Advice on insomnia due to noise pollution?
Hey there, curious if any other folks on tildes suffer with this, and if so, if you can share things that have helped you.
Context: I am a very light sleeper. Eg: the sound of a phone vibrating, or whispering, will wake me up. I have no issues falling asleep at night, nor do I have any anxiety around sleep, I just wake up from the slightest noise. I've been like this all my life.
Unfortunately, I also live in a very noisy neighborhood: lots of modded vehicles, lots of rumbling bass, etc. I wake up 2-5 times a night. I might get a full night sleep once every 2 months.
For the past year, I've been working very hard on solving this problem. I have made some progress, but still suffer nightly because of this. Things I've done:
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Noise masking: I now have 2 white noise machines, an air purifier (max volume), and sleep with ear plugs. Unbelievably, the cars are still loud enough to be heard over all of that and wake me up. Even when I can't hear them, they vibrate the floor/my bed, and the vibration wakes me up. However, this has still made a massive difference (I went from about 3-4 hours sleep/night, to 6-7.)
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Sleep hygiene. I've learned a lot about it, and worked hard to implement different techniques. I keep a very steady sleep schedule. I eat well and exercise. I do not get in bed ever unless for sleep. etc. While this does not prevent waking up from noise, I think it helps with keeping sleep consistent (i.e. at least I know what time I'll get tired at night.)
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Light: In similar vein of sleep hygiene, I've learned a lot about how light impacts our sleep wake cycles; I avoid light and screens in the evening, and get in direct sunlight (for about 20-30 minutes) within an hour of waking. Again, doesn't help with noise, but helps tremendously with keeping sleep consistent.
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Medical help: I see a neurologist / sleep specialist. He is wonderful He prescribed a low dose of gabapentin, which has actually been really helpful. Unfortunately, it only lasts about 4 hours, so while the first half of the night is good, I still wake up many times in the second half of the night. I have tried some other medications (trazadone, benadryl, zyrtec) but they have either had no impact (trazadone), or make you drowsy the next day which makes me miserable (bendaryl, zyrtec).
One slight annoyance is that whenever I bring up sleep issues, the first response I tend to get is "you must have anxiety". Then, advice is tailored to that. Really, it is not anxiety, and therapy will not help me here. I just wake up insanely easy. It seems most solutions are for folks with anxiety, and I don't find a lot for folks that are just light sleepers. Can anyone relate?
Any advice you can throw my way?
I have had silicone earplugs made to measure and it has literally saved my life. Our apartment is on the first floor facing the street and it can get very noisy. The worst is the bins being taken out at before 5am in time for the trash truck which passes around 6am. Right under my bedroom window.
Usually these can be made by an audiologist (the kind that make hearing aids). They inject silicone into your ear canal, let it set for a bit, then send the mold to be turned into silicone earplugs. They look like this:
https://www.earplugstore.com/custom-sleeping-ear-plugs.html
They are very good at reducing noise, I can't sleep without them anymore.
Holy. Shit. This exists?
I was literally just cursing life the last few days saying "why aren't custom silicon earplugs a thing?!?" (I sleep with "mack's silicon earplugs" nightly, but they can be tricky for me to get a good seal with, which is what made me start cursing life). Honestly, it would be worth the price. I already spend $5/month or so on the mack's plugs.
I have so many questions... how long have you had them?! How long have they lasted?! Does insurance pay for this at all (you mentioned going through an audiologist)? Have you ever tried disposables like macks, and how have they compared? P.S. Curse those 5am bins!
Yes they exist!! Happy to answer any questions!
I've had mine for at least 3 or 4 years I'd say. You're supposed to change them every 4 years as apparently your ears continue to grow but I've not noticed any loss of noise reduction to date.
I'm in France, our version of health insurance doesn't cover this. Mine cost about €100-ish to get both done but not sure how much it would cost elsewhere. The price was totally worth it for me, but you need to be careful not to lose them (or accidentally swallow one...long story). When I lost one the audiologist still had the mold so I didn't have to go back and get it re-done, just ordered the one side and paid half the amount. If you can afford it buy a spare pair.
I used disposables for a while before, including the moldable wax ones. There is no comparison, these things slip right in and stay there. My ear canals are also very small and narrow and that wasn't a problem.
I will say it takes a week or two to get used to them being in there. They're not soft like disposable, they're like a hard rubber, so it can feel uncomfortable or hurt a bit at first. Think inserting a (I'm so sorry) tiny dildo in your ears. This is the best way I can describe it.
Some cons:
This is the best description I have ever read of an earplug haha thank you, I needed a good laugh
I am meeting with my doctor in a couple hours, and I'm planning to ask for the referral to the audiologist so that I can look into this, so the additional info is really helpful here. The timing was amazing to learn about these, I can't thank you enough! Even if they are €100, for 4 years, damn I would spend more than that on disposable silicon earplugs. I'm so glad these have worked for you.
