon a field of green, but he outpaced it. After him thundered the knights of his house, but he was ever before them. Éomer rode there, the white horsetail on his helm floating in his speed, and the front of the first éored roared like a breaker foaming to the shore, but Théoden could not be overtaken. Fey he seemed, or the battle-fury of his fathers ran like new fire in his veins, and he was borne up on Snowmane like a god of old, even as Oromë the Great in the battle of the Valar when the world was young. His golden shield was uncovered, and lo! it shone like an image of the Sun, and the grass flamed into green about the white feet of his steed. For morning came, morning and a wind from the sea; and darkness was removed, and the hosts of Mordor wailed, and terror took them, and they fled, and died, and the hoofs of wrath rode over them. And then all the host of Rohan burst into song, and they sang as they slew, for the joy of battle was on them, and the sound of their singing that was fair and terrible came even to the City.
This might be my favorite bit in all of LOTR because we see good king Théoden shed all his fears and doubts and actualize into the man he was meant to be. And to be compared to the Valar Oromë to boot! Wow. I am also a total sucker for any moment in the trilogy when a deed or character gets compared to events or characters of the First Age. Anytime that happens, you know it's a big deal since the First Age was so much "larger than life" than the events of the Third Age. Tolkien does a similar thing when Sam faces off Shelob noting that not even Túrin or Beren with any craft of the elves could have injured her -- yet Sam stood his ground, nonetheless.
I am not a Tolkien scholar, but I know Tolkien was incredibly steeped in medieval and ancient literature (I mean, he was a Professor of English literature) so I know his heart was really in old mythologies in Germanic or Norse traditions (for example Túrin Turambar's story is directly inspired by the Finnish tale of Kullervo, or how almost word-for-word bits of The Wanderer poem end up in Rohan's culture and song). Because of his Christian faith though, I suspect he had qualms with the often-brutal mortality of those tales and the cultures which produced them. This section with Théoden charging bravely against hopelessness and despair I think represents the "merger" of all the positive qualities he found in heroes like Beowulf with his more temperate worldview. It's an idealization of the heroic good-pagan Germanic king.
This isn't strictly a scene, but I adore the Ainulindalë. Tolkien's creation myth for his world is just pure poetry, and I never get sick of reading it. It speaks to me as a musician, of course, but also it is just a wonderful idea of how a world could come into being. The lapsed Catholic in me was initially a little uncomfortable at some of the more overtly Christian themes and ideas, but I long since got over that and just enjoy the tale for its beauty and its majesty. There is a short phrase that the tale ends on: "in the Deeps of Time and amidst of the innumerable stars," and I cannot tell you what it is, but that just gives me chills every single time.
Even if you don't read the rest of the Silmarillion (and Eru knows I haven't), I thoroughly recommend the first chapter, as it is just magical. Why, here's a handy pdf! And here's an utterly beautiful webcomic that tells the tale with gorgeous artwork.
... That webcomic is beautiful.
Wow, that comic is amazing. Thanks for sharing.
Not a scene, but a quote:
In the books I quite enjoyed the scene where Frodo and Faramir had a long talk while eating food. I listened to the autobook years after I had seen the movies and I felt this really added to Faramir's charicter.
Also the scouring of the Shire I understand why it was not included in the films as it as already a long movie. But in the book it really showed how much the Shire had changed since they left.
Is this the part where the Ring seems to have no sway or hold over Faramir? Or is that a different scene?
It has been a while since I listened to it but I think the scene I am talking about it this one here
The one with the ring might be in next chapterat the forbidden pools.
I first read LotR in fifth grade. It was one of the first novels I ever read truly for myself. It started me down a long path of high fantasy reading that persists to this day.
I idolized Aragorn as a kid (still do a bit) and loved everything about his character and lore. Andúril and his Ranger sword currently hang above my desk.
With the exception of a few years skipped I have reread the book yearly since the mid 90s. The paragraph above when Aragorn is first described has always heald a special place in my heart (it's a great scene in the movie as well).
There are many other amazing scenes but this is by far my favorite (admittedly nostalgia plays a big role in my choice).
Any cool fantasy series you'd recommend besides Tolkien's work?
What kind of fantasy are you interested in? Honestly, I've never really run into something that actually scratches the itch for something with a similar kind of artistry that Tolkien had. Despite being so influential, few modern authors actually wish to write in the archaic style he did -- both for technical reasons (Tolkien's education and expertise let him draw on sources that aren't heavily read outside academia) and modern sensibilities. To that end, if you want more Tolkien outside LOTR, you just have to read more Tolkien and dive into the Silmarillion, Unfinished Tales, Children of Hurin, etc... There's a ton of stuff to read outside the trilogy and most of it is carefully curated and collected by his son Christopher.
