What do you think I think? I am disgusted, and deeply disappointed in this whole gross thing. That people I admire, with unarguable talent, would condone this totalitarian fiefdom for…what, a fourth house? A boat? More sneakers?
I don’t understand how being rich can make someone such a whore. Poor people desperate to improve their (or their families lives), sure. Still not acceptable but I can understand the desperation to put food on the table. But this? I mean, it’s not like this is some commercial for a wireless service or a betting app. This is truly the definition of “blood money”. You might as well do commercials for Lockheed Martin or Zyklon B.
I really appreciate David Cross and his overall worldview (at least from what I’ve seen). I am flabbergasted when I see people talking about going to Saudi Arabia or Quatar or really just about...
I really appreciate David Cross and his overall worldview (at least from what I’ve seen). I am flabbergasted when I see people talking about going to Saudi Arabia or Quatar or really just about anywhere in the Middle East and talk about what a wonderful place it is. How on earth do people just avoid the massive systematic human rights violations?!
One of the people my husband and I follow on YouTube is Ben and David. They are a gay couple who do cruise reviews. They’re have family who live in Saudi Arabia and so sometimes they will do a trip that goes there so they can be with them. And I suppose that might be fine if they just stayed on the ship where they won’t be subject to the local laws, but they get out and even go to the theme parks! They go to a place where they could be murdered for the crime of just being who they are and then talk about what an amazing place it is. I’m honestly speechless at this behavior.
Yeah, I absolutely get this as well. I remember feeling very similar watching some Nonstop Dan videos on YouTube - he’s reviewing a Saudia Airlines flight to Riyadh and his (same sex) partner is...
Yeah, I absolutely get this as well. I remember feeling very similar watching some Nonstop Dan videos on YouTube - he’s reviewing a Saudia Airlines flight to Riyadh and his (same sex) partner is just along for the ride as if they wouldn’t have been detained and quite probably killed if they’d happened to be from there.
Like, I’m not even on the “any interaction with these countries is supporting the regime” side of things - I’m actually pretty firmly on team “most people aren’t their government and building ties between the actual population and the rest of the world is important”, and it’s a fine line to walk littered with genuine grey areas - but you have to at least acknowledge the government if you’re someone with a platform to do so.
Reviewing their services while playing happy families as if others haven’t died for doing the same is wildly disingenuous, as is acting like taking their money and accepting their restrictions to be part of a comedy show is a neutral or apolitical choice.
David Cross has been lucky enough to be successful and financially independent (I think I remember him referring himself as a C- level comedian on his last album). Good on him for using his...
David Cross has been lucky enough to be successful and financially independent (I think I remember him referring himself as a C- level comedian on his last album).
Good on him for using his privilege for good and putting his money where his mouth is.
We need to go back to shaming people for being "sell outs" and stop praising "hustle" culture. Remember when all it took to be a sell out was a record deal? Do you even remember the last time you...
We need to go back to shaming people for being "sell outs" and stop praising "hustle" culture. Remember when all it took to be a sell out was a record deal? Do you even remember the last time you heard or read the label?
I previously saw this on Reddit and spent way too much time trying to understand this without going to Wikipedia. This is from Wikipedia:
I previously saw this on Reddit and spent way too much time trying to understand this without going to Wikipedia. This is from Wikipedia:
The Riyadh Comedy Festival is an international comedy festival, taking place (...) in Saudi Arabia. (...) It is part of Saudi Arabia's Vision 2030 strategy to position the country as a destination for international cultural and artistic events.
The event has drawn backlash due to Saudi Arabia's poor human rights record. Several comedians who were invited to perform declined and spoke out against it. Humanitarian organizations have urged performers to speak out against Saudi Arabia's human rights abuses and not be complicit in whitewashing them.
Here is Bill Burr's summary of his experience there. A lot of countries do x-washing. I'm big into motorsport and watch UFC and they've both done a lot of events in dodgy regions. I can appreciate...
A lot of countries do x-washing. I'm big into motorsport and watch UFC and they've both done a lot of events in dodgy regions. I can appreciate anybody's opinion not to take part, but in the same, if a nation is cut off culturally, that doesn't do anything toward progress.
Back in 2016 Vice did an episode documenting the slavery in play to build a hotel and golf club with Trump's name on it [article / episode], if you want to get a feel for how shitty the situation is.
Ultimately, I think its good for culture to be shared, but if someone isn't comfortable with that, absolutely don't support it.
