Oh man, so many feels about it. For context I spent the first 7 years of my professional career documenting endangered heritage in conflict zones. Whenever I talk about working with the Taliban or...
Exemplary
Oh man, so many feels about it. For context I spent the first 7 years of my professional career documenting endangered heritage in conflict zones. Whenever I talk about working with the Taliban or working with folks on Gaza this is that period.
Well informed but still a hot take, digital preservation does little to benefit tangible cultural heritage or the communities that support and protect it. I spent years dropping into areas, training local teams for a few weeks, documenting sites and leaving. Sometimes we had extended initiatives where I would revisit every six months for a few years but regardless the pattern was the same. Provide equipment and training to local group that doesn't plug in at all with their current workflows, have them document a set number of sites to meet our agreements, we get kudos and accolades from groups like the UN/USAid/NatGeo, data gets transferred back to the US to sit in an underground Iron Mountian tape archive, the equipment breaks so they can no longer document sites, the data they have is no longer up to date to function with new software, everything is non-functional and the group returns to their old methods of documentation (elevation drawings), the archive data become obsolete.
So in the end you end up with money flowing into US non-profits to create a data archive no one will ever use and locals at best learn new skills and can get out of the active conflict areas and at worst take them down a side track that never pans out.
NPR has called it digital colonialism, and I don't think they are too off the mark.
I don't disagree there. Although this repository is about more than just preserving cultural heritage as it is also an education tool like exemplified in the article. Having these 3d models...
Well informed but still a hot take, digital preservation does little to benefit tangible cultural heritage or the communities that support and protect it.
I don't disagree there. Although this repository is about more than just preserving cultural heritage as it is also an education tool like exemplified in the article.
For example, Digital Life, a non-profit that aims to preserve the heritage of life on Earth through creating and sharing high-quality and accurate 3D models of living organisms, has shared 152 of those 3D models on Sketchfab, which are used for research, education, and conservation.
Having these 3d models available might not benefit the communities directly. In some cases it isn't even about communities but other things (again like the models from the quote) and in other cases it can help in education and create overall awareness.
Having said that, there clearly is overlap as this falls in the same category of issues you list. The companies in control of the software, hardware, etc tend to move on over time, deprecating older things without too much thought. This is an issue for real world data that is brought into the digital real, but also is an issue for the preservation of digital native information that does not exist outside computers.
I have heard claims that even though information is more widely available now, a lot less of the past few decades will be available for future historians. Simply because, digital data is often much more ephemeral in nature and also much more fragile compared to analogue data. I am not sure how true these claims are, but there is some truth to it. Besides needing the right interfaces you often also need the right software, if the data is still on the original storage media.
Yeah, I hate to stir the pessimism pot but education isn't much better. I used to work with Nat Geo and their commercial education partners, Cengage, to make educational material. It was a pretty...
Yeah, I hate to stir the pessimism pot but education isn't much better. I used to work with Nat Geo and their commercial education partners, Cengage, to make educational material. It was a pretty similar operation and often there is little context as to why there are so many buddist temples in Bagan or what the crusader castles of Akko sit atop. Honestly so much of it ended up being political - not even diving into biblical archaeology - that it completely turned me off to the field. There were loads of new education startups that we partnered with when I still worked in the field, and like us, most followed the flow of funds to put their narratives together. This was all pre 2020 though, so maybe there has been some progress. However seeing as how groups like DeBeers are the funders for educational projects of the Okavango Delta, I kind of doubt it.
As for the tech partners, we started working with Sketchfab and Capturing Reality - I'd say the two most important acquisitions made by epic - when they were both incredibly new. And while they both have the power to be a great resource for the field, both of them are at their heart gaming products. And the way capitalism works means that they have always pursued a similar model. So while the idea of additional dollars for preservation seems like a great plus for selling or licensing 3D models to gamers/artists, the outcome is optimizing a product for gaming instead of conservation or education. Again these are all really hot takes. Epic is forming a monopoly and I'm against that, but its impact on cultural heritage - and the prospect of driving folks back to more analog methods - may be a negative or a positive.
Completely insane idea: what if we had walking taking androids who can perform self repair on themselves and equipment do the documentation at sites? How the documentation gets archives could...
Completely insane idea: what if we had walking taking androids who can perform self repair on themselves and equipment do the documentation at sites? How the documentation gets archives could still become obsolete I guess and retrieval becomes nearly impossible....but what if these self repairing androids can access them?
Even then, we might run into a similar problem that new child/pet parents have: take a million pictures and look at a few on the phone but the vast majority (especially videos) are never viewed again.
I think you've nailed it in your second paragraph: "to what end." When I started working in this field I wanted to A. preserve our history, B. make it more accessible to folks who couldn't travel...
