Somehow, this article is less comforting than just accepting that we all die. It normalizes the idea that nuclear war is inevitable, and I don't want any part of that world.
Somehow, this article is less comforting than just accepting that we all die.
It normalizes the idea that nuclear war is inevitable, and I don't want any part of that world.
Yeah, I also get "prepper" vibes from this. At the very least it doesn't seem as short-sighted as the guys who are hoarding things like cans of chili and freeze-dried meals, but at the same time...
Yeah, I also get "prepper" vibes from this. At the very least it doesn't seem as short-sighted as the guys who are hoarding things like cans of chili and freeze-dried meals, but at the same time it's telling that they're talking about algea farms that can be up and running in 9-12 months to feed 15% of the world's population in a scenario where a huge percentage of those people will be dead long before they get to that point, either from the nuclear fallout or from the lack of food.
I take offense to the "hoarding cans of chili" remark (kidding). Everyone should have the largest stockpile they can afford to fit in their home though. Canned chili has an expiration date of like...
I take offense to the "hoarding cans of chili" remark (kidding). Everyone should have the largest stockpile they can afford to fit in their home though.
Canned chili has an expiration date of like 2 years or more. It just makes sense to keep 50 of those at all times. Eat the oldest can each week, replace with 4 cans each month. And now you have 2 months of emergency dinners if you find yourself unemployed. Or a week of dinners for you and your 8 closest neighbors.
Everyone mocks the preppers until there's a crisis. Just there's exponentially more likely a hurricane or earthquake than a zombie apocalyspse.
It just strikes me as misguided. If it's an apocalypse, then they're hoarding the wrong thing because chili is not a renewable resources; they should be stocking a variety of beans and seeds that...
It just strikes me as misguided. If it's an apocalypse, then they're hoarding the wrong thing because chili is not a renewable resources; they should be stocking a variety of beans and seeds that can be both food and starter to grow more. And if it's something like an earthquake or tornado they only need a relatively well-stocked pantry because the disruption in food availability is only temporary. It's silly to stock food in case of unemployment because it's much easier to just save money and buy fresh food if and when it happens. Money doesn't expire in the same sense that food does.
This is true, but you can't eat cash. Ideally you have a bit of both. If only because having that money tied up in food prevents spending it on other things. My family eats a lot of rice. I have...
This is true, but you can't eat cash. Ideally you have a bit of both. If only because having that money tied up in food prevents spending it on other things. My family eats a lot of rice. I have no less than 50 lbs of rice in my home at any time.
It also could take 90 days or more to get food from your stockpile of seeds...having 3 months of almost-ready-to-eat food tides you over till that happens. Plus a lot of foods won't necessarily grow well in any given climate.
It also gives you a lot more leeway to wait for coupons and sales and dodge supply shock pricing. I can wait till toilet paper goes on sale because I keep a 3 month supply in my house. I don't need to shop for non-perishables every week or two, so I can just hit the produce store that has cheaper produce than the generic grocer. The only difference between a well-stocked pantry and a hoard/stockpile is size.
And yea, a temporary food supply disruption is hopefully temporary. The thing about disasters is that they punish those whom are not prepared the hardest. Having enough in your pantry to feed the block makes you a hero...because a solid 20% or more of the population might not have that pantry.
Potable water is really the most important, but hardest, thing to stockpile. There's all sorts of ways that your local water supply can be ruined, indefinitely.
I will die happy if I never need to tap into my hoard for an emergency. But there's peace of mind that I have a large stockpile of food, and I have that flexibility to reduce my food budget as-needed when other crisis come up.
Edit: Stockpiling the most commonly broken parts for your major appliances can triple longevity when the manufactuer stops manufacturing them with no warning. Plus lets you repair much faster than waiting for a part to ship. Bought a new washer 3 months ago, and have been building up my 'commonly replaced part box for it since.
It's interesting that when the word "prepper" is used I think about the people you mention in your first post - people with a huge, poorly organised, stockpile of stuff that's going to be...
