Digital note-taking system?
background: I've been reading nonfiction a bunch recently, and I take notes on most books that I read, either writing in the margins or in a notebook. I really like writing in margins but (a) if it's a pretty hardcover I feel bad about it, (b) it means I can't check out library books, and (c) I am reading too much nonfiction and running out of shelf space so I need to switch to a mix of library and digital lol.
I also want my notes to be somewhat multimedia - e.g. links to wikipedia, pasting in relevant images (e.g. maps) without relying on my awful art skills, etc. I do NOT want to type my notes, I want to handwrite.
I have used OneNote a lot on a touchscreen monitor for e.g. notes during Advent of Code, scratch paper for puzzles, etc. I like OneNote a lot and I would be happy to use this for the software, but I don't have my heart set on it if there's something else that works similarly. I do want a tabbed navigation like OneNote has so that e.g. I can have a page of abbreviations, a page with a timeline, a page with a list of important names, etc, for a history book
I have also used iPads as scratch paper before, but not for dedicated note taking. It seems fine-ish but I'm not sure how it would do with inserting pictures etc, and not sure what other software there is for note taking available. I would also like to be able to access my notes on my Windows PC, so not sure if iOS is the best option?
One other concern is I want whatever it is to be easy to hold while I also have a (possibly large) book in my lap.
Does anyone do notes like this? Do you have a setup you like?
Obsidian is okay but IDK how good its syncing is. OneNote is a solid program that is available for Android, iPad, iPhone, and Windows. You may have to pay for the sync feature but, given that you already like the program, I don't see a reason to change. Just learn about exporting options in case you wish to change or Microsoft discontinue the product in the future.
Obsidian has a paid sync service but a preferable solution might be Obsidian Git. It uses a remote git repo to back up your vault automatically.
Remotely Save should work a lot better for most people, connects to your main cloud storage, also has the ability to enable E2EE.
Git sync on mobile always seemed to fail for me, or have some strange issues, Remotely Save is near instant. So I can type on my PC, and seconds later it will sync to my phone.
Didn't get the mobile part ; you may be right, I wasn't able to set it up myself on mobile, only on desktop. OP, listen to this user over me.
oh you can get onenote on iOS? I guess that makes sense but I sort of assumed you couldn't. So OneNote & iPad you think would work well?
Yeah, I use it a lot with my iPad Pro and it is pretty good experience.
fantastic, do you know offhand the pricing model if I want to be able to sync to my desktop onenote?
Pretty sure it’s free.
I think so.
https://apps.apple.com/us/app/microsoft-onenote/id410395246
OneNote works to varying degrees on most (all?) devices. OneNote for Windows has the most features, and works very well on a Windows tablet with stylus (and BT keyboard with trackpoint or trackpad). To really organize your notes well you need the Windows version as it allows you to create sub-pages within your notebooks, which I haven't seen on the iOS and Android versions (it might be available on the web based version, can't remember). The sub-pages are helpful because you can create empty parent pages as page section dividers without creating actual new sections, which helps cut down on your use of section tabs and individual notebooks.
You can sync your notes to Microsoft's cloud (for free I think?), and they have a very hard to subcribe to subscription (they keep trying to upsell to more expensive services) called Microsoft 365 Basic for 1.99 USD/month that gives you 100 GB more OneDrive space.
The problem I have found with most other "note" taking apps is that they seem to be designed with a focus on typed notes over handwritten...which I do not really like. I strongly believe there is something about actually hand writing notes that helps commit information to memory better. I also feel that organizing one's notes manually creates a better sense of where the information is, rather than solely relying on tags and search features.
The only other app I have seen that seems somewhat close to OneNote is Goodnotes. However the UI seems less compact, and with less granularity. I've never used it though, only seen people using it.
are sub-pages the tabs on the right side? The organization hierarchy I want is 1 notebook with all book notes, each book is a section (tabs across the top & showing in the left sidebar, on the desktop app at least) and each kind of notes is the tabs that go down the right side (one for glossary, one for timeline, etc)
but I'm not sure if subpages is one of these things or something else.
yes!!!! this is why I want to handwrite too
It sounds like you are describing the old OneNote...I think OneNote 2016 (they keep renaming everything). I am more familiar with OneNote for Windows 11 (10? I dunno the naming is ridiculous and always changing).