I agree that sharing culture is generally a good thing. But is it truly sharing our culture if the comedians can't openly mock or criticize the government of Saudi Arabia, and its horrendous human...
Ultimately, I think its good for culture to be shared
I agree that sharing culture is generally a good thing. But is it truly sharing our culture if the comedians can't openly mock or criticize the government of Saudi Arabia, and its horrendous human rights abuses while they're performing there? Comedians having the freedom to speak truth to power is a fundamental part of stand-up comedy in the West, and I highly doubt they will be allowed to do that while in Saudi Arabia. So all they will really be sharing with them is a heavily censored, sanitized, toned down, challenge-free version of our culture while simultaneously providing tacit support to said oppressive government and its actions.
Yeah. Maybe it's cynical but this is a facade of sharing. They're buying their way into another dimension of culture. Can I blame them? Not really. All aspects of culture that are at some level...
Yeah. Maybe it's cynical but this is a facade of sharing. They're buying their way into another dimension of culture.
Can I blame them? Not really. All aspects of culture that are at some level dominated by the west seem pretty impenetrable for the rest.
Doesn't mean I approve their human rights violations and I do think it shows lack of integrity of the comedians that go there and play by the Saudi Arabia's book.
Is it really a process though? Maybe I'm just pessimistic, but that seems like remarkably hopeful thinking to me. But even on the off chance that the comedy festival might effect some level of...
Is it really a process though? Maybe I'm just pessimistic, but that seems like remarkably hopeful thinking to me. But even on the off chance that the comedy festival might effect some level of meaningful changes eventually, is it really worth tacitly supporting the current regime and its abhorrent actions by participating in these sorts of x-washing propaganda events?
it wasn't heavily censored. how much saudi royal or islam-bashing material are you sitting on? that was the only restriction and those things aren't funny anyway and aren't part of anybody's acts....
it wasn't heavily censored. how much saudi royal or islam-bashing material are you sitting on? that was the only restriction and those things aren't funny anyway and aren't part of anybody's acts.
its all a process. look how good it goes when the US goes and forces 'democracy' onto a nation. reform takes time and patience.
From Atsuko Okatsuka (who turned down their offer to participate in the festival): I'd personally call that "heavily censored", and clearly not just "saudi royal or islam-bashing" being forbidden...
Exemplary
From Atsuko Okatsuka (who turned down their offer to participate in the festival):
Content Restrictions
ARTIST shall not prepare or perform any material that may be considered to degrade, defame, or bring into public disrepute, contempt, scandal, embarrassment, or ridicule:
A) The Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, including its leadership, public figures, culture, or people;
B) The Saudi royal family, legal system, or government, and;
C) Any religion, religious tradition, religious figure, or religious practice.
I'd personally call that "heavily censored", and clearly not just "saudi royal or islam-bashing" being forbidden topics either, based on the contract supposedly sent to all the comedians. Which was indirectly verified by Mike Birbiglia and a few other comedians who were also sent offers and replied in that same Thread.
And also worth noting is that Tim Dillon even claims he got fired from the festival for jokes he made on his podcast about slavery in SA... so it's not even the festival performances themselves that they're attempting to censor. They actively punished a comedian for making jokes about their country on his own show elsewhere on the internet. Tim was actually slated to appear but didn't end up going, so despite CBS not being able to verify that he was fired, it definitely appears like he was.
ok. there is no new information or statements in this comment. we’ve already covered the relatively basic restrictions. TD’s joke was stupid, so it makes sense to be uninvited. anyway, this is...
ok. there is no new information or statements in this comment. we’ve already covered the relatively basic restrictions. TD’s joke was stupid, so it makes sense to be uninvited.
anyway, this is going in circles. i figured you’d be more nuanced than this, to be honest.
Uh, okay. I thought I was being relatively nuanced, all things considered. I even went looking for more exact information to aid with my understanding of the situation and to help clarify things...
Uh, okay. I thought I was being relatively nuanced, all things considered. I even went looking for more exact information to aid with my understanding of the situation and to help clarify things further. Just because that information further cemented my initial negative opinion of the event doesn't mean I lack nuance though. But agree to disagree (apparently about most things regarding this comment thread and topic), I guess.
Genuinely I couldn't handle listening to that. He is not as funny or interesting when rambling through a story. I think he actively avoided addressing the point, and obviously avoided addressing...
