I recognise so much of this from my self and others round me. I’ve been going to different men groups and larger sessions over weekends for about 3 years now and it has changed my life and I...
I recognise so much of this from my self and others round me. I’ve been going to different men groups and larger sessions over weekends for about 3 years now and it has changed my life and I cannot recommend it enough. As the article says it really ripples through yourself and throughout the relationships around you. It’s so powerful to feel that strength, trust and understanding among other men you simply have to experience it to understand the true value of it. It takes real courage but with the right facilitators like these amazing men it’s doable and god damn worth it.
I am interested in joining such a community, but I struggle to find one. For reference, I live in a large European city. Where did you first come across these groups and what do they do? Any...
I am interested in joining such a community, but I struggle to find one. For reference, I live in a large European city.
Where did you first come across these groups and what do they do? Any advice for finding something similar locally?
In my area, there is a men's support group which runs on the same site as a women's shelter; eg the same charity started both but they are independent. I would start by calling your city's civic...
In my area, there is a men's support group which runs on the same site as a women's shelter; eg the same charity started both but they are independent.
I would start by calling your city's civic help line (311 in my province, for example) they probably know. Another avenue is visiting local thrift stores and looking on their notice boards. Speaking to local social workers is also a good idea.
Finally, a lot of slightly bigger churches also have specially men's prayer / life / support small groups.
That’s great to hear! What made you seek out these groups in the beginning? Were you consciously aware of aspects of yourself you wanted to work on with help, did someone suggest it, or was it...
That’s great to hear! What made you seek out these groups in the beginning? Were you consciously aware of aspects of yourself you wanted to work on with help, did someone suggest it, or was it generally looking for community/friends?
Great and relevant questions. I don’t I really knew what I needed or even that I needed it. Like many others (I’ve since come to learn) it was my wife. She found a men’s weekend retreat from a...
Great and relevant questions. I don’t I really knew what I needed or even that I needed it. Like many others (I’ve since come to learn) it was my wife. She found a men’s weekend retreat from a podcast and suggested to me. I booked it immediately because I know myself and if I have to be courageous it has to be now or never. I think I’ve written about it hear before and like with a lot of self help and self discovery it’s very hard to describe. You have to experience it. That’s the first big step. The more resistance you feel the better…that’s my take on it.
It’s around 120 men gathered for a long weekend. Teamed up in sharing groups of 7-8 men and a facilitator we get to know each other and slowly through guided questions and conversations. The focus is on trust, openness and just being heard. Over the weekend you get to pick 3 workshops every day with different people from other groups. Throughout these 3-4 days you get to know some men VERY well and a lot of people a little well :) Gratitude was my big takeaway the first time I went.
I’ve since gone to this event 3 times and loved it every time. Furthermore I’ve made connections and friends where we’ve made smaller men’s groups that meet/talk once a month to talk and listen in a safe space. It takes courage and not least dedication but it’s life fulfilling.
This is very interesting to me. Could you perhaps share the name? I'd like to learn more. If you don't feel comfortable posting it here, please feel free to message me directly.
This is very interesting to me. Could you perhaps share the name? I'd like to learn more. If you don't feel comfortable posting it here, please feel free to message me directly.
As a woman, I'd like to ask why men seem to have so much hesitation joining something like this that has so much benefits. Was it always this way or did men get pushed to become more lone wolves...
As a woman, I'd like to ask why men seem to have so much hesitation joining something like this that has so much benefits. Was it always this way or did men get pushed to become more lone wolves and tough guys after the 80s era?
My personal view on this (based on my experiences and what others have shared with me): A LOT of what defines how you think and behave is tied to how you were raised and the messaging from your...
My personal view on this (based on my experiences and what others have shared with me):
A LOT of what defines how you think and behave is tied to how you were raised and the messaging from your parent(s), both direct and indirect. This is universal across gender identities - we all have childhood experiences that tie into our perspective of who we are and how we should act. (Even in cases where you may develop opposing behaviors in response to something you identify as negative.)
For men, I think a lot of us look to our fathers as role models. Even though I strongly knew I did not want to follow in my dad's footsteps (alcoholism), I still adopted some behaviors based on his instructions to me.
One example is that he told me I should never show affection to a girlfriend when around her parents, which he told me while I was in high school. Over 5 years later when I am an independent adult, I still assumed this was normal and a universal expectation. I visited my girlfriend's parents for a few days with her, and they later shared with her that they were concerned that I didn't seem to show any affection or interest.
My partner's parents have a very different dynamic than my parents. Her dad will call/text me to ask for help with tech questions, and I have been able to ask for help with other skills I have not yet developed (usually about tools for general home repairs). Perhaps most surprising to me is that her parents treat us as adults, while mine feel the need to continuously act as my superior.
