I will never forget the conversation the day I tendered my resignation to a C-suite man I'd reported to directly for three years. "Well, at least you can spend more time with your kids", he said....
I will never forget the conversation the day I tendered my resignation to a C-suite man I'd reported to directly for three years. "Well, at least you can spend more time with your kids", he said. "I don't have any", I replied.
I wish had a picture of his face in that moment, and that I'd followed up with a fair pay lawsuit for the differential between my salary and those of the men with similar titles who (presumably) did have children.
And before anyone asks if this was some vintage, old-timey sexism, no, it was four years ago.
Did you win the lawsuit? I super hope you did. Wow the gall of this man to know you for three years and just rudely assumed you had kids. I would wonder at how much did you get passed over for...
Did you win the lawsuit? I super hope you did. Wow the gall of this man to know you for three years and just rudely assumed you had kids. I would wonder at how much did you get passed over for over his idiotic and sexist assumptions, both voluntary and involuntary, committee in his knowledge or ignorance.....
I never filed the lawsuit, despite good evidence that I'd been underpaid by 20 - 30% for years, and might have had an age discrimination case as well. Turns out I was part of a cohort of...
I never filed the lawsuit, despite good evidence that I'd been underpaid by 20 - 30% for years, and might have had an age discrimination case as well. Turns out I was part of a cohort of middle-aged women managers and executives with no kids or grown ones. We were all basically overworking ourselves near to death, under the kind of increasingly unreasonable demands that a lawyer might call constructive dismissal. We all left the company of our own volition within a few months of each other, because we were in similarly untenable situations, and compared notes afterward.
Understand, by the time I quit, I was completely done with everything. It was a terrible work situation for any number of reasons, my physical and mental health were falling apart. I needed to repair the frayed relationship with my spouse* and we were desperate to move away... It felt like a matter of life and death to leave and not look back.
*That wasn't a matter of unresolved gender competition. My spouse and I were good at negotiating the various demands of our careers for many years, and didn't have children or senior parents to care for. But it's horrible to watch someone you care about abusing themselves to the point of illness, and I'd been doing that in spite of his pleas. I was genuinely neglecting his most basic needs for companionship (and my own) to keep a soul-devouring job. As the article suggests, the problem isn't just the dual role of women, it's the hard-driving 24/7 cutthroat culture demanded for masculinized success.
My wife and I (married 16 years) recently swapped roles - I became the stay at home dad and she become the one with the "high powered" job with the demanding schedule. Eventually I expect to be...
My wife and I (married 16 years) recently swapped roles - I became the stay at home dad and she become the one with the "high powered" job with the demanding schedule. Eventually I expect to be working at least part time, but I will still be the "primary parent".
Before this, I spent 10 years doing fast-paced startups, being the one with the long hours, making minimal contributions at home, etc. She worked part time during many of those years, but definitely held the primary responsibility for house and kids. I think things started to shift for us because I was home more during the pandemic, and during that time I did a lot of work in individual therapy to find better work life balance, and we did a lot of work in couples therapy to understand each other better.
When my wife had an opportunity that not only let her go back to work full time, but jump several rungs up the ladder, I decided that all the talk about being equal partners didn't really mean anything unless I worked to support her in it, so that is what we did.
We are still settling into the change, but I have enjoyed it so far. There's some weirdness being the only Dad at the parent teacher committee meetings or other school events, but I am adjusting.
When my wife was the one staying at home, I had to really fight to understand how much work the homemaking was. I knew intellectually, but not in a real way. Now that I am doing it myself, I am experiencing how much work it is. Sometimes it feels like to much, but mostly it is manageable and just different. One weird thing is that I still find myself falling into the bias that it's not "real" work even when I'm doing it myself. It's remarkable how ingrained that bias is given how much we've been able to do differently as a couple.
I know there are still lots of problems for women in the workplace, and I can't solve most of them. But I hope supporting my wife and talking to other people to try to normalize it are ways to be the change I want to see in the world.
I have met a lot of other guys with similar thinking, that all women should be mothers or take on a caretaker role. Surprisingly I've also met a lot of women who deride other women if they do not...
