It might be more apt to ask: "what's going on with men and masculinity?". Regardless if we are talking about Hollywood and other industries, accusations against abusive women are rare I can't...
It might be more apt to ask: "what's going on with men and masculinity?". Regardless if we are talking about Hollywood and other industries, accusations against abusive women are rare I can't think of a single one right now. Maybe they're underreported.
One could generalize more and ask "what's going on with people in positions of power and prestige?", and argue that the accused are mostly men because men are the ones in positions of power and prestige. But I don't know.
I disagree. I am a man. It is possible to be a man and not have those issues. But, to me, it is clear that some issues are fundamentally masculine and cannot be solely explained by structures of...
This makes it sound like it’s impossible to be a man and not have these issues…
I disagree. I am a man. It is possible to be a man and not have those issues. But, to me, it is clear that some issues are fundamentally masculine and cannot be solely explained by structures of power and wealth. I believe that some of those behaviors are intrinsic to ideas of masculinity that are prevalent in many societies. While it is not true that all men harbor toxic beliefs that are at the root of abuses of many kinds, it is true that, as a group, we require intense introspection and self-criticism.
Masculinity must be collectively rebuilt[1], but this shouldn't be interpreted as an implicit accusation towards any man in particular.
[1] and there are obviously many good things about masculinity.
I've spent most of my working life working almost exclusively with men, in male-dominated industries. Absolutely, without equivocation, "what's going on with men and masculinity?" is (much more...
I've spent most of my working life working almost exclusively with men, in male-dominated industries. Absolutely, without equivocation, "what's going on with men and masculinity?" is (much more than) a fair question to ask. Toxic masculinity crosses all class and social boundaries, in my experience.
In which country? I’m starting to feel we might be speaking a different language due to cultural differences. My francophone ass was taught fairly early on to for example not be shy about...
In which country? I’m starting to feel we might be speaking a different language due to cultural differences.
My francophone ass was taught fairly early on to for example not be shy about emotions. I’ve surprised my further eastern friends and SOs with this.
Yes, masculinity is a word which refers to a confluence of factors and culture is one of its components. Maybe it is a way to refer to culture in regards to men -- masculine culture.
Yes, masculinity is a word which refers to a confluence of factors and culture is one of its components. Maybe it is a way to refer to culture in regards to men -- masculine culture.
I'm not an anthropologist, but from what I've gathered...not really. Tribal cultures were a lot more elegatarian on average. I personally think the rise of monotheism accellerated any existing...
Isn't this more a feature of masculinity that has always been a part of humanity
I'm not an anthropologist, but from what I've gathered...not really. Tribal cultures were a lot more elegatarian on average.
I personally think the rise of monotheism accellerated any existing problems by eliminating diversity in favor of a more heirarchal 'obey or be damned' attitude.
The highest profile ones against women that I’m aware of are against current governor of New Mexico Michelle Lujan Grisham and former MeToo figure head Asia Argento.
The highest profile ones against women that I’m aware of are against current governor of New Mexico Michelle Lujan Grisham and former MeToo figure head Asia Argento.
there have been a lot of stories over the years about Murray being difficult but also stories about him being excellent to work with (the easiest to find are the stories from Lost in Translation.)...
there have been a lot of stories over the years about Murray being difficult but also stories about him being excellent to work with (the easiest to find are the stories from Lost in Translation.) This doesn't excuse Gina Davis' massager incident or him yelling at her, but these accounts are always missing so much context and always seem to be surrounding the release of a book.
I can't imagine how many people have been yelled at by their co-workers.
It'd be a shame if Bill Murray ends up being something horrible. Rob Schneider is really on a PR campaign lately. He's popping up every few days with a quip, a guest spot on a podcast, or something else.
The more I hear about Murray the more I think that him being "difficult to work with" is seriously downplaying it, in yet another case of Hollywood minimizing and normalizing a male star's...
It'd be a shame if Bill Murray ends up being something horrible.
