Trump/Biden 2020 Presidential Debate #2 Discussion Thread
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Debate starts ~90 minutes from the time of this posting.
Info from The Washington Post:
Location: Belmont University in Nashville
Moderator: Kristen Welker, NBC News White House correspondent and co-anchor of “Weekend Today”
Details: The debate will be 90 minutes long and have no commercial breaks. It will be divided into six 15-minute segments that the moderator has chosen. They are: fighting covid-19, American families, race in America, climate change, national security and leadership.
Trump’s campaign has criticized the topics, saying they thought this was supposed to be a foreign policy debate. The head of the Commission on Presidential Debates said that’s not true.
Trump has criticized the moderator, Welker, as being biased, as he has other moderators. The commission and even a Fox News host have defended Welker’s integrity.
The commission also announced days before the debate that in light of Trump’s frequent interruptions during the first one, it will silence the microphone of the candidate who is not speaking during the two-minute opening segment for each candidate. After each candidate has two minutes, there will be an open discussion where both microphones will be on, but the commission urged civility in a statement: “It is the hope of the Commission that the candidates will be respectful of each other’s time.” The Trump campaign said it still will participate, despite the president criticizing a potential virtual debate as a forum where it would be too easy to silence his microphone.
The first 45 minutes or so, I thought Trump was actually acting like an adult, for once. But he apparently can't keep up the act for much longer than that.
Still, he talked over the moderator more than Biden, which I was happy for. Overall, between the two debates, this was definitely the one to watch.
Welker is all business, and I am here for it. She's doing a great job so far.
Also, Trump is finally admitting that things are terrible and is trying to position himself as a savior. It's disgusting.
I had to turn it off. I realize I just said "shut your fucking mouth" to my TV screen and was getting angry.
Good luck. If your country burns more, you can come live in my basement.
Edit: y'all can come live in my basement. Canada gets pretty cold in the winter though, and I'll practice "y'all"ing more so y'all can feel at home.
Does this offer extend to other adrift Americans?
Yes, though it'll get packed pretty quickly.
Party in aphoenix's basement!
We adrift Americans might be numerous, but we can earn our keep by dividing and completing household tasks like you've never seen. You'll never have to cook, clean, do laundry, or shovel snow ever again!
We don't have cable, but I'm thinking about getting gigabit internet, so... maybe that's better?
(that was a cool article that I'd missed, thanks)
/r/NeutralPolitics is running a live fact-checking thread: https://www.reddit.com/r/NeutralPolitics/comments/jgakue/2020_final_us_presidential_debate_real_time_fact/
Hey that's us!
I wanna go on record as unable to chew gum and walk at the same time. I mean I can get around while snacking but if it's gum I gotta cheek tuck before I get out. Biden 2020 for training gum distribution to pedestrians.
I also appreciated the moment early on when Trump said (regarding covid19) "I take full responsibility; it's china's fault"
Sorry if it makes you feel disparaged, but "We can chew gum and walk at the same time" is one of my favorite political slogans so far. We'll get you there, friend. One step at a time.
And yes, that moment was particularly amazing: After spending 30+ seconds claiming he does take responsibility, he then quickly does a lateral and passes it to China. Foul play, but that topic had gone too far overtime to throw the flag.
Trump's answer about health care was some of the worst word salad. He talked down Obamacare, then talked about running it himself but better, but then it was good so it's not Obamacare, but then it's bad so they're getting rid of it. It was completely unfollowable and at points felt like he was arguing against himself.
On replacing Obamacare, Biden offered more details in two minutes than Trump has in four years.
Shame that just as Biden was hitting a good rhetorical stride he fumbled by saying 'Home Insurance'. I really wish he were even half the orator that Obama is.
He's really missed out on a couple of points that he could have really hit a home run on, like Trump's word-salad on Obamacare. A better orator could have absolutely demolished him after that garbage.
This part confused me worst of all. I could have sworn he just said that removing the individual mandate made it not Obamacare anymore... So, why are we still painting it as that specific demon?
