7 votes

Assume the Sapir-Whorf Linguistic Theory is accurate: What languages would be best to learn, to improve one's cognitive functions and/or worldview?

Inspired by the recent post about Arrival / The Story of Your Life

The idea of linguistic relativity ... is a principle suggesting that the structure of a language influences its speakers' worldview or cognition, and thus individuals' languages determine or influence their perceptions of the world.

There's, of course, a lot more to it, many variations, and all still at least somewhat in dispute.

Nevertheless, as the title says, assume it's true, and speculate on which languages would be the most interesting to learn from an "expand your mind" perspective.

13 comments

  1. Jordan117
    Link
    Probably whatever language is most grammatically different from one's own, in order to maximize the amount of adaptation your brain has to do to learn it. (That said, idk if using an...

    Probably whatever language is most grammatically different from one's own, in order to maximize the amount of adaptation your brain has to do to learn it.

    (That said, idk if using an already-questionable theory to ask "what language would make you the smartest?" is the most... tactful topic, despite being asked in good faith. It kind of sets the discussion up for inherently offensive speculation about the relative value of different languages.)

    13 votes
  2. aphoenix
    Link
    Disclaimer: As noted by @McFin it is important to acknowledge that strong Sapir-Whorf is wholly debunked, and even weak linguistic relativity is questionable. @Jordan117's comment is an important...

    Disclaimer: As noted by @McFin it is important to acknowledge that strong Sapir-Whorf is wholly debunked, and even weak linguistic relativity is questionable. @Jordan117's comment is an important note as well - it could be seen as problematic to ask a question like this, because of some of the inherent racist issues with Sapir-Whorf, so I recommend being careful about asking questions that can be dogwhistles! Last point of disclaimer: my wife is a professor of Speech Language Pathology and one of my best friends is a professor of Linguistics, and we have had a similar conversation together in the past when I had similar questions. They explained the following to me:

    Learning a new language can keep your brain healthier. As people age, we tend to do less language learning, but the activity of learning a new language can promote brain health. It keeps you thinking, helps you with memory, and gives you something positive to work on.

    The benefits don't really correlate to how different the language is. The important thing is to work on skills, and going from English to Dutch, which are relatively similar, still helps keep you thinking and memorizing and exercising your brain (ie. unfortunately the whole premise of your question doesn't really work). Note that this doesn't touch on the cultural impact at all, just what is mechanically happening in your brain.

    Mandarin is really different from English so if you want to learn something difficult and different, Mandarin has some stark differences. The grammar is very different, the language is tonal whereas English is not, and the writing system uses logograms (full word characters) instead of phonograms (letters). It's probably not the most different from English, but it is also spoken by a lot of people. The most different language is hard to quantify, but it is likely something spoken by a very small amount of people. Mandarin is very different, and has a relatively high utility being the native language of about a billion people.

    Linguistic Relativity is bunk. (sorry to hammer on this). When I asked something really similar, they countered with "Let's assume that the earth is flat. What are the implications of that?" It can be a fun exercise, but we're not going to learn much.

    11 votes
  3. Notcoffeetable
    (edited )
    Link
    Edit: I'm side stepping the problematic application of Sapir-Whorf to human languages to instead reflect on how mathematical/programming languages have been helpful historically and personally for...

    Edit: I'm side stepping the problematic application of Sapir-Whorf to human languages to instead reflect on how mathematical/programming languages have been helpful historically and personally for changing how I understand problem solving.

    Studying math it is interesting to see how the language of math can limit or open up new concepts.

    A long tangent about history of number theory not very relevant but maybe interesting for some? A simple example we're likely all familiar with is middle school/high school trigonometry. We all went through the pain of arguing this line A is parallel to line B based on angles made by intersecting line C. The on tent of this course is of course primarily Euclid's Elements, but the style of speaking is all based on the ancient Greeks who hadn't conceived of equations or symbolic manipulation that we all learned in algebra. Diophantus's Arithmetica (approximately 200-280AD) was the first western mathematician to begin using a form of equations to known and unknown values. But primarily it was used to represent quantities previous solved for via compass and straight edge.

    Interestingly, Diophantus's Arithmetica is the book where Fermat scribbled his famous margin note (Fermat's Last Theorem).

    It is impossible for a cube to be the sum of two cubes, a fourth power to be the sum of two fourth powers, or in general for any number that is a power greater than the second to be the sum of two like powers. I have discovered a truly marvelous demonstration of this proposition that this margin is too narrow to contain.

    Modern day mathematicians believe that Fermat's claimed proof assumed unique factorization in ZZ[(-1)^(1/n)] (I don't know how to use LaTex on Tildes, that is the ring of integers with the nth root of -1, aka cyclotomic integers). This is false and mathematicians wouldn't really have the machinery to know this for another 100 years. It wasn't until 1994 that Andrew Wiles finally proved Fermat's Last Theorem using a whole stack of theory that wasn't really nailed down until 1960 (and his result pushed this field forward significantly.)

