Between this and Zoe Quinn's accusations against Alec Holowka, a lot of gaming internet communities are currently overflowing with extremely shitty comments and arguments. Let's do better here,...
Between this and Zoe Quinn's accusations against Alec Holowka, a lot of gaming internet communities are currently overflowing with extremely shitty comments and arguments. Let's do better here, please. I'd prefer not to have to moderate but I'll do it heavily on these topic(s) if needed.
You're right on this one. I only saw the reddit thread and it's already full of shit about innocent until proven guilty or no proof etc. Soul has lawyered up, evidenced by the fact that he's...
You're right on this one. I only saw the reddit thread and it's already full of shit about innocent until proven guilty or no proof etc.
Soul has lawyered up, evidenced by the fact that he's deleted any social media presence of his. Lawhead of course doesn't want to get into a legal battle, and I think this post was written to get everything off her chest finally and obviously drag Soul into the court of public opinion, because she probably can't afford/does not want legal representation.
Hopefully other women come forward, so we can get some movement into this, because if Lawhead stands alone, she's going to get swallowed by the meat grinder that is the juidical system or caught between the lines of a toxic as fuck online war of rabid fans and people who support her.
As I said, most likely Soul will see no consequence. She's got no evidence, the crime has happened too long ago for any physical injuries to still be present, Lawhead unfortunately has nothing. She can only hope to break off a scandal so that Soul becomes burned country and no company contracts him as a composer. Considering the size that #MeToo needed for that to happen to Weinstein, I doubt that this will happen, unless more women come forward. And if there are more (probably, judging by her post), I hope they do.
Why is innocent until proven guilty some taboo thing that should be considered 'shit'? Why should it be the state of affairs that someone without evidence or corroboration should be able to...
Why is innocent until proven guilty some taboo thing that should be considered 'shit'? Why should it be the state of affairs that someone without evidence or corroboration should be able to destroy a career? Like you said right here, "She's got no evidence". That doesn't mean come out and accuse her of lying, and definitely invite anyone with similar stories to talk, but it also doesn't mean the other extreme where somebody gets burned and loses their livelihood (not to mention everybody else losing the value of their now nonexistent future work) on the basis of an unsubstantiated claim could in any way be acceptable.
There is a claim being made here of some very serious contract disputes - nothing motivates people like money, and the idea that if someone was made angry enough over feeling hard done by after financial negotiations to make other claims with the expectation that without evidence those claims could destroy careers... well that has some pretty horrific implications.
This is naive to a fault. You work with someone, you get burned, you spend a while trying different avenues to recover funds and accreditation for your work, but neither one of you can agree who...
The only reason for her to say this is because it's true.
This is naive to a fault. You work with someone, you get burned, you spend a while trying different avenues to recover funds and accreditation for your work, but neither one of you can agree who is at fault and everyone is angry. So you attack the other person's reputation - not in an attempt to recover funds as you've exhausted your options there, but because you are angry and want to hurt the person or group you are angry at.
Applying a rational cost benefit analysis to something is almost the opposite of proof it wouldn't happen, because people are irrational more than not. It's not evidence either way, but while the possibilities are so open it would be crazy to take action for or against.
If you've read the post, the majority of it is actually directed against the Canadian company she freelanced for in 2008. By all accounts (and she's got proof there) it was a terrible place to...
If you've read the post, the majority of it is actually directed against the Canadian company she freelanced for in 2008. By all accounts (and she's got proof there) it was a terrible place to work at. It'd make more sense to accuse the company's CEO or his brother or whatever of rape if she was out to destroy reputations, no? To be honest, the whole thing about Soule is mostly just thrown in there at the beginning, it's like one paragraph and the rest is about her god awful experience working for the unnamed company.
Then again, I think rape happens more often than a false rape accusation, so it makes proportionally sense to believe the woman, because it's not our job to investigate her claims. That's on the police (and they usually fuck it up, too).
So you attack the other person's reputation
Accusing someone of rape because they were difficult to work with is about on the same level as accusing them of murder. Why would this woman be different?
This is my issue with this post specifically, though my comments aren't all that specific to this case. Again though, it's not about making sense, the moment you have an accusation of rape,...
To be honest, the whole thing about Soule is mostly just thrown in there at the beginning, it's like one paragraph and the rest is about her god awful experience working for the unnamed company.