Glad I could help! You're probably at the doctor by now so I hope it goes well for you! If your doctor doesn't know who to refer you to, you might be able to find someone online. I didn't need a prescription, just looked for a place that makes custom silicone earplugs and went to the closest one with good reviews. I'd maybe make sure it's somewhere legit, like a place that also makes hearing aids or custom earplugs for professional use (like construction).
Oh and also don't be alarmed during the mold making process - they use something that looks like a caulking gun to insert the material to make the mold.
Best of luck, I wish you only good sleep in your future!!!
I know it's not what you want to hear, but I'm afraid your options are basically move to a rural area where nobody is going to drive by or deal with it. I know how annoying it can be to get woken up in the night so having it happen several times every night must be frustrating, to say the least.
Do you have trouble getting back to sleep? If not, the best advice might just be to accept it--most people wake up multiple times in the night and simply don't remember it. In fact, as far as we're aware, staying asleep (or close to it) all night is a relatively modern phenomenon (at least in the West) and people historically tended to sleep in two blocks with a period of wakefulness in the middle of the night. From Wikipedia:
Sounds like that middle time was fun for all.
I'm sad to say that I actually live in a rural location. But all it takes is one or two people with no muffler to drive by and that night of sleep is screwed. Or neighbor dogs. Or people shouting outside. Or the feral cats deciding to have a fight. I don't know how to escape this stuff. I have a dream of living so rural so that I don't have any neighbors for miles, but it is not attainable right now, and probably not for a few years.
I don't mind waking up if I can go back to sleep. If I wake up after 2 hours, no problem. After 4 hours (usually) no problem. But by the time I get to 5 hours, yeah, it becomes difficult to get back to sleep. I tend to get woken every 2-3 hours so it just unescapable.
Yes, I've read about this actually. In fact, for about 2 years I kept a bi-modal sleep schedule similar to this, where I would sleep in 4 hours chunks, with about 3-4 hours in between. It worked for a long time, but honestly, my body just can't handle it any longer.
haha people will always find ways to keep themselves entertained
I should mention this really isn't me just complaining or wanting everything to be perfect, it has a serious impact on my day to day quality of life.
haha, rural living confirmed!
Have you tried soundproof earbuds playing whitenoise? And maybe using some rubber matting behind the headboard and under the feet of the bed to help absorb the vibrations?
Exactly this haha. There is... a lot of loud noise. It's not a constant stream of noise, but when it's there it can be loud. Yeah, the road might be deserted for 5 hours straight. Then all of a sudden some jackass decides to go by in their giant truck with no catalytic converter at 2 am. Then another. Then another..
I have so much white noise playing in my room already, and so loud, that if I increase the volume anymore it will hurt my ears. I also have some struggles with earbuds. That said, any particular recommendations? When you say soundproof earbuds is this something like noise canceling?
Rubber matting under the feet is a good idea. The headboard doesn't touch the wall so I don't really get issues there, it's just the shaking from the ground. I have a carpet I was going to try laying down but rubber is probably even better.
Yes I meant noise canceling, not soundproof. Sorry, hadn't had my morning coffee yet. I could've swore I had a pair, but I just checked the listing online and they weren't noise canceling (I may have been getting them mixed up with a pair of noise canceling headphones I owned). Sorry I can't be much more help! I would just think that if it was actively cancelling external noise while providing the white noise it might help fully mask the sound.
OK that makes sense. No problem at all. Yes, noise canceling headphones are wonderful, and I find they do work very well. To be honest, i avoid wearing them for long periods due to past issues with vertigo. There are obscure reports about BPPV after prolonged, continuous use of NC headphones (in the case of this report, 12 hours of continuous use). I could see it due to the vibrations being emitted in the ear. I know it is probably unlikely, but I am too spooked to wear them for more than an hour or so. BPPV is too miserable, and there's no where local to me to get it treated any longer, so I would be SOL. That is in fact one of the things that limits me here, I am just so cautious about my ears now.
I genuinely wish there were just noise pollution laws, that were actually enforced. That said, if there were, I know they would never be enforced in rural areas lol
I wish I could read that study...I wonder if she was using noise cancelling headphones without listening to anything. That usually feels weird immediately. I can't imagine doing it for 12 hours. I also wouldn't think that wearing them while asleep could cause the same issues...it might be worth risking one bad day with vertigo to see if you can solve this problem once and for all.
the problem with BPPV, is that it's not just one bad day with vertigo (at least not for everyone or every occurrence). Small calcium particles become dislodged and travel into the inner ear canals; when they're loose there, moving your head (tilting it, looking up, whatever) can cause them to tumble into the little hairs in the canals that help your brain perceive your relative position in space, hence vertigo because your brain is receiving this conflicting information about your orientation. Until the loose particles are gone from the inner canal(s), vertigo can keep occurring if you move your head around. Last time i had it, it was 2 months before it was successfully treated, followed by 4 months of endless risidual dizziness and vestibular migraines. In those 2 months until it was treated, I would wake up vomiting because I had flipped over in my sleep or something and the room was spinning and i'd become motion sick as a result.