    All that is to say, while the Sapir-Whorf theorem is suspect and tenuous at best, in math where vocabulary and grammar is technology, the way that mathematicians view their world is highly dependent on the "languages" they've learned. Someone who has primarily studied PDEs is not going to approach data the same was as someone who spent more time with Topology.

    Sorry for the giant ramble. To answer your question directly: I wouldn't recommend a human language to change your world view. Learning any language is going to help exercise your brain, just as solving puzzles will. If someone wanted to learn a way of communicating that will open up their methods of thinking I recommend learning to program. If you already know how to program, learn a programming language in a paradigm you haven't experienced. The book Seven Languages in Seven Weeks: A Pragmatic Guide to Learning Programming Languages is excellent for this.

    7 votes
  4. mantrid
    Link
    In that case, you should learn a language that is as different as possible from your own.

    In that case, you should learn a language that is as different as possible from your own.

    5 votes
  5. 0d_billie
    Link
    I'm not too comfortable with the premise of the question, even though it's being asked in good faith. SW is all but debunked in its strong form, and while there are differences in cognition...

    I'm not too comfortable with the premise of the question, even though it's being asked in good faith. SW is all but debunked in its strong form, and while there are differences in cognition depending on language, they are small and ultimately not so useful (the goluboy and siniy experiments are interesting, but it'd hardly change your life to distinguish shades of blue a split second faster).

    That said, to engage with the question at its basic premise: you would need to research in a comparative sense which languages contain the most features that your first language(s) does not. For instance, if English is your first language, perhaps skip over anything with a Latin or Germanic influence, and look to Africa and Asia. Mandarin Chinese might be a good option for its use of tones. Japanese and Korean are also good options for their different sentence construction and agglutinative morphosyntax.

    You could also look for what would increase your ability to perceive and produce different phonemes to those already in your own linguistic inventory. It has been shown that babies just a few weeks old can differentiate the sounds that are part of their dominant language from those that are not, and we very quickly lose that perception. So perhaps a Sub-Saharan African language which uses a lot of consonants that English does not (although the clicks in many are dying out) would be useful.

    Maybe you just want a language that has more words available for ideas covered by only a few words in your first tongue. German could be a good option here, or maybe indigenous languages.

    Possibly you could skip a verbal language altogether, and learn to sign. But then of course you would need to pick which sign language, because there are as many sign languages as there are deaf communities.


    There will never be one best tongue for this hypothetical premise, because there are so many linguistic features and variety among all the world's languages. Languages are also tied up inextricably with culture. Which dialect of a given language would you opt for? In fact, perhaps just adopting a new dialect of your own language would be the best answer to this question. You would learn not just how to talk slightly differently, but you would come to understand a different way of life, as language (and dialects can be considered different languages) is impossible to fully extract from the culture that uses it. People who belong to minority ethnic groups in their countries, or are queer, or working class, or are women... All have different linguistic proclivities and perspectives which inform their use of language, and their desire to signal membership of their social circle.

    So it might considered a cop-out answer to your question, but I would argue that the best language you can learn is the language that the people in your community that are the most different from you, use. It will broaden your horizons and change your perceptions more completely than will learning a foreign language that you don't have consistent and regular opportunities to speak.

    4 votes
  6. [8]
    McFin
    Link
    Let's re-examine this question. Linguistic relativity is bunk, full stop. Instead of fantasizing about the non-existent merits a theory that is patently false, let's focus on what is true about...
    • Exemplary

    Let's re-examine this question.

    Linguistic relativity is bunk, full stop.

    Instead of fantasizing about the non-existent merits a theory that is patently false, let's focus on what is true about language: language transmits culture.

    This tenent is one of the main staples of a language/dialect (and a language is just a dialect with an army, as my linguistics prof was so fond of reminding us...). So really, we should fixate on learning language to understand other cultures.

    Learn a language to learn a culture. This can only help expand your horizons and give you tools for examining the world around you, as you learn to see things from that culture's point-of-view (hopefully).

    Don't think about learning language to give you some kind of magical mind powers or to make you "smarter." Look at language from the perspective of seeing a new culture. That's the missed takeaway from Arrival anyway, not that language gives you powers, but seeing things from another perspective gives you new tools to analyze the world around you.

    And don't divide language into something thing like "English, German, Italian," etc. Look at so-called dialects within your own language (I say so-called dialects because these can be seen as languages in their own right). If you're American, for example, look at Chicano English, African American Vernacular, Afro-Seminolen Creole, Cajun, Midlander...the list goes on.

    Don't get me wrong: I'm not arguing against learning another nation's language or isolating yourself from other cultures. The opposite. Look inward to see outward. Dialect is an understated aspect of learning a foreign language. You've got a world of foreign culture just down the road from where you live, regardless of your country.

    Bottom-line/TDRL: learn language to learn culture. Don't limit yourself to national languages but study dialects within your own language.

    23 votes
    1. turmacar
      Link Parent
      Just to add an anecdote from an ignorant American, went to Spain in 2016 for a trip and assumed high school Spanish and google translate would be a good way to get along. We were in Donostia/San...

