I'm really looking forward to WoW Classic. I played for years, but eventually I guess I kind of felt lost with all the changes they made. I really enjoyed soloing or rolling around with people I...
I'm really looking forward to WoW Classic. I played for years, but eventually I guess I kind of felt lost with all the changes they made. I really enjoyed soloing or rolling around with people I knew in real life, especially my partner. Playing with someone who was actually in the room with me was a lot of fun. Eventually I embraced pugs and raids and other multiplayer aspects of the game, but it was never the main appeal for me. I'm hoping that it's been long enough since I first started playing that when Classic is released, I can enjoy it without having rose-colored glasses on.
I can’t be the only one not at all interested, am I? I loved vanilla WoW, and the game as a whole has been a huge part of my life, having played it for almost 12 years. I was even a US top raider,...
I can’t be the only one not at all interested, am I?
I loved vanilla WoW, and the game as a whole has been a huge part of my life, having played it for almost 12 years. I was even a US top raider, and maintained guides for my spec on the two largest fan sites for a bit. But times change. What was fun 14 years ago probably won’t hold up as well today. Vanilla WoW was amazing because of the sense of exploration and wonder in the world. The combat was bad, the raids had simple mechanics, classes were stupidly imbalanced, and most of your time would be spent grinding for various things just so you can have fun for 3 or 4 hours. While I’m not a fan of what WoW has turned into, the gameplay loop is undeniably more fun than it was in 2004.
I tried out some of the private vanilla servers and would have to disagree about the gameplay loop being more fun. In general I don't think MMO's are fun at all when you look at the gameplay...
I tried out some of the private vanilla servers and would have to disagree about the gameplay loop being more fun.
In general I don't think MMO's are fun at all when you look at the gameplay itself. There's a ton of grinding, running back and forth over the world, tons of random materials you need from all over the place that necessitate more grinidng and traveling. You can make that less painful and make try gameplay more fun for an individual but that gets an MMO trapped in a local optimum.
When I played the vanilla servers it was harder and less fun as an individual, but the increased difficulty forced players to work together and increased social interaction. That's where all the fun of the MMO's come from, the social interaction and group accomplishments. In vanilla it was difficult enough that you could earn yourself a reputation as a guy worth playing with, and trolls or ninjas would be shunned which limited bad behavior. With current WoW everything is too easy so users aren't forced into cooperation. You just sign up for dungeon finder or raid finder, half the people can be asleep and you'll still win the dungeon/raid. You don't have elite quests anymore that led to strangers meeting up in zones or groups of friends preparing to go out together to help one complete a questline. It's just comepletly sterile.
I played warlords of draenor and managed to get up to raiding and actually complete raids without talking to a single other player. It was fairly unejoyable the entire time
Blizzard devs outline some of the challenges that they're facing in reviving WoW Classic. It's an interesting read for people who enjoyed WoW, but also for people who are just interested in some...
Blizzard devs outline some of the challenges that they're facing in reviving WoW Classic. It's an interesting read for people who enjoyed WoW, but also for people who are just interested in some of the challenges intrinsic in working with really old versions of your codebases.
Yea, I'm afraid this is what will end up happening. Of course a few people will love it and play it exclusively, but I think most people will play it for a bit and then leave. I haven't really...
But times change. What was fun 14 years ago probably won’t hold up as well today.
Yea, I'm afraid this is what will end up happening. Of course a few people will love it and play it exclusively, but I think most people will play it for a bit and then leave. I haven't really played vanilla since I started early TBC, but I think players are looking back nostalgically and thinking Classic WoW will bring back their childhood moments and its excitement. I'll obviously play it, there's no way I'd miss that, but I don't see myself doing it for more than a month. I play retail and I enjoy it, even if I don't like the direction the game is going. Then again, the community behind this idea was huge so maybe I'm wrong.
This was the thing about private servers. Some friends and I tried old-school vanilla, and it's just not as fun as you'd expect. I miss the old zones and quests, but there have been so many...
I think players are looking back nostalgically
This was the thing about private servers. Some friends and I tried old-school vanilla, and it's just not as fun as you'd expect. I miss the old zones and quests, but there have been so many quality of life improvements to the game over the years that playing without them felt awful.
If they can manage to bring a lot of the improvements back to vanilla and still retain what made it special, then I feel like Classic will have some serious staying power.