By the way, it is not the same for everyone, and for some people it's super brief and not a big deal, so I don't intend to be alarmist. In fact, I'd assume for most people it's a relatively uneventful and painless ordeal; maybe the particles fall out of the canals on their own, or dissolve, or a very brief meeting with a doctor or physical therapist resolves it. Maybe they only experience vertigo once or twice while they have it. Additionally, the vertigo spells that do happen while someone has BPPV are very brief (30 seconds - 1 minute), unlike other vestibular disorders where veritgo can last a long time. Not everyone gets residual symptoms as well; I assume that probably happens the longer and more severely BPPV impacted you. Also, that was only one study. At the same time, definitely look after your ears, and appreciate them for all they do (not just hearing, but the ability to balance, sense direction, etc.) They are incredible. And do be aware of BPPV, as it's one of the most, if not the most, common causes of vertigo. It can happen as a result of head injury and several other things. It is actually very easy to treat by someone who knows what they are doing, so that's a great thing.
I slept poorly for years and I couldn't solve it until I moved. I mean, I still sleep poorly on occasion for other reasons, but the noise specifically. Soundproofing the room didn't help. Sleeping pills didn't help. Earplugs helped, but also made one of my ears swell and were starting to give me tinnitus.
I do commonly wake up in the middle of the night but this doesn't seem to correlate to sleep quality.
I'm happy to hear you were able to solve this issue. I definitely want to move more rural and honestly just be away from people and neighbors. I can't see any other solution to noise pollution. One can dream...
By the way, do be careful with ear plugs. A lot of people use them endlessly (like I used to). great way to get ear infections. Definitely be cautious about reusing earplugs safely. Also, they can cause ear wax to get impacted, which can cause issues like tinnitus. I had to visit an audiologist to have wax removed due to this years ago! I thought I was going deaf because I could no longer hear much of anything in my left ear; turned out I had this ball of wax shoved up in my ear canal. Personally, I recommend silicone earplugs - I only learned they existed about 6 months ago. They don't actually go inside your ear canal, but go around the opening.
I had no wax while I was using the earplugs, it was weird. Before using them, I had too much of it, and regularly had to get it cleaned (every two years or so). These days it seems fine, but maybe it'll go back to excessive wax production given enough time, since I moved less than a year ago.
I remember being told the silicone earplugs blocked less noise than foam, and they were also more expensive, so I never really got into them.
Yeah, silicon earplugs do block less noise, and they are also more expensive, this is all true. I use them because I have vestibular issues, particularly vertigo due to BPPV. I have read on occasion of BPPV relapses associated with long term use of in-ear earplugs. I have no idea if these claims are legitimate (they could be BS), but BPPV is miserable enough that I don't care to chance it haha.
But even with foam earplugs, again just make sure to be diligent about hygiene. It's tempting to keep reusing them, especially to save money, but they collect a ton of bacteria. I don't want to make claims here as I am not confident in the specifics (how long to use, how to clean, etc.), but it is absolutely worth doing some research about if you rely on them!
I did not read the whole article because it is loooong, but what I'm seeing seems to be a non-historian writing basically "yeah, but, like, not everyone woke up and not everyone who did wake up socialized!" Which seems to be fairly self-evident...what did I miss in skipping much of the article?
Off topic I suppose, but I want to say it's really interesting how often this happens (or how easy it is for this to happen), in so many different domains. It has made me start being even more a skeptic about many things. Thanks for sharing that paper, I'm curious to read it in depth.
I was watching a podcast with a PHD who worked on sleep related stuff and he basically said the studies they've done have shown that the 2 periods of sleep was pretty much entirely proven to negatively affect people.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2352721821000309
From what I've seen, most studies on biphasic sleep are basically studies on napping, and IIRC studies where people are removed from artificial light for weeks/months show them naturally switching to biphasic sleep. That doesn't necessarily mean that people who have artificial light will do better with biphasic sleep, just that it's more common in 100% natural situations.
I'm a big believer in the "whatever works for you works for you" doctrine so I won't entirely poo poo on it, but it seems like one of those trends that the self-help gurus push for a few years until people forget about it or its debunked, like "blue light is harmful to your eyes and makes it less likely for you to fall asleep" or "anti-perspirants with aluminum in them cause cancer" both of which have been proven false or negligible.
Do you have a link to any such study? (Showing that people removed from artificial light switch to biphasic sleep?) I'd be interested to read that. If you don't have, that's OK and no pressure.
I can't find it...I may have been mixing up studies because I can find similar ones that only lasted a week and only looked at melatonin levels but I could have sworn that the study I remembered was a big deal because of how long they were able to keep the people isolated in the wilderness and a week just isn't very long.
Don't worry about it - I don't want to put you on a browser history rabbithole or anything. Just wasn't sure if you had a copy on hand. Yes, I could definitely see the impact on melatonin levels if artificial light sources are removed, as light directly suppresses melatonin production; another good thing to keep in mind in our modern day society where we are constantly bombarded by lights.