This is my issue with this post specifically, though my comments aren't all that specific to this case. Again though, it's not about making sense, the moment you have an accusation of rape, somebody has done something irrational whether it was true or not.
The difference with murder is somebody has to be missing for that to be at all plausible.
Why? The post in particular deals with her work experience in a foreign country. Lawhead was in an awful position and Soul took advantage of that. I don't think there's that much more to write...
This is my issue with this post specifically
Why? The post in particular deals with her work experience in a foreign country. Lawhead was in an awful position and Soul took advantage of that. I don't think there's that much more to write about, to be honest. The problems at work themselves require more explanation, since she has loads of emails to give context to.
I'd love to understand the reasoning behind this. If someone accuses someone else of rape, it could be from years of desperate and irrational attempts to suppress and "move on" from the memory....
the moment you have an accusation of rape, somebody has done something irrational
I'd love to understand the reasoning behind this. If someone accuses someone else of rape, it could be from years of desperate and irrational attempts to suppress and "move on" from the memory. How is that irrational?
I think the point he was trying to make was that, when an accusation of rape occurs, either someone committed the crime (which is irrational) and someone accused them (which is rational, like you...
I think the point he was trying to make was that, when an accusation of rape occurs, either someone committed the crime (which is irrational) and someone accused them (which is rational, like you said), or someone falsely accused someone (which is irrational). Because of this, true or not, someone did something irrational.
Why not simply attack them for not paying you what you agreed upon? So you're saying that women would want to introduce harassment and disbelief into their lives, all in the vague hope...
So you attack the other person's reputation
Why not simply attack them for not paying you what you agreed upon?
Applying a rational cost benefit analysis to something is almost the opposite of proof it wouldn't happen, because people are irrational more than not.
So you're saying that women would want to introduce harassment and disbelief into their lives, all in the vague hope of....being....paid?
That argument falls apart when you realize that the same thing could be said about virtually any crime. Hell it could be said about rape/sexual assault itself. Why would anyone risk their entire...
That argument falls apart when you realize that the same thing could be said about virtually any crime. Hell it could be said about rape/sexual assault itself. Why would anyone risk their entire career/reputation/family/livelihood for a brief power trip and a few minutes of sexual gratification?
It's not a rational decision to make, and yet tens of thousands of people in the US make it every year, so pretending that people always make rational decisions makes no sense.
Yes, because, as we all know, nothing bad ever happens to those who accuse others of rape. They all live happy lives free of harassment and ridicule. Isn't that a form of the broken window...
Why should it be the state of affairs that someone without evidence or corroboration should be able to destroy a career?
Yes, because, as we all know, nothing bad ever happens to those who accuse others of rape. They all live happy lives free of harassment and ridicule.
but it also doesn't mean the other extreme where somebody gets burned and loses their livelihood (not to mention everybody else losing the value of their now nonexistent future work)
Isn't that a form of the broken window fallacy? It assumes others won't come along and snatch up the same talent to make their respective video games.
Her post wasn't explicit about this, but my reading was that she was coerced into sex against her wishes. As such there may not have been physical injuries or evidence of foul play. That's not to...
She's got no evidence, the crime has happened too long ago for any physical injuries to still be present
Her post wasn't explicit about this, but my reading was that she was coerced into sex against her wishes. As such there may not have been physical injuries or evidence of foul play.
That's not to say that it isn't a real rape. If your livelihood depends on complying, then it's not real consent. Though legally it may be more complicated. Outside of filing a police report I don't know what else she could have done.
I would hope that there is some law which would apply.
It's a little off-topic for this thread overall (maybe I should have edited the link/title to point to the Gamasutra article or another more comprehensive one instead of just leaving it about...
It's a little off-topic for this thread overall (maybe I should have edited the link/title to point to the Gamasutra article or another more comprehensive one instead of just leaving it about Soule specifically?), but Scott Benson (one of the main people behind Night in the Woods) has made some statements about Alec Holowka now.
Allegations of past abuse have come to light this week regarding Alec Holowka, who we have worked with in the past. We take such allegations seriously, and applaud those speaking out about their experiences with abuse in the industry and elsewhere.
As a result, we won't be working with Alec in the future. What this means for Night in the Woods going forward is something we will have to work out. These things take time, longer than a couple days at least.
