69 votes

Jeffrey Epstein Commits Suicide at Manhattan Jail

53 comments

  1. [11]
    Bezarius
    Link
    How did they not have him under 24/7 security considering he had already tried to commit suicide since being taken into custody? I'm by no means a conspiracy theorist but come on.

    How did they not have him under 24/7 security considering he had already tried to commit suicide since being taken into custody? I'm by no means a conspiracy theorist but come on.

    27 votes
    1. [8]
      Loire
      Link Parent
      He was on suicide watch ready. That means anything that could feasibily be used to kill himself is taken away. Usually placed in a room with sharp points/edges padded or removed. His clothes would...

      He was on suicide watch ready. That means anything that could feasibily be used to kill himself is taken away. Usually placed in a room with sharp points/edges padded or removed. His clothes would be that easily ripped paper shit you get at the doctors. Typically under some sort of surveillance, either constant or frequent.

      Him having commit suicide is frankly an unbelievable scenario, and that's coming from someone who typically mocks conspiracy theorists.

      26 votes
      1. [6]
        alyaza
        Link Parent
        people are really overestimating the competence and purity of the prison system in this country here, lol. it's possible epstein was murdered or coerced into suicide or something, but it's also...

        people are really overestimating the competence and purity of the prison system in this country here, lol. it's possible epstein was murdered or coerced into suicide or something, but it's also just as likely--probably moreso--that someone simply fucked up along the way here as is often the case, or he just had someone look the other way while he did it. there are plenty of people who are just dumb or corrupt in the prison system, and it would hardly be the first time something of this nature happens under the watch of people who should have easily prevented it.

        20 votes
        1. [5]
          Loire
          Link Parent
          Considering what was riding on the line here, the level of power implicated in this investigation, you'll forgive people for assuming it was purposeful. Whether or not the investigation proceeds...

          Considering what was riding on the line here, the level of power implicated in this investigation, you'll forgive people for assuming it was purposeful.

          Whether or not the investigation proceeds and anyone of importance is brought down will really signify whether or not there is a concentrated effort to make the whole affair disappear.

          30 votes
          1. [2]
            Comment deleted by author
            Link Parent
            1. Cananopie
              Link Parent
              At the potential expense of their job... Likely with no compensation

              At the potential expense of their job... Likely with no compensation

              1 vote
          2. [3]
            ascii
            Link Parent
            If it's a simple fuckup, then it's the fuckup of the year. (Not the fuckup of the century, or the fuckup of the decade, I can think of bigger abject failures in those timeframes.) But if it's not...

            If it's a simple fuckup, then it's the fuckup of the year. (Not the fuckup of the century, or the fuckup of the decade, I can think of bigger abject failures in those timeframes.)

            But if it's not a simple fuckup, then it's an obvious conspiracy.

            The real question that follows is not "Who are the conspirators?" because there are dozens of powerful men with strong incentive to keep him quiet.

            Instead the question is "Why did they make it so obvious?"

            When Russians use polonium or novichok, they want it known that they did it while maintaining official deniability.

            If Epstein was murdered, the conspirators could have poisoned him or induced cardiac arrest to make it look like a natural cause.

            Instead, they intentionally used an implausible method to cast suspicion in one particular direction.

            3 votes
            1. moocow1452
              Link Parent
              Maybe I'm new at this whole conspiracy thing, but Occam's Razor would imply that he was put on suicide watch, then taken off or neglected out of apathy long enough for him to string something...

              Maybe I'm new at this whole conspiracy thing, but Occam's Razor would imply that he was put on suicide watch, then taken off or neglected out of apathy long enough for him to string something together. A prison being ran poorly isn't exactly a high burden of proof, and if he was alone long enough for secret cabals to murder him, suicide isn't exactly out of the question either.

              10 votes
            2. Diet_Coke
              Link Parent
              For the same reasons the Russians use radioactive isotopes or neocons explode your plane - and also probably the same reason they fly around the world raping little kids. They get off on not...

              Instead the question is "Why did they make it so obvious?"