If you happen to come across the study you are thinking of at some point in the future, please do feel free to share it if you wish.
afaik studies have shown that humans or animals without sunlight fall into their "natural" circadian rhythm, and that for humans this cycle is usually longer than 24 hours, but that this differs from person to person. This study from the 70s in Journal of Physiology handily sums up its participants' sleep patterns in its abstract, but none of the participants have anything that corresponds to a biphasic sleep schedule. My understanding is that the scientific evidence for biphasic sleep is quite weak.
Isn't that the opposite of what I was saying? You're talking about a circadian rhythm without sunlight and I'm talking about one exclusively with sunlight. But you may be right; I'm just going off of memory.
Rereading your comment I do see that you said "without artificial light" tather than "without light", sorry! I must've read your comment too fast.
That said, my understanding is that when exposed to sunlight humans' (and other animals') sleep-wakefulness cycles tend to correspond pretty closely to the day-night cycle, which obviously isn't biphasic, and that artifical light is often blamed for disrupting that relationship. Upon googling I wasn't able to find any credible sources discussing human sleep cycles in the absence of artifical light, just a bunch of... pop sci? I guess? health-adjacent articles without any citations, some of which made the biphasic claim. By contrast, the sleep study I mentioned earlier from the 70s was one of the first results when I googled "human sleep cycle without sun", so it's not like I went digging for that one. So if that biphasic study actually exists it requires more tham the cursory search I'm willing to make lol
If you’re finding it far too easy to wake up even with a small amount of noise, have you considered trying to sound-treat your bedroom? I’m no acoustic engineer or podcaster or anything, so I’d seek advice first (maybe you can’t acoustically isolate outside noise and you can only suppress internal echoes? I dunno) but if you can deaden the outside sounds even more, maybe that combined with the white noise etc you have set up might help?
Another option in a similar vein is if your bed rattles/shakes as vehicles pass by, have you tried cushioning a bunch under where your bed frame meets the floor? For example; when I was at uni, I briefly had three mattresses stacked on top of each other to get to normal bed height, but because there was no rigid bed frame to transfer the physical movements, I literally slept through an (admittedly minor) earthquake.
This is a great point. I do believe it could have a huge impact, so anyone else who is in a similar problem, this is really worth pursuing if you are able. I do think the windows where I live are a huge part of the problem. They are seriously broken, not the glass but the window frames themselves, which are becoming detached from the wall, and so let air in. My landlords are cheap and won't fix this kind of stuff unfortunately.
One idea I have is cutting a sheet of plexiglass to fit the size of the window opening, and then surrounding the plexiglass with some sort of foam, and just shoving it in the window opening itself (the window frame is set about 2 inches into the wall). I know it won't be impenetrable, but I bet it would deaden a lot of sound. Not possible in the summer due to window ACs (which further exacerbate the problem), but in the wintertime, this would be possible to install.
Thanks a million man, I had forgotten about this idea and it gives me some seriously renewed hope.
This is very smart, and no I never considered that. I have to put some thought into how best to do this. I even wonder if the hard floors themselves make an impact, and if carpet beneath might not transfer that vibration as well.
Hard floors will 100 percent change the acoustics of a room.
Very interesting! I have one large carpet. I wonder if putting that under my bed will have an impact on the vibration. I've got to try this out!
I think you could try those rubber draft blockers for the space under your door, but put them on the plexi glass edges? You might have to cut them to size though.
Also, have you tried hydroxyziene or melatonin gummies?
Melatonin doesn't make you sleep; it just alerts your body that it's bedtime.
Hey that's seriously smart idea for the plexiglass edges! I will also need to come up with some sort of handle so that I can actually get the plexiglass in and out of the set-in in the wall. I love this dude's creative solution. Unfortunately, I don't have windows like this (no window sill), but it did inspire me to come up with creative plexiglass solutions.
I came to here to make a similar suggestion, but you did it much better.
Yes, this is actually probably the best chance I have, now that I think about it. Grateful for the suggestion of it. I think one unfortunate problem is that in the summertime it is just not possible to soundproof the windows effectively due to window ACs. It is incredibly hot here in the summer, and not possible to live without those. They unfortunately let a lot of sound through just by their design. At the same time, they produce a fair bit of sound themselves, which masks noise :)
I have ultramodern windows where I live and they make a noticeable ( though far from complete ) difference with noise. Even if you need to use window units better windows could help a little bit.
Perhaps with some work you could sound proof the gaps between your window units and your window frame.
Man, I have tried so hard to do this. I am just not very inventive, it seems. If anyone has advice, I'm all ears. I have tried weather stripping, etc., but the impact is minimal. I recently got some calk, I think that might help. Any chance you are aware of any specific type of calm which might be best for a situation like that?
I am 100% on board a believer in the impact of better windows. I noticed it myself honestly when I was putting up the plexiglass over my window AC. The moment I put that thing in the window, the impact was astounding, even though it was a really thin plexiglass. It made me wonder just how much different would be with thicker plexiglass, or without the air gaps on the frame, etc.
