Not too surprising in my opinion, MMOs are among the most difficult game genres to produce a high-quality, long-lasting product in. Making something that’s also more than a me-too WoW clone while...
Not too surprising in my opinion, MMOs are among the most difficult game genres to produce a high-quality, long-lasting product in. Making something that’s also more than a me-too WoW clone while appealing to modern audiences is that much more challenging.
Too many MMO and MMO-like projects are getting burned by overexposure, and there's only so much teasing the audience can get before anxiety turns to anger. So it's absolutely a good idea to avoid...
Too many MMO and MMO-like projects are getting burned by overexposure, and there's only so much teasing the audience can get before anxiety turns to anger. So it's absolutely a good idea to avoid that.
I'm only worried about how long will League of Legends remain a strong enough brand to support a full-blown AAA MMORPG. We may be looking at a decade of development right there. Will LoL still bring a huge audience ten years from now?
I just checked, and WoW was released one year after Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne. I don't think that was a coincidence.
I feel like Riot has made League more of a "brand" than Warcraft was in 2004. You have games in multiple genres, mobile games, some single player RPGs, and a TV show. Plus, their esports are also...
I feel like Riot has made League more of a "brand" than Warcraft was in 2004. You have games in multiple genres, mobile games, some single player RPGs, and a TV show. Plus, their esports are also as popular as they've ever been.
If any IP retains it's popularity in 10 years, League can definitely do it
I think a couple other reasons why WCIII/TFT/WoW were in such close proximity was also the make it easier to bridge the story from the RTS to the MMO (more difficult with the MMO alone) and to be...
I think a couple other reasons why WCIII/TFT/WoW were in such close proximity was also the make it easier to bridge the story from the RTS to the MMO (more difficult with the MMO alone) and to be able to share dev resources between the two (when WoW dev started in 1999 it was initially built on the WCIII engine and lots of assets are common to both).
Franchise and company relevance are important too though, no question.
Whelp that's some pretty bad news.. I was really hoping it was further in development. I've been desperate for a new addiction as WoW no longer scratches the itch and New World, while great to...
Whelp that's some pretty bad news.. I was really hoping it was further in development. I've been desperate for a new addiction as WoW no longer scratches the itch and New World, while great to begin with, in no way held up in the long run. The former I still play for a month or two per year, and I will always be checking out new expansions - the latter I haven't played since before its expansions came out but it doesn't seem to be that different from when it launched.
This attitude towards it seems pretty great though (corpo-speak or not):
“We don’t believe you all want an MMO that you’ve played before with a Runeterra coat of paint; to truly do justice to the potential of Runeterra and to meet the incredibly high expectations of players around the world, we need to do something that truly feels like a significant evolution of the genre,” Merrill said. “This is a huge challenge, but one that our team of deeply passionate MMO players and game development veterans is incredibly motivated to pursue.”
I have never been interested in League of Legends, but I always liked the art style and really loved the lore and world when watching Arcane. So an MMO set in that universe is exciting. Besides, they also seem like one of the only companies large enough - and willing - to take on an MMO, games the scale of which are nearly incomprehensible and very rarely made nowadays because of the giant investment required. Glad that it's still happening though, because whatever Ghostcrawler gets up to is extremely under wraps too to the point that I'm not sure I'll even bother following his new project.
Seriously though, ever since the mid 00's, MMO's have always been my favorite genre. No other kind of game is as immersive as them! Hopefully it's not going to be a whole decade of development time though, oof.
The lore is interesting and works well for a series like Arcane, but it's as deep as a puddle. It really hinges on the shared backgrounds of the important champions to be anything at all. Titmouse...
The lore is interesting and works well for a series like Arcane, but it's as deep as a puddle. It really hinges on the shared backgrounds of the important champions to be anything at all. Titmouse made Piltover and Zaun look fantastic, but the lore comes through from Viktor, Vi, Jayce, and the likes, not the cities, history, and worldbuilding.
Not saying it was ever a good story beat, but as soon as they started sanitizing the "megling genocide" you could see that their lore was never going to be anything but approachable. An MMO that doesn't explore lore beyond "approachable" is going to be boring.
I'm curious to know why you think no other type of game is as immersive as an MMO. I feel the complete opposite; I'm constantly reminded I'm in a game because of stuff like the UI.
I'm curious to know why you think no other type of game is as immersive as an MMO. I feel the complete opposite; I'm constantly reminded I'm in a game because of stuff like the UI.
