8 votes

Avatar: The Way of Water | Final trailer

16 comments

  1. [7]
    Bullmaestro
    Link
    Avatar was really nothing special. Many rightly pointed out it was a retelling of Pocahontas with a big-dick CGI budget. The Way of Water looks like it's going to be the same, but in a different...

    Avatar was really nothing special. Many rightly pointed out it was a retelling of Pocahontas with a big-dick CGI budget. The Way of Water looks like it's going to be the same, but in a different decade.

    I'm honestly more surprised it took James Cameron thirteen years to release a follow-up.

    9 votes
    1. [4]
      lou
      Link Parent
      The Pocahontas argument is a weak one. Stories are retold every day, that is a necessary practice given the fact that we, as a species, have recurring themes that must be addressed and presented...

      The Pocahontas argument is a weak one. Stories are retold every day, that is a necessary practice given the fact that we, as a species, have recurring themes that must be addressed and presented to new generations. Human culture advances through a neverending cycle of repetition with addition.

      The reason people hate Avatar with a force is that they cannot cope with the fact that someone like James Cameron decided to dedicate his career, along with obscene budgets, to a genre that is considered artistically inferior by his typical fans. The same thing happened with Titanic, and the genre is melodrama.

      6 votes
      1. [3]
        TheJorro
        (edited )
        Link Parent
        If anything, that all sounds way more like the reception Michael Bay gets. There's many perfectly good reasons to find Avatar underwhelming, and finding it to be yet-another-retread of Pocahantas...

        If anything, that all sounds way more like the reception Michael Bay gets. There's many perfectly good reasons to find Avatar underwhelming, and finding it to be yet-another-retread of Pocahantas is one of them.

        5 votes
        1. cloud_loud
          Link Parent
          Cameron has often been called “the thinking man’s Michael Bay."

          Cameron has often been called “the thinking man’s Michael Bay."

          4 votes
        2. lou
          Link Parent
          Well, I disagree entirely. But that's okay ;)

          Well, I disagree entirely. But that's okay ;)

          3 votes
    2. [2]
      CharlieConway
      Link Parent
      Dances with Wolves, The Last Samurai, Avatar, they're all examples of the exact same story that utilizes the White Savior narrative in film. Avatar just does it with space aliens. It was quite the...

      Dances with Wolves, The Last Samurai, Avatar, they're all examples of the exact same story that utilizes the White Savior narrative in film. Avatar just does it with space aliens. It was quite the technological accomplishment but a boring story. I'm sure The Way of Water is going to be a hit but I've got no desire to rush out to the theater. It took me a few years to get around to seeing the first movie so I'm sure that'll be the case with this one too.

      4 votes
      1. cloud_loud
        Link Parent
        The Last Samurai is funny because it was a huge hit in Japan. It made more in Japan than it did in the U.S. It’s one of, if not the reason Japan has a Tom Cruise day. Which would eventually lead...

        The Last Samurai is funny because it was a huge hit in Japan. It made more in Japan than it did in the U.S. It’s one of, if not the reason Japan has a Tom Cruise day. Which would eventually lead to Tom Cruise adapting All You Need is Kill into Edge of Tomorrow.

        5 votes
  2. lou
    Link
    The first Avatar was a wonderful journey with a brilliant approach to multiculturalism and assimilation, an insightful comment on identity and transhumanism (what it means to be human?). The world...

    The first Avatar was a wonderful journey with a brilliant approach to multiculturalism and assimilation, an insightful comment on identity and transhumanism (what it means to be human?). The world that the movie presented had a hypnotic quality that produced, in much of the audience, enduring fascination. I (we) did not want to leave the movie theater and go back to our boring non-blue lives.

    However, I cannot say that this trailer (that I watched in my 55" TV) connected me to the emotions I had with the first film. It is possible that without the plot of Jake Sully's transformation, we're left without an in-movie counterpart to translate to us the experience of immersing ourselves in that fabulous world. We'll see.

    5 votes
  3. [4]
    nothis
    Link
    I mean, could be fun, people in the comments on youtube seem to be very excited (an I decided not to get paranoid about that, lol). Something I noticed about the CGI, interestingly, is that the...

    I mean, could be fun, people in the comments on youtube seem to be very excited (an I decided not to get paranoid about that, lol).