Maybe a professional handyman could do a better job?
They definitely could. Unfortunately, it's just not an option for me right now. I just need to do some more due diligence here, I think. I'm confident I can some up with some solution, even if it's an ugly, or slightly crappy one! (it will still be better than doing nothing.)
I also have a lot of issues with sleep and gabapentin is one of the only things that routinely works. 4 hours seems very low, though. What dosage are you on? 300mg a couple of hours before bed does the trick for me 90% of the time.
Interesting. Are your issues mostly related to noise waking you up?
I take 200mg before bed. Maybe I will experiment with trying 300mg before bed (my neurologist has given me the go-ahead to play around with the doses a bit, up to 400mg max). I know the difference between 100mg and 200mg was big, so maybe 300mg will do the trick. Thank you for the idea. About it lasting half the night: my neurologist mentioned that it's not unexpected for it to only last half the night. From what I understood from him, it's difficult to find a medication for sleep that will last the whole night, but that doesn't have a "hangover" affect the next day (i.e. morning drowsiness.) However, I could have misunderstood, or perhaps it's different from person to person. Also, maybe I just haven't taken a high enough dose.
Just curious - how long have you been on gabapentin, and have you developed any tolerance to it? For me, it's definitely the best of the medications I have tried. However, I worry about it losing its effectiveness over time (I'm not even sure if tolerance is a concern with gabapentin, I'm going to ask my doctor about that.)
I’ve been on it for close to a decade at this point, and haven’t built tolerance that I’ve noticed. I originally started taking it for nerve pain from a lower back injury, and found that it super helped with my sleep.
As far as noise, yes. Noise, light, physical sensations… all keep me up. The gabapentin just seems to help make me actually drowsy and then get me to a deeper sleep once I do fall asleep. I do sometimes have a little bit of grogginess in the mornings, but it wears off quickly and I much prefer that to absolutely shit sleep.
Wow - this is incredibly re-assuring to read (that you have been on it so long, and haven't built a tolerance.) Thank you for sharing that.
I'm planning to try a 300mg dose tonight, and hoping that does the trick.
This has been exactly my experience with it - I don't know what it's doing, but it just seems to help me get into a deeper sleep so that stuff doesn't rouse you. I'm the same way - light, sensations, whatever, they all wake me. And yeah, the shit sleep just wrecks your quality of life if it goes on long enough. I really wish I knew the reason why some people seem to naturally go into deeper sleeps while others of us don't. It's as fascinating as it is annoying!
Can you fall asleep without the gabapentin, and take it later in the night instead? As long as you are not too drowsy in the morning.
My neurologist suggested something similar; we'd thought of taking the regular dose before sleep, then when I wake up in the night, take a bit more. However, I like the idea of falling asleep without it, and then just taking the regular dose in the middle of the night when I wake up (and then if I luckily don't wake up, I just wouldn't take it that night). Thanks for this idea, I will try this out, and will bring it up to my doctor as well.
To be honest, I was taking ceterizine (zyrtec) for sleep for so long, which made me incredibly drowsy throughout the day, so any affects from gabapentin seem like nothing compared to that. I've never taken a full dose of gabapentin in the night though and seen how I feel after, I will have to see what that's like.
Hey man, I wanted to say that I tried 300mg last night (rather than my normal 200mg). The difference was noticeable, and I actually did sleep better. Not sure if it's because I was so tired or what, but I'm gonna try it again. Thanks a lot for sharing this experience, I really hope 300mg is the sweet spot.
Awesome! I hope you get dialed in on a dose that works well for you.
One thing that I think wasn’t mentioned here: have you tried investigating if you have sleep apneia? I had and had no ideia of it, always thought I was a light sleeper. My Apple Watch warned me my o2 was getting low during the night, so I went to a doctor, had some exams done and that was it, moderate sleep apneia. Got a surgery done and now my sleep quality is much better, finally I have deep sleep episodes during the night and now it is much harder for a sound to wake me up.
This is really smart, and again appreciate this being brought up. Actually my neurologist tested me for this, as sleep apnea runs in my family; apparently we all have the same sort of narrow neck or jawline? We are all on the thin side yet all immediate family had bad sleep apnea, so it was overlooked for example in my mom for years. Luckily, my results were negative.
By the way, interesting to hear you had surgery done. I didn't even know this was a thing. I'll have to mention this to my mom (who has sleep apnear).
To add to this, in case anyone stumbles on this thread with similar sleep issues: there are home sleep apnea tests these days (I was unaware of this until my neurologist ordered the test). They shipped me a kit, I hooked myself up and slept with it for one night, then mailed it back, and a couple weeks later I got the results. There are overnight sleep studies as well which are way more accurate, but it seems common to have these at-home tests ordered as a starting point.