Just my opinion/personal experience. I grew up with them so maybe it's because of how used to the UI elements I am. Or the size of the worlds. Endlessly huge when you're a low level. Not really...
Just my opinion/personal experience. I grew up with them so maybe it's because of how used to the UI elements I am. Or the size of the worlds. Endlessly huge when you're a low level. Not really sure, I guess I can't quite put my finger on it
I don't have much hope for any mmorpg anymore. I think these games need to be gigantic cash cows for the business to have any interest in them, and in order for them to be cash cows, they have to...
I don't have much hope for any mmorpg anymore. I think these games need to be gigantic cash cows for the business to have any interest in them, and in order for them to be cash cows, they have to be as average as possible. They have to cast that extremely wide net in order to bring in as many players as possible to satisfy the business.
But that doesn't make a very good game. Great games are unique. Great games are paradigm shifts. Great games are artistic. All of these features are extremely hard to integrate while also making the game accessible to as many people as possible.
It is unlikely for MMORPGs to regain the popularity of the early 2000s, but it is entirely possible for interesting takes on the genre to keep a sustainable population. The recently announced...
It is unlikely for MMORPGs to regain the popularity of the early 2000s, but it is entirely possible for interesting takes on the genre to keep a sustainable population. The recently announced Brighter Shores may eventually become an example of that.
To accomplish that, it is necessary to understand that, while "MMORPG" is technically an acronym, its semantics go way beyond the mere expansion of its letters. In practice, MMORPG is a word derived from an acronym. As such, its meaning is fluid, rich, and mutable.
To start with, no one ever defined an actual numerical value that embodies the notion of "Massive", nor what "Massive" refers to. I would argue that "Massive" does not mean any specific number of players or world length. It is rather a feeling, a sensation of breadth and immersion in a world that is both external to our own and shared with other players. In my opinion, compared to other online games, the distinguishing feature of an MMORPG is having a shared open world as the default experience, allowing for random encounters and emergent gameplay. That is not to say that is the only defining characteristic of MMORPGs, but rather that it is a central one that is important to highlight. Unlike lobby games, inhabiting MMORPG worlds should take no prior effort in grouping and coordination. They're serendipity-generating machines.
With that in mind, it becomes easier to envision the role MMORPGs may have in the future. They don't need mega-servers, nor do they need worlds to the scale of World of Warcraft. They must only feel massive, social, and immersive. We may never see another Stormwind, as it was built for another era. There's nothing sadder than an empty MMORPG city. As with everything else about these games, in 2024, the urbanism and geography of MMORPGs must take smaller populations into account. They may not command the same budgets, but that doesn't mean they're going anywhere. From 1999 to 2012, MMORPGs went through a bubble. They are still desired games, but the market has changed. Everything is online, and MMORPGs are not that special anymore.
I don't think that's a fair assessment. What happened is that when WoW became big, there were a lot of clones; like with any set of clones, most of these were surface level derivatives. That's to...
I don't think that's a fair assessment. What happened is that when WoW became big, there were a lot of clones; like with any set of clones, most of these were surface level derivatives. That's to be expected, and fine - they'll be culled soon enough.
FF14 has one of if not the best stories in a final fantasy game.
FFXIV might have a good story, but it has very middling gameplay. If you compare the amount of mechanics to FFXI (its mmo predecessor), for example, the game has been stripped to its bare bones....
FFXIV might have a good story, but it has very middling gameplay. If you compare the amount of mechanics to FFXI (its mmo predecessor), for example, the game has been stripped to its bare bones. No longer are there different types of damage (Slashing, piercing, blunt, etc.) or different types of magic damage (dark, every element, holy, etc). No longer are there different types of enfeebling effects both for players and NPCS and requisite spells to cure them. You no longer work with your teammates to create skillchains and magic bursts to more effectively take down enemies. There is no careful management of enemies through CC - just wall to wall pulling and AoE'ing. There are no "jack of all trades" jobs - because everything has to fit a small, tightly bound niche so that the "instant action" aspects of the game can be easily fulfilled.
For brief moments, FFXIV seemed like it wanted to add in interesting mechanics - like the old buffing system from astrologian - but these ultimately get wiped out. Of course, the old buffing system wouldn't make sense in modern FFXIV, because they essentially removed all restrictions on TP and MP - but that's just another example of middling the game out. Over time, they have removed mechanics so that all that's left is avoiding fire on the floor and keeping up a personal rotation. The buffs are all boring 3% damage buffs - no more adding double attack, crit chance, or extra elemental damage. You're barely playing with your group - almost everything is personal. FFXIV actually falls far behind even WoW in terms of party interactions, since the healers are spending so much time spamming a couple damage spells at bosses.
