21 votes

G’AIM’E: Plug & play gun system for modern TVs

25 comments

  1. Lapbunny
    Link
    Hmmmm. I wish they had some more discrete videos or technical specs, as dubiously talking about AI isn't really selling me on this... I find optical is a plus over IR-based options, but is this...

    Hmmmm. I wish they had some more discrete videos or technical specs, as dubiously talking about AI isn't really selling me on this... I find optical is a plus over IR-based options, but is this specifically built for the games it comes with? The Sinden is also optical and doesn't have any questions about whether it's usable with anything that can be paired with mouse support, which includes PCSX2 Guncon/2 stuff. Or, if you really want light guns in your life, just find the cheapest $20-$50 CRT lying around a garage sale and get some controllers for your old systems.

    On the other hand, Point Blank is like a perfect arcade game, so... Cool. I'm happy if the plug-n-play nature gets it in more people's living rooms.

    12 votes
  2. [5]
    kfwyre
    (edited )
    Link
    Big thanks to @Sodliddesu, @UniquelyGeneric, and @Rudism for their thoughts on the Sinden. I’m opening up the question to be a bit broader: what are people’s experiences with modern light guns of...

    Big thanks to @Sodliddesu, @UniquelyGeneric, and @Rudism for their thoughts on the Sinden.

    I’m opening up the question to be a bit broader: what are people’s experiences with modern light guns of any type? (Sinden, Gun4IR, AimTrak, Retroshooters, WiiMote, other ones I’m not aware of)

    I’ve done a lot of looking and it seems like there are benefits and downsides to each, but I’d love to hear any hands-on experiences.

    There’s a part of me that wants to take the plunge and get one, as I genuinely do love light gun games, but there’s another part of me that hates tinkering and would just as likely toss it aside if I can’t get it working easily.

    8 votes
    1. [3]
      kfwyre
      Link Parent
      Okay, I realize this is pure impatience on my part, but in looking up information on these, I found a preconfigured download pack that should take away a lot of the need for tinkering. So, I...

      Okay, I realize this is pure impatience on my part, but in looking up information on these, I found a preconfigured download pack that should take away a lot of the need for tinkering.

      So, I bought a gun to go with it.

      I went with the Gun4IR via the pre-built options at RPEG Electronics. I had a hard time deciding between this and the Sinden, but several sources online mentioned that the Gun4IR was a bit smoother to use once you've got it all set up and calibrated (because it doesn't need the on-screen border like the Sinden).

      Ever since I saw this Kickstarter, it's given me a light gun itch that hasn't gone away and that I don't feel like I could wait out, hence my hastiness in buying one right now. Once it comes in and I've got stuff up and running, I'll report back either here or in a separate topic.

      4 votes
      1. Lapbunny
        Link Parent
        Ooh, looking forward to a little review. I've found a lot of old IR setups like Wiimotes and the Ghost Squad arcade machine to be kinda laggy, but some newer ones like the modern Point Blank...

        Ooh, looking forward to a little review. I've found a lot of old IR setups like Wiimotes and the Ghost Squad arcade machine to be kinda laggy, but some newer ones like the modern Point Blank machines seem just fine. Hope it's good!

        EDIT: I love that they selected Carnevil to show it off, that game is practically impossible with bullshit bullet sponge enemies.

        3 votes
      2. Sodliddesu
        Link Parent
        I'll be patiently awaiting your write up! I've got a GC2 so I could technically save a few cents on that one if it works better.

        I'll be patiently awaiting your write up! I've got a GC2 so I could technically save a few cents on that one if it works better.

        2 votes
    2. Sodliddesu
      Link Parent
      As someone who's had a WiiMote since launch, it's main problem is the form factor. It has no sights by default and is a remote. However, it is likely the cheapest and most 'zero setup' one. Buy...

      As someone who's had a WiiMote since launch, it's main problem is the form factor. It has no sights by default and is a remote.

      However, it is likely the cheapest and most 'zero setup' one. Buy the remote, get the dolphin bar, load up any light gun game on the Wii and have fun. Hell, get some plastic attachment to make it more like a gun (Zapper goes great with Ghost Squad!) and because it is just a Wiimote, it's really easy to get working with other setups.

      I don't have experience with all of those alternatives (that'd be more money than my love for Time Crisis) but they all require tinkering to various degrees.

      If you want a cheap, fun intro - Go with the Wiimote. Not the best but likely the most versatile and stable. If you like it but want more then invest in the insanity!

      3 votes
  3. [2]
    kfwyre
    Link

    With the decline of CRT TVs, precision-based light-gun games have faded into nostalgia, becoming a cherished memory for many. While several solutions exist to bring these classics to modern displays, they often come with compromises.