Genuinely I couldn't handle listening to that. He is not as funny or interesting when rambling through a story. I think he actively avoided addressing the point, and obviously avoided addressing his own hypocrisy, like, I know the average Saudi isn't cutting heads off of Americans, how many* does the crown prince have to behead and dismember before we consider dealing with them and ethical violation? But whatever my heart has not been set on any of these comedians, I try to avoid the parasocial shit.
I do think it's absolutely wild for Pete Davidson to perform there considering his FDNY father's death though.
*I misremembered. Jamal Khashoggi/Khashquji was a legal resident of the US but while several of his children are American citizens he was not. I don't think that changes my point but in the interest of accuracy I wanted to make the edit.
Why? You don't sound approving of it, so I'm genuinely curious why you hope I bring the same moral standard - which to be clear is "not working with the royal family of Saudi Arabia" - to the...
Why? You don't sound approving of it, so I'm genuinely curious why you hope I bring the same moral standard - which to be clear is "not working with the royal family of Saudi Arabia" - to the products in my home.
Unless you mean the standard of "finding Bill Burr to be a hypocrite" in which case few of my household products hold the capacity. I'm suspicious of the French press though.
As a big F1 fan, yeah, the middle east races are always a bit slimy. Riyadh is another universe though. They were paid by the same entity which beheaded 22 people in the last EDIT week??? Before...
As a big F1 fan, yeah, the middle east races are always a bit slimy. Riyadh is another universe though. They were paid by the same entity which beheaded 22 people in the last EDIT week??? Before the festival??
US comedians defend decision to play in Saudi Arabia: ‘They’re paying me enough to look the other way’
It is a far cry from the principled stands comedians have taken against censorship in the past. Lenny Bruce and George Carlin, role models for many of today’s free speech warriors, both did battle with government censors: Bruce was arrested, prosecuted and convicted for his act, while Carlin’s led to a landmark supreme court decision that upheld the FCC’s authority to regulate indecency and obscenity on the public airwaves. Today’s generation of comedians prefer to use their hard-won liberties not as a weapon against the powerful, but as a license to operate free of any ethical obligations whatsoever. For these comedians, “freedom of speech” means the freedom to say anything you want, including to be cruel to racial minorities, women, trans people and immigrants; to associate with conspiracy theorists and lend their platforms to politicians set on undermining democracy.
Thank fuck for that. I saw the title and worried for a second that another seemingly decent comedian was making excuses.
I really appreciate David Cross and his overall worldview (at least from what I’ve seen). I am flabbergasted when I see people talking about going to Saudi Arabia or Quatar or really just about anywhere in the Middle East and talk about what a wonderful place it is. How on earth do people just avoid the massive systematic human rights violations?!
One of the people my husband and I follow on YouTube is Ben and David. They are a gay couple who do cruise reviews. They’re have family who live in Saudi Arabia and so sometimes they will do a trip that goes there so they can be with them. And I suppose that might be fine if they just stayed on the ship where they won’t be subject to the local laws, but they get out and even go to the theme parks! They go to a place where they could be murdered for the crime of just being who they are and then talk about what an amazing place it is. I’m honestly speechless at this behavior.
Yeah, I absolutely get this as well. I remember feeling very similar watching some Nonstop Dan videos on YouTube - he’s reviewing a Saudia Airlines flight to Riyadh and his (same sex) partner is just along for the ride as if they wouldn’t have been detained and quite probably killed if they’d happened to be from there.
Like, I’m not even on the “any interaction with these countries is supporting the regime” side of things - I’m actually pretty firmly on team “most people aren’t their government and building ties between the actual population and the rest of the world is important”, and it’s a fine line to walk littered with genuine grey areas - but you have to at least acknowledge the government if you’re someone with a platform to do so.
Reviewing their services while playing happy families as if others haven’t died for doing the same is wildly disingenuous, as is acting like taking their money and accepting their restrictions to be part of a comedy show is a neutral or apolitical choice.
David Cross has been lucky enough to be successful and financially independent (I think I remember him referring himself as a C- level comedian on his last album).
Good on him for using his privilege for good and putting his money where his mouth is.
We need to go back to shaming people for being "sell outs" and stop praising "hustle" culture. Remember when all it took to be a sell out was a record deal? Do you even remember the last time you heard or read the label?
I previously saw this on Reddit and spent way too much time trying to understand this without going to Wikipedia. This is from Wikipedia:
Here is Bill Burr's summary of his experience there.
A lot of countries do x-washing. I'm big into motorsport and watch UFC and they've both done a lot of events in dodgy regions. I can appreciate anybody's opinion not to take part, but in the same, if a nation is cut off culturally, that doesn't do anything toward progress.
