How did they not have him under 24/7 security considering he had already tried to commit suicide since being taken into custody? I'm by no means a conspiracy theorist but come on.
How did they not have him under 24/7 security considering he had already tried to commit suicide since being taken into custody? I'm by no means a conspiracy theorist but come on.
people are really overestimating the competence and purity of the prison system in this country here, lol. it's possible epstein was murdered or coerced into suicide or something, but it's also...
people are really overestimating the competence and purity of the prison system in this country here, lol. it's possible epstein was murdered or coerced into suicide or something, but it's also just as likely--probably moreso--that someone simply fucked up along the way here as is often the case, or he just had someone look the other way while he did it. there are plenty of people who are just dumb or corrupt in the prison system, and it would hardly be the first time something of this nature happens under the watch of people who should have easily prevented it.
If it's a simple fuckup, then it's the fuckup of the year. (Not the fuckup of the century, or the fuckup of the decade, I can think of bigger abject failures in those timeframes.) But if it's not...
If it's a simple fuckup, then it's the fuckup of the year. (Not the fuckup of the century, or the fuckup of the decade, I can think of bigger abject failures in those timeframes.)
But if it's not a simple fuckup, then it's an obvious conspiracy.
The real question that follows is not "Who are the conspirators?" because there are dozens of powerful men with strong incentive to keep him quiet.
Instead the question is "Why did they make it so obvious?"
When Russians use polonium or novichok, they want it known that they did it while maintaining official deniability.
If Epstein was murdered, the conspirators could have poisoned him or induced cardiac arrest to make it look like a natural cause.
Instead, they intentionally used an implausible method to cast suspicion in one particular direction.
Maybe I'm new at this whole conspiracy thing, but Occam's Razor would imply that he was put on suicide watch, then taken off or neglected out of apathy long enough for him to string something...
Maybe I'm new at this whole conspiracy thing, but Occam's Razor would imply that he was put on suicide watch, then taken off or neglected out of apathy long enough for him to string something together. A prison being ran poorly isn't exactly a high burden of proof, and if he was alone long enough for secret cabals to murder him, suicide isn't exactly out of the question either.
For the same reasons the Russians use radioactive isotopes or neocons explode your plane - and also probably the same reason they fly around the world raping little kids. They get off on not...
Instead the question is "Why did they make it so obvious?"
For the same reasons the Russians use radioactive isotopes or neocons explode your plane - and also probably the same reason they fly around the world raping little kids. They get off on not following the same rules as the rest of us, the peasants. They like to show that they're capable of these things. And it is a message to anyone else who may be compromised or thinking of cooperating.
Most places will only keep someone on suicide watch if there is a clinical reason to do so. I can't really speak for prisons, but I can speak for acute psychiatric hospitals. 1:1s (a much higher...
Exemplary
Most places will only keep someone on suicide watch if there is a clinical reason to do so. I can't really speak for prisons, but I can speak for acute psychiatric hospitals. 1:1s (a much higher form of suicide watch than what prisons likely have), usually only last 1-3 days.
I would anticipate that a prison is more likely following 10-15 minute observation rounds, which is kind of the bare minimum (it was, actually, the bare minimum when I worked in high-acuity psych inpatient treatment).
Jesus, I can't believe this actually happened. I hope they're trying to lock Ghislaine Maxwell down, wherever she is. "Fun" side note, I just went to search for her name to make sure I was...
Jesus, I can't believe this actually happened. I hope they're trying to lock Ghislaine Maxwell down, wherever she is.
"Fun" side note, I just went to search for her name to make sure I was spelling it right, and the top suggestion in DuckDuckGo as soon as I got to "ghis" was "ghislaine maxwell found unresponsive". It's right near the top in Google too. Search engines already helping spread fake news.
This is going to dwarf any conspiracy theory going back to 9/11, and could match both it and Kennedy. You will be hearing this event mentioned until the day you die. The Democrat candidates should...
This is going to dwarf any conspiracy theory going back to 9/11, and could match both it and Kennedy. You will be hearing this event mentioned until the day you die.
The Democrat candidates should be campaigning on having a Mueller-scale investigation into how this happened and who enabled it.
For a conspiracy to gain traction there has to be doubt. This is going to be used as a point of evidence for elite paedophile rings but in and off itself it's not really a conspiracy. I can't...