Some very salient points were made throughout, I think this was definitely the better of the two debates. I'm glad both candidates mostly respected each other's speaking, there was definitely an improved decorum over the last debate.
It was interesting to see Trump spend so much time trying to promote this laptop "story" and calling Biden a corrupt politician. He was obviously speaking to his base there, so I guess I'm just in awe that he's not trying to pull his usual "maybe it's true maybe it's not, lots of people are saying it" garbage and is instead doubling down on that being a major selling point. It seems somewhat hollow for anyone who's been paying attention to how corruptly this administration has been run.
I was glad that Biden was able to stand firm and lay out his plans in a calm, efficient manner. It gave especially sharp contrast to the ramblings coming from the other podium. I feel like on the coronavirus questions he kind of floundered, like he didn't want to over-promise and under-deliver, so he instead spent his time attacking Trump's failures, but once the topics turned to the economy and social justice I think he really found his stride.
Also, I love that "come on, man" is basically a campaign slogan at this point. Biden almost seems like a sitcom character during these debates, with how often he's looking into the camera. This whole debate was a goldmine for incredulous Biden reaction expressions and frustrated Trump wanting-to-speak expressions. If I were an ambitious gif-maker I'd be having a heyday.
Oh, oh! And bonus points for "no president (with the possible, possible exception but maybe not) since Abraham Lincoln has done more than I have for black people" -- I knew he had tweeted something to that effect at one point but to see that said live actually made me burst out laughing. Along with "I'm the least racist person in this room" -- said to a moderator who is a person of color. (Who took it in stride, what a pro) I'm super-glad that Biden turned that around on him too with "Abraham Lincoln over here..." Oh man, on one level it's kind of sad that presidential debates have turned into a contest of zingers, but on the other level it's so humanizing to see these people get so frustrated with each other.
Not just that, but he REALLY hung his hat on the "least racist person in the room" bit. One time can be explained away as a gaffe, but he kept hitting it over and over again, going so far as to include the audience and talk about how he can't even see them but he knows he's less racist than them. It was deeply uncomfortable.
Also, I just realized I'm falling into the trap of talking about the spectacle of his answers rather than focusing in on substance (or lack thereof): he said these things in response to direct questions about racial issues that he did not answer. It's like how the fly on Pence's head got more coverage than Pence saying he believed that justice was served in the Breonna Taylor case.
When asked "Do you understand why African American parents are fearful for their children?", the only part of Trump's answer that addressed that was "yes I do" with no further explanation. That's the real story here.
I really hope no-one actually believes this absurd fairy tale that Trump is weaving about him single-handedly preventing nuclear war.
Well... I got my hard seltzer open and my punching bag set up. So, this should be fun!
This was MUCH better than the trainwreck that was debate #1.
Welker did an incredible job. She kept them to time, successfully redirected them, forced them to stay on topic, and asked good questions. She really impressed me.
Trump did his usual thing where he takes control of the conversation and forces his opponent to play defense. Biden dodged it a couple of times but ended up indulging Trump's strategy more than I would have preferred.
Ultimately though, I don't think there's even much value to analyzing the rhetoric of this. Even on his best behavior Trump is clearly a con man, and that was on full display tonight. After months of downplaying the negative impact of COVID he now leaned into it and tried to use it to make himself look like a savior. He couldn't answer a question about the health care plan he doesn't have. He used the same old line about his tax returns that was unconvincing when he first used it four years ago. He refused to acknowledge any impact of racism in our country and repeatedly referred to himself as "the least racist person in this room" in response to a question about his disapproval of Black Lives Matter and his approval of "white power" messaging.
He blatantly lies and is constantly inflammatory. His strategy mostly seems to be to try and cast everyone else as wet blankets when that's all they can be in order to put out the fires he keeps deliberately setting.
I'm late to watch this -- but cutting mics is so good.
Kristen Welker is doing an excellent job balancing questions and letting them speak / rant.