By the way, if anyone here does one of the at-home tests, I'd encourage you to do your homework on how to use those kits properly before you hook them up. There are multiple ways to invalidate some of those tests, and it would be easy to do so and not realize it (nor would the doctor realize it). For example, on the one I took (watch pat one), if you take the little finger diode off once the adhesive has discharged (for example if you get up to go to the bathroom), the test will be invalidated. There is no "test invalidated" result afaik, and rather the result will just be negative. That info about not removing the finger piece was not included in the instructions the medical facility sent with me for the kit; I only found out because I called the manufacturer up prior to taking the test, and asked for advice. My mom has severe sleep apnea, yet her results for the watch pat one came back negative - we suspect it's because she removed that diode during the night and invalidated the test, and no one was the wiser. This is not a complaint on the at-home tests - amazing that they exist. Rather, just a bit of advice to perhaps call the manufacturer prior to taking your test, and see if they have additional info beyond what your doctor's office provides, to ensure you get the most accurate results.
Interestingly, I had low ferritin levels (6 μg/L), and my doctor prescribed me iron supplements. They have made a world of difference in my life. The unexpected side effect is that, I actually have a more difficult time with sleep now; before the supplements, I was so exhausted from the low ferritin it seems, that I would just fall back asleep if I woke up in the night. Now that things are improving there, and I don't have that daytime exhaustion, I don't fall back asleep as easily. :) Not really relevant, just kind a fun reminder that sometimes problems in life actually help out in other areas and we don't even realize it. (by the way, it's not a complaint, I really do mean this in a lighthearted way; I am incredibly grateful for those iron supplements.)
I've heard similar things about magnesium levels. Perhaps OP could visit an RD that works with an MD so s/he can prescribe blood tests and let them know what they are low on.
I'm really fortunate in that that we have an RD in my GP's office, so they work together and exchange notes. I would seriously recommend this service to anyone who has it available, by the way, even if you just try it one or two sessions. Very helpful.
Yeah, I had a few nutritional deficiencies after a bout of malnutrition from GI issues that made eating difficult. Luckily, now on medication for the GI issues for about a year, the nutritional deficiencies have all but resolved (I have been getting regular blood tests to monitor). However, that ferritin was a real stickler. It is just difficult to get all the nutrition needed, even with the RD. Iron supplements are a godsend to at least build it back up. Insane to me how much difference it made on my fatigue.
By the way, another useful thing, I've discovered, is iron fortified cereal :) Total is a good one, and pretty easy to find.
What surprised me the most about going to see such an RD is that it takes a long time to resolve nutritional deficiencies. It isn't like visiting a gas station and filling up.
That has been a surprise for me as well. When I saw how much of an impact iron supplements were making in my life, I actually asked the doctor if it was possible to get a transfusion. They declined, because that appears to be more for if the supplements don't work (which makes sense - and indeed the pills seem to be working, so seems I do not need that.) The doctor told me it could take a few months for the levels to get back to normal on the supplements, but honestly I already started to feel much better after 2 weeks.
Definitely avoid getting malnourished. I am still paying the price for that, though it went on for a while, so that might be why. I know a lot is talked about with obesity, and understandably of course, but being very underweight or being malnourished is also so terrible for your body. I'm much more diligent about it now. Better late than never to find out, I guess.
By the way, a random thing I learned, is to avoid taking biotin prior to blood tests (which is commonly found in multivitamins). As I understand, it can skew certain results (gives false highs or lows). I'm not sure which ones. here's a random paper. Would be worth looking into, to understand the specifics of how long to avoid it before a blood test (I am hesitant to throw out any specifics, as I don't want to post faulty information.)
Do you get regular, vigorous exercise?
Have you been to a Registered Dietician who can order blood tests to see if anything is too low in your system?
Have you considered herbal medicine? It might be easier on your system than medication over the long term.
Herbs for Stress & Anxiety by Rosemary Gladstar
I do get regular (daily) exercise (and by the way, it's definitely helped). I would consider my exercise moderate rather than vigorous, but I could be wrong. I did have several nutritional deficiencies (now restored), and my ferritin levels are still low (but on iron supplements prescribed by my doctor). However, this sensitivity to noise for sleep has been a problem my entire life. Interestingly, as my ferritin levels have improved, my sleep has gotten worse, because I am no longer so exhausted from the low iron :)
I haven't looked into herbal medicine before. To be honest, I have always been fairly uncomfortable with those sorts of things, because the industry in the united states at least, is unregulated, and I always think "how can you trust this?" (If you have thoughts in this regard - I am more than willing to hear, because I don't want to miss out on a good thing.) I do not have any desires to be on medication long term, for sure. Unfortunately, I genuinely do not believe my sleep issues are due to anxiety or stress. But it is never a bad thing to work on those. I definitely try to work on managing stress, it's a goal in my life.
To be honest herbal remedies are not exact. Making them work takes experimentation. The advantage is that many medicinal herbs have been used for centuries. People know what they will do.