Here's some popular choices though:
Brandon Sanderson is an easy sell. His prose isn't as beautifully constructed as Tolkien's, and instead is 'functional', but his fantasy worlds are very detailed and well thought out. I suggest either starting with The Final Empire (1st book in the Mistborn trilogy) or Warbreaker (standalone). I would suggest his corpus (nearly all his novels share the same universe) is second only to Tolkien's in complexity and detail.
Joe Abercrombie's novels are very entertaining and pulpy. The Blade Itself (1st book in the First Law trilogy) is the starting point. The world building is paper thin, but the emphasize is on the characters and action. His books are rather grim and have dark to black comedy in them. Probably best described as good D&D campaign in novel form.
George R.R. Martin's A Song of Ice and Fire series is probably the best fantasy storytelling I've come across in character depth and complexity. Despite some memes pointing out some bad prose, GRRM is probably the only fantasy writer I've seen ever turn words as well as Tolkien did. A Game of Thrones is the first of five so far published novels out of a planned seven. Famously the series is unfinished however which might turn you off and nobody knows if the series will be finished. Even still, I recommend it because what is published is great. An alternate starting point would be the three Dunk & Egg novellas (collected into a single book: A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms) which are episodic standalones which are amazing.
Frank Herbert's Dune novels aren't fantasy, they're sci-fi, but they strike me as one of the more well thought out fictional universes you're like to come across. I'll just say it has some of the same vibes as Tolkien's work in terms of the grand scale of the stories being told. Dune itself is a great standalone read. The sequels get progressively weirder, but are very interesting in my view. Skip anything written by his son.
Mentions to series I've heard good things about but haven't gotten to read yet:
Robin Hobb's Realm of the Elderlings
Ursula K. LeGuin's Earthsea
Steven Erickson's Malazan Book of the Fallen
Philipp Pullman's His Dark Materials
I agree with everything you said but I'd like to considerably second the Dune series recommendation, at least the original 6. It's really the only other series that's captivated and engaged me like LOTR.
I’ve read the three main Mistborn books. Do you have a recommendation for what next? There are so many…
I'd start with The Stormlight Archive series. It's great! The first book is called The Way of Kings. Or you can keep going in the mistborn series and grab The Allow of Law. If you want a shorter read Elantris is good, and I think there's more books planned making it a series. Warbreaker is also good for a short read, but my favourite of his work is The Stormlight Archive for sure, the only downside is that it's not a finished series, so when you catch up you have to wait for new releases.
Want something a little more episodic and pulpy? Jump into more Mistborn with the Wax & Wayne series
Want Brandon's attempt at a serious magnum opus? Pick up The Stormlight Archives starting with The Way of Kings.
And Warbreaker is still on the table and (mostly) standalone.
Dune always read to me as fantasy much in the same way as Star Wars.
But I suppose ultimately they're a blend? I've always found genres very confining because not everything fits into a neat little box.
Has anyone here read The Book of The New Sun series by Gene Wolf? Fantasy, science fiction, or both?
Fantasy and science fiction overlap in a myriad of ways so I agree completely that many series can't be placed in such neat taxonomic boxes.
I read The Book of the New Sun in high school (many decades ago) and liked them quite a bit, though I admit I haven't read them since. I have read other Gene Wolf series though - I tried the Long Sun/Short Sun series but couldn't get into them, but I read the Soldier series a few years ago and really enjoyed it.
Not who you asked but Deed of Paksenarrion has a good vs evil vibe similar to Tolkein, although on a much more personal scale. It's the origin story of a paladin and has a lot to like about it including the fact that Moon's military experience helped shape the military aspects of the story. Paks appears to be ace.
Lions of Al Rassan doesn't have the supernatural/mythic elements of Tolkein but does have a story that brought out feelings for me the way Lord of the Rings did. It has clashing cultures, political intrigue, religious persecution, moral dilemmas deriving from being a warrior and being a feudal vassal. It has an epic bittersweet ending with tragic elements.
It might just be the audiobook (Rob Inglis version) doing justice to this part, but I’ve always enjoyed the witch king confrontation + Rohan arrival, particularly:
Gandalf recounting his fight with Durin's Bane, specifically after he'd fallen into the chasm.
The deep earth terrifies me. Huge phobia. Caves are nightmares. Where Gandalf went is pure hell to me - lost in tunnels so far below Middle Earth that it's indescribable except through mythic language. "The foundations of stone" indeed. I'd be catatonic.