              For the same reasons the Russians use radioactive isotopes or neocons explode your plane - and also probably the same reason they fly around the world raping little kids. They get off on not following the same rules as the rest of us, the peasants. They like to show that they're capable of these things. And it is a message to anyone else who may be compromised or thinking of cooperating.

              3 votes
      2. Archimedes
        Link Parent
        He was taken off of suicide watch before his demise. Whoever made that decision should one of the first to be investigated.

        He was taken off of suicide watch before his demise. Whoever made that decision should one of the first to be investigated.

    2. [2]
      Meh
      Link Parent
      Seriously. Looking into the circumstances around his removal from suicide watch is an easy first lead to follow.

      Seriously. Looking into the circumstances around his removal from suicide watch is an easy first lead to follow.

      3 votes
      1. CashewGuy
        Link Parent
        Most places will only keep someone on suicide watch if there is a clinical reason to do so. I can't really speak for prisons, but I can speak for acute psychiatric hospitals. 1:1s (a much higher...

        Most places will only keep someone on suicide watch if there is a clinical reason to do so. I can't really speak for prisons, but I can speak for acute psychiatric hospitals. 1:1s (a much higher form of suicide watch than what prisons likely have), usually only last 1-3 days.

        I would anticipate that a prison is more likely following 10-15 minute observation rounds, which is kind of the bare minimum (it was, actually, the bare minimum when I worked in high-acuity psych inpatient treatment).

        8 votes
  2. [2]
    Deimos
    Link
    Jesus, I can't believe this actually happened. I hope they're trying to lock Ghislaine Maxwell down, wherever she is. "Fun" side note, I just went to search for her name to make sure I was...

    Jesus, I can't believe this actually happened. I hope they're trying to lock Ghislaine Maxwell down, wherever she is.

    "Fun" side note, I just went to search for her name to make sure I was spelling it right, and the top suggestion in DuckDuckGo as soon as I got to "ghis" was "ghislaine maxwell found unresponsive". It's right near the top in Google too. Search engines already helping spread fake news.

    Seth Abramson tweeted some interesting stuff that he just wants out there now: https://twitter.com/SethAbramson/status/1160190380056485889

    20 votes
    1. bleemed
      Link Parent
      Didn't know about MBS. Wow.

      Didn't know about MBS. Wow.

      3 votes
  3. [19]
    vakieh
    Link
    This is going to dwarf any conspiracy theory going back to 9/11, and could match both it and Kennedy. You will be hearing this event mentioned until the day you die. The Democrat candidates should...

    This is going to dwarf any conspiracy theory going back to 9/11, and could match both it and Kennedy. You will be hearing this event mentioned until the day you die.

    The Democrat candidates should be campaigning on having a Mueller-scale investigation into how this happened and who enabled it.

    15 votes
    1. [5]
      JoylessAubergine
      Link Parent
      For a conspiracy to gain traction there has to be doubt. This is going to be used as a point of evidence for elite paedophile rings but in and off itself it's not really a conspiracy. I can't...

      For a conspiracy to gain traction there has to be doubt. This is going to be used as a point of evidence for elite paedophile rings but in and off itself it's not really a conspiracy. I can't imagine anyone doubts that he was "suicided" or was pressured into suicide in some manner.

      The Democrat candidates should be campaigning on having a Mueller-scale investigation into how this happened and who enabled it.

      This is as much a warning as a silencing. Other than edge candidates anyone who thinks they have a chance at a political career isn't going to touch this with a barge pole.

      14 votes
      1. ascii
        Link Parent
        When the killer is unknown, the first questions are about means, motive and opportunity. There are many extraordinarily powerful men with the motive, and men that powerful can acquire the means...

        When the killer is unknown, the first questions are about means, motive and opportunity.

        There are many extraordinarily powerful men with the motive, and men that powerful can acquire the means and opportunity without casting suspicion on themselves.

        So the next question is "Qui bono?" or "Who benefits?"

        Assassins this powerful could have made the cause of death look natural. Instead they chose a method that would instantly trigger one of the oldest and most widely known conspiracy theories in the US.

        They made it blatantly obvious for a reason.