Another shock is that my partner's dad performs DIY work without constantly swearing and getting angry. Anything my dad would do was always an escalating tension with no guarantee he'd complete the task. Seeing the opposite response helped me develop the ability to take things slow and remain a bit more cool headed.
This is funny, I have a similar relationship to my Dad, though he was always more distant in general. Never seemed to care what I did as long as I wasn't annoying him*, so my role models were...
This is funny, I have a similar relationship to my Dad, though he was always more distant in general. Never seemed to care what I did as long as I wasn't annoying him*, so my role models were always the women in my life. These days I find it much easier to talk to women than other men, though I do have a close group of male friends. I even went to some male meetups and just felt like I didn't belong, so never returned.
I like a lot of typically masculine things, like cars, fixing things, WW2, etc, I just feel out of place with other dudes.
*Unfortunately, I do this with my kids sometimes. I'm trying to be better about it and I'm certainly significantly more involved in their lives than my Dad ever was in mine.
My wife certainly calls me out for the more unfavorable behaviors I've inherited from my Mom & Dad. But yeah, it's especially hard to keep everything in mind and change the behavior; right now I'm...
My wife certainly calls me out for the more unfavorable behaviors I've inherited from my Mom & Dad. But yeah, it's especially hard to keep everything in mind and change the behavior; right now I'm doing ok because I've been acutely aware of it and trying to be better.
But what I think I need is a major life change right now. I think a lot of what I'm experiencing as far as the behaviors I don't like in my Dad is due to me being bored with my current circumstances, but I'm struggling to overcome the anxiety (Trait from my Mom) to change them.
It’s a great question and while there’s certainty a lot of societally and historically facts involved I will say on a personal level I didn’t really think I had permission to do all these...
It’s a great question and while there’s certainty a lot of societally and historically facts involved I will say on a personal level I didn’t really think I had permission to do all these things…like I knew I could just do them but something deeper held me back…myself. And to come to understand why I wouldn’t allow myself certain aspects of life is difficult. There’s upbringing, romantic relationships, mother/father relationship, sexual relationships etc.
That’s why when I finally was able to just let go a say what I wanted to say to other men because I felt heard and safe I felt liberated. It brings tears to my eyes just writing this because it’s a deeply freeing feeling. Also because even if I had the chance earlier in life to say anything I had no idea what I wanted to say. I didn’t know how to express all these feelings. I didn’t know what it even was. I wasn’t brought up in a macho world but feelings weren’t really talked about especially not among other boys/men.
I wanna say so many things here but my vocabulary isn’t that great and I lack the skill to fully express myself in English. I hope you get the gist of it from my perspective and feel free to ask about anything you want.
This reminds me a lot of men's sheds here in Australia. Even very small towns here typically have a men's shed. In addition to the emotional support and social connection they provide for men,...
This reminds me a lot of men's sheds here in Australia. Even very small towns here typically have a men's shed. In addition to the emotional support and social connection they provide for men, they do a lot of volunteer work for their communities: clean up and repair after storms, making and donating furniture, running free workshops for the public, etc.
I’ve read about these before and they sound fantastic. I wish they were here in Singapore, both for the general men’s community and for the space and encouragement of DIY; space at home is too...
I’ve read about these before and they sound fantastic. I wish they were here in Singapore, both for the general men’s community and for the space and encouragement of DIY; space at home is too tight for anything more than tiny projects and people seem happy to call and pay a handyman to fix even the simplest things. I miss the US’s giant hardware stores like Lowe’s and Home Depot with everything you need (with McMaster-Carr for everything else) and the prevalence of private home garages and backyards to work in.
Sometimes it’s nice to know that the rest of the world has the same problems as the country you’re in. As a side note it seems that every time I see reporting from CNA it’s really top-notch stuff....
Sometimes it’s nice to know that the rest of the world has the same problems as the country you’re in.
As a side note it seems that every time I see reporting from CNA it’s really top-notch stuff. It almost makes me want to move to Singapore.
+1 for No More Mister Nice Guy. I’ve read it too and also did the assignments. It’s a central book around a lot of men’s work around here because it touches on issues a lot of men have in common...
+1 for No More Mister Nice Guy. I’ve read it too and also did the assignments. It’s a central book around a lot of men’s work around here because it touches on issues a lot of men have in common in today’s world.
NB! It has absolutely NOTHING to do with the “Nice guy” concept from reddit.
I'm not so sure. The linked text describes the core principles of the Reddit Nice Guy pretty clearly. I suspect that "Nice Guy Syndrome" (from this book, published 2001) very much influenced the...