For posterity, this was a reply to this comment I've never understood this, ever. Just don't do cross realm stuff? Join a guild and do all your dungeon stuff with your guild? The cross realm tools...
What "ruined" wow for me was the cross realm that basically destroyed the sense of community of a server as running a dungeon was not anymore running with other people on the server but with 4 random names that could have been as well being bots.
I've never understood this, ever.
Just don't do cross realm stuff? Join a guild and do all your dungeon stuff with your guild?
The cross realm tools just made it easier for people to actually do things that they couldn't before; they are in no way necessary if you actually try to use the social features that have been in the game forever.
It's not so easy. Especially in small guilds sometimes you didn't had people to run a dungeon with because the only moment in which everyone was online, was the evening for the raid. I don't know...
It's not so easy. Especially in small guilds sometimes you didn't had people to run a dungeon with because the only moment in which everyone was online, was the evening for the raid.
I don't know if you experienced it but it's rather different joining a battleground and see on the other side the usual names from joining and seeing some unknown names.
Going though the "oh shit" moment when you were seeing a famous player charging to get the point and knowing he was far better than you so you could only resist while the others on your team were trying to run back.
When cross realm wasn't there, the server was feeling more immersive because the number of heroes on both sides (horde and alliance) were finite and you could actually make a name for yourself in the server.
It also meant that if you were an asshole/drama queen, you were going to not be invited on guilds, helping drive the assholes away.
P.s. you replied to the top post and not my comment :P
But if you're in a small guild and you don't have the people, this actually lets you play elements of the game you would otherwise not be able to do. Also, with respect to BGs - I don't really do...
Especially in small guilds sometimes you didn't had people to run a dungeon with
But if you're in a small guild and you don't have the people, this actually lets you play elements of the game you would otherwise not be able to do.
it's rather different joining a battleground and see on the other side the usual names from joining
Also, with respect to BGs - I don't really do random BGs any more (I don't think WoW pvp has been in a particularly good place in the last decade or so), but there's still some of the same feeling in rated BGs.
you could actually make a name for yourself in the server
This can still be the case. In trade or general, there are people who know who I am, and there are people that I know, people from outside my guild.
It also meant that if you were an asshole/drama queen, you were going to not be invited on guilds
Still the case. You can't get in a mythic raid group if you're bad or an asshole.
All of the things that you complain about are stil in the game but a lot of people opt not to do those things because there is a different path available. You don't have to take the other path. If you don't enjoy the cross realm stuff, then spend some time and find where you fit in so that you don't have to do any of those things.
Because of the restrictions of Classic WoW, a Classic WoW server would do this for him. When Classic WoW launches, I know that simply by logging into that Classic WoW server, I'll be surrounded by...
then spend some time and find where you fit in
Because of the restrictions of Classic WoW, a Classic WoW server would do this for him. When Classic WoW launches, I know that simply by logging into that Classic WoW server, I'll be surrounded by people that are interested in that sort of experience. Sure, I have to give up some of the "joys" of modern WoW, but I can't think of many things in modern WoW that I actually care that much about.
More importantly though, current WoW is designed and optimized around LFG/cross-realm style. Dungeons, even mythics, are designed to be run a certain way. Non-instanced content is designed knowing that your LFG/LFR queue could pop at any time. Reward loops are built on the assumption that you'll be using the various forms of fast-travel that have made WoW feel smaller than classic, despite the addition of multiple new continents since WoW's launch. Even if you find a "no cross-realm, no fast-travel" guild or whatever, you're surrounded by players and systems in a world that is build for instant gratification.
I read the article earlier today and thought what others are saying as well. It was fun when I was going in university and had much more time available due to much less reponsabilities. I remember...
I read the article earlier today and thought what others are saying as well.
It was fun when I was going in university and had much more time available due to much less reponsabilities.
I remember those times as fond memories but not due to the game itself (that was quite grindy and dull) but for the community. What "ruined" wow for me was the cross realm that basically destroyed the sense of community of a server as running a dungeon was not anymore running with other people on the server but with 4 random names that could have been as well being bots.
From time to time I come back to WoW (when I get the 1 week free pass) and every time I leave more disappointed due to PUG that join, literally run like they have the fucking devil behind their heels, finish the the dungeon and leave without a single word said during the whole thing.