        4 votes
      2. [3]
        vakieh
        Link Parent
        We are seeing doubt right now. The right says it was the left, the left says it was the right, there's another group that says it was on his own and the prison system is just that retarded, and a...

        We are seeing doubt right now. The right says it was the left, the left says it was the right, there's another group that says it was on his own and the prison system is just that retarded, and a bunch of people each pointing at Bilderberg or Rothschild or the British Royals or probably lizard men etc etc.

        1. [2]
          Luna
          Link Parent
          I don't think it's much of a stretch to believe he actually did commit suicide. He was removed from suicide watch, and knowing how clever suicidal people can get (my dad was a nurse at a...

          I don't think it's much of a stretch to believe he actually did commit suicide. He was removed from suicide watch, and knowing how clever suicidal people can get (my dad was a nurse at a psychiatric hospital, and he had plenty of stories about this), it is easy to believe Epstein could have killed himself between the half-hour rounds the guards made for non-suicide watch people.

          That being said, it seems obvious that he should have remained on suicide watch. And I hope this spurs mental health prison reforms, as being removed from suicide watch also removes you from most psychiatric care, even though you might not be very well yet.

          4 votes
          1. vakieh
            Link Parent
            This is the part people are interested in. No need to murder someone when you can just facilitate them killing themselves.

            He was removed from suicide watch

            This is the part people are interested in. No need to murder someone when you can just facilitate them killing themselves.

            2 votes
    2. [13]
      flip
      Link Parent
      Also, worth pointing out that I highly doubt that he only had names on the GOP side, so maybe, just maybe, the Democrats shouldn't be raising a fuss about this unless they are comfortable having...

      Also, worth pointing out that I highly doubt that he only had names on the GOP side, so maybe, just maybe, the Democrats shouldn't be raising a fuss about this unless they are comfortable having some of their side exposed.

      I believe this is one of those issues where the USA population needs to clamour for this investigation, not wait for the politicians to act.

      4 votes
      1. [6]
        CALICO
        Link Parent
        Bill Clinton is on the Lolita Express flight lists. The thing is historically speaking, the Democrats are generally quick to disown any of the party involved, implicated, or alleged of abuse....

        Democrats shouldn't be raising a fuss about this unless they are comfortable having some of their side exposed.

        Bill Clinton is on the Lolita Express flight lists.
        The thing is historically speaking, the Democrats are generally quick to disown any of the party involved, implicated, or alleged of abuse. Franken is a good example; the man was a great Senator and the party dropped him without a second thought.

        In an Epstein context, I've yet to see anyone say Clinton shouldn't go fuck himself. The abuse and rape of children should not be a partisan matter.

        14 votes
        1. [3]
          hungariantoast
          Link Parent
          @bleemed Okay, let's back up a second. My understanding of this situation is that the "Lolita Express" carried dozens (hundreds?) of people to several locations for several reasons, as would be...

          @bleemed

          Okay, let's back up a second.

          My understanding of this situation is that the "Lolita Express" carried dozens (hundreds?) of people to several locations for several reasons, as would be expected of a personal aircraft. It wasn't just used exclusively for taking people to some island for sex parties.

          The list of people who have been on this plane is... extensive, but the destinations of those passengers are largely mundane and normal.

          There is no record of Bill Clinton taking the "Lolita Express" to Epstein's island.

          That's my understanding of the facts so far. Am I wrong in any of this? I totally could be, I'm not very caught up on this entire situation.

          If I have my facts in order though, it seems to me that there's very little legitimate evidence tying Bill Clinton to some secret island pedophile ring other than that he used the "Lolita Express" to go to a destination that wasn't Epstein's island and we shouldn't be jumping to these kinds of conclusions.

          Again, maybe I'm wrong. If the facts are different, I'd love to know about it.

          15 votes
          1. [2]
            CALICO
            Link Parent
            I couldn't tell you where all Clinton was flown to off the top of my head. However, the assumption that rape only occurred on this island is a mistaken one. By my recollection, there are...

            I couldn't tell you where all Clinton was flown to off the top of my head. However, the assumption that rape only occurred on this island is a mistaken one. By my recollection, there are allegations of such events occuring at both Epstein's Florida and Manhattan residences. Unsure about the New Mexico one.

