In my personal opinion, it does sound crazy at first. As people I play board games with mentioned, it sounds like Fallout minus the 50s aesthetic and bottle caps as currency. On the other hand,...
In my personal opinion, it does sound crazy at first. As people I play board games with mentioned, it sounds like Fallout minus the 50s aesthetic and bottle caps as currency. On the other hand, grocery stores (namely Walmart) already do sell guns and ammo, so it isn't actually that new of a concept. I think the aspect of it being in a vending machine is what surprises people. The U.S. is not like Japan where they have vendingmachinesforanythingandeverything.
This also will verify a customer's identity with numerous methods, so it seems secure in that sense. I don't see a 16 year old successfully buying something from one of these without assistance from someone else. Considering the precautions, I honestly don't think it'll be that big of an issue. The issue I do see is: how secure is it? Can someone break into it and steal ammo? Is it in a secure location in a store?
The fact that they sold guns and ammo at Wal-Mart was already bonkers. The fact that this is only a small step past that means that it is still bonkers. What is the actual benefit here? I believe...
The fact that they sold guns and ammo at Wal-Mart was already bonkers. The fact that this is only a small step past that means that it is still bonkers. What is the actual benefit here?
I believe the aspect of it being a vending machine makes the situation more dangerous to the people who are already the most at risk of dying by gun violence - the people holding the guns. If you're experiencing suicidal ideation and you have a gun, but no ammo, now you don't even have to talk to a person to have all the supplies you need to kill yourself. You don't have to pretend that you want the ammo for something else, or make small talk. You just head on down to the grocery store and pick some up from the vending machine.
I'm honestly not sure what impact this will have on murders using guns. I don't think getting the ammo is a significant hurdle there at all. I do doubt that it will have any impact on accidental gun fatalities. In those cases the storage of the gun is more important than how it was obtained. But I would bet serious money that it's going to increase the rate of suicides using guns.
I forgot to write about that. I completely agree. I've read stories about people who work in gun stores and have to deny selling a gun because the person is obviously depressed (can be seen on...
I forgot to write about that. I completely agree. I've read stories about people who work in gun stores and have to deny selling a gun because the person is obviously depressed (can be seen on customer's face). This will definitely increase suicides by gunshot. On the other hand, the situations I heard of were for customers buying a gun, not just the ammo. How many people would own a gun without any ammo?
When my dad was suicidal it was much easier to just hide the ammo from him than hide the ammo and the guns. Guns are heavy and hunting rifles can be really tough to hide. Ammo is much easier....
When my dad was suicidal it was much easier to just hide the ammo from him than hide the ammo and the guns. Guns are heavy and hunting rifles can be really tough to hide. Ammo is much easier.
Anecdotally I know I'm not the only person who has ever hidden ammo from a loved one in crisis, but I'll admit not knowing what those numbers are.
It’s reasonably common if it’s a family heirloom piece that they don’t intend to shoot with. Often those tend to require less-common calibers of ammunition, which these vending machines wouldn’t have.
It’s reasonably common if it’s a family heirloom piece that they don’t intend to shoot with. Often those tend to require less-common calibers of ammunition, which these vending machines wouldn’t have.
They're either legal products, or they're not. If they're legal, and any applicable laws concerning their sale and transfer are being followed, what is the objection? The only obvious objection...
The fact that they sold guns and ammo at Wal-Mart was already bonkers.
They're either legal products, or they're not. If they're legal, and any applicable laws concerning their sale and transfer are being followed, what is the objection?
The only obvious objection would be "weapons should be illegal." There, the 2nd Amendment disagrees with such an objection. So do a lot of law abiding citizens across the country.
A country, I'll remind, that -- no hyperbole -- is on the verge of civil war. If the Democrats' fucking up of everything they're supposed to be doing as "our protectors against the scourge of evil conservatives" continues all the way through the election, and Trump and his Project 2025 adherents assume power ... the 2nd Amendment is going to come into play as exactly what it was designed as.
The final option against a tyrannical and oppressive government.
And before anyone wants to be all high and mighty about "the unmatched US military slaughtering any opposition," first I would direct that person to a brief examination of places like Afghanistan (amongst others). Where citizenry that lacked $800 Billion defense budgets successfully fought back against the vaunted US Military for years. Years where the military wanted total physical control, but couldn't achieve it.
Resistance movements throughout history are usually outgunned and overmatched. But, somehow, they don't all fail. Some of them succeed, and change occurs. Guess it's a question up for debate should it come to revolution after all.