Basically you have notebooks, sections, and pages. With the desktop version you can also create sub pages, which are regular pages (and show up in the pages list) that are tabbed over slightly. If you have a page that has sub-pages it gets a little > which can be clicked to collapse/expand any sub-pages below the parent page. It makes it easier to organize as you don't need to make a lot of sections, when a page with sub-pages would work just as well (or better).
oooh yes I am still on windows 10 and using an older OneNote. boo, every time they make changes it gets worse somehow, I still miss when it didn't have a ribbon
ok I'm going to put onenote on my phone, just to see how it looks, and that's the same user flow I could expect on iPad?
OneNote for iOS should look pretty much the same anywhere, same for Android. It's Windows where they have 2-3 different versions 😅
Ok I installed it and right away it created a default notebook <my name>'s Notebook. I hate this, if I can't delete it it's a permanent dealbreaker. I changed the default in settings, logged into OneDrive in my browser and deleted the notebook there, and then refreshed my phone, but that notebook is still there. Is there a way I can get rid of this?
edit: never mind, it's gone now, I guess it took a few minutes to sync. This is still an awful first experience, I'm kind of turned off of this now
The sync can be kinda laggy in general, especially to the mobile apps, but usually everything sorts itself out. You should be able to delete anything you want, no need to keep the default stuff.
I would say test it out for a week, it takes some getting used to, but if you still don't like it maybe try out Goodnotes. I think Goodnotes works better on iOS devices, but not sure.
Regarding Obsidian: as @drannex said, Remotely Save works flawlessly if you're already paying for backup somewhere else (e.g., dropbox, backblaze, or your own self-hosted solution). It's just a bit painful to set-up.
Otherwise the official solution (Obsidian Sync) starts at "only" $4/mo, though it doesn't offer much (1 GB storage, 5 MB max file size).
One of the biggest pros for Obsidian is in my opinion the open system. Sure the app itself is closed source but all your notes and stuff are in the end just markdown files in folders. So, even if Obsidian will enshittify in the future, they are not able to hold your notes hostage. Also, it makes interacting with these files incredibly easy. OneNote's format is open too but a lot more complex than simple markdown files. (I think the whole Office Open XML format specification is over 6000 pages.)
Which for reference, you can use OneDrive with Remotely Save and get 5GB free, E2EE encryption, and no max file size limit.
Or you can support Obsidian, which is cool too.
I use the official sync for syncing, because it's damn near instant and has never failed (and saved my ass once when I accidentally overwrote something and I could grab an older version).
I use Remotely Save in push-only mode as a backup to Backblaze B2.
Edit:posted as new instead of reply
Don't know if this is the exact thing for you, but I've also started to migrate all my world building projects from the spaghetti excel, docss and books to obsidian.md.
It might be worth a shot because a lot of history reads to me like a bunch or TTRPG players revolting against the GM.
But seriously, the reason it works so well for me is that the foundation is still rich notes in folder hierarchies. But you can throw on tags and groups to make connections which you can visualize in mind maps. And there's a sort of sticky note canvas that let's you organize and group new information before committing it to notes.
Most importantly it's free and on local storage, with the ability to cloud backup. Phone interface is messy but desktop and tablet is fine.
If you give it a look, take some time for the tutorials and templates. Lots of little tricks to smooth out your work flow.
If you're fine with spending money on it, have you considered a dedicated note-taking device? Something like the Supernote (reMarkable is also popular, but it's way more overpriced and barely has any useful features unlike the Supernote). Although I'm not sure if that really fits you since you want to paste images from a web browser. If that's important for you, then yes, an iPad with something like OneNote would be a great option.
Just received my Supernote Nomad a week ago and have been very satisfied with it! Build quality is great (the crystal version looks so much cooler in person), screen is very nice to write on and the software has been excellent. Great as both a note taking device and e-reader. Very simple to get your notes off the device too, heck you would be perfectly fine never connecting it to the internet.