I think you've nailed it in your second paragraph: "to what end." When I started working in this field I wanted to A. preserve our history, B. make it more accessible to folks who couldn't travel there, and C. help the people who lived locally and cared for the sites. There are so many ways to accomplish all of those things, but the vast majority of them are physical and all of them require consistent forms of funding. Maybe someone will crack the code and do something like Roots Studio does for fashion, but I haven't seen a promising version yet.
Newspaper archives seem pretty useful to historians, so perhaps a combined local journalism / history project would work for some communities? (Not that journalism gets much funding either.)...
Newspaper archives seem pretty useful to historians, so perhaps a combined local journalism / history project would work for some communities? (Not that journalism gets much funding either.)
Regarding personal photography, I agree that some people overdo it, but take a photo or two a day (at least when you go somewhere) and you have a pretty good timeline of where you were on any given day. It’s easy to scroll through. As digital archives go, this is probably the most useful form of personal history.
The issue with cultural heritage is money, or rather lack of money. It's very easy to scan and create a somewhat good 3D model of any landmark using a phone and a drone. There are free or cheap...
The issue with cultural heritage is money, or rather lack of money.
It's very easy to scan and create a somewhat good 3D model of any landmark using a phone and a drone. There are free or cheap softwares to do so.
Issues arise when you want a very detailed model. Then you require either laser scans or meticulous photogrammetry. And it costs a lot.
For small heritage buildings (like the windmills mentioned in the article), nobody has money for detailed scans. And nobody wants to host the 3D models. Heck, currently Wikimedia Commons only supports STL files for 3D objects. It's not designed to display photorealistic models.
I work in the field, we have some users that created wonderful models of heritage sites, but there's little to no funding, except for big landmarks.
SketchFab is pretty big in this space. They're mainly a webgl-based 3d asset viewer but do offer downloads and a store for scenes and models. They have a pretty diverse selection of cultural...
SketchFab is pretty big in this space. They're mainly a webgl-based 3d asset viewer but do offer downloads and a store for scenes and models.
With the posted article in mind it's worth mentioning that SketchFab was acquired by Epic Games in 2021. It was announced last week that the SketchFab store has now been moved to Epic's new Fab...
With the posted article in mind it's worth mentioning that SketchFab was acquired by Epic Games in 2021. It was announced last week that the SketchFab store has now been moved to Epic's new Fab domain to unify it with their Unreal Marketplace. I believe it was mentioned previously that SketchFab will be phased out completely at some point.
Oh no! This is what I get for being a lazy netizen and not reading the article. Thanks for calling me out. This isn't a good thing for anyone. FAB is a weird mess.
Oh no! This is what I get for being a lazy netizen and not reading the article. Thanks for calling me out.
This isn't a good thing for anyone. FAB is a weird mess.
You are at least 10 years too late in your tenure to use the ethos argument to dismiss suspicion. Even as recent as a month ago you more or less went back on the whole quixel megascans promise I'm...
I think sometimes it's easily misinterpreted, especially as you go deeper and deeper into Reddit threads.
You are at least 10 years too late in your tenure to use the ethos argument to dismiss suspicion. Even as recent as a month ago you more or less went back on the whole quixel megascans promise
“Building photorealistic 3D content is an expensive endeavor in game development and film production. By coming together with Quixel to make Megascans free for all use in Unreal Engine, this level of artistry is now available to everyone from triple-A studios to indies,” said Epic Games Founder and CEO Tim Sweeney in a statement.
Oh man, so many feels about it. For context I spent the first 7 years of my professional career documenting endangered heritage in conflict zones. Whenever I talk about working with the Taliban or working with folks on Gaza this is that period.
Well informed but still a hot take, digital preservation does little to benefit tangible cultural heritage or the communities that support and protect it. I spent years dropping into areas, training local teams for a few weeks, documenting sites and leaving. Sometimes we had extended initiatives where I would revisit every six months for a few years but regardless the pattern was the same. Provide equipment and training to local group that doesn't plug in at all with their current workflows, have them document a set number of sites to meet our agreements, we get kudos and accolades from groups like the UN/USAid/NatGeo, data gets transferred back to the US to sit in an underground Iron Mountian tape archive, the equipment breaks so they can no longer document sites, the data they have is no longer up to date to function with new software, everything is non-functional and the group returns to their old methods of documentation (elevation drawings), the archive data become obsolete.
So in the end you end up with money flowing into US non-profits to create a data archive no one will ever use and locals at best learn new skills and can get out of the active conflict areas and at worst take them down a side track that never pans out.
NPR has called it digital colonialism, and I don't think they are too off the mark.
I don't disagree there. Although this repository is about more than just preserving cultural heritage as it is also an education tool like exemplified in the article.
Having these 3d models available might not benefit the communities directly. In some cases it isn't even about communities but other things (again like the models from the quote) and in other cases it can help in education and create overall awareness.