And second, the military isn't a monolith. Just because the political offices are usurped by regressive authoritarian dictators eager to arrest and execute anyone they decide isn't on their side has no bearing on each and every soldier, sailor, and marine. All of whom are individuals, not robots. Even the 18yro ones.
Some of them won't be on board with supporting a regressive authoritarian dictatorship. Some of them will be officers, or senior NCOs; leaders amongst their fellow military members. Some of the units won't obey orders to fire into US crowds, to bomb US cities, to arrest US citizens.
Civil war is never not messy. Brutal, violent, the stuff of nightmares. But when the choice is submit to a dictator or fight, some people are gonna fight.
Thankfully our Founders, who'd just gotten done revolting against another oppressive government, realized creating a society where citizens are treated like helpless sheep existing only to be culled wasn't a great idea. They tried to make some provisions that enabled the new nation's citizens to have options should another oppressive government arise.
That's straight up a false dichotomy. There's most definitely a step between unrestricted legality and hardline illegal. In fact, lots of countries have their weapon legality in between. You can...
That's straight up a false dichotomy. There's most definitely a step between unrestricted legality and hardline illegal.
In fact, lots of countries have their weapon legality in between. You can get them, but there's rules to getting them.
Right, I mean I can't buy (effective) cold medicine without talking to a pharmacist because I might make a drug chemically similar to another of my medications with it. And I can't buy sparklers...
Right, I mean I can't buy (effective) cold medicine without talking to a pharmacist because I might make a drug chemically similar to another of my medications with it. And I can't buy sparklers at Dollar General at the self checkout. So it's clearly reasonable to restrict products.
But sure an automated ammo dispenser sounds delightful. For the upcoming civil war or whatever, as if the military couldn't just drone strike the grocery store.
Suicides will almost certainly increase, as reducing the barriers between them and the means of death just speeds death along.
My opinion that I'd invoke if I were ever on a jury is that those specific examples are not reasonable. It's societal paranoia.
Right, I mean I can't buy (effective) cold medicine without talking to a pharmacist because I might make a drug chemically similar to another of my medications with it. And I can't buy sparklers at Dollar General at the self checkout. So it's clearly reasonable to restrict products.
My opinion that I'd invoke if I were ever on a jury is that those specific examples are not reasonable. It's societal paranoia.
Cool cool cool but it's the current law and all, til we change that, I'm going to fall down on the side of no ammo vending machines. I'm going to fall down on that side after we change it too.
Cool cool cool but it's the current law and all, til we change that, I'm going to fall down on the side of no ammo vending machines.
I'm going to fall down on that side after we change it too.
Since this is in Texas, I’ll direct you to their laws on when and where you’re allowed to buy alcohol: https://www.tabc.texas.gov/faqs/ Lets also throw in their regulations on when, where, and how...
Since this is in Texas, I’ll direct you to their laws on when and where you’re allowed to buy alcohol: https://www.tabc.texas.gov/faqs/
Lets also throw in their regulations on when, where, and how you can vote for good measure because it’s also a right guaranteed by the constitution: https://guides.sll.texas.gov/voting-in-texas
There are many ways a product (or right) can be limited, even if legal.
There's a third option besides legal (and for sale at WalMart) and illegal, and that's where I land. They should be legal, they should also be much harder to get. I favor the New Zealand model,...
There's a third option besides legal (and for sale at WalMart) and illegal, and that's where I land. They should be legal, they should also be much harder to get. I favor the New Zealand model, personally. I also think the people selling them should be trained in proper care and handling of firearms, as well as at least some training in psychology. They should be trained not to sell firearms to someone exhibiting signs of emotional distress. They should not be the only barrier preventing someone with dangerous intentions or an unstable mental state from getting a gun, but they should be a barrier.
As for the rest of your comment, I'm glad I left the US before it descended into civil war in any case. I only hope I can convince my family to leave as well.
I'm in a similar boat, it almost seems more secure than walking up to a counter operated by a person who doesn't really feel like checking IDs today. The cold, logical robot doesn't decide "that's...
I'm in a similar boat, it almost seems more secure than walking up to a counter operated by a person who doesn't really feel like checking IDs today. The cold, logical robot doesn't decide "that's a good kid who usually buys ammo with their parent, it's not an issue to sell it to them by themselves".
I personally don't care for the concept of ammunition being easy to acquire but this could at least make it harder to acquire illegally if done correctly.
You've mentioned Fallout, but the first thing I thought of was BioShock, with the Ammo Bandito vending machines. Better armed employees? The almost comical scenario I have in mind is someone...