FFXIV dancers would weep if they saw what their counterparts were able to do in FFXI. This was a job to buff your teammates with haste or aspir (almost never used, but was interesting to have the choice), setting up skillchains, using TP to heal or cleanse teammates - great when bosses would silence the healers, dealing damage, and providing out of combat buffs like movespeed. Now it's like, click on party member, make dance partner, congrats 3% extra damage. Resume playing solo. Who cares? That's not an interaction. It's boring.
"Instant action" i think is the crux of the issue. When i say these games are middling - what I mean is that these are really just action games with vestigial leveling systems included. And they're all designed to just hop in a dungeon in the random matchmaker with people you'll never see again, steamroll a dungeon without even thinking, then hop out. There are so few mechanics left in these games - this is why i tend to compare them to mobile games rather than the vast and expansive games they used to be.
Not too surprising in my opinion, MMOs are among the most difficult game genres to produce a high-quality, long-lasting product in. Making something that’s also more than a me-too WoW clone while appealing to modern audiences is that much more challenging.
Too many MMO and MMO-like projects are getting burned by overexposure, and there's only so much teasing the audience can get before anxiety turns to anger. So it's absolutely a good idea to avoid that.
I'm only worried about how long will League of Legends remain a strong enough brand to support a full-blown AAA MMORPG. We may be looking at a decade of development right there. Will LoL still bring a huge audience ten years from now?
I just checked, and WoW was released one year after Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne. I don't think that was a coincidence.
I feel like Riot has made League more of a "brand" than Warcraft was in 2004. You have games in multiple genres, mobile games, some single player RPGs, and a TV show. Plus, their esports are also as popular as they've ever been.
If any IP retains it's popularity in 10 years, League can definitely do it
I think a couple other reasons why WCIII/TFT/WoW were in such close proximity was also the make it easier to bridge the story from the RTS to the MMO (more difficult with the MMO alone) and to be able to share dev resources between the two (when WoW dev started in 1999 it was initially built on the WCIII engine and lots of assets are common to both).
Franchise and company relevance are important too though, no question.
Whelp that's some pretty bad news.. I was really hoping it was further in development. I've been desperate for a new addiction as WoW no longer scratches the itch and New World, while great to begin with, in no way held up in the long run. The former I still play for a month or two per year, and I will always be checking out new expansions - the latter I haven't played since before its expansions came out but it doesn't seem to be that different from when it launched.
This attitude towards it seems pretty great though (corpo-speak or not):
I have never been interested in League of Legends, but I always liked the art style and really loved the lore and world when watching Arcane. So an MMO set in that universe is exciting. Besides, they also seem like one of the only companies large enough - and willing - to take on an MMO, games the scale of which are nearly incomprehensible and very rarely made nowadays because of the giant investment required. Glad that it's still happening though, because whatever Ghostcrawler gets up to is extremely under wraps too to the point that I'm not sure I'll even bother following his new project.
Seriously though, ever since the mid 00's, MMO's have always been my favorite genre. No other kind of game is as immersive as them! Hopefully it's not going to be a whole decade of development time though, oof.
most League of Legends players will agree that the game itself is the worst part of League of Legends
And yet we all still choose to play it
The lore is interesting and works well for a series like Arcane, but it's as deep as a puddle. It really hinges on the shared backgrounds of the important champions to be anything at all. Titmouse made Piltover and Zaun look fantastic, but the lore comes through from Viktor, Vi, Jayce, and the likes, not the cities, history, and worldbuilding.
Not saying it was ever a good story beat, but as soon as they started sanitizing the "megling genocide" you could see that their lore was never going to be anything but approachable. An MMO that doesn't explore lore beyond "approachable" is going to be boring.
Confused. Did you mean Fortiche? Or is there something I'm missing?
I did, I misremembered. It's Fortiche.
Maybe Dune will be good!
I'm curious to know why you think no other type of game is as immersive as an MMO. I feel the complete opposite; I'm constantly reminded I'm in a game because of stuff like the UI.
Just my opinion/personal experience. I grew up with them so maybe it's because of how used to the UI elements I am. Or the size of the worlds. Endlessly huge when you're a low level. Not really sure, I guess I can't quite put my finger on it
I don't have much hope for any mmorpg anymore. I think these games need to be gigantic cash cows for the business to have any interest in them, and in order for them to be cash cows, they have to be as average as possible. They have to cast that extremely wide net in order to bring in as many players as possible to satisfy the business.