The more I hear about Murray the more I think that him being "difficult to work with" is seriously downplaying it, in yet another case of Hollywood minimizing and normalizing a male star's abhorrent behavior. I like his movies, and I think he's incredibly funny, but I suspect that now that the flood gates are opening all his old skeletons are going to come tumbling out of the closet to bury him, his career, and his legacy... maybe even rightly so, too.
E.g. As mentioned in the article, Seth Green told a story a few days ago on GMM that he'd never shared before about how Murray bullied him when he was on SNL as a child. He makes it into a funny anecdote, but it actually sounds like genuinely horrible behavior from Murray, and was probably pretty traumatizing for Seth to experience as a 9 year old. On the plus side though, the story makes Eddie Murphy sound like a way more awesome dude than I ever thought he was.
I've always had this vibe from Murray, honestly. I've always been sort of baffled by how he's beloved as a celebrity. I love his acting (What About Bob is an unsung masterpiece), but he, like...
I've always had this vibe from Murray, honestly. I've always been sort of baffled by how he's beloved as a celebrity. I love his acting (What About Bob is an unsung masterpiece), but he, like Chevy Chase, always seems a little too comfortable playing a total jerk.
He's part of a trifecta of celebrities that I've never gotten the vibe that most others got. The first was Cosby (and no one ever believes me, oddly... they think I'm bandwagoning. Bill Cosby Himself was the first crack in the veneer, IMO), the second is Murray. The third, and I catch Hell whenever I mention it, is Tom Hanks. I don't know what it is about him, but he doesn't seem 100% genuine to me. I have no proof, and I'm not accusing him of anything, but he just seems... off, somehow, in some way that I can't quite put my finger on.
Edit: It occurred to me that I might be unclear, in that I'm referring to Cosby's videotaped standup "Bill Cosby Himself", not like the man himself came out and said anything specific outside of his professional work at that time.
The documentary miniseries "We Need to Talk About Cosby" does a great job of explaining why he was so important and loved by very many people, but also just how fucking creepy he was, openly,...
The first was Cosby (and no one ever believes me, oddly... they think I'm bandwagoning. Bill Cosby Himself
The documentary miniseries "We Need to Talk About Cosby" does a great job of explaining why he was so important and loved by very many people, but also just how fucking creepy he was, openly, right from the beginning of his career.
Murray’s career is already over. He was taken off of Wes Anderson’s next movie Asteroid City due to vague “COVID reasons.” And this new Aziz Ansari movie (which is what started all of this) is...
Murray’s career is already over. He was taken off of Wes Anderson’s next movie Asteroid City due to vague “COVID reasons.” And this new Aziz Ansari movie (which is what started all of this) is probably not gonna resume production.
Either way, when Wes Anderson is taking off his long-time friend due to his controversy it means Murray’s prospects for his late career are dead.
Oof, I didn't know about that. If even Anderson is distancing himself from Murray that is indeed a really bad sign. Also kinda makes you wonder what Anderson knows that the rest of us don't yet.
Oof, I didn't know about that. If even Anderson is distancing himself from Murray that is indeed a really bad sign. Also kinda makes you wonder what Anderson knows that the rest of us don't yet.
Honestly, what's going on in Hollywood?
It might be more apt to ask: "what's going on with men and masculinity?". Regardless if we are talking about Hollywood and other industries, accusations against abusive women are rare I can't think of a single one right now. Maybe they're underreported.
One could generalize more and ask "what's going on with people in positions of power and prestige?", and argue that the accused are mostly men because men are the ones in positions of power and prestige. But I don't know.
This makes it sound like it’s impossible to be a man and not have these issues…
Power issues is more correct imo
I disagree. I am a man. It is possible to be a man and not have those issues. But, to me, it is clear that some issues are fundamentally masculine and cannot be solely explained by structures of power and wealth. I believe that some of those behaviors are intrinsic to ideas of masculinity that are prevalent in many societies. While it is not true that all men harbor toxic beliefs that are at the root of abuses of many kinds, it is true that, as a group, we require intense introspection and self-criticism.
Masculinity must be collectively rebuilt[1], but this shouldn't be interpreted as an implicit accusation towards any man in particular.
[1] and there are obviously many good things about masculinity.