For a conspiracy to gain traction there has to be doubt. This is going to be used as a point of evidence for elite paedophile rings but in and off itself it's not really a conspiracy. I can't imagine anyone doubts that he was "suicided" or was pressured into suicide in some manner.
The Democrat candidates should be campaigning on having a Mueller-scale investigation into how this happened and who enabled it.
This is as much a warning as a silencing. Other than edge candidates anyone who thinks they have a chance at a political career isn't going to touch this with a barge pole.
When the killer is unknown, the first questions are about means, motive and opportunity. There are many extraordinarily powerful men with the motive, and men that powerful can acquire the means...
When the killer is unknown, the first questions are about means, motive and opportunity.
There are many extraordinarily powerful men with the motive, and men that powerful can acquire the means and opportunity without casting suspicion on themselves.
So the next question is "Qui bono?" or "Who benefits?"
Assassins this powerful could have made the cause of death look natural. Instead they chose a method that would instantly trigger one of the oldest and most widely known conspiracy theories in the US.
We are seeing doubt right now. The right says it was the left, the left says it was the right, there's another group that says it was on his own and the prison system is just that retarded, and a...
We are seeing doubt right now. The right says it was the left, the left says it was the right, there's another group that says it was on his own and the prison system is just that retarded, and a bunch of people each pointing at Bilderberg or Rothschild or the British Royals or probably lizard men etc etc.
I don't think it's much of a stretch to believe he actually did commit suicide. He was removed from suicide watch, and knowing how clever suicidal people can get (my dad was a nurse at a...
I don't think it's much of a stretch to believe he actually did commit suicide. He was removed from suicide watch, and knowing how clever suicidal people can get (my dad was a nurse at a psychiatric hospital, and he had plenty of stories about this), it is easy to believe Epstein could have killed himself between the half-hour rounds the guards made for non-suicide watch people.
That being said, it seems obvious that he should have remained on suicide watch. And I hope this spurs mental health prison reforms, as being removed from suicide watch also removes you from most psychiatric care, even though you might not be very well yet.
Also, worth pointing out that I highly doubt that he only had names on the GOP side, so maybe, just maybe, the Democrats shouldn't be raising a fuss about this unless they are comfortable having...
Also, worth pointing out that I highly doubt that he only had names on the GOP side, so maybe, just maybe, the Democrats shouldn't be raising a fuss about this unless they are comfortable having some of their side exposed.
I believe this is one of those issues where the USA population needs to clamour for this investigation, not wait for the politicians to act.
I’m a fan of the rule of law, which insists that “guilt by association” isn’t a thing, though it very much is enough to question someone’s judgment. With Bill, I think the public record was...
I’m a fan of the rule of law, which insists that “guilt by association” isn’t a thing, though it very much is enough to question someone’s judgment. With Bill, I think the public record was already clear that his judge of character is... um, not always great.
No, it shouldn't. Everyone involved should burn. No exceptions. I'm just saying that framing this as a Dems vs. GOP is a bit simplistic, because both sides have their skeletons on this one. But...
No, it shouldn't. Everyone involved should burn. No exceptions.
I'm just saying that framing this as a Dems vs. GOP is a bit simplistic, because both sides have their skeletons on this one.
But all of them should come out and the involved parties should pay the price. And then hopefully go to whatever hell they believe in.
They ought to get comfortable with it. If Al Franken had to get tossed out, everyone hangs. But I think this is one of those deals like, if you owe a little money the bank owns you and if you owe...
so maybe, just maybe, the Democrats shouldn't be raising a fuss about this unless they are comfortable having some of their side exposed.
They ought to get comfortable with it. If Al Franken had to get tossed out, everyone hangs.
But I think this is one of those deals like, if you owe a little money the bank owns you and if you owe a lot of money you own the bank.
I actually had that said to me by a client once. I asked why he only had dealings with one bank here (he had the largest total debt with said bank) and he told me that when he owned the bank a...
I actually had that said to me by a client once. I asked why he only had dealings with one bank here (he had the largest total debt with said bank) and he told me that when he owned the bank a million, it was his problem. Now that he owned a few hundred million, it was the bank's problem.
And I'm for everyone in this thing burning down. The little I have read about the case (I'm trying to avoid the details) are bad enough.
Yes I'm hoping an independent investigation brings everyone to justice, but we all know that's just a pipe dream. The right will protect their own with everything they have.
Yes I'm hoping an independent investigation brings everyone to justice, but we all know that's just a pipe dream. The right will protect their own with everything they have.