Night in the Woods is a very personal game for Bethany and I. Our parts of the game - the writing, world, characters, art, etc - are pulled from our own lives, sometimes very directly.
We know it has connected with thousands of people in a very deep manner. And whatever your reaction is, that's valid. Know that we are just as heartbroken right now. We'll have more info in the future about how we're moving forward. Thanks.
On a more personal note, this has all been devastating. And people will ask for details that we as collaborators on a project simply do not have. They’ll want essays and interviews as if we have some secret info. But we don’t. We’re just very sad right now.
This week, allegations of past abuse have come to light regarding Alec Holowka, who was coder, composer, and co-designer on Night In The Woods. We take such allegations seriously as a team. As a result and after some agonizing consideration, we are cutting ties with Alec.
We are cancelling a current project and postponing the Limited Run physical release. The iOS port is being handled by an outside company and supervised by Finji and will remain in development.
We’ve received a lot of emails and messages in the past few days, often very hurt and angry. That’s also how we feel. This has been very, very tough.
I should say that I’m Scott. Hello. I run this account. I was the artist, lead animator, co-designer, co-writer, and the guy who wrote almost all of that dialogue in the game. Bethany’s here too, she was co-writer and researcher.
Much of Night In The Woods is pulled pretty directly from our lives. Bethany is from a tiny valley in central PA. I’ve lived out here in Western PA for about 20 years. The characters are us, and people we’ve known. The places are ones we know.
Thousands of people have connected with Night In The Woods in a very personal way. We can’t tell you how to feel about any of this. Whatever you’re feeling is valid. Your experience with art is yours. What it means to you is yours, regardless of anything else.
Going forward, Night In The Woods will be handled by Bethany and I. We’re not sure what that all means yet. This stuff takes time.
Thanks for your support over the years. We’re sorry to even have to say any of this. That’s all I can say at the moment. Thank you for your patience.
That was a hard read. If the accusations are true, I hope Lawhead is able to find justice and healing, and that Soule is held responsible for his actions. I don't know anything about the guy but I...
That was a hard read. If the accusations are true, I hope Lawhead is able to find justice and healing, and that Soule is held responsible for his actions. I don't know anything about the guy but I believe the blog post. Of course I'm mad at people who rape people; but beyond that I'm mad that so many creators of things I enjoy do terrible things.
The Skyrim soundtrack is fantastic, and now I won't be able to listen to it without picturing a skeezy man preying on and manipulating a colleague in a vulnerable situation. The #meToo movement is empowering and enlightening, and it's something we need. At the same time it's casting dark shadows over so much beloved art. I have so much more respect for creators who maintain upstanding personal lives, but even so I now can't help but wonder if they're actually clean or just better at keeping their victims quiet. It's tragic that it's so hard to know who's actually a decent human being. We have more visibility on this now than ever before, so I'm not complaining about #meToo, the real shame is that we're discovering that good people are actually rarer than we once believed.
It's hard to express what feels like a selfish, how-does-this-affect-me byproduct of the #metoo movement that is trying one's darnedest to avoid consuming problematic media/art tied to terrible...
It's hard to express what feels like a selfish, how-does-this-affect-me byproduct of the #metoo movement that is trying one's darnedest to avoid consuming problematic media/art tied to terrible people, but it's also not entirely selfish, as it helps us steer and expose ourselves toward other media alternatives, away from the ones made by horrible people. And if you're like me you sort of build this mental blacklist of artists to avoid, and it inadvertently comes up in conversation, which helps solidify their bad reputation in history, as it should be.
I've kind of just made an agreement with myself that I'm going to try my darnedest to avoid terrible people's work until they're either dead or mostly out-of-work/box-office poison. And if I ever do find myself somehow succumbing to consuming their work before either of those qualifiers are met (or I guess, even after), it's typically a very sullied experience just as you'd mentioned-- I'm mentally not able to separate the art from the artist, I continue to (almost involuntarily) remind myself that this person is an asshole.
Let's assume for a second that you know exactly whose allegations are real, and whose are not, and manage to exactly avoid only the real ones… then you're still highly likely to consume the...
… trying one's darnedest to avoid consuming problematic media/art tied to terrible people, but it's also not entirely selfish, as it helps us steer and expose ourselves toward other media alternatives, away from the ones made by horrible people.