You've mentioned Fallout, but the first thing I thought of was BioShock, with the Ammo Bandito vending machines.
The issue I do see is: how secure is it? Can someone break into it and steal ammo? Is it in a secure location in a store?
Better armed employees? The almost comical scenario I have in mind is someone trying to rob a gun store, which is what these establishments essentially are now.
What problem do people have that these actually solve? With a regular vending machine, the "problem" is that I'm out and about when suddenly, I'm thirsty or hungry. This happens all the time. A...
What problem do people have that these actually solve? With a regular vending machine, the "problem" is that I'm out and about when suddenly, I'm thirsty or hungry. This happens all the time. A vending machine provides a fast, convenient solution to that. What kind of person is out and about and suddenly needs bullets for something, on a regular basis? In my mind, the same kind of paranoid weirdo who walks around with a damn gun in their pocket for some reason.
If I saw these popping up where I live, I would start to feel a lot less comfortable about the random strangers around me. Guns are a liability, not a safety net like some people think. More people walking around with them instead of leaving them locked up in a gun safe at home is spooky to say the least.
I find the concept pretty uncomfortable, as a reflection of US gun issues as a whole and for some of the practical reasons people have mentioned here, but putting that aside and treating is as...
I find the concept pretty uncomfortable, as a reflection of US gun issues as a whole and for some of the practical reasons people have mentioned here, but putting that aside and treating is as more abstract I can see a reasonable case for the why.
I’d imagine it’s solving a problem for the vendor more than the customer: the product can’t just go on the normal shelves, and there are presumably specialist supply chains to deal with too, so wrapping it in a vending machine makes it viable to serve a lot more locations where it wouldn’t be reasonable to have dedicated kiosks and staff. Best (and IMO fairly realistic) case, it’s about capturing planned purchases from customers who otherwise would’ve needed to drive somewhere else and now don’t have to.
But yeah, if ever there were a product class where tighter regulation could justify reduced convenience…
Might make sense in a store near an outdoor range? You go through a surprising amount of ammo at a range. Many people will go shooting recreationally spur of the moment. It’s almost the same as...
Might make sense in a store near an outdoor range? You go through a surprising amount of ammo at a range. Many people will go shooting recreationally spur of the moment. It’s almost the same as deciding on a Thursday you want to fish on Saturday.
Most indoor ranges sell ammo on site, outdoor can vary.
Many ranges near me are a five minute drive down a gravel road in a forest, you shoot into a big pile of dirt from a wooden shelter that was built 20 years ago. I assume this experience isn't...
Many ranges near me are a five minute drive down a gravel road in a forest, you shoot into a big pile of dirt from a wooden shelter that was built 20 years ago. I assume this experience isn't unique, but maybe it is.
A company has installed computerized vending machines to sell ammunition in grocery stores in Alabama, Oklahoma and Texas, allowing patrons to pick up bullets along with a gallon of milk.
“People I think got shocked when they thought about the idea of selling ammo at a grocery store,” Magers said. “But as we explained, how is that any different than Walmart?”
American Rounds said their machines use an identification scanner and facial recognition software to verify the purchaser’s age and are as “quick and easy” to use as a computer tablet. But advocates worry that selling bullets out of vending machines will lead to more shootings in the U.S., where gun violence killed at least 33 people on Independence Day alone.
“Innovations that make ammunition sales more secure via facial recognition, age verification, and the tracking of serial sales are promising safety measures that belong in gun stores, not in the place where you buy your kids milk,” said Nick Suplina, senior vice president for law and policy at Everytown for Gun Safety.
The machine works by requiring a customer to scan their driver’s license to validate that they are age 21 or older. The scan also checks that it is a valid license, he said. That is followed by a facial recognition scan to verify “you are who you are saying you are as a consumer,” he said.
Vending machines for bullets or other age-restricted materials is not an entirely new idea. Companies have developed similar technology to sell alcoholic beverages. A company has marketed automated kiosks to sell cannabis products in dispensaries in states where marijuana is legal.
Made me think of near-future dystopia literature. Ready Player One comes to mind, the scene where the main character purchases body armor, Glock pistol, and ammo from a vending machine. Like a...
Made me think of near-future dystopia literature.
Ready Player One comes to mind, the scene where the main character purchases body armor, Glock pistol, and ammo from a vending machine. Like a fast food combo meal of a horrible future.
