22 votes

8GB Raspberry Pi 4 on sale now at $75

26 comments

  1. sqew
    Link
    One interesting bit from the link, located at the end, is that they now have a beta of a 64-bit version of Raspbian (which is apparently being renamed to Raspberry Pi OS). Should be useful for...

    One interesting bit from the link, located at the end, is that they now have a beta of a 64-bit version of Raspbian (which is apparently being renamed to Raspberry Pi OS). Should be useful for anyone looking to do dev work on a Pi and deploy it to 64-bit ARM machines in the cloud, etc.

    13 votes
  2. [3]
    AugustusFerdinand
    Link
    While 8GB and 64bit is undoubtedly a huge upgrade to these boards, I am fearful of the inevitable lazy coding that will accompany it. By having limited resources programmers are forced to keep...

    While 8GB and 64bit is undoubtedly a huge upgrade to these boards, I am fearful of the inevitable lazy coding that will accompany it. By having limited resources programmers are forced to keep their code "clean" and not be a resource hog and so generally better coding occurs. When given the option a lot of programmers will happily, and typically unconsciously, use all available resources without regard to other processes.

    That said, I know that while everyone should strive for clean coding and preferably learn to do so from the start it isn't necessarily the case and I have gone back to old code years after the fact and found inefficiencies in my own work. So a lower barrier to entry by having more resources available opens the door for more people to learn to code complex items.

    5 votes
    1. [2]
      aphoenix
      Link Parent
      I don't think we should be trying to cater to people who are bad at programming. While it's true that if you limit their resources that bad programmers will have to deal with the hardware...

      By having limited resources programmers are forced to keep their code "clean" and not be a resource hog and so generally better coding occurs. When given the option a lot of programmers will happily, and typically unconsciously, use all available resources without regard to other processes.

      I don't think we should be trying to cater to people who are bad at programming. While it's true that if you limit their resources that bad programmers will have to deal with the hardware limitations in some way, it's not true that you'll get better code out of it. It'll just be bad in a different way.

      The quality of the tool and the quality of the artisan do not have an inverse relation like a lot of people seem to believe.

      6 votes
      1. bloup
        Link Parent
        On the contrary, a lot of the most nightmare code to deal with is literally only nightmarish because it relies on some kind of arcane trick that was necessitated by hardware limitations in the...

        On the contrary, a lot of the most nightmare code to deal with is literally only nightmarish because it relies on some kind of arcane trick that was necessitated by hardware limitations in the first place.

        13 votes
  3. [8]
    acdw
    Link
    When I finally do build a PC, I think I want to use a RPi and franken-connect it.

    When I finally do build a PC, I think I want to use a RPi and franken-connect it.

    2 votes
    1. [7]
      sqew
      Link Parent
      What exactly do you mean by "franken-connect it"? Sounds interesting.

      What exactly do you mean by "franken-connect it"? Sounds interesting.

      2 votes
      1. [3]
        acdw
        Link Parent
        Oh I just meant 3-d print a case, then connect monitor, mouse, keyboard, etc. with off-the-shelf cables and stuff. Now that I'm thinking about it its' a pretty nonsensical thing to say! Since it's...

        Oh I just meant 3-d print a case, then connect monitor, mouse, keyboard, etc. with off-the-shelf cables and stuff. Now that I'm thinking about it its' a pretty nonsensical thing to say! Since it's a single-board computer it's all pretty much .... connected.

        2 votes
        1. [2]
          sqew
          Link Parent
          Ah, ok. Builds like that are still pretty cool. You should definitely show all of us around here if you ever do it!

          Ah, ok. Builds like that are still pretty cool. You should definitely show all of us around here if you ever do it!

          2 votes
      2. [3]
        cfabbro
        (edited )
        Link Parent
        There are lots of ways you can Frankenstein an RPi into essentially a full blown PC. ETA Prime has a bunch of examples on his channel, if you're interested. E.g. Zyvhur K100 Multitop First Look...

        There are lots of ways you can Frankenstein an RPi into essentially a full blown PC. ETA Prime has a bunch of examples on his channel, if you're interested. E.g.
        Zyvhur K100 Multitop First Look Raspberry Pi Mechanical Keyboard Case!
        Nex Dock 2 Review Turn Your Phone Tablet Or Raspberry Pi Into a Laptop!