            The point is though, that Epstein being waist deep in underage sex trafficking for so long, and affiliated with so many of the famous, wealthy, and powerful for so long, that I think it's appropriate to doubt the virtues of any individual linked to Epstein and especially those having flown on his plane.

            By the clandestine nature of the crimes, there's not going to be evidence just lying around for us to google confirming if any given individual is guilty or not. Innocent until proven guilty, is the ethos of the justice system. I am not the justice system. I am under no such obligation to presume innocence. Singular meetings or tangential relationships to Epstein are easy to live with, but anyone with a long relationship and sometimes dozens of flights is dirty by association in my mind.

            If it turns out that Epstein was, in fact, collecting blackmail on people and this investigation (assuming it isn't corrupted) proves loads of people to be guilty, then any people with no blackmail materials will be easier to forgive for me. But as of right now, I'm really not willing to apply good will to anyone involved with this horror show.

            9 votes
            1. BuckeyeSundae
              Link Parent
              I’m a fan of the rule of law, which insists that “guilt by association” isn’t a thing, though it very much is enough to question someone’s judgment. With Bill, I think the public record was...

              I’m a fan of the rule of law, which insists that “guilt by association” isn’t a thing, though it very much is enough to question someone’s judgment. With Bill, I think the public record was already clear that his judge of character is... um, not always great.

              6 votes
        2. flip
          Link Parent
          No, it shouldn't. Everyone involved should burn. No exceptions. I'm just saying that framing this as a Dems vs. GOP is a bit simplistic, because both sides have their skeletons on this one. But...

          No, it shouldn't. Everyone involved should burn. No exceptions.

          I'm just saying that framing this as a Dems vs. GOP is a bit simplistic, because both sides have their skeletons on this one.

          But all of them should come out and the involved parties should pay the price. And then hopefully go to whatever hell they believe in.

          5 votes
        3. bleemed
          Link Parent
          I didn't understand the pizzagate stuff about Hillary, but fuck Bill.

          I didn't understand the pizzagate stuff about Hillary, but fuck Bill.

          2 votes
      2. [2]
        NaraVara
        Link Parent
        They ought to get comfortable with it. If Al Franken had to get tossed out, everyone hangs. But I think this is one of those deals like, if you owe a little money the bank owns you and if you owe...

        so maybe, just maybe, the Democrats shouldn't be raising a fuss about this unless they are comfortable having some of their side exposed.

        They ought to get comfortable with it. If Al Franken had to get tossed out, everyone hangs.

        But I think this is one of those deals like, if you owe a little money the bank owns you and if you owe a lot of money you own the bank.

        12 votes
        1. flip
          Link Parent
          I actually had that said to me by a client once. I asked why he only had dealings with one bank here (he had the largest total debt with said bank) and he told me that when he owned the bank a...

          I actually had that said to me by a client once. I asked why he only had dealings with one bank here (he had the largest total debt with said bank) and he told me that when he owned the bank a million, it was his problem. Now that he owned a few hundred million, it was the bank's problem.

          And I'm for everyone in this thing burning down. The little I have read about the case (I'm trying to avoid the details) are bad enough.

          2 votes
      3. [4]
        Meh
        Link Parent
        Dude, we are talking about pedophiles. No one should care what side of the aisle they fall on. If you engage in pedophilia you deserve to be in jail.

        Dude, we are talking about pedophiles. No one should care what side of the aisle they fall on. If you engage in pedophilia you deserve to be in jail.

        4 votes
        1. [2]
          Loire
          Link Parent
          Which everyone on the left side of the spectrum seems to agree with you on. By and large everyone is on board with Bill Clinton getting whats coming to him. But should you point on that the...

          Which everyone on the left side of the spectrum seems to agree with you on. By and large everyone is on board with Bill Clinton getting whats coming to him.

          But should you point on that the current President is on the same flight lists, gave the following quote:

          “I’ve known Jeff for fifteen years. Terrific guy. He’s a lot of fun to be with. It is even said that he likes beautiful women as much as I do, and many of them are on the younger side. No doubt about it — Jeffrey enjoys his social life.”