Oh, I'm totally on board with this view, probably could take it a bit further. I'm just saying that framing this as a "Dems should make a fuss because the GOP won't" is a bit simplistic, because...
Oh, I'm totally on board with this view, probably could take it a bit further. I'm just saying that framing this as a "Dems should make a fuss because the GOP won't" is a bit simplistic, because both parties probably have more than a few people who are glad he's dead.
so the one person who actually deserves to get put through hell by our fucking garbage justice system just gets to basically take his secrets to the grave like that? and we're still not going to...
so the one person who actually deserves to get put through hell by our fucking garbage justice system just gets to basically take his secrets to the grave like that? and we're still not going to glass this justice system and replace it with something that actually works like it's supposed to and delivers justice to people in cases like this while ensuring people who have the ability to change can do so?
Surely this is a case of corruption. I suppose he had more than enough money to pay the guards to look the other way and give him back his shoelaces...
Surely this is a case of corruption. I suppose he had more than enough money to pay the guards to look the other way and give him back his shoelaces...
It's also possible someone didn't want him talking, and was more than happy to facilitate his suicide. Given his history, it seems likely he had dirt on some powerful people.
It's also possible someone didn't want him talking, and was more than happy to facilitate his suicide. Given his history, it seems likely he had dirt on some powerful people.
oh, that's annoying. here's tom winter of NBC's tweet on the same thing. NBC hasn't seemingly retracted their reporting here so i'm not sure what their reason for deleting that tweet would be....
oh, that's annoying. here's tom winter of NBC's tweet on the same thing. NBC hasn't seemingly retracted their reporting here so i'm not sure what their reason for deleting that tweet would be.
EDIT: oh, probably a duplicate. i have fixed their link accordingly.
the already bountiful conspiracy theories surrounding epstein are about to get a nice booster from the president, who just retweeted something about bill clinton's ties to him. something something...
the already bountiful conspiracy theories surrounding epstein are about to get a nice booster from the president, who just retweeted something about bill clinton's ties to him. something something may you live in interesting times, i suppose.
Jeffrey Epstein: How conspiracy theories spread after financier's death Thought I'd include this instead of posting separately. It's interesting seeing how this has developed into popular...
Thought I'd include this instead of posting separately. It's interesting seeing how this has developed into popular conspiracy theories from all sides. It's an impressive clusterfuck, really.
Well, that piece of shit got of easy; I can't say I am surprised as HE ALREADY TRIED TO KILL HIMSELF. I would have thought that when someone tries to commit suicide, you put them on suicide watch....
Well, that piece of shit got of easy; I can't say I am surprised as HE ALREADY TRIED TO KILL HIMSELF. I would have thought that when someone tries to commit suicide, you put them on suicide watch. I wonder if we will ever find out for sure if Trump and /or Bill Clinton were clients of his trafficking ring.
I understand that sentiment. But, in cases like this, the line between justice and revenge gets blurred very easily. The former I support, the later I abhor.
I understand that sentiment. But, in cases like this, the line between justice and revenge gets blurred very easily. The former I support, the later I abhor.
I think that's an interesting conversation to have if he were just sitting in a cell after the conclusion of the court case, but the fact that he has likely taken key information about other...
I think that's an interesting conversation to have if he were just sitting in a cell after the conclusion of the court case, but the fact that he has likely taken key information about other perpetrators to his grave makes it an unequivocal issue of justice as I see it.
Justice is messy. It's not perfect and for some cases, the person who perpetrated the crimes is too powerful and can get out of any meaningful punishment. So what are we supposed to do then?
Justice is messy. It's not perfect and for some cases, the person who perpetrated the crimes is too powerful and can get out of any meaningful punishment. So what are we supposed to do then?
And so, bedraggled and on the cusp of final victory, there arose a great calamity the world over in the form of one large, collective, "GOD. FUCKING. DAMMIT."
And so, bedraggled and on the cusp of final victory, there arose a great calamity the world over in the form of one large, collective, "GOD. FUCKING. DAMMIT."
How did they not have him under 24/7 security considering he had already tried to commit suicide since being taken into custody? I'm by no means a conspiracy theorist but come on.
people are really overestimating the competence and purity of the prison system in this country here, lol. it's possible epstein was murdered or coerced into suicide or something, but it's also just as likely--probably moreso--that someone simply fucked up along the way here as is often the case, or he just had someone look the other way while he did it. there are plenty of people who are just dumb or corrupt in the prison system, and it would hardly be the first time something of this nature happens under the watch of people who should have easily prevented it.