      Just to add an anecdote from an ignorant American, went to Spain in 2016 for a trip and assumed high school Spanish and google translate would be a good way to get along. We were in Donostia/San Sebastian, which is squarely in the Basque region and political tensions were pretty high. Spanish, wasn't super well received or very helpful. Learned a lot about Basque culture though.

      Beautiful city, had a great time, but it firmly reinforced that "the difference between a dialect and a language is an army."

      7 votes
    2. pyeri
      Link Parent
      Language has both cultural and civilizational aspects. Learning another dialect of your own regional language helps you learn more about a new culture as you said. But learning a language from a...

      Language has both cultural and civilizational aspects. Learning another dialect of your own regional language helps you learn more about a new culture as you said. But learning a language from a very distant land or continent might help you learn a whole new civilization! They work in different dimensions, the latter is much more wholesome and profound.

      3 votes
    3. [5]
      Eric_the_Cerise
      Link Parent
      No, let's not. For the record, this is exactly the kind of non-answer that inspires people to be uncivil on the Internet. If you feel like you cannot participate in a discussion within the...

      Let's re-examine this question.

      No, let's not.

      For the record, this is exactly the kind of non-answer that inspires people to be uncivil on the Internet.

      If you feel like you cannot participate in a discussion within the parameters set for the discussion, then just keep scrolling.

      I am sick to death of threads where the question is "How do you do 'X'?" followed by a half-dozen non-answers saying "Why would you do 'X' when you should be doing 'Y'?"

      Thanks to you, I have now lost all interest in this, my own discussion, and--for the time being, at least--in Tildes overall.

      Exemplary.

      4 votes
      1. McFin
        (edited )
        Link Parent
        I regret that my response was aggressive and dismissive of your question and your general curiosity. This wasn't my intent. However, because that's how I came off, then that's the truth of my...

        I regret that my response was aggressive and dismissive of your question and your general curiosity. This wasn't my intent. However, because that's how I came off, then that's the truth of my response: dismissive and aggressive. I apologize for responding that way. Please don't let my response turn you off from the whole of Tildes.

        The rest of my response will deal with the nature of why I was gracefully trying to sidestep your question.

        The problem with the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis is that it isn't just a fun thought experiment. There are racist and American-centric undertones foundational to the theory and in the poor research conducted in its establishment. I don't know you, but I'm completely certain that you have no interest in promoting these kinds of ideas. I assume your question is far more kind-hearted and earnest than the Sapir-Whorf Hypothesis allows.

        I wasn't attempting to tear you down, but take the spirit of the question to heart.

        If you want to assume that the Sapir-Whorf Hypothesis is true, then we would be making very unhealthy and untrue claims about the capabilities of certain cultures. We would be stating that their minds are less equipped to think on certain levels because their their language is different from the "civilized" Western cultures rooted in the theory's genesis.

        Since the introduction of this theory, linguists and anthropologists have attempted to soften the theory more and more (hence the strong and weak theory), but each iteration is not only problematic, but ends up dubious when attempting to prove. I don't know another way to address this than stating its problems plainly.

        This is why it isn't constructive to assume it's true. It is inherently a destructive hypothesis. But I also don't believe that its implications and undertones were the intent of your topic. I believe you wanted to expand your horizons (not limit them, as the Sapir-Whorf Hypothesis does). So my response was to carry the nature of your topic in the direction I interpreted you wanted to go. I apologize if I misinterpreted your intent.

        And again, I wholeheartedly apologize for discouraging you and being dismissive. Please don't let my response turn you off from the curiosity you have about language or Tildes as a whole.

        11 votes
      2. stu2b50
        Link Parent
        OP was a little aggressive, but fundamentally the issue is that even if you wanted to take the question in as given, whether or not Sapir-Whorf is true or not is essential for that. If you want to...

        OP was a little aggressive, but fundamentally the issue is that even if you wanted to take the question in as given, whether or not Sapir-Whorf is true or not is essential for that. If you want to examine which languages are the most "beneficial" for expanding your worldview, then that leads to how Sapir-Whorf works, no? Otherwise, what framework would you have for making this extrapolation?

        But then we know that Sapir-Whorf isn't true, so what are we going off of in the hypothetical? You can pretend that Sapir-Whorf is true, but problematic cultural areas aside, that seems a bit pointless.

        10 votes
      3. psi
        Link Parent
        I think the problem with the question is that it's inherently unanswerable as phrased. Suppose the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis is true. Then what? Knowing the hypothesis is true doesn't tell you how or...

        I think the problem with the question is that it's inherently unanswerable as phrased. Suppose the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis is true. Then what? Knowing the hypothesis is true doesn't tell you how or why your perception of the world is different, only that it is. It's similar to how a proof that there exist solutions to some class of partial differential equations doesn't tell you what those solutions are.

        6 votes
      4. bushbear
        Link Parent
        Wow everything was going so well until you made this comment hahaha. i think you have outed yourself as being a bit of a numpty to put it politely. Personally I enjoyed mcfins reply as it added...

        Wow everything was going so well until you made this comment hahaha. i think you have outed yourself as being a bit of a numpty to put it politely.

        Personally I enjoyed mcfins reply as it added another point of view to the other comments.

        1 vote