          The numerous photos of Trump enjoying himself with Epstein and the right suddenly acts like a android in Westworld.

          There is no question of whether Democrats will turn out any of their own pedophiles. There is plenty of question of whether the right will do the same.

          12 votes
          1. Meh
            Link Parent
            Yes I'm hoping an independent investigation brings everyone to justice, but we all know that's just a pipe dream. The right will protect their own with everything they have.

            Yes I'm hoping an independent investigation brings everyone to justice, but we all know that's just a pipe dream. The right will protect their own with everything they have.

            7 votes
        2. flip
          Link Parent
          Oh, I'm totally on board with this view, probably could take it a bit further. I'm just saying that framing this as a "Dems should make a fuss because the GOP won't" is a bit simplistic, because...

          Oh, I'm totally on board with this view, probably could take it a bit further. I'm just saying that framing this as a "Dems should make a fuss because the GOP won't" is a bit simplistic, because both parties probably have more than a few people who are glad he's dead.

          And I don't think they should get off.

          2 votes
  4. alyaza
    Link
    so the one person who actually deserves to get put through hell by our fucking garbage justice system just gets to basically take his secrets to the grave like that? and we're still not going to...

    so the one person who actually deserves to get put through hell by our fucking garbage justice system just gets to basically take his secrets to the grave like that? and we're still not going to glass this justice system and replace it with something that actually works like it's supposed to and delivers justice to people in cases like this while ensuring people who have the ability to change can do so?

    12 votes
  5. [4]
    jgb
    Link
    Surely this is a case of corruption. I suppose he had more than enough money to pay the guards to look the other way and give him back his shoelaces...

    Surely this is a case of corruption. I suppose he had more than enough money to pay the guards to look the other way and give him back his shoelaces...

    10 votes
    1. [3]
      Amarok
      Link Parent
      It's also possible someone didn't want him talking, and was more than happy to facilitate his suicide. Given his history, it seems likely he had dirt on some powerful people.

      It's also possible someone didn't want him talking, and was more than happy to facilitate his suicide. Given his history, it seems likely he had dirt on some powerful people.

      18 votes
      1. jgb
        Link Parent
        Thinking about it more, that does seem perhaps more likely. Nefarious, either way.

        Thinking about it more, that does seem perhaps more likely. Nefarious, either way.

  6. CALICO
    (edited )
    Link
    For those who can't access the article, this is the only relevant part to the title: The rest is personal context, and mention of that release of documents from yesterday. Whether this is suicide...

    For those who can't access the article, this is the only relevant part to the title:

    It was not immediately clear on Saturday whether the authorities had put in additional safeguards to watch him after the incident last month.

    The rest is personal context, and mention of that release of documents from yesterday.


    Whether this is suicide or 'suicide', neither would be of any surprise. Which makes the lack of 24/7 surveillance a true sin on justice. This was not only the death of a man, but the death of accountability for the actions of himself and those he enabled. I'd wager a number of powerful people are feeling more than a little relaxed at this news, and the world is all the worse for this to happen before testimony and trial.

    If the blackmail theory turns out to be true, there may yet be justice. By my understanding, investigators have a large number of documents seized from his property. But how much he recorded and how much was kept only in his head is something we will never be able to know.

    10 votes
  7. [3]
    alyaza
    (edited )
    Link
    turns out he wasn't actually on suicide watch when he attempted. that'll do it, yeah.

    turns out he wasn't actually on suicide watch when he attempted. that'll do it, yeah.

    9 votes
    1. [2]
      Loire
      Link Parent
      Tweet no longer exists Try this one

      Tweet no longer exists

      Try this one

      3 votes
      1. alyaza
        Link Parent
        oh, that's annoying. here's tom winter of NBC's tweet on the same thing. NBC hasn't seemingly retracted their reporting here so i'm not sure what their reason for deleting that tweet would be....

        oh, that's annoying. here's tom winter of NBC's tweet on the same thing. NBC hasn't seemingly retracted their reporting here so i'm not sure what their reason for deleting that tweet would be.