Let's assume for a second that you know exactly whose allegations are real, and whose are not, and manage to exactly avoid only the real ones… then you're still highly likely to consume the content of those who haven't been caught yet.
"Separate the artist from the art" has been a problem since forever; the creative community is stereotypically filled with people who are more broken than the average community, living the "broken artist" fantasy, etc. And, well, on average, most people do do shitty things. Being famous is being in the spotlight, sometimes literally. Your past does end up resurfacing. Sometimes it's really nasty illegal shit, sometimes it's an out-of-context comment you made when you were 19 and drunk.
I think it's fine to go out of your way to avoid supporting work from clearly bad people/companies (where "bad" can both be "morally repugnant" or "dangerous for the earth" or what have you). I do that sometimes. For example, I'm boycotting all new Disney movies for the foreseeable future due to the bullshit Mulan's actress pulled about HK. But I also think it's equally toxic to try to avoid everything, especially the less-substanciated rumors. It feeds a toxic culture of outrage-addiction, which lives on top of an already toxic celebrity-worship culture.
I think, a big part of "social justice" is "if the justice system itself is failing, people and companies should still face consequences for their wrongdoings". Which is commendable, right up until it becomes a vigilante that seeks out people to dish it to.
She's a shining example of the desperation that I've seen others talk about. Her position basically made her a pawn, she was fighting get a foot in the door they kept basically cutting off,...
She's a shining example of the desperation that I've seen others talk about. Her position basically made her a pawn, she was fighting get a foot in the door they kept basically cutting off, despite apparently being in demand, as everybody wanted to keep her around and bring her back after she'd had enough of their non-paying BS, unless that's a manipulation I don't know about. There is a lot more to this than the Jeremy Soule thing.
I wonder if her story is going to get a bunch of other people to come out. If he views women as his "muse," he has to have done this more than once for inspiration.
A second woman, vocalist Aeralie Brighton, accused Soule as well, including saying that he sent her a video of himself masturbating. It sounds like there's also at least one more vocalist that had...
A second woman, vocalist Aeralie Brighton, accused Soule as well, including saying that he sent her a video of himself masturbating. It sounds like there's also at least one more vocalist that had similar experiences that didn't want to accuse him on the record. He's denied the accusations, with "These 11 year old allegations are false. I am shocked and saddened that these outrageous claims have been made." and "I don’t agree with her point of view, and I’m not at liberty to discuss."
Thanks for posting the update. I was expecting there'd be some followups from others speaking out, as there often seems to be in high profile cases. This whole thing has left me feeling pretty...
Thanks for posting the update. I was expecting there'd be some followups from others speaking out, as there often seems to be in high profile cases.
This whole thing has left me feeling pretty down. I'd read up on Soule before and knew he wasn't the greatest person. His comments about piracy, lack of follow through with Kickstarter, and ruinous DirectSong website suggested a disconnect with reality to some degree. But until now I was willing to excuse it as being artistic eccentricities. Too distracted by vision to be caught up in dealing with business or real world stuff.
These reports all fit, though. I don't have a hard time believing them. I wouldn't be surprised if more names begin to pop up in the coming weeks. The man sounds like an unlikable manipulator.
And now to say a really selfish thing... I hope I can still enjoy his music. Going back to Oblivion has always put me in a serene mood and I'd hate to lose that.
I don't expect to be buying any new songs of his, but somehow I think he'll have a hard time finding work now.
This week has basically been a flood of accusations that the Jeremy Soule one started. GamesIndustry.biz has articles about a lot of the major ones, and not all the accusations are sexual, but a...
This week has basically been a flood of accusations that the Jeremy Soule one started. GamesIndustry.biz has articles about a lot of the major ones, and not all the accusations are sexual, but a quick list of other people that have been accused other than Soule and Holowka (mostly linked to their articles):
I'm not going to get into semantics about if this is rape or ""JUST"" sexual assault due to the woman being coerced into sex. Soule is obviously a legend in the musical field, especially with...
I'm not going to get into semantics about if this is rape or ""JUST"" sexual assault due to the woman being coerced into sex. Soule is obviously a legend in the musical field, especially with video games, but this shouldn't (and I hope won't) protect him, although I fear that it just might. This entire thing happened a decade ago, and it probably will come with no legal consequences for Soule.
I think her description of the things he said to her (how everything is some mystical kind of “sexual” followed by how she won’t make it without his help) is the most telling. This is some...