But that doesn't make a very good game. Great games are unique. Great games are paradigm shifts. Great games are artistic. All of these features are extremely hard to integrate while also making the game accessible to as many people as possible.
It is unlikely for MMORPGs to regain the popularity of the early 2000s, but it is entirely possible for interesting takes on the genre to keep a sustainable population. The recently announced Brighter Shores may eventually become an example of that.
To accomplish that, it is necessary to understand that, while "MMORPG" is technically an acronym, its semantics go way beyond the mere expansion of its letters. In practice, MMORPG is a word derived from an acronym. As such, its meaning is fluid, rich, and mutable.
To start with, no one ever defined an actual numerical value that embodies the notion of "Massive", nor what "Massive" refers to. I would argue that "Massive" does not mean any specific number of players or world length. It is rather a feeling, a sensation of breadth and immersion in a world that is both external to our own and shared with other players. In my opinion, compared to other online games, the distinguishing feature of an MMORPG is having a shared open world as the default experience, allowing for random encounters and emergent gameplay. That is not to say that is the only defining characteristic of MMORPGs, but rather that it is a central one that is important to highlight. Unlike lobby games, inhabiting MMORPG worlds should take no prior effort in grouping and coordination. They're serendipity-generating machines.
With that in mind, it becomes easier to envision the role MMORPGs may have in the future. They don't need mega-servers, nor do they need worlds to the scale of World of Warcraft. They must only feel massive, social, and immersive. We may never see another Stormwind, as it was built for another era. There's nothing sadder than an empty MMORPG city. As with everything else about these games, in 2024, the urbanism and geography of MMORPGs must take smaller populations into account. They may not command the same budgets, but that doesn't mean they're going anywhere. From 1999 to 2012, MMORPGs went through a bubble. They are still desired games, but the market has changed. Everything is online, and MMORPGs are not that special anymore.
I don't think that's a fair assessment. What happened is that when WoW became big, there were a lot of clones; like with any set of clones, most of these were surface level derivatives. That's to be expected, and fine - they'll be culled soon enough.
FF14 has one of if not the best stories in a final fantasy game.
FFXIV might have a good story, but it has very middling gameplay. If you compare the amount of mechanics to FFXI (its mmo predecessor), for example, the game has been stripped to its bare bones. No longer are there different types of damage (Slashing, piercing, blunt, etc.) or different types of magic damage (dark, every element, holy, etc). No longer are there different types of enfeebling effects both for players and NPCS and requisite spells to cure them. You no longer work with your teammates to create skillchains and magic bursts to more effectively take down enemies. There is no careful management of enemies through CC - just wall to wall pulling and AoE'ing. There are no "jack of all trades" jobs - because everything has to fit a small, tightly bound niche so that the "instant action" aspects of the game can be easily fulfilled.
For brief moments, FFXIV seemed like it wanted to add in interesting mechanics - like the old buffing system from astrologian - but these ultimately get wiped out. Of course, the old buffing system wouldn't make sense in modern FFXIV, because they essentially removed all restrictions on TP and MP - but that's just another example of middling the game out. Over time, they have removed mechanics so that all that's left is avoiding fire on the floor and keeping up a personal rotation. The buffs are all boring 3% damage buffs - no more adding double attack, crit chance, or extra elemental damage. You're barely playing with your group - almost everything is personal. FFXIV actually falls far behind even WoW in terms of party interactions, since the healers are spending so much time spamming a couple damage spells at bosses.
FFXIV dancers would weep if they saw what their counterparts were able to do in FFXI. This was a job to buff your teammates with haste or aspir (almost never used, but was interesting to have the choice), setting up skillchains, using TP to heal or cleanse teammates - great when bosses would silence the healers, dealing damage, and providing out of combat buffs like movespeed. Now it's like, click on party member, make dance partner, congrats 3% extra damage. Resume playing solo. Who cares? That's not an interaction. It's boring.
"Instant action" i think is the crux of the issue. When i say these games are middling - what I mean is that these are really just action games with vestigial leveling systems included. And they're all designed to just hop in a dungeon in the random matchmaker with people you'll never see again, steamroll a dungeon without even thinking, then hop out. There are so few mechanics left in these games - this is why i tend to compare them to mobile games rather than the vast and expansive games they used to be.