That's a fair point. Just curious, but how do you feel confident you are actually getting what you purchase? When I spoke about things being unregulated, that's probably the biggest concern I'm talking about. Seems someone could say "this is A" and essentially ship you B and who would even know? Do you just end up finding sources you trust or something?
I am fortunate enough to live near an old fashioned herbal medicine shop that sells bulk herbal medicines by weight.
I get the actual dried leaves, dried flowers, dried roots and mix them myself.
I make infusions ( "tea" of the herbs soaked in boiled water) myself.
It won’t help with the noise, but you can get blackout curtains to help with the light. The cars and streetlights are probably polluting the inside of your room.
Good blackout curtains are heavy. They’ll filter out most but not all light in daytime (at least mine do), but at night they’ll make the room pitch black.
Besides those and silicon earplugs, a job with semi-flexible hours also helps with my sleep. Personally I have trouble getting into a rhythm of falling asleep and waking up at the exact same time.
Yes, I have theater grade blackout curtains for every window. The one thing I do have set up well in my home is lighting; it is pitch black when I sleep. Anyone else reading this thread, I second this advice. And like @Jakobeha is saying - look carefully about the type of blackout curtains you get - they are not all made equally. You can buy cheap ones online, they might even say "100% blackout" but often you'll put them up and find there's still a ton of light coming inside. The ones I have are "Sun Zero 100% theater grade blackout curtains". 0 light comes in through those curtains. They are very heavy, so get decent curtain rods to hold them up.
You know what, I had this problem as well, and had always been this way. I will share the thing that finally made a difference for me (in case it's helpful): getting about 20-30 minutes of direct sunlight, at the same time every morning, within about an hour of waking.
As far as I understand, there are special cells in the eye that help set circadian rhythm. Here is a random paper. When you view sunlight in the morning, it helps set this circadian rhythm.(see reference below). For about two weeks I started going outside at the exact same time every morning and getting that 20-30 minutes of sunlight (would use it as an excuse for a morning walk). Additionally, at night, I started being cautious about having bright indoor lights in the evening (I dim the lights after sunset, and have everything very dark about two hours before sleep). Within about 2 weeks my sleep schedule was very well set; I started getting tired at the same time, and waking up at the same time. I was shocked at the difference it made.EDIT: Here's a snippet from a podcast by Dr. Huberman (professor of neurobiology at Stanford) on this topic (the sunlight viewing). A little more info starting from this timestamp. My neurologist (sleep specialist) was also eager to recommend this same habit of viewing sunlight within the first hour of waking. I do not know the impact it will have for others, but it had a huge impact for me, personally.
I had a professor back in college who was researching the physiological effects of meditation.
He claimed that doing meditation daily over a long period of time tuned the "alarm centers" of the brain. After a stimulus the brain would calm itself/the body down much more quickly.
He was studying this method at the time.
Zero cost, but you need to do it daily, you need to build up to about 20 minutes a session, and you might need to do it over a month to notice results.
You might also want to run with your idea of taking formal stress management training. Such classes are pretty holistic. Much more than telling to do relaxation exercises. You aren't anxious, but you might be stressing yourself out without being aware of it. For example, I don't visualize the next day in the evening as I find that gets me too geared up to sleep through the night. Maybe you have similar mental habits that aren't helping.
Thanks I do appreciate this. Indeed, I have spent a lot of time working on stress and have tried out meditation as well. However, I genuinely do not believe my sleep issues are related to these things. After a lifetime of light sleeping (going back as far as infancy according to my mom), I can only assume it's just how my mind works. It is like this regardless of how stressed or carefree I am, and regardless of what's going on in my life. There has never been a time in my life where it was not like this. My neurologist said some people are just lighter sleepers.
I actually do not have any anxiety around falling asleep, and I never think about the night ahead, it doesn't dawn on me to do so.
All that said, I am all for stress management, and think it's wise for anyone, as stress is simply a part of life.
I've had trouble sleeping since I was a kid, and later in life discovered that marijuana did the trick for me. Now I can fall asleep very quickly and sleep through the night. Might be worth a shot if nothing else is working.
I appreciate the suggestion. I used to smoke a lot of marijuana, not gonna lie. I honestly can not afford it any longer. I also have very poor impulse control with it (at least I did in the past). That said, it's been years since I smoked, so perhaps now a days I'd have better control of myself, as I understand and manage life differently.
I've had arthritis pain-related sleep issues for a while, and found that low-dose balanced (2.5 - 5 mg THC/CBD) gummies or mints, or time-released 10 mg THC/CBD patches helped me stay asleep for 6 - 8 hours. Not enough for noticeable impairment, just sufficient to keep sudden aches or twinges from awakening me. I don't use them regularly, but if I'm feeling more exhausted than usual, I can count on getting a decent night's sleep without grogginess the next day. Something like this might be helpful, or even just CBD (~20 mg) can be effective for relaxation if THC products aren't medically or recreationally available where you are.
That's something I have actually been curious about - something like CBD gummies where, at least based on what I've read, it doesn't actually make you feel high/impaired. I'm assuming that would make it so you're not just wanting to take it all the time like (I get at least) with smoking weed. How much do these things end up costing you, just curious?