I've spent most of my working life working almost exclusively with men, in male-dominated industries. Absolutely, without equivocation, "what's going on with men and masculinity?" is (much more than) a fair question to ask. Toxic masculinity crosses all class and social boundaries, in my experience.
In which country? I’m starting to feel we might be speaking a different language due to cultural differences.
My francophone ass was taught fairly early on to for example not be shy about emotions. I’ve surprised my further eastern friends and SOs with this.
It is possible that your experiences are very different from those of English speaking countries that make for the majority of Tildes users.
Wouldn't that point to those issues not being "fundamentally masculine", but rather, fundamentally cultural?
Yes, masculinity is a word which refers to a confluence of factors and culture is one of its components. Maybe it is a way to refer to culture in regards to men -- masculine culture.
I'm not an anthropologist, but from what I've gathered...not really. Tribal cultures were a lot more elegatarian on average.
I personally think the rise of monotheism accellerated any existing problems by eliminating diversity in favor of a more heirarchal 'obey or be damned' attitude.
Which seems long, but our brains have been fully developed for about 100,000 years.
Modern civilization is a blip.
The highest profile ones against women that I’m aware of are against current governor of New Mexico Michelle Lujan Grisham and former MeToo figure head Asia Argento.
there have been a lot of stories over the years about Murray being difficult but also stories about him being excellent to work with (the easiest to find are the stories from Lost in Translation.) This doesn't excuse Gina Davis' massager incident or him yelling at her, but these accounts are always missing so much context and always seem to be surrounding the release of a book.
I can't imagine how many people have been yelled at by their co-workers.
It'd be a shame if Bill Murray ends up being something horrible. Rob Schneider is really on a PR campaign lately. He's popping up every few days with a quip, a guest spot on a podcast, or something else.
The more I hear about Murray the more I think that him being "difficult to work with" is seriously downplaying it, in yet another case of Hollywood minimizing and normalizing a male star's abhorrent behavior. I like his movies, and I think he's incredibly funny, but I suspect that now that the flood gates are opening all his old skeletons are going to come tumbling out of the closet to bury him, his career, and his legacy... maybe even rightly so, too.
E.g. As mentioned in the article, Seth Green told a story a few days ago on GMM that he'd never shared before about how Murray bullied him when he was on SNL as a child. He makes it into a funny anecdote, but it actually sounds like genuinely horrible behavior from Murray, and was probably pretty traumatizing for Seth to experience as a 9 year old. On the plus side though, the story makes Eddie Murphy sound like a way more awesome dude than I ever thought he was.
I've always had this vibe from Murray, honestly. I've always been sort of baffled by how he's beloved as a celebrity. I love his acting (What About Bob is an unsung masterpiece), but he, like Chevy Chase, always seems a little too comfortable playing a total jerk.
He's part of a trifecta of celebrities that I've never gotten the vibe that most others got. The first was Cosby (and no one ever believes me, oddly... they think I'm bandwagoning. Bill Cosby Himself was the first crack in the veneer, IMO), the second is Murray. The third, and I catch Hell whenever I mention it, is Tom Hanks. I don't know what it is about him, but he doesn't seem 100% genuine to me. I have no proof, and I'm not accusing him of anything, but he just seems... off, somehow, in some way that I can't quite put my finger on.
Edit: It occurred to me that I might be unclear, in that I'm referring to Cosby's videotaped standup "Bill Cosby Himself", not like the man himself came out and said anything specific outside of his professional work at that time.
The documentary miniseries "We Need to Talk About Cosby" does a great job of explaining why he was so important and loved by very many people, but also just how fucking creepy he was, openly, right from the beginning of his career.
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt16378210/
Murray’s career is already over. He was taken off of Wes Anderson’s next movie Asteroid City due to vague “COVID reasons.” And this new Aziz Ansari movie (which is what started all of this) is probably not gonna resume production.
Either way, when Wes Anderson is taking off his long-time friend due to his controversy it means Murray’s prospects for his late career are dead.
Oof, I didn't know about that. If even Anderson is distancing himself from Murray that is indeed a really bad sign. Also kinda makes you wonder what Anderson knows that the rest of us don't yet.