I have met a lot of other guys with similar thinking, that all women should be mothers or take on a caretaker role. Surprisingly I've also met a lot of women who deride other women if they do not fall into this boxed role. It's such a backward way of thinking that's perpetuated by a lot of right-wing media. They take for granted the fact that women actually came from that singular role in the past, that is, women used to not have the agency to decide for themselves what they can become. Funnily, we always think we live in a modern society, but don't even know that women were rejected to be recognized as persons in 1920s. I always just take it as an immediate no-no when someone begins talking about women this way. It's like they don't realize they don't have to take about themselves (as men) because they already possess said agency. It's also so cognitively warped how they throw so many scare tactics like "you'll be alone as a woman without children" or whatnot, as if there's not a thing like a childless man, deadbeat father, or father who has abandoned their children. I swear, a lot of men just pointedly blame women for their own inadequacies. They're projecting their own failures onto them.
My wife has also experienced discrimination for choosing the "boxed role" in more liberal circles, so there's really no winning apparently. The workplace is toxic and domestic work is horrifically...
My wife has also experienced discrimination for choosing the "boxed role" in more liberal circles, so there's really no winning apparently. The workplace is toxic and domestic work is horrifically discriminated against (admittedly this is mostly due to said sexism).
"How dare you fall back into the stereotype and make us look bad, regardless of your goals in life" - Badly paraphrased by me 2nd-hand and 10 years removed.
This is funny to me, as I used to work with an ex of mine and (though we were counterparts for most of the time) she got promoted over me and to a different location. We'd still work together from...
In his calculation all women were mothers, a conflation that was common in our interviews.
This is funny to me, as I used to work with an ex of mine and (though we were counterparts for most of the time) she got promoted over me and to a different location. We'd still work together from time to time and I'd always have to say "We have the same last name but you've been talking to her to coordinate all this, I'm just the muscle!" to people...
But, for career women, I understand the stigma of 'neglecting' your 'other duties.' Dropping kids off at day care and having to explain 'Yes, Dad packs the bags and does the washing' 'no, I don't need to pass on a message to Mom about that.' becomes tiring but at least it doesn't cost me promotions or salary!
I hate to say but I don't really know the 'way forward' though... Hell, four out of my five bosses are women! Will this stereotype die out with Gen X or Millennials or will there be some other reckoning? I don't think this is a uniquely American problem but I can't imagine hundreds of cultures the world over shifting expectations in a similar timeframe.
https://archive.ph/QjM3u is the archive link. I got this by going to archive.ph and pasting in the url linked by OP. Be the change you want to see in the world.
https://archive.ph/QjM3u is the archive link. I got this by going to archive.ph and pasting in the url linked by OP. Be the change you want to see in the world.
I will never forget the conversation the day I tendered my resignation to a C-suite man I'd reported to directly for three years. "Well, at least you can spend more time with your kids", he said. "I don't have any", I replied.
I wish had a picture of his face in that moment, and that I'd followed up with a fair pay lawsuit for the differential between my salary and those of the men with similar titles who (presumably) did have children.
And before anyone asks if this was some vintage, old-timey sexism, no, it was four years ago.
Did you win the lawsuit? I super hope you did. Wow the gall of this man to know you for three years and just rudely assumed you had kids. I would wonder at how much did you get passed over for over his idiotic and sexist assumptions, both voluntary and involuntary, committee in his knowledge or ignorance.....
I never filed the lawsuit, despite good evidence that I'd been underpaid by 20 - 30% for years, and might have had an age discrimination case as well. Turns out I was part of a cohort of middle-aged women managers and executives with no kids or grown ones. We were all basically overworking ourselves near to death, under the kind of increasingly unreasonable demands that a lawyer might call constructive dismissal. We all left the company of our own volition within a few months of each other, because we were in similarly untenable situations, and compared notes afterward.
Understand, by the time I quit, I was completely done with everything. It was a terrible work situation for any number of reasons, my physical and mental health were falling apart. I needed to repair the frayed relationship with my spouse* and we were desperate to move away... It felt like a matter of life and death to leave and not look back.