        1 vote
        1. sqew
          Link Parent
          Yeah, I'd seen some stuff like that before. I remember a cool little lunchbox "laptop" someone built with a Pi a few years back. Since @acdw mentioned building a PC, was mostly just wondering if...

          Yeah, I'd seen some stuff like that before. I remember a cool little lunchbox "laptop" someone built with a Pi a few years back. Since @acdw mentioned building a PC, was mostly just wondering if they were planning on something interesting with a typical PC build and then linking a Pi in somehow.

          2 votes
        2. acdw
          Link Parent
          Oh I'm going to have to check these out!

          Oh I'm going to have to check these out!

          2 votes
  4. [13]
    unknown user
    (edited )
    Link
    This is probably the thread to ask: Is it viable to run a small-time server on a Raspberry Pi? All I need is to host static assets, like a website. If so, what's the power requirements for that?...

    This is probably the thread to ask:

    Is it viable to run a small-time server on a Raspberry Pi? All I need is to host static assets, like a website.

    If so, what's the power requirements for that? How much cooling does it need? How much noise does it make?

    EDIT: thanks to everyone for the replies. I've reconsidered my desire to use RaspPi for a home server, at least as far as Internet-facing hosting is concerned.

    2 votes
    1. [5]
      stu2b50
      Link Parent
      Yes, but also no. From the PI's perspective, it's fully capable. I would recommend just going on Amazon and buying one of the complete kits which come with a power supply + fan + container. It's a...

      Yes, but also no. From the PI's perspective, it's fully capable. I would recommend just going on Amazon and buying one of the complete kits which come with a power supply + fan + container. It's a low tdp arm chip, it shouldn't matter that much.

      However, what's the bigger bottleneck is your network, and why I personally wouldn't recommend it.

      Renting a VPS from digitalocean or linode cost about $5/month for the lowest tier, and keeps you from dealing with things like:

      • typically poor upload speeds on consumer internet plans

      • potentially (though unlikely) dealing with attacks on your networks (if your website on your pi gets ddosed, your network is being ddosed!)

      • configuring your router to port forward and getting your firewall to allow inbound connections

      • making sure it's consistently up

      There are the old horror stories of worm attacks on apache day 0 exploits. If that happens to a rented VPS, that's their problem, with their entire paid IT department.

      Likely? It's actually kinda hard to estimate, worm attacks just port scan and check for the exploit on every IP they can find after all, it's not that unlikely they'll try you.

      5 votes
      1. [4]
        Deimos
        (edited )
        Link Parent
        Also worth mentioning that a lot of ISPs won't even allow incoming traffic on port 80/443 (HTTP/HTTPS) to reach their residential customers. They just completely block it, and that makes it...

        Also worth mentioning that a lot of ISPs won't even allow incoming traffic on port 80/443 (HTTP/HTTPS) to reach their residential customers. They just completely block it, and that makes it impossible to host a site. Sometimes you can host on a non-standard port, but that's not really an option if you want random people to visit it.

        So @ThatFanficGuy before buying a Pi, you should definitely make sure the traffic wouldn't be blocked. It would also be a good idea to check your ISP's terms to see if they prohibit hosting a site. Some do, and then even if it's possible to host a site, you could still be risking getting kicked off your service if they notice significant site traffic.

        3 votes
        1. [2]
          unknown user
          Link Parent
          O_o That is simply not good for an ISP.

          It would also be a good idea to check your ISP's terms to see if they prohibit hosting a site.

          O_o

          That is simply not good for an ISP.

          4 votes
          1. acdw
            Link Parent
            I am 100000000% in agreement with you, but that's what mine does. I haven't been able to even set up a homeserver using weird ports through a proxy on the open internet. It sucks.

            I am 100000000% in agreement with you, but that's what mine does. I haven't been able to even set up a homeserver using weird ports through a proxy on the open internet. It sucks.