    Something I noticed about the CGI, interestingly, is that the gap between videogame graphics and hollywood CGI is closing faster than I thought possible. You can see that it's a 20-hours-per-frame render in the water effects and vegetation but there's probably 2-second bits of this trailer that, if you had told me it's from Horizon: Forbidden West, I would have believed it. A future PS5-exclusive Naughty Dog game or something could probably get closer. I mean this as a huge compliment to video games but hollywood effects seem to be a bit stuck for a while, now. Like... my brain refuses to accept these scenes to be "real", it's all just a little too soft, too perfectly moving. We're past the plastic stage but maybe it's just something about posing and camera work that gives the director too much control to make things "perfect". Maybe it's just because every single frame includes blue people or mechs.

    3 votes
    1. [3]
      Omnicrola
      Link Parent
      Oh man, so rapidly. For those who are unaware, Unreal Engine 5 is now used in a LOT of productions on both TV and movies. So your observation is actually a lot more spot on than you might think....

      he gap between videogame graphics and hollywood CGI is closing faster than I thought possible.

      Oh man, so rapidly. For those who are unaware, Unreal Engine 5 is now used in a LOT of productions on both TV and movies. So your observation is actually a lot more spot on than you might think. Virtual production is a space I've just started working in, and the tech that is available allows for such incredible visuals to be created with such incredible speed is mindblowing.

      2 votes
      1. [2]
        nothis
        Link Parent
        I saw some making of for The Mandalorian, and it's kinda breathtaking. I think they used real-time imagery on a LED wall synced to camera movement and it ended up in final production shots (?). It...

        I saw some making of for The Mandalorian, and it's kinda breathtaking. I think they used real-time imagery on a LED wall synced to camera movement and it ended up in final production shots (?). It looked perfect. I doubt Avatar 2 used that extensively, though, since it doesn't even use real people?

        2 votes
        1. Omnicrola
          Link Parent
          Correct, Mandalorian was one of the first to do it, but that same tech is proliferating pretty rapidly. The team I'm on is currently in the process of building our own LED volume at University of...

          Correct, Mandalorian was one of the first to do it, but that same tech is proliferating pretty rapidly. The team I'm on is currently in the process of building our own LED volume at University of Michigan. Partly so we can shoot online educational content with it, but a major part is so that we can train students on how to work with the tech, because production companies are desperately trying to find staff but nobody has experience working with something so new.

          And you're correct, the image on the wall is v-sync'd to the camera, and that shot ends up in the final cut. Sometimes with some extra VFX layered on top, but often the shot in the camera is the final shot. If you'd like to see some more behind-the-scenes on how the stuff, here's a write up on Star Trek Discovery : https://www.unrealengine.com/en-US/spotlights/why-pxo-created-a-real-life-holodeck-for-star-trek-discovery

          And a presentation from Unrealfest from last month on how they incorporate LiDAR and photogrammetry scanned assets into the virtual production workflow : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=laNgsMF7ymk

          2 votes
  4. gco
    Link
    Sideways has an amazing video going into details about the soundtrack for Avatar and what it could have been.

    Sideways has an amazing video going into details about the soundtrack for Avatar and what it could have been.

    1 vote
  5. [2]
    deknalis
    Link
    I kind of feel like the whole "haha space Pocahontas" thing held more water (ha) during the brief window after Avatar's release when people weren't lining up to see 5 structurally identical...

    I kind of feel like the whole "haha space Pocahontas" thing held more water (ha) during the brief window after Avatar's release when people weren't lining up to see 5 structurally identical superhero movies a year that are half made before they even have a director.

    Personally I think it's a win these days just to get a blockbuster that looks like it's actually been looked at by a human who knows what blocking and color grading is.

    1 vote
    1. cloud_loud
      Link Parent
      Yeah this and Top Gun are the two blockbusters this year that actually feel like they were made by filmmakers with a vision.

      Yeah this and Top Gun are the two blockbusters this year that actually feel like they were made by filmmakers with a vision.

      2 votes
  6. eladnarra
    Link
    This is maybe silly of me, but why are so many people speaking English in the trailers? Like, it makes some sense for "guy who used to be human" to speak English to his daughter, but I feel like...

    This is maybe silly of me, but why are so many people speaking English in the trailers? Like, it makes some sense for "guy who used to be human" to speak English to his daughter, but I feel like I've seen many moments in trailers where Na'vi are all talking in English amongst each other.

    I guess the reason is probably "people in charge didn't want to make audiences have to read subtitles for a conlang for much of the movie." But still kinda disappointing.

    1 vote