I think her description of the things he said to her (how everything is some mystical kind of “sexual” followed by how she won’t make it without his help) is the most telling. This is some absolute psycho power game shit. I believe this type of behavior (even when not in a sexual context) can get you very far in a lot of careers and it needs to be called out more.
Holy shit. I'm not the kind of guy that believes in every accusation. I believe in due process, and I know many cases of people who had their lives ruined because of irresponsible claims. But, if...
Holy shit. I'm not the kind of guy that believes in every accusation. I believe in due process, and I know many cases of people who had their lives ruined because of irresponsible claims. But, if this woman is lying, she's one committed (and talented) mythomaniac. Very unlikely.
I re-typed it all into this thread: https://tildes.net/~games/h5h/alec_holowka_one_of_the_creators_of_night_in_the_woods_has_committed_suicide_after_accusations_of
Between this and Zoe Quinn's accusations against Alec Holowka, a lot of gaming internet communities are currently overflowing with extremely shitty comments and arguments. Let's do better here, please. I'd prefer not to have to moderate but I'll do it heavily on these topic(s) if needed.
Edit: Gamasutra has an article that summarizes the multiple recent accusations
You're right on this one. I only saw the reddit thread and it's already full of shit about innocent until proven guilty or no proof etc.
Soul has lawyered up, evidenced by the fact that he's deleted any social media presence of his. Lawhead of course doesn't want to get into a legal battle, and I think this post was written to get everything off her chest finally and obviously drag Soul into the court of public opinion, because she probably can't afford/does not want legal representation.
Hopefully other women come forward, so we can get some movement into this, because if Lawhead stands alone, she's going to get swallowed by the meat grinder that is the juidical system or caught between the lines of a toxic as fuck online war of rabid fans and people who support her.
As I said, most likely Soul will see no consequence. She's got no evidence, the crime has happened too long ago for any physical injuries to still be present, Lawhead unfortunately has nothing. She can only hope to break off a scandal so that Soul becomes burned country and no company contracts him as a composer. Considering the size that #MeToo needed for that to happen to Weinstein, I doubt that this will happen, unless more women come forward. And if there are more (probably, judging by her post), I hope they do.
Why is innocent until proven guilty some taboo thing that should be considered 'shit'? Why should it be the state of affairs that someone without evidence or corroboration should be able to destroy a career? Like you said right here, "She's got no evidence". That doesn't mean come out and accuse her of lying, and definitely invite anyone with similar stories to talk, but it also doesn't mean the other extreme where somebody gets burned and loses their livelihood (not to mention everybody else losing the value of their now nonexistent future work) on the basis of an unsubstantiated claim could in any way be acceptable.
There is a claim being made here of some very serious contract disputes - nothing motivates people like money, and the idea that if someone was made angry enough over feeling hard done by after financial negotiations to make other claims with the expectation that without evidence those claims could destroy careers... well that has some pretty horrific implications.
This is naive to a fault. You work with someone, you get burned, you spend a while trying different avenues to recover funds and accreditation for your work, but neither one of you can agree who is at fault and everyone is angry. So you attack the other person's reputation - not in an attempt to recover funds as you've exhausted your options there, but because you are angry and want to hurt the person or group you are angry at.
Applying a rational cost benefit analysis to something is almost the opposite of proof it wouldn't happen, because people are irrational more than not. It's not evidence either way, but while the possibilities are so open it would be crazy to take action for or against.
If you've read the post, the majority of it is actually directed against the Canadian company she freelanced for in 2008. By all accounts (and she's got proof there) it was a terrible place to work at. It'd make more sense to accuse the company's CEO or his brother or whatever of rape if she was out to destroy reputations, no? To be honest, the whole thing about Soule is mostly just thrown in there at the beginning, it's like one paragraph and the rest is about her god awful experience working for the unnamed company.
Then again, I think rape happens more often than a false rape accusation, so it makes proportionally sense to believe the woman, because it's not our job to investigate her claims. That's on the police (and they usually fuck it up, too).
Accusing someone of rape because they were difficult to work with is about on the same level as accusing them of murder. Why would this woman be different?
This is my issue with this post specifically, though my comments aren't all that specific to this case. Again though, it's not about making sense, the moment you have an accusation of rape, somebody has done something irrational whether it was true or not.