I'm not so sure. The linked text describes the core principles of the Reddit Nice Guy pretty clearly. I suspect that "Nice Guy Syndrome" (from this book, published 2001) very much influenced the cliche on reddit.
Nice Guys are frequently isolated. Though Nice Guys desire to be liked and loved, their behaviors actually make it difficult for people to get very close to them.
Nice Guys give to get . Though Nice Guys tend to be generous givers, their giving often has unconscious and unspoken strings attached
From the same section we learn that Nice Guys are manipulative, controlling, full of rage, prone to sexual compulsion, frequently isolated, and tend to have problems in intimate relationships.
So I take your point that the reader doesn't need to worry about reddit's baggage, but I think "absolutely nothing" is an overstatement.
It's weird... I started listening to the audio book (from 2017) am almost half way in and I kind of like it, but I would be very cautious to recommend it to anyone without being able to have some...
It's weird...
I started listening to the audio book (from 2017) am almost half way in and I kind of like it, but I would be very cautious to recommend it to anyone without being able to have some deep conversations with them.
Many of the conclusions, exercises and the heavy push to do this work within a group of supportive men is great imho.
Buuut..... Much of the storytelling doesn't sit right with me, and it is really easy to draw reddit-conclusions from it.
It is quite dated and uses an extremely idealised image of the 1950-1970:s USA for it's storytelling, I suspect this makes it easier to me to focus more on the other stuff as these kinds of stories are just tiresome to hear again.
I recognise so much of this from my self and others round me. I’ve been going to different men groups and larger sessions over weekends for about 3 years now and it has changed my life and I cannot recommend it enough. As the article says it really ripples through yourself and throughout the relationships around you. It’s so powerful to feel that strength, trust and understanding among other men you simply have to experience it to understand the true value of it. It takes real courage but with the right facilitators like these amazing men it’s doable and god damn worth it.
I am interested in joining such a community, but I struggle to find one. For reference, I live in a large European city.
Where did you first come across these groups and what do they do? Any advice for finding something similar locally?
In my area, there is a men's support group which runs on the same site as a women's shelter; eg the same charity started both but they are independent.
I would start by calling your city's civic help line (311 in my province, for example) they probably know. Another avenue is visiting local thrift stores and looking on their notice boards. Speaking to local social workers is also a good idea.
Finally, a lot of slightly bigger churches also have specially men's prayer / life / support small groups.
That’s great to hear! What made you seek out these groups in the beginning? Were you consciously aware of aspects of yourself you wanted to work on with help, did someone suggest it, or was it generally looking for community/friends?
Great and relevant questions. I don’t I really knew what I needed or even that I needed it. Like many others (I’ve since come to learn) it was my wife. She found a men’s weekend retreat from a podcast and suggested to me. I booked it immediately because I know myself and if I have to be courageous it has to be now or never. I think I’ve written about it hear before and like with a lot of self help and self discovery it’s very hard to describe. You have to experience it. That’s the first big step. The more resistance you feel the better…that’s my take on it.
It’s around 120 men gathered for a long weekend. Teamed up in sharing groups of 7-8 men and a facilitator we get to know each other and slowly through guided questions and conversations. The focus is on trust, openness and just being heard. Over the weekend you get to pick 3 workshops every day with different people from other groups. Throughout these 3-4 days you get to know some men VERY well and a lot of people a little well :) Gratitude was my big takeaway the first time I went.
I’ve since gone to this event 3 times and loved it every time. Furthermore I’ve made connections and friends where we’ve made smaller men’s groups that meet/talk once a month to talk and listen in a safe space. It takes courage and not least dedication but it’s life fulfilling.
This is very interesting to me. Could you perhaps share the name? I'd like to learn more. If you don't feel comfortable posting it here, please feel free to message me directly.
As a woman, I'd like to ask why men seem to have so much hesitation joining something like this that has so much benefits. Was it always this way or did men get pushed to become more lone wolves and tough guys after the 80s era?
My personal view on this (based on my experiences and what others have shared with me):
A LOT of what defines how you think and behave is tied to how you were raised and the messaging from your parent(s), both direct and indirect. This is universal across gender identities - we all have childhood experiences that tie into our perspective of who we are and how we should act. (Even in cases where you may develop opposing behaviors in response to something you identify as negative.)
For men, I think a lot of us look to our fathers as role models. Even though I strongly knew I did not want to follow in my dad's footsteps (alcoholism), I still adopted some behaviors based on his instructions to me.
One example is that he told me I should never show affection to a girlfriend when around her parents, which he told me while I was in high school. Over 5 years later when I am an independent adult, I still assumed this was normal and a universal expectation. I visited my girlfriend's parents for a few days with her, and they later shared with her that they were concerned that I didn't seem to show any affection or interest.