It's interesting that when the word "prepper" is used I think about the people you mention in your first post - people with a huge, poorly organised, stockpile of stuff that's going to be moderately useful when they need it but which is missing a lot of necessary stuff and has bad ideas about stock rotation and shelf life control.
it's much easier to just save money and buy fresh food if and when it happens
This assumes the shops are not flooded, and are still open and selling.
Keeping a couple of weeks of food, and alternate cooking methods, is a useful thing for everyone to do. People on low income find it difficult to save cash, but buying one or two extra cans per week and stashing that in a cupboard is affordable and achievable. In the UK I recommend it to people claiming state benefits because those benefits can be stopped (suspended or sanctioned) at any point, leaving people suddenly with zero income. Having a few days of food helps people avoid that urgent need for a food-bank referral, and there's a small chance that this helps avoid rapid onset despair which might possibly reduce suicide risk. (I'm trying to be cautious with my wording here, because the evidence is difficult to get).
The situation you quoted was simple unemployment. If the stores are closed due to a disaster it’s a different scenario altogether. I suppose my problem with the prepper mindset is that I sometimes...
The situation you quoted was simple unemployment. If the stores are closed due to a disaster it’s a different scenario altogether.
I suppose my problem with the prepper mindset is that I sometimes see it combined with an antisocial mentality. It often seems like they are trying less to be prepared than they are to avoid accepting assistance if something were to happen. I suppose that’s fine if you live in the middle of nowhere where that would be hard to get, but if you have more than a handful of neighbors within a 1 mile radius the math changes somewhat. @vord mentioned sharing with neighbors which is part of the reason why I wasn’t particularly critical with them.
Damn you're serious? Have you checked out getting freeze dried food instead? Most have a 25 year expiration, you won't need to eat a can of chili each week to replenish. Plus cans can rust and get...
Damn you're serious? Have you checked out getting freeze dried food instead? Most have a 25 year expiration, you won't need to eat a can of chili each week to replenish. Plus cans can rust and get botulism and stuff, seems like a hassle. Go to any outdoor store and they should have like a bucket you can buy in bulk. I want a bucket just to have, doesn't go bad and in the event of an emergency I'm sure I'll be glad I have it.
Edit: and idk a bug out canoe actually doesn't seem so crazy with all the flooding we've been getting lately now that I think about it.
Some of us like chili.... Substitute chili for cans of black beans, green beans, corn, peas, carrots, fruit, and my point still holds. Dried black beans are great too, but the cans are easier and...
Some of us like chili....
Substitute chili for cans of black beans, green beans, corn, peas, carrots, fruit, and my point still holds. Dried black beans are great too, but the cans are easier and provide water as well... especially important if potable water is in short supply.
It's also easier to work in a few canned foods per week than it is to work in some freeze dried meals. If you grow food, you can also can your own stuff (usually in glass jars). Important skills if global food shipping gets disrupted for one reason or another. Not gonna do any good to be able to grow your own food if you don't know how to keep it from spoiling through the winter months.
Plus freeze dried food is generally worse than canned food IMO. I'd rather eat a can of chili a week than 10 freeze dried meals a year.
I don't think it's saying it's inevitable, but that it's possible. There's a huge range of possibilities when it comes to the complexity of man. So, while car crashes are possible, they're not...
I don't think it's saying it's inevitable, but that it's possible. There's a huge range of possibilities when it comes to the complexity of man. So, while car crashes are possible, they're not inevitable. And even though we'd still be quite injured in the event of one, it might still be beneficial to put in some seat belts and airbags.
Seaweed is fairly tasty and nutritious. (Shame about the heavy metals and radiation) and unlike regular farming, this is something we can make use of right now to supplement protein and put less stress on land proteins, even if nuclear war never comes. And think of the animals that can thrive in a new kelp forest! Maybe they can also boost mollusk aquaculture efforts too.
It's like......that super storm roof is great for Christmas lights even if a tornadoes never comes, and putting the roof up doesn't mean we'll for sure get a tornado......