The difference with murder is somebody has to be missing for that to be at all plausible.
Why? The post in particular deals with her work experience in a foreign country. Lawhead was in an awful position and Soul took advantage of that. I don't think there's that much more to write about, to be honest. The problems at work themselves require more explanation, since she has loads of emails to give context to.
I'd love to understand the reasoning behind this. If someone accuses someone else of rape, it could be from years of desperate and irrational attempts to suppress and "move on" from the memory. How is that irrational?
I think the point he was trying to make was that, when an accusation of rape occurs, either someone committed the crime (which is irrational) and someone accused them (which is rational, like you said), or someone falsely accused someone (which is irrational). Because of this, true or not, someone did something irrational.
I see, thanks for clarifying.
Why not simply attack them for not paying you what you agreed upon?
So you're saying that women would want to introduce harassment and disbelief into their lives, all in the vague hope of....being....paid?
That argument falls apart when you realize that the same thing could be said about virtually any crime. Hell it could be said about rape/sexual assault itself. Why would anyone risk their entire career/reputation/family/livelihood for a brief power trip and a few minutes of sexual gratification?
It's not a rational decision to make, and yet tens of thousands of people in the US make it every year, so pretending that people always make rational decisions makes no sense.
Yes, because, as we all know, nothing bad ever happens to those who accuse others of rape. They all live happy lives free of harassment and ridicule.
Isn't that a form of the broken window fallacy? It assumes others won't come along and snatch up the same talent to make their respective video games.
Her post wasn't explicit about this, but my reading was that she was coerced into sex against her wishes. As such there may not have been physical injuries or evidence of foul play.
That's not to say that it isn't a real rape. If your livelihood depends on complying, then it's not real consent. Though legally it may be more complicated. Outside of filing a police report I don't know what else she could have done.
I would hope that there is some law which would apply.
It's a little off-topic for this thread overall (maybe I should have edited the link/title to point to the Gamasutra article or another more comprehensive one instead of just leaving it about Soule specifically?), but Scott Benson (one of the main people behind Night in the Woods) has made some statements about Alec Holowka now.
From Scott Benson's personal account:
And on the Night in the Woods account
That was a hard read. If the accusations are true, I hope Lawhead is able to find justice and healing, and that Soule is held responsible for his actions. I don't know anything about the guy but I believe the blog post. Of course I'm mad at people who rape people; but beyond that I'm mad that so many creators of things I enjoy do terrible things.
The Skyrim soundtrack is fantastic, and now I won't be able to listen to it without picturing a skeezy man preying on and manipulating a colleague in a vulnerable situation. The #meToo movement is empowering and enlightening, and it's something we need. At the same time it's casting dark shadows over so much beloved art. I have so much more respect for creators who maintain upstanding personal lives, but even so I now can't help but wonder if they're actually clean or just better at keeping their victims quiet. It's tragic that it's so hard to know who's actually a decent human being. We have more visibility on this now than ever before, so I'm not complaining about #meToo, the real shame is that we're discovering that good people are actually rarer than we once believed.
It's hard to express what feels like a selfish, how-does-this-affect-me byproduct of the #metoo movement that is trying one's darnedest to avoid consuming problematic media/art tied to terrible people, but it's also not entirely selfish, as it helps us steer and expose ourselves toward other media alternatives, away from the ones made by horrible people. And if you're like me you sort of build this mental blacklist of artists to avoid, and it inadvertently comes up in conversation, which helps solidify their bad reputation in history, as it should be.
I've kind of just made an agreement with myself that I'm going to try my darnedest to avoid terrible people's work until they're either dead or mostly out-of-work/box-office poison. And if I ever do find myself somehow succumbing to consuming their work before either of those qualifiers are met (or I guess, even after), it's typically a very sullied experience just as you'd mentioned-- I'm mentally not able to separate the art from the artist, I continue to (almost involuntarily) remind myself that this person is an asshole.
Let's assume for a second that you know exactly whose allegations are real, and whose are not, and manage to exactly avoid only the real ones… then you're still highly likely to consume the content of those who haven't been caught yet.
"Separate the artist from the art" has been a problem since forever; the creative community is stereotypically filled with people who are more broken than the average community, living the "broken artist" fantasy, etc. And, well, on average, most people do do shitty things. Being famous is being in the spotlight, sometimes literally. Your past does end up resurfacing. Sometimes it's really nasty illegal shit, sometimes it's an out-of-context comment you made when you were 19 and drunk.