    G’AIM’E is different. There are no complex setups, no workarounds. Simply plug and play for a seamless experience, enjoy classic light-gun games the way they were meant to be played.

    The GAIME gun uses our own bespoke technology that utilizes a high-resolution camera and AI; in place of the traditional infrared used in light-guns of the past. We have packaged this with a custom licensed version of TIME CRISIS, faithfully recreated from the original arcade ROM to give you a new and unique arcade experience!

    Our Kickstarter is going live at 12 noon EST on June 24th!

    7 votes
    1. cfabbro
      Link Parent
      This is a key part of the pitch, IMO. If they didn't have approval from Bandai Namco they undoubtedly would have gotten sued.

      While the development process was technically challenging, it was made possible thanks to the incredible support from Bandai Namco Entertainment.

      As a team who grew up playing TIME CRISIS, POINT BLANK (known in Japan as "GUN BULLET"), and STEEL GUNNER series, we never imagined that one day we would be working hand in hand with Bandai Namco Entertainment to bring these games back in a new form and deliver them as a product of our own.

      We are truly grateful for the opportunity to work with Bandai Namco Entertainment and for their generous support. We would like to take this moment to express our deepest appreciation.

      This is a key part of the pitch, IMO. If they didn't have approval from Bandai Namco they undoubtedly would have gotten sued.

      13 votes
  4. kfwyre
    Link
    I grew up playing Time Crisis on a PlayStation with a GunCon. You could use the button on the side of the gun to duck, or you could plug a controller into port 2 and step on it just like the pedal...

    I grew up playing Time Crisis on a PlayStation with a GunCon. You could use the button on the side of the gun to duck, or you could plug a controller into port 2 and step on it just like the pedal in the arcade version (which I absolutely did).

    I’m beyond excited for this.

    I also only ever got to play Point Blank once, and I loved my brief time with it, so that’s a nice bonus.

    I’m doubtful whether this will be usable via emulation for unsupported games, but if it is, it’ll be my new favorite thing. There are so many classic light gun games I would love to revisit or try for the first time. I used to have the enemy patterns completely memorized for Area 51.

    6 votes
  5. [9]
    Sodliddesu
    Link
    So, the Sinden light gun exists and, full disclosure as a backer of that product, the two key points I see on this page are "Camera" and "AI" which the Sinden was doing the camera thing for quite...

    So, the Sinden light gun exists and, full disclosure as a backer of that product, the two key points I see on this page are "Camera" and "AI" which the Sinden was doing the camera thing for quite some time.

    I get they're not going to launch with blueprints on the main page but this page doesn't raise any specific hopes in how they're going to do better that what's already on the market.

    Plus they said AI. Ick.

    I guess it's not having to set up your own emulator?

    6 votes
    1. [3]
      Greg
      Link Parent
      I know what you mean, it’s the new empty buzzword a lot of the time, but in the case of image processing it’s literally a matter of them using the best tool for the job and sticking the label on...

      Plus they said AI. Ick.

      I know what you mean, it’s the new empty buzzword a lot of the time, but in the case of image processing it’s literally a matter of them using the best tool for the job and sticking the label on it that the public has come to understand.

      9 votes
      1. [2]
        hobbes64
        Link Parent
        AI is a marketing term that basically means "algorithm" now. The actual implementation may be something like a random number generator for all we know. Since the early 2,000s, programming IDEs...

        AI is a marketing term that basically means "algorithm" now. The actual implementation may be something like a random number generator for all we know.

        Since the early 2,000s, programming IDEs have had predictive text as you typed. Jetbrains called it "Intellisense", other companies probably called it other things, sometimes "autocomplete". Now it would be called "AI".

        Cell phones finish your text as you type. The map programs calculate a route... It's just algorithms but they would all be called "AI" if introduced today.

        4 votes
        1. Greg
          (edited )
          Link Parent
          Yeah, it’s super frustrating! I’ve been working in machine learning since long before it was cool, and I’ve tried to hold out for ML as a much more accurate and meaningful term for years now, but...

          Yeah, it’s super frustrating! I’ve been working in machine learning since long before it was cool, and I’ve tried to hold out for ML as a much more accurate and meaningful term for years now, but linguistics are gonna descriptivism whether we want them to or not.

          I’ll still say ML wherever possible, and just assume that’s what people generally mean when the word AI is being thrown around.

          To me, an algorithm is a series of steps to achieve a task - generally implying that those steps were defined one by one by a human (not that the word necessitates that, just how it’s usually used in context). ML has the human defining a broad architecture and the machine figuring out the optimal steps based on data instead.