I dunno how this people enjoy the game as the game itself is even more dull than it was before (semplification and all that, think about the theorycrafting done back in vanilla/burning crusade and what is done now) so if they don't even enjoy the "playing with others" part... what exactly are they enjoying?
Anyway I digress. The point is that If they are going to keep those server "isolated" it could become something "like good old times" in which the focus point was the community and not the game itself, but I wouldn't mind some QoL that were implemented in the last 10 years at some point in the future, after the initial release.
Also, community and all, but if the endgame is going to be locked at An'Quiraj forever... I don't know.
I understand that they are doing this exclusively as a fan service but I hope it get enough traction that they try and include new raids tuned for "old" content, maybe through the cavern of times to avoid having to fit in the whole new environments?
Imagine tuning something like Icecrown Citadel for lvl 60th, and you access it through a "glimpse of the future" raids in the Cavern of Times. I imagine it wouldn't be so hard to add if you don't have to add the whole continent. Something like that would keep it fresh even if keeping the old mechanics/talents/spells/etc.
I'm really looking forward to WoW Classic. I played for years, but eventually I guess I kind of felt lost with all the changes they made. I really enjoyed soloing or rolling around with people I knew in real life, especially my partner. Playing with someone who was actually in the room with me was a lot of fun. Eventually I embraced pugs and raids and other multiplayer aspects of the game, but it was never the main appeal for me. I'm hoping that it's been long enough since I first started playing that when Classic is released, I can enjoy it without having rose-colored glasses on.
I can’t be the only one not at all interested, am I?
I loved vanilla WoW, and the game as a whole has been a huge part of my life, having played it for almost 12 years. I was even a US top raider, and maintained guides for my spec on the two largest fan sites for a bit. But times change. What was fun 14 years ago probably won’t hold up as well today. Vanilla WoW was amazing because of the sense of exploration and wonder in the world. The combat was bad, the raids had simple mechanics, classes were stupidly imbalanced, and most of your time would be spent grinding for various things just so you can have fun for 3 or 4 hours. While I’m not a fan of what WoW has turned into, the gameplay loop is undeniably more fun than it was in 2004.
I tried out some of the private vanilla servers and would have to disagree about the gameplay loop being more fun.
In general I don't think MMO's are fun at all when you look at the gameplay itself. There's a ton of grinding, running back and forth over the world, tons of random materials you need from all over the place that necessitate more grinidng and traveling. You can make that less painful and make try gameplay more fun for an individual but that gets an MMO trapped in a local optimum.
When I played the vanilla servers it was harder and less fun as an individual, but the increased difficulty forced players to work together and increased social interaction. That's where all the fun of the MMO's come from, the social interaction and group accomplishments. In vanilla it was difficult enough that you could earn yourself a reputation as a guy worth playing with, and trolls or ninjas would be shunned which limited bad behavior. With current WoW everything is too easy so users aren't forced into cooperation. You just sign up for dungeon finder or raid finder, half the people can be asleep and you'll still win the dungeon/raid. You don't have elite quests anymore that led to strangers meeting up in zones or groups of friends preparing to go out together to help one complete a questline. It's just comepletly sterile.
I played warlords of draenor and managed to get up to raiding and actually complete raids without talking to a single other player. It was fairly unejoyable the entire time
Blizzard devs outline some of the challenges that they're facing in reviving WoW Classic. It's an interesting read for people who enjoyed WoW, but also for people who are just interested in some of the challenges intrinsic in working with really old versions of your codebases.
Yea, I'm afraid this is what will end up happening. Of course a few people will love it and play it exclusively, but I think most people will play it for a bit and then leave. I haven't really played vanilla since I started early TBC, but I think players are looking back nostalgically and thinking Classic WoW will bring back their childhood moments and its excitement. I'll obviously play it, there's no way I'd miss that, but I don't see myself doing it for more than a month. I play retail and I enjoy it, even if I don't like the direction the game is going. Then again, the community behind this idea was huge so maybe I'm wrong.
This was the thing about private servers. Some friends and I tried old-school vanilla, and it's just not as fun as you'd expect. I miss the old zones and quests, but there have been so many quality of life improvements to the game over the years that playing without them felt awful.