I think it's fine to go out of your way to avoid supporting work from clearly bad people/companies (where "bad" can both be "morally repugnant" or "dangerous for the earth" or what have you). I do that sometimes. For example, I'm boycotting all new Disney movies for the foreseeable future due to the bullshit Mulan's actress pulled about HK. But I also think it's equally toxic to try to avoid everything, especially the less-substanciated rumors. It feeds a toxic culture of outrage-addiction, which lives on top of an already toxic celebrity-worship culture.
I think, a big part of "social justice" is "if the justice system itself is failing, people and companies should still face consequences for their wrongdoings". Which is commendable, right up until it becomes a vigilante that seeks out people to dish it to.
She's a shining example of the desperation that I've seen others talk about. Her position basically made her a pawn, she was fighting get a foot in the door they kept basically cutting off, despite apparently being in demand, as everybody wanted to keep her around and bring her back after she'd had enough of their non-paying BS, unless that's a manipulation I don't know about. There is a lot more to this than the Jeremy Soule thing.
I wonder if her story is going to get a bunch of other people to come out. If he views women as his "muse," he has to have done this more than once for inspiration.
Good. Shitty people deserve to get called out for their shittiness.
A second woman, vocalist Aeralie Brighton, accused Soule as well, including saying that he sent her a video of himself masturbating. It sounds like there's also at least one more vocalist that had similar experiences that didn't want to accuse him on the record. He's denied the accusations, with "These 11 year old allegations are false. I am shocked and saddened that these outrageous claims have been made." and "I don’t agree with her point of view, and I’m not at liberty to discuss."
Lots more detail in this Kotaku article from last night: Two Women Accuse Skyrim Composer Jeremy Soule Of Sexual Misconduct
Thanks for posting the update. I was expecting there'd be some followups from others speaking out, as there often seems to be in high profile cases.
This whole thing has left me feeling pretty down. I'd read up on Soule before and knew he wasn't the greatest person. His comments about piracy, lack of follow through with Kickstarter, and ruinous DirectSong website suggested a disconnect with reality to some degree. But until now I was willing to excuse it as being artistic eccentricities. Too distracted by vision to be caught up in dealing with business or real world stuff.
These reports all fit, though. I don't have a hard time believing them. I wouldn't be surprised if more names begin to pop up in the coming weeks. The man sounds like an unlikable manipulator.
And now to say a really selfish thing... I hope I can still enjoy his music. Going back to Oblivion has always put me in a serene mood and I'd hate to lose that.
I don't expect to be buying any new songs of his, but somehow I think he'll have a hard time finding work now.
This week has basically been a flood of accusations that the Jeremy Soule one started. GamesIndustry.biz has articles about a lot of the major ones, and not all the accusations are sexual, but a quick list of other people that have been accused other than Soule and Holowka (mostly linked to their articles):
I'm not going to get into semantics about if this is rape or ""JUST"" sexual assault due to the woman being coerced into sex. Soule is obviously a legend in the musical field, especially with video games, but this shouldn't (and I hope won't) protect him, although I fear that it just might. This entire thing happened a decade ago, and it probably will come with no legal consequences for Soule.
I think her description of the things he said to her (how everything is some mystical kind of “sexual” followed by how she won’t make it without his help) is the most telling. This is some absolute psycho power game shit. I believe this type of behavior (even when not in a sexual context) can get you very far in a lot of careers and it needs to be called out more.
You mean the willingness to be aggressive in taking what you want? I mean obviously, it's what modern careers are based on.
Yea? I’m not sure: Are you defending it?
Not at all, I was only unsure about what you meant.
Holy shit. I'm not the kind of guy that believes in every accusation. I believe in due process, and I know many cases of people who had their lives ruined because of irresponsible claims. But, if this woman is lying, she's one committed (and talented) mythomaniac. Very unlikely.
A serious update re: Alec Holowka.
https://twitter.com/derangedpoetess/status/1167855630385909760
Oh god. I'm going to make a separate post about that.
The account is now protected. What did it say?
I re-typed it all into this thread: https://tildes.net/~games/h5h/alec_holowka_one_of_the_creators_of_night_in_the_woods_has_committed_suicide_after_accusations_of