*That wasn't a matter of unresolved gender competition. My spouse and I were good at negotiating the various demands of our careers for many years, and didn't have children or senior parents to care for. But it's horrible to watch someone you care about abusing themselves to the point of illness, and I'd been doing that in spite of his pleas. I was genuinely neglecting his most basic needs for companionship (and my own) to keep a soul-devouring job. As the article suggests, the problem isn't just the dual role of women, it's the hard-driving 24/7 cutthroat culture demanded for masculinized success.
My wife and I (married 16 years) recently swapped roles - I became the stay at home dad and she become the one with the "high powered" job with the demanding schedule. Eventually I expect to be working at least part time, but I will still be the "primary parent".
Before this, I spent 10 years doing fast-paced startups, being the one with the long hours, making minimal contributions at home, etc. She worked part time during many of those years, but definitely held the primary responsibility for house and kids. I think things started to shift for us because I was home more during the pandemic, and during that time I did a lot of work in individual therapy to find better work life balance, and we did a lot of work in couples therapy to understand each other better.
When my wife had an opportunity that not only let her go back to work full time, but jump several rungs up the ladder, I decided that all the talk about being equal partners didn't really mean anything unless I worked to support her in it, so that is what we did.
We are still settling into the change, but I have enjoyed it so far. There's some weirdness being the only Dad at the parent teacher committee meetings or other school events, but I am adjusting.
When my wife was the one staying at home, I had to really fight to understand how much work the homemaking was. I knew intellectually, but not in a real way. Now that I am doing it myself, I am experiencing how much work it is. Sometimes it feels like to much, but mostly it is manageable and just different. One weird thing is that I still find myself falling into the bias that it's not "real" work even when I'm doing it myself. It's remarkable how ingrained that bias is given how much we've been able to do differently as a couple.
I know there are still lots of problems for women in the workplace, and I can't solve most of them. But I hope supporting my wife and talking to other people to try to normalize it are ways to be the change I want to see in the world.
I have met a lot of other guys with similar thinking, that all women should be mothers or take on a caretaker role. Surprisingly I've also met a lot of women who deride other women if they do not fall into this boxed role. It's such a backward way of thinking that's perpetuated by a lot of right-wing media. They take for granted the fact that women actually came from that singular role in the past, that is, women used to not have the agency to decide for themselves what they can become. Funnily, we always think we live in a modern society, but don't even know that women were rejected to be recognized as persons in 1920s. I always just take it as an immediate no-no when someone begins talking about women this way. It's like they don't realize they don't have to take about themselves (as men) because they already possess said agency. It's also so cognitively warped how they throw so many scare tactics like "you'll be alone as a woman without children" or whatnot, as if there's not a thing like a childless man, deadbeat father, or father who has abandoned their children. I swear, a lot of men just pointedly blame women for their own inadequacies. They're projecting their own failures onto them.
Explains pretty much every pity party toxic male movement we have.
My wife has also experienced discrimination for choosing the "boxed role" in more liberal circles, so there's really no winning apparently. The workplace is toxic and domestic work is horrifically discriminated against (admittedly this is mostly due to said sexism).
"How dare you fall back into the stereotype and make us look bad, regardless of your goals in life" - Badly paraphrased by me 2nd-hand and 10 years removed.
This is funny to me, as I used to work with an ex of mine and (though we were counterparts for most of the time) she got promoted over me and to a different location. We'd still work together from time to time and I'd always have to say "We have the same last name but you've been talking to her to coordinate all this, I'm just the muscle!" to people...
But, for career women, I understand the stigma of 'neglecting' your 'other duties.' Dropping kids off at day care and having to explain 'Yes, Dad packs the bags and does the washing' 'no, I don't need to pass on a message to Mom about that.' becomes tiring but at least it doesn't cost me promotions or salary!
I hate to say but I don't really know the 'way forward' though... Hell, four out of my five bosses are women! Will this stereotype die out with Gen X or Millennials or will there be some other reckoning? I don't think this is a uniquely American problem but I can't imagine hundreds of cultures the world over shifting expectations in a similar timeframe.
I wish there was an archived version posted with articles that are paywalled...
https://archive.ph/QjM3u is the archive link. I got this by going to archive.ph and pasting in the url linked by OP. Be the change you want to see in the world.
Thanks, I didn’t know that site existed until today