          AI as I see it means probably ML, probably in a marketing or other non-expert context, probably implying large neural nets and specifically transformer architectures, but also occasionally means any number of other things because buzzwords and poor understanding.

          5 votes
    2. [5]
      kfwyre
      Link Parent
      Would you recommend the Sinden? I looked into it a while back and it had very mixed reviews.

      Would you recommend the Sinden?

      I looked into it a while back and it had very mixed reviews.

      6 votes
      1. UniquelyGeneric
        Link Parent
        If you don’t mind tinkering, then yes, it’s worth it. You can play some of the modern Steam games like Blue Steel or House of the Dead Remake without much hassle out of the box. Playing retro...

        If you don’t mind tinkering, then yes, it’s worth it. You can play some of the modern Steam games like Blue Steel or House of the Dead Remake without much hassle out of the box.

        Playing retro games necessitates having the means to do so, which is either some forked Batocera image with ROMs specific to light gun games, or bring your own ROMs to Batocera (which supports Sinden in later versions). Neither of those options are easy. Doing a choose your own adventure of OS will become a series of trial and error that makes you question if it’s all worth it.

        That being said, it works really well once it’s set up properly. I had to DIY my own dampener on the recoil to reduce the noise (the lowest setting is surprisingly loud). You also have to accept a white border on all games in order for the targeting engine to work. This removes some nostalgia, but is also quickly forgotten.

        Keep in mind that the Sinden has some front-heavy weight that will put strain on your wrists. I found a 3D printed shoulder stock that helps reduce strain, but becomes yet another DIY thing you’re investing in. I don’t see any new devices avoiding this issue unless all the weight is distributed in the handle of the gun (unlikely given the need for optical sensors in the “barrel”). Ultimately this means you won’t have a play session longer than 30 minutes to an hour (not an issue if playing with friends, more noticeable on your own).

        I would pose the question: how much do you care about light-gun games? Just a passing fancy? Then probably not worth the effort. Are you a 80s/90s kid with perennial nostalgia for Time Crisis and its ilk? This will scratch that itch. Do you like hacking for its own sake? Then this is fun outside of gaming.

        4 votes
      2. Sodliddesu
        Link Parent
        So, I took out one of my two early batch light guns today. A Blue Sinden with Recoil solenoid. For completeness sake, this was on Windows 10 hooked up to a 65" Vizio TV. Firstly, my firmware was...

        So, I took out one of my two early batch light guns today. A Blue Sinden with Recoil solenoid.

        For completeness sake, this was on Windows 10 hooked up to a 65" Vizio TV.

        Firstly, my firmware was out of date. Upon opening the software, it would hang and then crash shortly after. I could change the page but had to use task manager to quit. A quick search found that I should be launching the software in administrator mode to properly update the firmware but the software would still crash. I eventually found I had about a five second grace period when the software launched, so the race was on. It took me about five times to update my light gun.

        1/5 - That was miserable and took the better part of an hour.

        Then I needed to calibrate the screen and gun, I looked up 'best settings' and so on. Lights on in the room, lights off in the room. Raising the brightness, lowering and raising exposure.

        Turns out, lights off is better on my new screen with a white/black border. Still a lot of jitter but the wiki claims that's a 'normal' amount based on hand movements but this thing is lighter than a P320 and I don't jitter as much with a that or a Wii Remote.

        3/5 - Less painful than the firmware but I need to zero it in more.

        Finally, I loaded Typing of the Dead Overkill and... The game went full screen and hid the borders. Okay, had to restart it to get windowed mode, small set back. Now in windowed mode, the pump (currently mapped to right click) for some reason hides the whole game. If I point up for any reason it displays my drop down dock and mutes the game. The side buttons (Grenades and reload) are in an uncomfortable position because I'm used to a two hand pistol grip instinctively... The jitter and my haphazard setup (I was shooting 'down' didn't calibrate the sights upward) made it difficult but I managed to complete a full level, beating the boss (with two continues).

        4/5 - House of the Dead Overkill is a good game. Many of my issues could likely be solved with more tinkering and setup.

        Altogether, coming back to it - I wouldn't recommend the Sinden unless you like to tinker or need the extended feature set (flashing it for retro consoles and such). I don't know if the non-windows support is better but if you want plug and play, look elsewhere. I used to be able to full combo House of the Dead Overkill on my Wii, so a bunch of my misses were down to the jitter.

        4 votes
      3. Sodliddesu
        Link Parent
        I enjoy it. I have the recoil variants but it takes tinkering. It required a lot of light last time I'd used them. They've been packed up for a bit so I haven't seen it the software has improved...