I don't know, Im trying to see the optimistic side of this study
My criticism is all about normalization of behavior, which is explored more about all sorts of stuff. I have virtually no issue just exploring seaweed as a bigger foodsource, without that 'nuclear...
My criticism is all about normalization of behavior, which is explored more about all sorts of stuff. I have virtually no issue just exploring seaweed as a bigger foodsource, without that 'nuclear war survival' bent.
Honestly, (I don't trying to attack you, or criticize) I don't completely understand idea of "normalization". We go to the cinema to watch movies about killers, killing, thief, etc. etc. but thats...
Honestly, (I don't trying to attack you, or criticize) I don't completely understand idea of "normalization".
We go to the cinema to watch movies about killers, killing, thief, etc. etc. but thats probably not a "normalization" and we have millions of books, games about the same topics and this also probably not a "normalization".. somehow?
Let's look at something fairly innocuous to start. Toilet paper and bidets. In the USA, there are virtually 0 bidets outside of private residences. If you ask where the bidet is in public, odds...
Let's look at something fairly innocuous to start. Toilet paper and bidets.
In the USA, there are virtually 0 bidets outside of private residences. If you ask where the bidet is in public, odds are pretty good the average person won't have the foggiest clue about what you're talking about. Toilet paper is so deeply normalized for many that the very concept of washing your butt after pooping is strange and unusual. This was even more true 20 years ago. In other parts of the world, the reverse is true.
War movies normalize war....why do you think the US military is happy to subsidize costs of movies like Top Gun? Because it re-enforces the narrative that soldiers are alway noble heros and that war is always just. That the USA is The Universal Force For Justice.
Saying "shit" on TV used to be horrifically taboo (again USA). After the first few times people got away with it though, it became normal, no longer a shock, just a fact of life that you can say "shit" on TV.
School shootings are normalized in the USA. We have active shooter drills, we expect them to happen now, it's no longer a shock. I'd be more surprised if we went 4 months without a school shooting than hearing that somebody set off a bomb and killed 2,000 kids.
I could go on with a million things in a million ways.
It's not to say normalization is inherintly bad. It's about what is normalized and how.
It would probably be a bad thing if every single movie portrayed serial killers as heros and not enemies.
Hmm, I get what you're saying and I agree. Regardless of the reality of whether or not nuclear war is inevitable, the social normalization of it creates a culture that will begin to revolve around...
Hmm, I get what you're saying and I agree.
Regardless of the reality of whether or not nuclear war is inevitable, the social normalization of it creates a culture that will begin to revolve around it.
i.e. bad vibes / a kind of martial-existential vibecession.
I understand you points, but I still not sure that I understand difference between mention of something and normalization. Probably have to think about it more. Thanks for explanation!
I understand you points, but I still not sure that I understand difference between mention of something and normalization. Probably have to think about it more. Thanks for explanation!
Somehow, this article is less comforting than just accepting that we all die.
It normalizes the idea that nuclear war is inevitable, and I don't want any part of that world.
Yeah, I agree... You know what else would save a lot of people? Not having a nuclear war. The only winning move is not to play.
Yeah, I also get "prepper" vibes from this. At the very least it doesn't seem as short-sighted as the guys who are hoarding things like cans of chili and freeze-dried meals, but at the same time it's telling that they're talking about algea farms that can be up and running in 9-12 months to feed 15% of the world's population in a scenario where a huge percentage of those people will be dead long before they get to that point, either from the nuclear fallout or from the lack of food.
I take offense to the "hoarding cans of chili" remark (kidding). Everyone should have the largest stockpile they can afford to fit in their home though.
Canned chili has an expiration date of like 2 years or more. It just makes sense to keep 50 of those at all times. Eat the oldest can each week, replace with 4 cans each month. And now you have 2 months of emergency dinners if you find yourself unemployed. Or a week of dinners for you and your 8 closest neighbors.