My partner's parents have a very different dynamic than my parents. Her dad will call/text me to ask for help with tech questions, and I have been able to ask for help with other skills I have not yet developed (usually about tools for general home repairs). Perhaps most surprising to me is that her parents treat us as adults, while mine feel the need to continuously act as my superior.
Another shock is that my partner's dad performs DIY work without constantly swearing and getting angry. Anything my dad would do was always an escalating tension with no guarantee he'd complete the task. Seeing the opposite response helped me develop the ability to take things slow and remain a bit more cool headed.
This is funny, I have a similar relationship to my Dad, though he was always more distant in general. Never seemed to care what I did as long as I wasn't annoying him*, so my role models were always the women in my life. These days I find it much easier to talk to women than other men, though I do have a close group of male friends. I even went to some male meetups and just felt like I didn't belong, so never returned.
I like a lot of typically masculine things, like cars, fixing things, WW2, etc, I just feel out of place with other dudes.
*Unfortunately, I do this with my kids sometimes. I'm trying to be better about it and I'm certainly significantly more involved in their lives than my Dad ever was in mine.
My wife certainly calls me out for the more unfavorable behaviors I've inherited from my Mom & Dad. But yeah, it's especially hard to keep everything in mind and change the behavior; right now I'm doing ok because I've been acutely aware of it and trying to be better.
But what I think I need is a major life change right now. I think a lot of what I'm experiencing as far as the behaviors I don't like in my Dad is due to me being bored with my current circumstances, but I'm struggling to overcome the anxiety (Trait from my Mom) to change them.
It’s a great question and while there’s certainty a lot of societally and historically facts involved I will say on a personal level I didn’t really think I had permission to do all these things…like I knew I could just do them but something deeper held me back…myself. And to come to understand why I wouldn’t allow myself certain aspects of life is difficult. There’s upbringing, romantic relationships, mother/father relationship, sexual relationships etc.
That’s why when I finally was able to just let go a say what I wanted to say to other men because I felt heard and safe I felt liberated. It brings tears to my eyes just writing this because it’s a deeply freeing feeling. Also because even if I had the chance earlier in life to say anything I had no idea what I wanted to say. I didn’t know how to express all these feelings. I didn’t know what it even was. I wasn’t brought up in a macho world but feelings weren’t really talked about especially not among other boys/men.
I wanna say so many things here but my vocabulary isn’t that great and I lack the skill to fully express myself in English. I hope you get the gist of it from my perspective and feel free to ask about anything you want.
This reminds me a lot of men's sheds here in Australia. Even very small towns here typically have a men's shed. In addition to the emotional support and social connection they provide for men, they do a lot of volunteer work for their communities: clean up and repair after storms, making and donating furniture, running free workshops for the public, etc.
I’ve read about these before and they sound fantastic. I wish they were here in Singapore, both for the general men’s community and for the space and encouragement of DIY; space at home is too tight for anything more than tiny projects and people seem happy to call and pay a handyman to fix even the simplest things. I miss the US’s giant hardware stores like Lowe’s and Home Depot with everything you need (with McMaster-Carr for everything else) and the prevalence of private home garages and backyards to work in.
Sometimes it’s nice to know that the rest of the world has the same problems as the country you’re in.
As a side note it seems that every time I see reporting from CNA it’s really top-notch stuff. It almost makes me want to move to Singapore.
+1 for No More Mister Nice Guy. I’ve read it too and also did the assignments. It’s a central book around a lot of men’s work around here because it touches on issues a lot of men have in common in today’s world.
NB! It has absolutely NOTHING to do with the “Nice guy” concept from reddit.
I'm not so sure. The linked text describes the core principles of the Reddit Nice Guy pretty clearly. I suspect that "Nice Guy Syndrome" (from this book, published 2001) very much influenced the cliche on reddit.
From the same section we learn that Nice Guys are manipulative, controlling, full of rage, prone to sexual compulsion, frequently isolated, and tend to have problems in intimate relationships.
So I take your point that the reader doesn't need to worry about reddit's baggage, but I think "absolutely nothing" is an overstatement.
It's weird...
I started listening to the audio book (from 2017) am almost half way in and I kind of like it, but I would be very cautious to recommend it to anyone without being able to have some deep conversations with them.
Many of the conclusions, exercises and the heavy push to do this work within a group of supportive men is great imho.
Buuut..... Much of the storytelling doesn't sit right with me, and it is really easy to draw reddit-conclusions from it.
It is quite dated and uses an extremely idealised image of the 1950-1970:s USA for it's storytelling, I suspect this makes it easier to me to focus more on the other stuff as these kinds of stories are just tiresome to hear again.
Your right and thanks for the clarification. I was afraid people would be turned away from the book because of reddit and got caught up.