            3 votes
        2. acdw
          Link Parent
          You could host a Gemini site.... :P

          You could host a Gemini site.... :P

          2 votes
    2. sqew
      Link Parent
      I've got a Pi 3B that I spin up periodically for various little projects. Had it running PiHole for a while, etc. I think that, if your network is reasonably fast and your static assets would...

      I've got a Pi 3B that I spin up periodically for various little projects. Had it running PiHole for a while, etc. I think that, if your network is reasonably fast and your static assets would never get hit with too much traffic, it'd do just fine in that role. Although, as @stu2b50 pointed out, a small VPS from DO or Linode is pretty cheap and has a lot of advantages over a Pi on your local network.

      2 votes
    3. [4]
      jrmyr
      Link Parent
      I hosted a static website on a Pi for a couple of years. To make things as light as possible on my home network I hosted most images elsewhere, and I used Cloudflare. It's certainly viable. Since...

      I hosted a static website on a Pi for a couple of years. To make things as light as possible on my home network I hosted most images elsewhere, and I used Cloudflare. It's certainly viable.

      Since then I've taken to only authoring and generating my static sites on my Pi, then rcloning them to my Fastmail account for hosting. I prefer it this way because I'd rather tinker with something locally, but host it elsewhere if possible, for a variety of reasons.

      You can passively cool a Raspberry Pi 4 with a good heatsink, or more commonly an aluminum enclosure that contacts the processor with a thermal pad that becomes the heatsink. Enclosures like the Argon One feature both passive and active cooling, and allow you to specify what percentage of power the fan will operate at under specific loads. The fans are typically very small, and somewhat whiny, but not loud. I don't really notice mine running over the volume of the television and they're on the same shelf. As for power, I use an 18 watt USB-C wall wart. Before I switched my Pi over to running off of an SSD I just powered it via my router's USB port.

      2 votes
      1. [3]
        sqew
        Link Parent
        Had never heard of the Argon One before; sweet little enclosure. $25 isn't too expensive either. Thanks for linking it!

        Had never heard of the Argon One before; sweet little enclosure. $25 isn't too expensive either. Thanks for linking it!

        1. [2]
          jrmyr
          Link Parent
          It's a great enclosure if you're going to use the Pi as a wee server or something that doesn't require a ton of physical tinkering. The case actually makes proper contact with the board and does a...

          It's a great enclosure if you're going to use the Pi as a wee server or something that doesn't require a ton of physical tinkering. The case actually makes proper contact with the board and does a decent job of passive cooling, and the fan does function well too. Also, if you're putting it somewhere like where I have mine, next to an Apple TV in a media cabinet, having all the ports relocated to the back is pretty nice. It's definitely a step up in quality over much of what you'll find elsewhere. I also use Argon's 18w USB-C power supply. Can't speak to any of their other products however.

          1. sqew
            Link Parent
            I definitely like how sleek it is. If you're using in it some scenario where it's super visible and you're not a fan of bare PCB, it's a nice aesthetic jump up.

            I definitely like how sleek it is. If you're using in it some scenario where it's super visible and you're not a fan of bare PCB, it's a nice aesthetic jump up.

    4. stickman
      Link Parent
      Of all the things I have read it can handle it pretty well, now that raspi 4 is gigabit and doesn't have a shared BUS. The only think I have read is that sd cards can die, I have read that is...

      Of all the things I have read it can handle it pretty well, now that raspi 4 is gigabit and doesn't have a shared BUS.

      The only think I have read is that sd cards can die, I have read that is because of bad power or they simple just die. Other than that I think it can be used without problems.

      In my experience I never had a sdcard dyeing on me, but I never have a long runtime so I think it's normal I have a different experience.

      1 vote
  5. moocow1452
    Link
    https://www.tomshardware.com/news/raspberry-pi-4-8gb-tested I understand that Media Servers and Virtual Machines are the primary use case for "throw more RAM at it" since the Pi and it's software...

    https://www.tomshardware.com/news/raspberry-pi-4-8gb-tested

    I understand that Media Servers and Virtual Machines are the primary use case for "throw more RAM at it" since the Pi and it's software is already pretty optimized, but is there any really mind-blowing stuff you could get up to with 8 Gigs that wouldn't be possible or practical with 4?

    1 vote