Everyone mocks the preppers until there's a crisis. Just there's exponentially more likely a hurricane or earthquake than a zombie apocalyspse.
Now the people with bugout canoes OTOH....
It just strikes me as misguided. If it's an apocalypse, then they're hoarding the wrong thing because chili is not a renewable resources; they should be stocking a variety of beans and seeds that can be both food and starter to grow more. And if it's something like an earthquake or tornado they only need a relatively well-stocked pantry because the disruption in food availability is only temporary. It's silly to stock food in case of unemployment because it's much easier to just save money and buy fresh food if and when it happens. Money doesn't expire in the same sense that food does.
This is true, but you can't eat cash. Ideally you have a bit of both. If only because having that money tied up in food prevents spending it on other things. My family eats a lot of rice. I have no less than 50 lbs of rice in my home at any time.
It also could take 90 days or more to get food from your stockpile of seeds...having 3 months of almost-ready-to-eat food tides you over till that happens. Plus a lot of foods won't necessarily grow well in any given climate.
It also gives you a lot more leeway to wait for coupons and sales and dodge supply shock pricing. I can wait till toilet paper goes on sale because I keep a 3 month supply in my house. I don't need to shop for non-perishables every week or two, so I can just hit the produce store that has cheaper produce than the generic grocer. The only difference between a well-stocked pantry and a hoard/stockpile is size.
And yea, a temporary food supply disruption is hopefully temporary. The thing about disasters is that they punish those whom are not prepared the hardest. Having enough in your pantry to feed the block makes you a hero...because a solid 20% or more of the population might not have that pantry.
Potable water is really the most important, but hardest, thing to stockpile. There's all sorts of ways that your local water supply can be ruined, indefinitely.
I will die happy if I never need to tap into my hoard for an emergency. But there's peace of mind that I have a large stockpile of food, and I have that flexibility to reduce my food budget as-needed when other crisis come up.
Edit: Stockpiling the most commonly broken parts for your major appliances can triple longevity when the manufactuer stops manufacturing them with no warning. Plus lets you repair much faster than waiting for a part to ship. Bought a new washer 3 months ago, and have been building up my 'commonly replaced part box for it since.
It's interesting that when the word "prepper" is used I think about the people you mention in your first post - people with a huge, poorly organised, stockpile of stuff that's going to be moderately useful when they need it but which is missing a lot of necessary stuff and has bad ideas about stock rotation and shelf life control.
This assumes the shops are not flooded, and are still open and selling.
Keeping a couple of weeks of food, and alternate cooking methods, is a useful thing for everyone to do. People on low income find it difficult to save cash, but buying one or two extra cans per week and stashing that in a cupboard is affordable and achievable. In the UK I recommend it to people claiming state benefits because those benefits can be stopped (suspended or sanctioned) at any point, leaving people suddenly with zero income. Having a few days of food helps people avoid that urgent need for a food-bank referral, and there's a small chance that this helps avoid rapid onset despair which might possibly reduce suicide risk. (I'm trying to be cautious with my wording here, because the evidence is difficult to get).
The situation you quoted was simple unemployment. If the stores are closed due to a disaster it’s a different scenario altogether.
I suppose my problem with the prepper mindset is that I sometimes see it combined with an antisocial mentality. It often seems like they are trying less to be prepared than they are to avoid accepting assistance if something were to happen. I suppose that’s fine if you live in the middle of nowhere where that would be hard to get, but if you have more than a handful of neighbors within a 1 mile radius the math changes somewhat. @vord mentioned sharing with neighbors which is part of the reason why I wasn’t particularly critical with them.
Damn you're serious? Have you checked out getting freeze dried food instead? Most have a 25 year expiration, you won't need to eat a can of chili each week to replenish. Plus cans can rust and get botulism and stuff, seems like a hassle. Go to any outdoor store and they should have like a bucket you can buy in bulk. I want a bucket just to have, doesn't go bad and in the event of an emergency I'm sure I'll be glad I have it.