        EDIT: oh, probably a duplicate. i have fixed their link accordingly.

        3 votes
  8. alyaza
    Link
    the already bountiful conspiracy theories surrounding epstein are about to get a nice booster from the president, who just retweeted something about bill clinton's ties to him. something something...

    the already bountiful conspiracy theories surrounding epstein are about to get a nice booster from the president, who just retweeted something about bill clinton's ties to him. something something may you live in interesting times, i suppose.

    4 votes
  9. Whom
    Link
    Jeffrey Epstein: How conspiracy theories spread after financier's death Thought I'd include this instead of posting separately. It's interesting seeing how this has developed into popular...

    Jeffrey Epstein: How conspiracy theories spread after financier's death

    Thought I'd include this instead of posting separately. It's interesting seeing how this has developed into popular conspiracy theories from all sides. It's an impressive clusterfuck, really.

    3 votes
  10. [2]
    Arshan
    Link
    Well, that piece of shit got of easy; I can't say I am surprised as HE ALREADY TRIED TO KILL HIMSELF. I would have thought that when someone tries to commit suicide, you put them on suicide watch....

    Well, that piece of shit got of easy; I can't say I am surprised as HE ALREADY TRIED TO KILL HIMSELF. I would have thought that when someone tries to commit suicide, you put them on suicide watch. I wonder if we will ever find out for sure if Trump and /or Bill Clinton were clients of his trafficking ring.

    2 votes
    1. SuperGracchiBros
      Link Parent
      I doubt it. If he did kill himself and wasn't murdered, I'm sure he was strongly encouraged to do it by the very powerful families he had dirt on. These people are going to keep it buried for as...

      I doubt it. If he did kill himself and wasn't murdered, I'm sure he was strongly encouraged to do it by the very powerful families he had dirt on. These people are going to keep it buried for as long as they can.

  11. [6]
    mrbig
    Link
    I may be the only person to express this here, but: I do not feel joy with news of any act of suicide.

    I may be the only person to express this here, but: I do not feel joy with news of any act of suicide.

    2 votes
    1. [5]
      JXM
      Link Parent
      Ideally, he would rot in a jail cell for 30 years. I’m not happy he killed himself, I’m sad his victims won’t get to see justice served.

      Ideally, he would rot in a jail cell for 30 years. I’m not happy he killed himself, I’m sad his victims won’t get to see justice served.

      2 votes
      1. [4]
        mrbig
        Link Parent
        I understand that sentiment. But, in cases like this, the line between justice and revenge gets blurred very easily. The former I support, the later I abhor.

        I understand that sentiment. But, in cases like this, the line between justice and revenge gets blurred very easily. The former I support, the later I abhor.

        1 vote
        1. Greg
          Link Parent
          I think that's an interesting conversation to have if he were just sitting in a cell after the conclusion of the court case, but the fact that he has likely taken key information about other...

          I think that's an interesting conversation to have if he were just sitting in a cell after the conclusion of the court case, but the fact that he has likely taken key information about other perpetrators to his grave makes it an unequivocal issue of justice as I see it.

          2 votes
        2. [2]
          JXM
          Link Parent
          Justice is messy. It's not perfect and for some cases, the person who perpetrated the crimes is too powerful and can get out of any meaningful punishment. So what are we supposed to do then?

          Justice is messy. It's not perfect and for some cases, the person who perpetrated the crimes is too powerful and can get out of any meaningful punishment. So what are we supposed to do then?

          1. mrbig
            (edited )
            Link Parent
            IDK, but that counter-argument does not seem valid.

            IDK, but that counter-argument does not seem valid.

  12. The_Fad
    Link
    And so, bedraggled and on the cusp of final victory, there arose a great calamity the world over in the form of one large, collective, "GOD. FUCKING. DAMMIT."

    And so, bedraggled and on the cusp of final victory, there arose a great calamity the world over in the form of one large, collective, "GOD. FUCKING. DAMMIT."

    6 votes
  13. onyxleopard
    Link
    This is outrageous!

    This is outrageous!

    2 votes