At the potential expense of their job... Likely with no compensation
If it's a simple fuckup, then it's the fuckup of the year. (Not the fuckup of the century, or the fuckup of the decade, I can think of bigger abject failures in those timeframes.)
But if it's not a simple fuckup, then it's an obvious conspiracy.
The real question that follows is not "Who are the conspirators?" because there are dozens of powerful men with strong incentive to keep him quiet.
Instead the question is "Why did they make it so obvious?"
When Russians use polonium or novichok, they want it known that they did it while maintaining official deniability.
If Epstein was murdered, the conspirators could have poisoned him or induced cardiac arrest to make it look like a natural cause.
Instead, they intentionally used an implausible method to cast suspicion in one particular direction.
Maybe I'm new at this whole conspiracy thing, but Occam's Razor would imply that he was put on suicide watch, then taken off or neglected out of apathy long enough for him to string something together. A prison being ran poorly isn't exactly a high burden of proof, and if he was alone long enough for secret cabals to murder him, suicide isn't exactly out of the question either.
For the same reasons the Russians use radioactive isotopes or neocons explode your plane - and also probably the same reason they fly around the world raping little kids. They get off on not following the same rules as the rest of us, the peasants. They like to show that they're capable of these things. And it is a message to anyone else who may be compromised or thinking of cooperating.
He was taken off of suicide watch before his demise. Whoever made that decision should one of the first to be investigated.
Seriously. Looking into the circumstances around his removal from suicide watch is an easy first lead to follow.
Most places will only keep someone on suicide watch if there is a clinical reason to do so. I can't really speak for prisons, but I can speak for acute psychiatric hospitals. 1:1s (a much higher form of suicide watch than what prisons likely have), usually only last 1-3 days.
I would anticipate that a prison is more likely following 10-15 minute observation rounds, which is kind of the bare minimum (it was, actually, the bare minimum when I worked in high-acuity psych inpatient treatment).
Jesus, I can't believe this actually happened. I hope they're trying to lock Ghislaine Maxwell down, wherever she is.
"Fun" side note, I just went to search for her name to make sure I was spelling it right, and the top suggestion in DuckDuckGo as soon as I got to "ghis" was "ghislaine maxwell found unresponsive". It's right near the top in Google too. Search engines already helping spread fake news.
Seth Abramson tweeted some interesting stuff that he just wants out there now: https://twitter.com/SethAbramson/status/1160190380056485889
Didn't know about MBS. Wow.
This is going to dwarf any conspiracy theory going back to 9/11, and could match both it and Kennedy. You will be hearing this event mentioned until the day you die.
The Democrat candidates should be campaigning on having a Mueller-scale investigation into how this happened and who enabled it.
For a conspiracy to gain traction there has to be doubt. This is going to be used as a point of evidence for elite paedophile rings but in and off itself it's not really a conspiracy. I can't imagine anyone doubts that he was "suicided" or was pressured into suicide in some manner.
This is as much a warning as a silencing. Other than edge candidates anyone who thinks they have a chance at a political career isn't going to touch this with a barge pole.
When the killer is unknown, the first questions are about means, motive and opportunity.
There are many extraordinarily powerful men with the motive, and men that powerful can acquire the means and opportunity without casting suspicion on themselves.
So the next question is "Qui bono?" or "Who benefits?"
Assassins this powerful could have made the cause of death look natural. Instead they chose a method that would instantly trigger one of the oldest and most widely known conspiracy theories in the US.
They made it blatantly obvious for a reason.
We are seeing doubt right now. The right says it was the left, the left says it was the right, there's another group that says it was on his own and the prison system is just that retarded, and a bunch of people each pointing at Bilderberg or Rothschild or the British Royals or probably lizard men etc etc.
I don't think it's much of a stretch to believe he actually did commit suicide. He was removed from suicide watch, and knowing how clever suicidal people can get (my dad was a nurse at a psychiatric hospital, and he had plenty of stories about this), it is easy to believe Epstein could have killed himself between the half-hour rounds the guards made for non-suicide watch people.
That being said, it seems obvious that he should have remained on suicide watch. And I hope this spurs mental health prison reforms, as being removed from suicide watch also removes you from most psychiatric care, even though you might not be very well yet.
This is the part people are interested in. No need to murder someone when you can just facilitate them killing themselves.