I'm not a Trump fan at all, but at least by the 1h15m point, this is possibly the most presidential I've seen the guy... which doesn't say a lot, but I think we can credit the structure / expectations of the debate.
Yes.
This tweet summed it up pretty well for me:
I'm cautiously optimistic, based mostly on the 538 forecast model, about Biden winning the Presidency, and doing it by a large enough margin that the election ratfuckery the Trump administration has obviously planned for won't be feasible.
I'm far less optimistic about things other than Biden winning. For example, 538 Senate forecast shows 75% chance of Democrats winning a majority, but most likely a very narrow majority (51 or 52 seats).
Unless Democrats grow a spine and abolish the filibuster, a majority that small in the Senate will still not be enough to make meaningful progress on things such as climate change.
Biden also said today that he's planning on a bipartisan commission on court reform, and giving them 6 months to make recommendations. Which does not inspire confidence for me that they're going to make a real effort to reform SCOTUS and the lower federal courts.
Personally, I’ll probably drink a slightly irresponsible but not too irresponsible amount. If that’s your kind of thing, I suppose it seems like the night.
I'm pretty confident Biden is going to win, but I'm anxious nonetheless. I also think Dems have a really good shot taking control of the Senate or at least splitting it, but I'm more emotionally prepared to handle that not happening.
More than anything, I just can't wait for the election to be over and done with, honestly. Biden and Dem control isn't going to be a magic wand or anything, but I just need to return to a world where my head-of-state isn't embarrassingly stupid and pathologically narcissistic.
As an outside observer, to me it seems if the Dems do get control of the senate, admitting D.C. and Puerto Rico as states should be super high on the priority list. Not only is this the equitable thing to do, the balance of power in the states seems extraordinarily in favour of conservatives. Time to fix that.
Honestly? Mostly exhausted.
I don't speak about Trump often, and when I do I usually don't speak with full honesty out of politeness, but I'm at the point where I'm too tired to give a shit anymore. I'm fucking sick of him.
It's a part of myself that I try not to feed because I don't like living in contempt, but tonight's debate gave it a sizable serving, and I can't ignore the fact that I find him utterly insufferable. I'm someone who genuinely tries to see the best in everyone and be empathetic. I value harmony and decency. But watching him tonight was the strongest of reminders that I believe him to be an inflammatory, narcissistic con man who deliberately shits on all of the values I hold dear. Even worse, he seemingly delights himself in doing it.
He exhausts me. I am so tired of having him as the head of our country. He has eroded the very idea of leadership into something unrecognizable.
I saw a truck with a "Trump 2020: Fuck Your Feelings" flag on it on my way home from work today. The fact that I didn't bat an eye says something about how far down he's dragged us. Our current sitting President has people openly supporting him with "Fuck Your Feelings" flags. This is America.
That kind of thing should make me angry, which I'm sure would delight them, but I'm honestly too tired to get worked up over it. Go ahead: fuck my feelings. They're already dead anyway.
The election is less than two weeks away. There are a lot of unknowns. The one known I keep coming back to is this: based on what he has said multiple times and what we know of his character, Trump will not concede in the event of a loss. I believe this to be one of the few things that is relatively certain, and its implications are staggering.
I think it means that the ugliness we already see on full display now, from him and from our country, is about to get far, far worse.
I want to be able to go twenty four hours without thinking about it. I want someone who isn't a nincompoop as president
So who won the debate?
Biden the winner of final debate, TV viewers and undecided voters say
The Guardian – Lois Beckett – 23rd October 2020
Just saw a FB post on /r/selfawarewolves criticizing Google, because they have 800 million results for "who won the debate" and none of the articles on the first 10 pages of results say Trump...
I think the muting is only for those sections where the moderator says 'X minutes to speak without interruption'.
I think they've been eyeing the timers very carefully and keeping to time for the most part, but there have definitely been a few instances of muting. Biden started responding to an answer early and was visibly talking without his voice being broadcast, and Trump has also been cut off by it as well.
I guess they just threatened to. It seems to be keeping Trump from interrupting as much as last time.