        I enjoy it. I have the recoil variants but it takes tinkering. It required a lot of light last time I'd used them. They've been packed up for a bit so I haven't seen it the software has improved much as I was out of the country for a year and then moved houses but it was great to get it set up and play Time Crisis again. I used a Wii Balance board as a foot pedal at the time but I see they're offering a more arcade accurate pedal these days.

        Actually, I'll see if I can bust them out tomorrow and check out the latest version.

        3 votes
      4. Rudism
        Link Parent
        Hardware-wise I like the Sinden. The recoil version I got is quite heavy, so playing longer than 20-30 minutes at a time might be tough on your wrists, but I couldn't imagine wanting to play much...

        Hardware-wise I like the Sinden. The recoil version I got is quite heavy, so playing longer than 20-30 minutes at a time might be tough on your wrists, but I couldn't imagine wanting to play much longer than that per session anyway so it's fine for me. The software is its primary weak point. I picked mine up a couple months ago with the goal/hope of getting it working in my MAME setup (which also involves Sunshine/Moonlight streaming to the TV in my media center)--which I eventually did but it took a lot of man hours fighting with configs, wonky software, and even giving up on Linux and running MAME in a Windows dual-boot situation instead. I haven't tried playing any of the modern games with lightgun support but I imagine if that's your goal (and you're not trying to remote-play your games, and you're running Windows) you'll have a much easier time than I did. There are Batocera builds that claim to have plug-and-play support too (with pre-configured games included), so if you're fine with using one of those that might also smooth things out.

        I think it's actually one of those situations where analyzing the camera input, identifying your TV, and figuring out where the mouse needs to be positioned relative to where you're aiming on the screen could be one of those things that machine learning/AI would actually improve a lot, compared to the persistent white border and manual calibration that's needed to get the Sinden working.

        3 votes
  6. [5]
    cfabbro
    Link
    Well that's interesting. It seems like they might not have had the permission from Bandai Namco Entertainment that they said they did.

    G’AIM’E: Plug & Play TIME CRISIS Gun for Modern TVs (GAIME) is the subject of an intellectual property dispute and is currently unavailable

    Well that's interesting. It seems like they might not have had the permission from Bandai Namco Entertainment that they said they did.

    5 votes
    1. [2]
      kfwyre
      Link Parent
      The Kickstarter page is back up again. I’d love to know what’s going on behind the scenes.

      The Kickstarter page is back up again. I’d love to know what’s going on behind the scenes.

      6 votes
      1. cfabbro
        (edited )
        Link Parent
        Huh, even more interesting that it was resolved so quickly. The Left hand / Right hand thing would definitely be my guess now. Some overzealous lawyers at Bandai probably sent a Cease & Desist...

        Huh, even more interesting that it was resolved so quickly. The Left hand / Right hand thing would definitely be my guess now. Some overzealous lawyers at Bandai probably sent a Cease & Desist without realizing the company had a license.

        4 votes
    2. [2]
      kfwyre
      Link Parent
      You sure called the shot on that! I’m wondering if it’s not the license though, but maybe a patent dispute or something? This makes me even more glad I impulse bought the Gun4IR, though I am sad...

      You sure called the shot on that! I’m wondering if it’s not the license though, but maybe a patent dispute or something?

      This makes me even more glad I impulse bought the Gun4IR, though I am sad that this project is on hiatus. I liked the idea of a portable plug-and-play setup that could travel so I could bring it on my nerd weekends with friends.

      5 votes
      1. cfabbro
        (edited )
        Link Parent
        Definitely a possibility too... but my guess would be the Time Crisis ROM thing. That sort of official partnership (if it was even true) would take a lot of connections to pull off, and TBH it...

        but maybe a patent dispute or something?

        Definitely a possibility too... but my guess would be the Time Crisis ROM thing. That sort of official partnership (if it was even true) would take a lot of connections to pull off, and TBH it doesn't sound like something Bandai Namco would actually participate in since they're rather protective of their IP. Or perhaps it's just a case of the left hand (Bandai Namco Holdings/Entertainment) not knowing what the right hand (Bandai Namco Studios) was doing, and once the parent company learned of it they shut it down. Only time will tell, I suppose.

        5 votes
  7. hobbes64
    Link
    I'm just slightly familiar with how kickstarter works. I notice that this doesn't have anyway to pledge any money yet. I guess that is going to be decided on the launch date? Maybe the prices will...

    I'm just slightly familiar with how kickstarter works. I notice that this doesn't have anyway to pledge any money yet. I guess that is going to be decided on the launch date? Maybe the prices will be higher depending on how many people are asking to be notified. I can see that they have 3 different "levels" for the product. Any guesses for the probable pricing? Maybe ranging from $100 to $300?

    2 votes
  8. unkz
    Link
    I just want duck hunt.

    I just want duck hunt.

    2 votes