I have looked into sites that sell that stuff, but I have no clue what is decent and who is just scamming/selling shit product/overcharging/whatever, as I assume it's yet another industry that's rife with screwing people over. If you have any recommendations, please feel free to let me know (either here publicly or a PM.)
I think you mentioned you're in the U.S. Health food stores often have small-quantity CBD gummies or drops in the supplements section, or checkout aisle CBD candies if you just want to get a sample and see if it's any help. I may not be the person to ask about CBD/THC tolerance or dependency potential, since getting noticeably high is usually unpleasant, and CBD alone isn't effective enough.
Charlotte's Web is a well-regarded line of high CBD (THC < 0.3%) extract products. They do have a version which has been purified to remove nearly all THC (< 0.01%).
You mentioned that you're under financial strain - the Charlotte's Web direct purchase site has discounts for students, veterans, etc. It may still be more expensive than you want to deal with.
Hey thanks a ton. Unfortunately, there are no health food stores or anything niche like that in any close proximity to me, and I am limited to online purchases for stuff like that. I will check out Charlotte's Web, thanks for the recommend!
I'm feeling pretty hopeful after a few great ideas and feedback in this thread, so I appreciate it. Hopefully, this can all be helpful to someone else one day as well who is struggling similarly :)
One last note - avoiding alcohol is a good thing for people who have what I think of as "brittle" sleep. People drink to relax and fall asleep more easily, but alcohol will impair the timing and quality of sleep. I found my "glass of wine with dinner" consumption level made me more vulnerable to awakening suddenly, and now try to make sure that I have a minimum of 4 dry days a week.
Thank you for this. To be honest, I don't drink any alcohol. Beyond personal reasons for this, I have just never enjoyed the taste or effect it has (though that could be because I have never experimented with it, I'm not trying to make some judgement about it). It is interesting to learn of people's experiences with alcohol and how it impacts their sleep; I have read similar things to your experience from others. I wonder what the mechanism is behind alcohol interfering with sleep, I will have to look this up.
I hope you find a combination of things that works for you! The research on something as crucial to well-being as sleep is direly inadequate. The sheer persistence it requires to get a liveable result can be very frustrating. The quality of healthcare you're getting sounds like the doctors are making a good-faith effort. This is as much as can be expected for the U.S. these days. Good luck, and please keep this thread posted on any notable successes/failures.
Thanks for your well wishes, and all the advice and ideas you gave here.
Thanks for voicing this, because it's how I feel, and yet I sometimes feel really lost in this opinion, wondering if I'm dramatically overthinking how big of a deal this is, because the most common response I get when looking for help is "some people are just that way, accept it." It's so difficult for me to accept that, because we know how vital sleep is, and more importantly the difference it can make in your quality of life. It just seems so glossed over at times... almost as though if you get good sleep you're one of the lucky few, and for everyone else well tough luck but that's just how it is; it seems like it should be the opposite, and there should be way more concern over sleep issues. Yes, I'm very lucky I have found my neurologist. I genuinely believe he sympathizes with this issue, I just think the options are limited in what he can do.
I will surely update if I find some great solutions, so that it might help others.
I do want to share this video on sleep optimization, which I think could be useful for anyone (no pressure to watch it, just putting it here in case anyone is interested): Tools for Optimizing Sleep & Sleep-Wake Timing | Huberman Lab Podcast #84. He's just going over various tools to help optimize sleep (such as strategic times for light exposure, of eating, of caffeine consumption, etc; if you expand the description there's a table of contents with timestamps) I always appreciated this podcast, because his claims are backed by peer-reviewed papers, which he links to in the description. He also explains the physiology of the things he's talking about, which I appreciate, because so often when I read stuff like this, it comes down to "trust me because I'm saying it, but I'm not going to provide any boring details." Since watching this a little over a year ago, I have become so aware of the impact of light in particular on my sleep quality, circadian rhythm, daytime wakefulness, etc. I can't believe I went all my life without seeing how greatly this can affect things. The impact on my life has been profound.
Have you tried edibles? I find smoking is easier to over do while edibles is a one-and-done dose. I also find that if I go to sleep high I will have a harder time waking up in the morning. Alternatively if I dose a bit and then sober up before bed I sleep wonderfully and wake up when I need to
I have tried edibles many times, yeah. I always preferred smoking. Probably mostly because of the reason you mentioned (just wanted more and more which I could do when I smoked, vs. I'd be too scared to say take too much of an edible :) ) I think the biggest issue is really that I just can't afford it anymore. Also there's no where to easily get it where I live.
I find it's entirely the opposite. The high I get from using the bong wears off after an hour or two, edibles are entirely dependent on your metabolism/body chemistry and can often take much longer to kick in or wear off. You're basically locked into the ride for the duration.
Wax ear plugs. Super cheap and your body heat forms them to your ears. Perfect seal every time.