I imagine him tracking Durin's Bane for those eight days while both of them were trying to remain quiet enough to not rouse the Nameless Things that ate the very tunnels they crept through, Gandalf only rarely using his magic to light the way. In their hunted, weakened states, I don't imagine either of them wanted to square off against some hideous flesh amalgam with a hundred tentacles trying to eat them. I know that description isn't canon, but I always imagined the Nameless Things as an even worse version of the Watcher in the Water.
A close second is Morgoth being nearly consumed by Ungoliant. As with much of the Silmarillion, Tolkien leaves the finer details up to us. Since Morgoth was massive, and Ungoliant was large enough and dark enough to frighten even Morgoth, I always imagined the scene as this massive spider, large enough to step over mountains, the living embodiment of every twisted shadow and ill-intent on and below Arda. So powerful that her attack made Morgoth himself scream in pain. A truly terrifying creature.
If you can't tell, I most enjoy Tolkien's forrays into eldritch/primordial horror. They're far too brief, in my opinion. I wonder sometimes if he approached them purely from a utilitarian perspective - a way to place his heroes in context - rather than from a perspective of curiosity. Perhaps that's why they're so shortly explored despite their scope.
The Nameless Things have always drummed up a LOT of imagination on my end. Like you, I want to know more about them, but on the other hand, the lack of information is partly what makes them so compelling. I think more the cosmic horror aspects of LOTR is elaborated on briefly in the History of Middle Earth study book "Morgoth's Ring". Morgoth poured much of his power into Arda itself, in addition to his corruption of the music of the Ainur, and this evil manifested in Arda in many different ways -- plenty of which Morgoth himself had no control over. I think these Nameless Things are just another manifestation of his corruption. And despite he himself becoming utterly defeated, his essence, the essence of evil can never truly be eradicated from the world, though it can clearly be diluted like entropy dilutes order physically.
I don't think JRRT ever says one way or the other if Ungoliant was a result of Morgoth's corruption of the music or if she was something even more primal and ancient, but I suspect she is also a being birthed from the corruption of the music and his discord. That something he himself had a hand in creating (even unconsciously) almost consumed him feels like a good commentary on the self-defeating nature of evil.
Frodo boarding the White Ship leaving Middle Earth for Valinor at the end of The Return of the King. Doesn't matter how many times I've read it (dozens and dozens), doesn't matter whether the Undying Lands mean he's immortal or it's more like heaven and he's dead (Sam's vision makes me lean toward the latter), I always burst into tears. The overall tableau is wrenching. And grey. What is it about grey and LOTR?!?
"Then Frodo kissed Merry and Pippin, and last of all Sam, and went aboard; and the sails were drawn up, and the wind blew, and slowly the ship slipped away down the long grey firth; and the light of the glass of Galadriel that Frodo bore glimmered and was lost. And the ship went out into the High Sea and passed on into the West, until at last on a night of rain Frodo smelled a sweet fragrance on the air and heard the sound of singing that came over the water. And then it seemed to him that as in his dream in the house of Bombadil, the grey rain-curtain turned all to silver glass and was rolled back, and he beheld white shores and beyond them a far green country under a swift sunrise. But to Sam the evening deepened to darkness as he stood at the Haven; and as he looked at the grey sea he saw only a shadow on the waters that was soon lost in the West. There still he stood far into the night, hearing only the sigh and murmur of the waves on the shores of Middle-earth, and the sound of them sank deep into his heart. Beside him stood Merry and Pippin, and they were silent. At last the three companions turned away, and never again looking back they rode slowly homewards; and they spoke no word to one another until they came back to the Shire, but each had great comfort in his friends on the long grey road."
That's a beautiful quote and this part is especially lovely:
There's something really magical about "bittersweet endings" for me in fiction. I think it's something about finding the beauty in something finite -- like the finiteness of a story, relationships, places or even ideas. The entirety of Tolkien's Legendarium is just saturated with the sense that everything is inevitably on a course towards diminishment. A sad, but beautiful farewell and denouement.
I'm struggling to find the quote, but I think it's from Fellowship where it's explained that Frodo's quest is itself the ending of elves on Middle-Earth. If Frodo fails, obviously great evil will destroy all that is good on Middle-Earth, but even if he succeeds, the power of the rings will be broken and places like Lothlórien will fade and be forgotten. The "magic" of the world is leaking away and no matter what all elves will be called to the sea. I think Legolas is specifically warned against seeing the sea with his own eyes as the calling will come to him. Inevitably he does see the ocean -- and from then on, he has this pressure or tug calling him to the West and across the sea.