In my personal opinion, it does sound crazy at first. As people I play board games with mentioned, it sounds like Fallout minus the 50s aesthetic and bottle caps as currency. On the other hand, grocery stores (namely Walmart) already do sell guns and ammo, so it isn't actually that new of a concept. I think the aspect of it being in a vending machine is what surprises people. The U.S. is not like Japan where they have vending machines for anything and everything.
This also will verify a customer's identity with numerous methods, so it seems secure in that sense. I don't see a 16 year old successfully buying something from one of these without assistance from someone else. Considering the precautions, I honestly don't think it'll be that big of an issue. The issue I do see is: how secure is it? Can someone break into it and steal ammo? Is it in a secure location in a store?
The fact that they sold guns and ammo at Wal-Mart was already bonkers. The fact that this is only a small step past that means that it is still bonkers. What is the actual benefit here?
I believe the aspect of it being a vending machine makes the situation more dangerous to the people who are already the most at risk of dying by gun violence - the people holding the guns. If you're experiencing suicidal ideation and you have a gun, but no ammo, now you don't even have to talk to a person to have all the supplies you need to kill yourself. You don't have to pretend that you want the ammo for something else, or make small talk. You just head on down to the grocery store and pick some up from the vending machine.
I'm honestly not sure what impact this will have on murders using guns. I don't think getting the ammo is a significant hurdle there at all. I do doubt that it will have any impact on accidental gun fatalities. In those cases the storage of the gun is more important than how it was obtained. But I would bet serious money that it's going to increase the rate of suicides using guns.
I forgot to write about that. I completely agree. I've read stories about people who work in gun stores and have to deny selling a gun because the person is obviously depressed (can be seen on customer's face). This will definitely increase suicides by gunshot. On the other hand, the situations I heard of were for customers buying a gun, not just the ammo. How many people would own a gun without any ammo?
When my dad was suicidal it was much easier to just hide the ammo from him than hide the ammo and the guns. Guns are heavy and hunting rifles can be really tough to hide. Ammo is much easier.
Anecdotally I know I'm not the only person who has ever hidden ammo from a loved one in crisis, but I'll admit not knowing what those numbers are.
It’s reasonably common if it’s a family heirloom piece that they don’t intend to shoot with. Often those tend to require less-common calibers of ammunition, which these vending machines wouldn’t have.
Interesting. I never knew about that.
They're either legal products, or they're not. If they're legal, and any applicable laws concerning their sale and transfer are being followed, what is the objection?
The only obvious objection would be "weapons should be illegal." There, the 2nd Amendment disagrees with such an objection. So do a lot of law abiding citizens across the country.
A country, I'll remind, that -- no hyperbole -- is on the verge of civil war. If the Democrats' fucking up of everything they're supposed to be doing as "our protectors against the scourge of evil conservatives" continues all the way through the election, and Trump and his Project 2025 adherents assume power ... the 2nd Amendment is going to come into play as exactly what it was designed as.
The final option against a tyrannical and oppressive government.
And before anyone wants to be all high and mighty about "the unmatched US military slaughtering any opposition," first I would direct that person to a brief examination of places like Afghanistan (amongst others). Where citizenry that lacked $800 Billion defense budgets successfully fought back against the vaunted US Military for years. Years where the military wanted total physical control, but couldn't achieve it.
Resistance movements throughout history are usually outgunned and overmatched. But, somehow, they don't all fail. Some of them succeed, and change occurs. Guess it's a question up for debate should it come to revolution after all.
And second, the military isn't a monolith. Just because the political offices are usurped by regressive authoritarian dictators eager to arrest and execute anyone they decide isn't on their side has no bearing on each and every soldier, sailor, and marine. All of whom are individuals, not robots. Even the 18yro ones.
Some of them won't be on board with supporting a regressive authoritarian dictatorship. Some of them will be officers, or senior NCOs; leaders amongst their fellow military members. Some of the units won't obey orders to fire into US crowds, to bomb US cities, to arrest US citizens.
Civil war is never not messy. Brutal, violent, the stuff of nightmares. But when the choice is submit to a dictator or fight, some people are gonna fight.
Thankfully our Founders, who'd just gotten done revolting against another oppressive government, realized creating a society where citizens are treated like helpless sheep existing only to be culled wasn't a great idea. They tried to make some provisions that enabled the new nation's citizens to have options should another oppressive government arise.
Like we're far too close to having happen now.
That's straight up a false dichotomy. There's most definitely a step between unrestricted legality and hardline illegal.
In fact, lots of countries have their weapon legality in between. You can get them, but there's rules to getting them.