Edit: and idk a bug out canoe actually doesn't seem so crazy with all the flooding we've been getting lately now that I think about it.
Some of us like chili....
Substitute chili for cans of black beans, green beans, corn, peas, carrots, fruit, and my point still holds. Dried black beans are great too, but the cans are easier and provide water as well... especially important if potable water is in short supply.
It's also easier to work in a few canned foods per week than it is to work in some freeze dried meals. If you grow food, you can also can your own stuff (usually in glass jars). Important skills if global food shipping gets disrupted for one reason or another. Not gonna do any good to be able to grow your own food if you don't know how to keep it from spoiling through the winter months.
Plus freeze dried food is generally worse than canned food IMO. I'd rather eat a can of chili a week than 10 freeze dried meals a year.
Good points, practicality of cans makes sense. I was just thinking from a purely longevity standpoint, I didn't consider the other factors.
I don't think it's saying it's inevitable, but that it's possible. There's a huge range of possibilities when it comes to the complexity of man. So, while car crashes are possible, they're not inevitable. And even though we'd still be quite injured in the event of one, it might still be beneficial to put in some seat belts and airbags.
Seaweed is fairly tasty and nutritious. (Shame about the heavy metals and radiation) and unlike regular farming, this is something we can make use of right now to supplement protein and put less stress on land proteins, even if nuclear war never comes. And think of the animals that can thrive in a new kelp forest! Maybe they can also boost mollusk aquaculture efforts too.
It's like......that super storm roof is great for Christmas lights even if a tornadoes never comes, and putting the roof up doesn't mean we'll for sure get a tornado......
I don't know, Im trying to see the optimistic side of this study
My criticism is all about normalization of behavior, which is explored more about all sorts of stuff. I have virtually no issue just exploring seaweed as a bigger foodsource, without that 'nuclear war survival' bent.
Here's an article discussing the normalization of rape culture.
Here's an article discussing normalization of militarization and violence.
Honestly, (I don't trying to attack you, or criticize) I don't completely understand idea of "normalization".
We go to the cinema to watch movies about killers, killing, thief, etc. etc. but thats probably not a "normalization" and we have millions of books, games about the same topics and this also probably not a "normalization".. somehow?
Let's look at something fairly innocuous to start. Toilet paper and bidets.
In the USA, there are virtually 0 bidets outside of private residences. If you ask where the bidet is in public, odds are pretty good the average person won't have the foggiest clue about what you're talking about. Toilet paper is so deeply normalized for many that the very concept of washing your butt after pooping is strange and unusual. This was even more true 20 years ago. In other parts of the world, the reverse is true.
War movies normalize war....why do you think the US military is happy to subsidize costs of movies like Top Gun? Because it re-enforces the narrative that soldiers are alway noble heros and that war is always just. That the USA is The Universal Force For Justice.
Saying "shit" on TV used to be horrifically taboo (again USA). After the first few times people got away with it though, it became normal, no longer a shock, just a fact of life that you can say "shit" on TV.
School shootings are normalized in the USA. We have active shooter drills, we expect them to happen now, it's no longer a shock. I'd be more surprised if we went 4 months without a school shooting than hearing that somebody set off a bomb and killed 2,000 kids.
I could go on with a million things in a million ways.
It's not to say normalization is inherintly bad. It's about what is normalized and how.
It would probably be a bad thing if every single movie portrayed serial killers as heros and not enemies.
Does that help?
Hmm, I get what you're saying and I agree.
Regardless of the reality of whether or not nuclear war is inevitable, the social normalization of it creates a culture that will begin to revolve around it.
i.e. bad vibes / a kind of martial-existential vibecession.
The 2020's: The Great Vibecession
Lets make it happen people. The Boomers made Gen Y into Millenials, we can do this.
I understand you points, but I still not sure that I understand difference between mention of something and normalization. Probably have to think about it more. Thanks for explanation!
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Well, I would prefer no nuclear war, but roasted seaweed is a tasty snack.