While Frodo doesn't "die" when he journeys to Valinor, it is certainly a kind of death. A removal from this world. While for him, the journey into the West is literal, it is a journey each and every one of us will have to make one way or another, and so this parting quote reads to me as a way of making peace with endings and goodbyes.
Off topic, but have you read Lions of Al Rassan? I've read quite a bit of fantasy, but Lions and Watership Down are two that explore the range of emotions including loss and regret in ways that remind me in some ways of Tolkein. (I haven't yet read the remainder of Guy Gavriel Kay's work, but it is on my list because of how much I appreciate the story he wrote in Lions of Al Rassan.)
No, but it sounds good! Added to my reading list.
I always get the most emotional at the scene where Aragorn, Gimli and Legolas decide to hunt after the orcs that captured Merry and Pippin. It's the feeling of making a difference in the world, even when your plans failed.
I read The Hobbit in fourth grade for a book report. The Barrow Wights and subsequent Tom Bombadil will always be stuck in my mind
That's from the Fellowship of the Ring. Did you read the whole series?
Does one Whither while they wander?
Tom Effing Bombadil. Some real Bill Brasky vibes. Love it.
He slept with our wives and we THANKED him for it!
I got the a Lord of the Rings collection for Christmas when I was about the same age. It is, without a shadow of a doubt, the best Christmas gift I've ever received.
Tom Bombadil was such a funny fellow! I love the rescue in the Barrow Downs:
The "thumping and stamping" of the Barrow-wight is such a hilarious mental picture for me. I picture him waddling back carrying a mountain of treasure with a stupid grin on his face. Haha! Tom Bombadil doesn't care how bleak the situation is supposed to be; when he's around, the world is whimsy.
Do I have to pick one? Eowyn asking to be allowed to ride to war, her speech about her experience shut in with King Theoden and Grima, and then later the arc of her ride and her role in the battle is moving and satisfying. (sorry I don't have the book in front of me).
From the Hobbit Bilbo taunting and singing to the spiders in Mirkwood. Attercop is a word I will never forget since reading it as a child.
I was disgusted with what they did to the Hobbit with the movie version.
Edit, Tolkein was almost certainly familiar with the Song of Roland and the Chronicle of the Cid. I hear echoes of those chivalric tales in the quote you included in your post.
My favorite is definitely Finrod vs Sauron
I also like the one line after Fingolfin challenges Morgoth.
I have no idea how you'd adapt this in any other medium besides text, but a spell-song battle between these two is just awesome.
The thing that I always adore about that speech is
“Fell” is such superb writing. Tolkien had such a love of language that he could find the perfect word. I wonder if it is somehow related to William Empson’s concept of misreading poetry
There’s a depth to it which amazes.
Luthien going up against Sauron and casually defeating him after he’s been shown to be nearly unstoppable is a high point.
However, my personal favourite part of Tolkien’s writings is the Ainulindalë. It’s just such a tour de force of creative, thoughtful world building. The metaphor of the music and the discussion of free will is just a bonus!
Oh, I have so many! The ones where sentence brevity has a lot of impact:
Such a really great way to build anticipation, hit you with the climax, and leave you reeling from the awe of the scene -- all in one paragraph.
The poetic repetition of the gaze upon the Trees and the Silmaril is poignant. But what really struck about me in this scene is how much longer it dwells on the titles and accomplishments of Thingol, while the actual passage about his death ("and slew him as he stood") is incredibly short. Thingol was at the height of his hubris -- and it only took a moment to cut him down. The death itself was enough to take me aback; beyond that initial shock, if you re-read that paragraph more and more, the more you see how beautifully crafted it is.
Then the ones that simply had a profound emotional effect on me:
One of the fan-favorite scenes, surely. "And Morgoth came." is once again a sentence with so much impact for its brevity. This particular scene that follows it is one of my favorites: the Enemy, a towering shadow. But Fingolfin gleams as a star beneath it still. Fingolfin was supposedly driven here by despair, so it's so profound how this scene evokes so much hope.
My single favorite passage. There is such an ache in "And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them?" You get the feeling that life and death are not matters humans should be governing at all.
galadriel giving gimli 3 locks of hair
https://scifi.stackexchange.com/questions/27210/is-there-a-hidden-significance-behind-the-fact-galadriel-gave-3-hairs-to-gimli-i
Birthday party scene in the shire without a doubt https://youtu.be/s2sVMLr1fDg