Right, I mean I can't buy (effective) cold medicine without talking to a pharmacist because I might make a drug chemically similar to another of my medications with it. And I can't buy sparklers at Dollar General at the self checkout. So it's clearly reasonable to restrict products.
But sure an automated ammo dispenser sounds delightful. For the upcoming civil war or whatever, as if the military couldn't just drone strike the grocery store.
Suicides will almost certainly increase, as reducing the barriers between them and the means of death just speeds death along.
My opinion that I'd invoke if I were ever on a jury is that those specific examples are not reasonable. It's societal paranoia.
Cool cool cool but it's the current law and all, til we change that, I'm going to fall down on the side of no ammo vending machines.
I'm going to fall down on that side after we change it too.
Since this is in Texas, I’ll direct you to their laws on when and where you’re allowed to buy alcohol: https://www.tabc.texas.gov/faqs/
Lets also throw in their regulations on when, where, and how you can vote for good measure because it’s also a right guaranteed by the constitution: https://guides.sll.texas.gov/voting-in-texas
There are many ways a product (or right) can be limited, even if legal.
There's a third option besides legal (and for sale at WalMart) and illegal, and that's where I land. They should be legal, they should also be much harder to get. I favor the New Zealand model, personally. I also think the people selling them should be trained in proper care and handling of firearms, as well as at least some training in psychology. They should be trained not to sell firearms to someone exhibiting signs of emotional distress. They should not be the only barrier preventing someone with dangerous intentions or an unstable mental state from getting a gun, but they should be a barrier.
As for the rest of your comment, I'm glad I left the US before it descended into civil war in any case. I only hope I can convince my family to leave as well.
I'm in a similar boat, it almost seems more secure than walking up to a counter operated by a person who doesn't really feel like checking IDs today. The cold, logical robot doesn't decide "that's a good kid who usually buys ammo with their parent, it's not an issue to sell it to them by themselves".
I personally don't care for the concept of ammunition being easy to acquire but this could at least make it harder to acquire illegally if done correctly.
You've mentioned Fallout, but the first thing I thought of was BioShock, with the Ammo Bandito vending machines.
Better armed employees? The almost comical scenario I have in mind is someone trying to rob a gun store, which is what these establishments essentially are now.
What problem do people have that these actually solve? With a regular vending machine, the "problem" is that I'm out and about when suddenly, I'm thirsty or hungry. This happens all the time. A vending machine provides a fast, convenient solution to that. What kind of person is out and about and suddenly needs bullets for something, on a regular basis? In my mind, the same kind of paranoid weirdo who walks around with a damn gun in their pocket for some reason.
If I saw these popping up where I live, I would start to feel a lot less comfortable about the random strangers around me. Guns are a liability, not a safety net like some people think. More people walking around with them instead of leaving them locked up in a gun safe at home is spooky to say the least.
I find the concept pretty uncomfortable, as a reflection of US gun issues as a whole and for some of the practical reasons people have mentioned here, but putting that aside and treating is as more abstract I can see a reasonable case for the why.
I’d imagine it’s solving a problem for the vendor more than the customer: the product can’t just go on the normal shelves, and there are presumably specialist supply chains to deal with too, so wrapping it in a vending machine makes it viable to serve a lot more locations where it wouldn’t be reasonable to have dedicated kiosks and staff. Best (and IMO fairly realistic) case, it’s about capturing planned purchases from customers who otherwise would’ve needed to drive somewhere else and now don’t have to.
But yeah, if ever there were a product class where tighter regulation could justify reduced convenience…
Might make sense in a store near an outdoor range? You go through a surprising amount of ammo at a range. Many people will go shooting recreationally spur of the moment. It’s almost the same as deciding on a Thursday you want to fish on Saturday.
Most indoor ranges sell ammo on site, outdoor can vary.
It would make sense at the range. Why at the store near the range?
Many outdoor ranges do not have electricity or plumbing.
Ahh. I've only ever been to ranges that had all of those things. They sold other merch, too.
Many ranges near me are a five minute drive down a gravel road in a forest, you shoot into a big pile of dirt from a wooden shelter that was built 20 years ago. I assume this experience isn't unique, but maybe it is.
Straight up cyberpunk level bologna. Gotta chase those profits.
Made me think of near-future dystopia literature.
Ready Player One comes to mind, the scene where the main character purchases body armor, Glock pistol, and ammo from a vending machine. Like a fast food combo meal of a horrible future.
First thing to mind for me was the Borderlands game series.