Having said that, there clearly is overlap as this falls in the same category of issues you list. The companies in control of the software, hardware, etc tend to move on over time, deprecating older things without too much thought. This is an issue for real world data that is brought into the digital real, but also is an issue for the preservation of digital native information that does not exist outside computers.
I have heard claims that even though information is more widely available now, a lot less of the past few decades will be available for future historians. Simply because, digital data is often much more ephemeral in nature and also much more fragile compared to analogue data. I am not sure how true these claims are, but there is some truth to it. Besides needing the right interfaces you often also need the right software, if the data is still on the original storage media.
Yeah, I hate to stir the pessimism pot but education isn't much better. I used to work with Nat Geo and their commercial education partners, Cengage, to make educational material. It was a pretty similar operation and often there is little context as to why there are so many buddist temples in Bagan or what the crusader castles of Akko sit atop. Honestly so much of it ended up being political - not even diving into biblical archaeology - that it completely turned me off to the field. There were loads of new education startups that we partnered with when I still worked in the field, and like us, most followed the flow of funds to put their narratives together. This was all pre 2020 though, so maybe there has been some progress. However seeing as how groups like DeBeers are the funders for educational projects of the Okavango Delta, I kind of doubt it.
As for the tech partners, we started working with Sketchfab and Capturing Reality - I'd say the two most important acquisitions made by epic - when they were both incredibly new. And while they both have the power to be a great resource for the field, both of them are at their heart gaming products. And the way capitalism works means that they have always pursued a similar model. So while the idea of additional dollars for preservation seems like a great plus for selling or licensing 3D models to gamers/artists, the outcome is optimizing a product for gaming instead of conservation or education. Again these are all really hot takes. Epic is forming a monopoly and I'm against that, but its impact on cultural heritage - and the prospect of driving folks back to more analog methods - may be a negative or a positive.
Completely insane idea: what if we had walking taking androids who can perform self repair on themselves and equipment do the documentation at sites? How the documentation gets archives could still become obsolete I guess and retrieval becomes nearly impossible....but what if these self repairing androids can access them?
Even then, we might run into a similar problem that new child/pet parents have: take a million pictures and look at a few on the phone but the vast majority (especially videos) are never viewed again.
I think you've nailed it in your second paragraph: "to what end." When I started working in this field I wanted to A. preserve our history, B. make it more accessible to folks who couldn't travel there, and C. help the people who lived locally and cared for the sites. There are so many ways to accomplish all of those things, but the vast majority of them are physical and all of them require consistent forms of funding. Maybe someone will crack the code and do something like Roots Studio does for fashion, but I haven't seen a promising version yet.
Newspaper archives seem pretty useful to historians, so perhaps a combined local journalism / history project would work for some communities? (Not that journalism gets much funding either.)
Regarding personal photography, I agree that some people overdo it, but take a photo or two a day (at least when you go somewhere) and you have a pretty good timeline of where you were on any given day. It’s easy to scroll through. As digital archives go, this is probably the most useful form of personal history.
The issue with cultural heritage is money, or rather lack of money.
It's very easy to scan and create a somewhat good 3D model of any landmark using a phone and a drone. There are free or cheap softwares to do so.
Issues arise when you want a very detailed model. Then you require either laser scans or meticulous photogrammetry. And it costs a lot.
For small heritage buildings (like the windmills mentioned in the article), nobody has money for detailed scans. And nobody wants to host the 3D models. Heck, currently Wikimedia Commons only supports STL files for 3D objects. It's not designed to display photorealistic models.
I work in the field, we have some users that created wonderful models of heritage sites, but there's little to no funding, except for big landmarks.
Re: hosting models, I wonder of the Prusa / Printables folks would do something? That seems up their alley.
SketchFab is pretty big in this space. They're mainly a webgl-based 3d asset viewer but do offer downloads and a store for scenes and models.
They have a pretty diverse selection of cultural heritage, history, science, and archeology models from various libraries, museums, and research groups: https://sketchfab.com/3d-models/categories/cultural-heritage-history?date=week&sort_by=-likeCount
Many are downloadable too! (though most are not "water-tight" for 3d printing)
With the posted article in mind it's worth mentioning that SketchFab was acquired by Epic Games in 2021. It was announced last week that the SketchFab store has now been moved to Epic's new Fab domain to unify it with their Unreal Marketplace. I believe it was mentioned previously that SketchFab will be phased out completely at some point.
Oh no! This is what I get for being a lazy netizen and not reading the article. Thanks for calling me out.
This isn't a good thing for anyone. FAB is a weird mess.
You are at least 10 years too late in your tenure to use the ethos argument to dismiss suspicion. Even as recent as a month ago you more or less went back on the whole quixel megascans promise
I'm tired of all the deception.