I actually love the idea of an eInk tablet, and I wish that were the right solution but yeah having maps in my notes is important to me when I'm reading European history books
Supernote runs on Android and AFAIK you can sideload third-party apps onto it. The company also said they'll introduce an official app store later this year. So I guess there is/will be a way to have map screenshots in your notes
I use the Boox Note Air 3c a lot and does everything you need. It's full android so had Google maps etc on it natively. The colour is nice, very muted, but makes a change from grey scale.
You can get it on Amazon with all its returns policy, so kind of try before you buy ....
I did get the Kindle scribe pen to go with it though, I need the eraser function!
Edit: It also runs onenote
how is the refresh rate? is it comfy to handwrite?
Yes, really good for writing. Hands down better than an iPad or android tablet. It feels like pen and paper. The refresh rate is very adjustable, IE you can watch YouTube on it for instance.
Fantastic, thank you!! I like that eInk seems less distracting than a full tablet computer so it won't tempt me to look at the internet any time I write something down.
Sorry two other questions, How is the UX for transferring epubs to it for annotation? And, how does the UX feel for e.g. using the index to look up other references to some entity that's listed in the index? I'm looking at the product page and I see it has split screens, which is cool - I'd like to be able to keep the index always-open in one side, and then if i need to look something up, use the index to click to different page numbers, and then when I'm done click a "return to current location" thing the way kindle has.
is this possible to do? (will epub files even be compatible with an index?)
Hi there! I really do prefer e-ink for note taking, its replaced my stack of papers and books immediately. And you can search for things, so makes it really easy to find notes you've made ages ago. That includes hand written text too, but that takes a bit long but does find things.
I don't, personally, annotate epubs but it is possible. PDFs are also good to annotate, and you can insert blank pages to assist.
Reddit has a r/Onyx_Boox and r/eink sub-reddits that can definitely give you more answers than me.
I would also recommend watching some of https://www.youtube.com/@KitBetts-Masters videos on the Note air 3c, there are lots like:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4MEPtzsWPI (note taking highlights - 10m)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otSxY4XR7I8 (in depth - 50m)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96C40EM1CL8 (user guide)
In fact, he has a load of comparisons etc to help make an e-ink note taking purchase easier for you!
Also look at https://www.youtube.com/@MyDeepGuide videos on e-ink note taking.
thank you!!! I'll check these out!
hi! okay I bought (with a possibility I might return it) a boox note air, and I'm reading a paper in it rn. I have to say, this feels incredible to hold and use. But I am very concerned primarily about 1 thing, which is highlighting. I've searched a bit about this too and apparently it just handles highlighting very poorly, but is there anything I can do about this? Some other reader app I could use? Or how does the "make another layer" trick work when you are reading a pdf? Also, is there any way I can get more colors? ATM I am highlighting a physical book with like 8 different colors of actual physical highlighter, and I've had to reuse a couple in different contexts lol
I'm also concerned about how difficult it might be to use an index actively, but one thing at a time & that's gonna be a problem no matter what I use. Maybe physical book from the library & read + annotate an epub tbh - are there voice commands I could use to better deal with the index thing?
EDIT:
One other question: So atm I'm reading a pdf, and it has a certain amount of margin. One thing I was really looking forward to was having infinite margin for writing comments around the side of the text, but I can't see any way to do this? It just cuts off my handwriting if I try to go out of bounds?okay, I see this may be a pdf-specific thing and I can indeed do what I want in epubs. Mostly I'll be reading epubs so this isn't a big dealOkay also two other question:
Also, I am having a lot of trouble turning the pages with finger input disabled. I really want to disable finger input so that I can rest my hand on the screen comfortably, but I can't get the "AI" page-turn gestures to work at the bottom of the screen?figured this one out! I was trying to draw a line, not tapRecently this has been announced as well: https://daylightcomputer.com/
$730?! That's more than twice the price of a Remarkable, which I already find expensive.
Just so you know, Oxford notebooks have paper notebooks that have markers on the corners of the page.
And these markers are used by Scribzee which you can connect to Evernote and scan + digitize your pages.
I haven't tried the app myself yet but was thinking about doing so when I have a bit more time.
Edit: oh and more importantly, the paper is fountainpen friendly! (that's why I got the notebooks actually)