If they can manage to bring a lot of the improvements back to vanilla and still retain what made it special, then I feel like Classic will have some serious staying power.
For posterity, this was a reply to this comment
I've never understood this, ever.
Just don't do cross realm stuff? Join a guild and do all your dungeon stuff with your guild?
The cross realm tools just made it easier for people to actually do things that they couldn't before; they are in no way necessary if you actually try to use the social features that have been in the game forever.
It's not so easy. Especially in small guilds sometimes you didn't had people to run a dungeon with because the only moment in which everyone was online, was the evening for the raid.
I don't know if you experienced it but it's rather different joining a battleground and see on the other side the usual names from joining and seeing some unknown names.
Going though the "oh shit" moment when you were seeing a famous player charging to get the point and knowing he was far better than you so you could only resist while the others on your team were trying to run back.
When cross realm wasn't there, the server was feeling more immersive because the number of heroes on both sides (horde and alliance) were finite and you could actually make a name for yourself in the server.
It also meant that if you were an asshole/drama queen, you were going to not be invited on guilds, helping drive the assholes away.
P.s. you replied to the top post and not my comment :P
Edit: tons of autocorrect errors
But if you're in a small guild and you don't have the people, this actually lets you play elements of the game you would otherwise not be able to do.
Also, with respect to BGs - I don't really do random BGs any more (I don't think WoW pvp has been in a particularly good place in the last decade or so), but there's still some of the same feeling in rated BGs.
This can still be the case. In trade or general, there are people who know who I am, and there are people that I know, people from outside my guild.
Still the case. You can't get in a mythic raid group if you're bad or an asshole.
All of the things that you complain about are stil in the game but a lot of people opt not to do those things because there is a different path available. You don't have to take the other path. If you don't enjoy the cross realm stuff, then spend some time and find where you fit in so that you don't have to do any of those things.
Because of the restrictions of Classic WoW, a Classic WoW server would do this for him. When Classic WoW launches, I know that simply by logging into that Classic WoW server, I'll be surrounded by people that are interested in that sort of experience. Sure, I have to give up some of the "joys" of modern WoW, but I can't think of many things in modern WoW that I actually care that much about.
More importantly though, current WoW is designed and optimized around LFG/cross-realm style. Dungeons, even mythics, are designed to be run a certain way. Non-instanced content is designed knowing that your LFG/LFR queue could pop at any time. Reward loops are built on the assumption that you'll be using the various forms of fast-travel that have made WoW feel smaller than classic, despite the addition of multiple new continents since WoW's launch. Even if you find a "no cross-realm, no fast-travel" guild or whatever, you're surrounded by players and systems in a world that is build for instant gratification.
I read the article earlier today and thought what others are saying as well.
It was fun when I was going in university and had much more time available due to much less reponsabilities.
I remember those times as fond memories but not due to the game itself (that was quite grindy and dull) but for the community. What "ruined" wow for me was the cross realm that basically destroyed the sense of community of a server as running a dungeon was not anymore running with other people on the server but with 4 random names that could have been as well being bots.
From time to time I come back to WoW (when I get the 1 week free pass) and every time I leave more disappointed due to PUG that join, literally run like they have the fucking devil behind their heels, finish the the dungeon and leave without a single word said during the whole thing.
I dunno how this people enjoy the game as the game itself is even more dull than it was before (semplification and all that, think about the theorycrafting done back in vanilla/burning crusade and what is done now) so if they don't even enjoy the "playing with others" part... what exactly are they enjoying?
Anyway I digress. The point is that If they are going to keep those server "isolated" it could become something "like good old times" in which the focus point was the community and not the game itself, but I wouldn't mind some QoL that were implemented in the last 10 years at some point in the future, after the initial release.
Also, community and all, but if the endgame is going to be locked at An'Quiraj forever... I don't know.
I understand that they are doing this exclusively as a fan service but I hope it get enough traction that they try and include new raids tuned for "old" content, maybe through the cavern of times to avoid having to fit in the whole new environments?
Imagine tuning something like Icecrown Citadel for lvl 60th, and you access it through a "glimpse of the future" raids in the Cavern of Times. I imagine it wouldn't be so hard to add if you don't have to add the whole continent. Something like that would keep it fresh even if keeping the old mechanics/talents/spells/etc.
The gang discovers database normalization