Also, worth pointing out that I highly doubt that he only had names on the GOP side, so maybe, just maybe, the Democrats shouldn't be raising a fuss about this unless they are comfortable having some of their side exposed.
I believe this is one of those issues where the USA population needs to clamour for this investigation, not wait for the politicians to act.
I’m a fan of the rule of law, which insists that “guilt by association” isn’t a thing, though it very much is enough to question someone’s judgment. With Bill, I think the public record was already clear that his judge of character is... um, not always great.
No, it shouldn't. Everyone involved should burn. No exceptions.
I'm just saying that framing this as a Dems vs. GOP is a bit simplistic, because both sides have their skeletons on this one.
But all of them should come out and the involved parties should pay the price. And then hopefully go to whatever hell they believe in.
I didn't understand the pizzagate stuff about Hillary, but fuck Bill.
They ought to get comfortable with it. If Al Franken had to get tossed out, everyone hangs.
But I think this is one of those deals like, if you owe a little money the bank owns you and if you owe a lot of money you own the bank.
I actually had that said to me by a client once. I asked why he only had dealings with one bank here (he had the largest total debt with said bank) and he told me that when he owned the bank a million, it was his problem. Now that he owned a few hundred million, it was the bank's problem.
And I'm for everyone in this thing burning down. The little I have read about the case (I'm trying to avoid the details) are bad enough.
Dude, we are talking about pedophiles. No one should care what side of the aisle they fall on. If you engage in pedophilia you deserve to be in jail.
Yes I'm hoping an independent investigation brings everyone to justice, but we all know that's just a pipe dream. The right will protect their own with everything they have.
Oh, I'm totally on board with this view, probably could take it a bit further. I'm just saying that framing this as a "Dems should make a fuss because the GOP won't" is a bit simplistic, because both parties probably have more than a few people who are glad he's dead.
And I don't think they should get off.
so the one person who actually deserves to get put through hell by our fucking garbage justice system just gets to basically take his secrets to the grave like that? and we're still not going to glass this justice system and replace it with something that actually works like it's supposed to and delivers justice to people in cases like this while ensuring people who have the ability to change can do so?
Surely this is a case of corruption. I suppose he had more than enough money to pay the guards to look the other way and give him back his shoelaces...
It's also possible someone didn't want him talking, and was more than happy to facilitate his suicide. Given his history, it seems likely he had dirt on some powerful people.
Not even just likely; most definitely
https://twitter.com/ryangrim/status/1148281994905870336
Thinking about it more, that does seem perhaps more likely. Nefarious, either way.
turns out he wasn't actually on suicide watch when he attempted. that'll do it, yeah.
oh, that's annoying. here's tom winter of NBC's tweet on the same thing. NBC hasn't seemingly retracted their reporting here so i'm not sure what their reason for deleting that tweet would be.
EDIT: oh, probably a duplicate. i have fixed their link accordingly.
the already bountiful conspiracy theories surrounding epstein are about to get a nice booster from the president, who just retweeted something about bill clinton's ties to him. something something may you live in interesting times, i suppose.
Jeffrey Epstein: How conspiracy theories spread after financier's death
Thought I'd include this instead of posting separately. It's interesting seeing how this has developed into popular conspiracy theories from all sides. It's an impressive clusterfuck, really.
Well, that piece of shit got of easy; I can't say I am surprised as HE ALREADY TRIED TO KILL HIMSELF. I would have thought that when someone tries to commit suicide, you put them on suicide watch. I wonder if we will ever find out for sure if Trump and /or Bill Clinton were clients of his trafficking ring.
I may be the only person to express this here, but: I do not feel joy with news of any act of suicide.
Ideally, he would rot in a jail cell for 30 years. I’m not happy he killed himself, I’m sad his victims won’t get to see justice served.
I understand that sentiment. But, in cases like this, the line between justice and revenge gets blurred very easily. The former I support, the later I abhor.
I think that's an interesting conversation to have if he were just sitting in a cell after the conclusion of the court case, but the fact that he has likely taken key information about other perpetrators to his grave makes it an unequivocal issue of justice as I see it.
Justice is messy. It's not perfect and for some cases, the person who perpetrated the crimes is too powerful and can get out of any meaningful punishment. So what are we supposed to do then?
IDK, but that counter-argument does not seem valid.
And so, bedraggled and on the cusp of final victory, there arose a great calamity the world over in the form of one large, collective, "GOD. FUCKING. DAMMIT."
This is outrageous!