56 votes

United Kingdom, Australia and Canada officially recognize a Palestinian state

14 comments

  1. [7]
    skybrian
    (edited )
    Link
    I don’t see how any Palestinians will be saved by these symbolic gestures. How will this stop Israel? How many refugees will these countries take in? Compare with Ukraine. I don’t recommend...

    I don’t see how any Palestinians will be saved by these symbolic gestures. How will this stop Israel? How many refugees will these countries take in?

    Compare with Ukraine. I don’t recommend sending arms to Hamas like we do to the Ukrainians, but since that’s out, taking in refugees seems like the best thing to do.

    8 votes
    1. [4]
      KapteinB
      Link Parent
      I don't really understand why the article considers this purely symbolic. Recognition will give Palestine and its citizens more international rights. I guess you could argue that the only...

      I don't really understand why the article considers this purely symbolic. Recognition will give Palestine and its citizens more international rights. I guess you could argue that the only recognition that actually matters is from the USA, but I don't think that makes other recognitions symbolic gestures.

      I also don't understand why this article only mentions Hamas, and not the internationally recognised government of Palestine.

      30 votes
      1. [3]
        skybrian
        Link Parent
        That sounds interesting. What international rights will Palestinians get? Any better articles?

        That sounds interesting. What international rights will Palestinians get? Any better articles?

        5 votes
        1. [2]
          KapteinB
          Link Parent
          These three countries will now consider Palestinians to be from an actual country and not a make-believe one. The exact rights will vary from country to country, but typically things related to...

          These three countries will now consider Palestinians to be from an actual country and not a make-believe one. The exact rights will vary from country to country, but typically things related to travel, work, studies, doing business, etc.

          20 votes
          1. skybrian
            Link Parent
            According to this article, UK recognition means very little for ordinary Palestinians as far as the UK is concerned: What does recognising Palestine as a state actually mean? (The Independent) I...

            According to this article, UK recognition means very little for ordinary Palestinians as far as the UK is concerned:

            What does recognising Palestine as a state actually mean? (The Independent)

            Sir Vincent Fean, a former British consul general to Jerusalem and now a trustee of the charity Britain Palestine Project, explained that recognition of Palestine as a state would mean that if Palestinian passports were issued, they would subsequently be recognised by the UK as passports of a state.

            However, Sir Vincent said Palestinian statehood would not affect the UK’s refugee system.

            “Does it impact the tally of refugees coming to the UK? No,” he said. This is because he expects the visa regime the UK currently has with Palestine – where travel is only allowed between the two after a successful visa application – will continue.

            He added that Palestinian statehood “wouldn’t particularly change the right of return for Palestinians to their homeland”. He said this was a “long-standing right”, although it would require negotiation with Israel.

            I asked ChatGPT to find similar articles for Canada and Australia, and it was unable to find any.

            4 votes
    2. [2]
      Adys
      Link Parent
      I live in the Brussels city center and for the past months, every day like clockwork there’s protestors yelling about Palestine. Only thing they seem to care about is recognising a Palestinian...

      I live in the Brussels city center and for the past months, every day like clockwork there’s protestors yelling about Palestine. Only thing they seem to care about is recognising a Palestinian state.

      With that in mind, what’s the ask if not that?

      2 votes
      1. skybrian
        Link Parent
        I don’t know what you mean by “what’s the ask.” But if someone asked the protesters what recognizing a Palestinian state (by Belgium? the EU?) would accomplish, I wonder what they would say?

        I don’t know what you mean by “what’s the ask.” But if someone asked the protesters what recognizing a Palestinian state (by Belgium? the EU?) would accomplish, I wonder what they would say?

        2 votes
  2. [7]
    unkz
    Link
    Despite their protestations to the contrary, I think it's hard to read this as anything other than a reward for October 7 and a validation of Hamas's tactics of sacrificing Palestinian lives for...

    Despite their protestations to the contrary, I think it's hard to read this as anything other than a reward for October 7 and a validation of Hamas's tactics of sacrificing Palestinian lives for political gains, and I think that's how the Palestinian public is going to interpret it.

    7 votes
    1. rosco
      Link Parent
      I mean, we're nearly at a 100:1 casualty ratio for Palestinians vs Israelis. If Israel didn't respond in such an outsized, genocidal way and continuously undermine peace talks maybe the...

      I mean, we're nearly at a 100:1 casualty ratio for Palestinians vs Israelis. If Israel didn't respond in such an outsized, genocidal way and continuously undermine peace talks maybe the international community wouldn't be pressed to do this.

      October 7th was horrible, but at this point Israel has had so many options to get off this ride and has actively decided not to.

      39 votes
    2. pseudolobster
      Link Parent
      I'm pretty sure the leaders endorsing the state of Palestine have full-on condemned the actions of Hamas. I don't know your perspective, but I believe the Palestinian public will accept any help...

      I'm pretty sure the leaders endorsing the state of Palestine have full-on condemned the actions of Hamas.

      "Let's be frank. Hamas is a brutal terror organization. Our call for a genuine two-state solution is the exact opposite of their hateful vision," Starmer said Sunday. "So we are clear, this solution is not a reward for Hamas, because it means Hamas can have no future, no role in government, no role in security."

      I don't know your perspective, but I believe the Palestinian public will accept any help they can get at this point. Statehood would grant them irrevocable rights on the international stage and I'm sure no one in a war zone is going to turn their nose up at that.

      35 votes
    3. NaraVara
      Link Parent
      While I agree, this is also the predictable outcome of Israel going completely feral. There’s an alternate universe where the Israeli response was more measured, with realistic war goals and an...

      While I agree, this is also the predictable outcome of Israel going completely feral. There’s an alternate universe where the Israeli response was more measured, with realistic war goals and an articulated strategy that didn’t just revolve around blanket immiseration of the population until Hamas is “destroyed,” whatever that means for an irregular terrorist group.

      I was not among those who thought Israel was committing genocide earlier on, though war crimes did abound. And I was generally sympathetic to the broad strokes of something like the “generals plan” where they’d set up a safe zone, filter who gets in, and steady expand that zone.
      But once they cut off all aid with no realistic plan for how people were going to eat it became clear there’s no concern for preservation of life and the scale tipped over to ethnic cleansing. How long should people tolerate this sort of barbarity for fear of validating Hamas’ strategy?

      29 votes
    4. [2]
      thearctic
      Link Parent
      This is a bit of a strange way of framing things, given that the Palestinians should already be entitled to statehood. Hamas's greatest objective was turning the world against Israel, which Israel...

      This is a bit of a strange way of framing things, given that the Palestinians should already be entitled to statehood. Hamas's greatest objective was turning the world against Israel, which Israel delivered to them.

      16 votes
      1. crulife
        Link Parent
        Not currently, they don't. The fail 2/4 of the Montevideo Convention: they do not have properly defined territory nor do they have a properly functioning government. There's a country that has...

        Palestinians should already be entitled to statehood.

        Not currently, they don't. The fail 2/4 of the Montevideo Convention: they do not have properly defined territory nor do they have a properly functioning government.

        There's a country that has fulfilled 4/4 of these since 1949 and has been recognized by only 12 countries: Taiwan.

        2 votes
    5. skybrian
      Link Parent
      I don't see how the consequences of October 7 can be seen as anything other than a catastrophe for Palestinians, or even for Hamas. If they get some minor political gains, it's hardly worth the...

      I don't see how the consequences of October 7 can be seen as anything other than a catastrophe for Palestinians, or even for Hamas. If they get some minor political gains, it's hardly worth the losses. Unless it's using the logic of a suicide bomber, where they don't care if they die if they can take someone else out.