Back in 2016 Vice did an episode documenting the slavery in play to build a hotel and golf club with Trump's name on it [article / episode], if you want to get a feel for how shitty the situation is.
Ultimately, I think its good for culture to be shared, but if someone isn't comfortable with that, absolutely don't support it.
I agree that sharing culture is generally a good thing. But is it truly sharing our culture if the comedians can't openly mock or criticize the government of Saudi Arabia, and its horrendous human rights abuses while they're performing there? Comedians having the freedom to speak truth to power is a fundamental part of stand-up comedy in the West, and I highly doubt they will be allowed to do that while in Saudi Arabia. So all they will really be sharing with them is a heavily censored, sanitized, toned down, challenge-free version of our culture while simultaneously providing tacit support to said oppressive government and its actions.
Yeah. Maybe it's cynical but this is a facade of sharing. They're buying their way into another dimension of culture.
Can I blame them? Not really. All aspects of culture that are at some level dominated by the west seem pretty impenetrable for the rest.
Doesn't mean I approve their human rights violations and I do think it shows lack of integrity of the comedians that go there and play by the Saudi Arabia's book.
yes. that is jumping to the end and it’s unrealistic. it’s a process, not a solution.
Is it really a process though? Maybe I'm just pessimistic, but that seems like remarkably hopeful thinking to me. But even on the off chance that the comedy festival might effect some level of meaningful changes eventually, is it really worth tacitly supporting the current regime and its abhorrent actions by participating in these sorts of x-washing propaganda events?
it wasn't heavily censored. how much saudi royal or islam-bashing material are you sitting on? that was the only restriction and those things aren't funny anyway and aren't part of anybody's acts.
its all a process. look how good it goes when the US goes and forces 'democracy' onto a nation. reform takes time and patience.
From Atsuko Okatsuka (who turned down their offer to participate in the festival):
I'd personally call that "heavily censored", and clearly not just "saudi royal or islam-bashing" being forbidden topics either, based on the contract supposedly sent to all the comedians. Which was indirectly verified by Mike Birbiglia and a few other comedians who were also sent offers and replied in that same Thread.
And also worth noting is that Tim Dillon even claims he got fired from the festival for jokes he made on his podcast about slavery in SA... so it's not even the festival performances themselves that they're attempting to censor. They actively punished a comedian for making jokes about their country on his own show elsewhere on the internet. Tim was actually slated to appear but didn't end up going, so despite CBS not being able to verify that he was fired, it definitely appears like he was.
ok. there is no new information or statements in this comment. we’ve already covered the relatively basic restrictions. TD’s joke was stupid, so it makes sense to be uninvited.
anyway, this is going in circles. i figured you’d be more nuanced than this, to be honest.
Uh, okay. I thought I was being relatively nuanced, all things considered. I even went looking for more exact information to aid with my understanding of the situation and to help clarify things further. Just because that information further cemented my initial negative opinion of the event doesn't mean I lack nuance though. But agree to disagree (apparently about most things regarding this comment thread and topic), I guess.
Genuinely I couldn't handle listening to that. He is not as funny or interesting when rambling through a story. I think he actively avoided addressing the point, and obviously avoided addressing his own hypocrisy, like, I know the average Saudi isn't cutting heads off of Americans, how many* does the crown prince have to behead and dismember before we consider dealing with them and ethical violation? But whatever my heart has not been set on any of these comedians, I try to avoid the parasocial shit.
I do think it's absolutely wild for Pete Davidson to perform there considering his FDNY father's death though.
*I misremembered. Jamal Khashoggi/Khashquji was a legal resident of the US but while several of his children are American citizens he was not. I don't think that changes my point but in the interest of accuracy I wanted to make the edit.
I hope you judge the products in your household with the same level of moral scrutiny.
Why? You don't sound approving of it, so I'm genuinely curious why you hope I bring the same moral standard - which to be clear is "not working with the royal family of Saudi Arabia" - to the products in my home.
Unless you mean the standard of "finding Bill Burr to be a hypocrite" in which case few of my household products hold the capacity. I'm suspicious of the French press though.
So, why are you hopeful?
As a big F1 fan, yeah, the middle east races are always a bit slimy. Riyadh is another universe though. They were paid by the same entity which beheaded 22 people in the last EDIT week??? Before the festival??
https://www.theguardian.com/culture/2025/sep/30/riyadh-comedy-festival-saudi-arabia