Lemmy (and the Fediverse as a whole) is a cool concept that I'm interested in watching. That said, a quick perusal of some of the top posts on lemmy.world right now show that there's a massive bot...
Lemmy (and the Fediverse as a whole) is a cool concept that I'm interested in watching. That said, a quick perusal of some of the top posts on lemmy.world right now show that there's a massive bot issue for which there's no good answer as of yet. There will likely not be a good answer in the foreseeable future.
I was a little skeptical of Tildes when I first signed up, but after hanging around for a while and reading through the Tildes docs, I've come to realize that the community has a much deeper level of engagement than I've seen elsewhere (except for certain corners of Reddit). I thought it's centralization would work against it, but it's pretty clear that Tildes is very intentionally planned and well thought out.
Anyway, a bit of a ramble, but I just wanted to call that out for anyone else like me that thought they'd prefer less centralization and ended up being won over by Tildes.
I also still stick around in Tildes but this also happened with Digg exodus. With centralized alternatives you don't know what will happen when they get big enough, that's why I do use...
I also still stick around in Tildes but this also happened with Digg exodus. With centralized alternatives you don't know what will happen when they get big enough, that's why I do use decentralized alternatives as well.
Agreed. I'm on lemmy, tildes, and mastodon right now, as 8ve been trying to kick reddit for a while even before this API nonsense. I'll just end up sticking to whatever ends up being the best...
Agreed. I'm on lemmy, tildes, and mastodon right now, as 8ve been trying to kick reddit for a while even before this API nonsense. I'll just end up sticking to whatever ends up being the best place to be.
There's basically as much or as little moderation as you want. Unfortunately, with the way federation works, there's not much stopping instances that are infested with bots from contributing to...
There's basically as much or as little moderation as you want. Unfortunately, with the way federation works, there's not much stopping instances that are infested with bots from contributing to any other instance until those instances are effectively blocked through defederation. It'd be more or less like playing a losing game of whack-a-mole.
One fix could be whitelisting, but that could impact smaller instances from being able to federate, defeating the purpose a bit.
Moderation is essentially identical to reddit, albeit with fewer (no?) third party tools built out. A lemmy community is for all intents and purposes the functional equivalent of a subreddit. The...
Moderation is essentially identical to reddit, albeit with fewer (no?) third party tools built out. A lemmy community is for all intents and purposes the functional equivalent of a subreddit. The only difference is that instance admins always have full moderation powers over communities hosted on their instance and don't necessarily have the cultural taboo that reddit (used to) have against admins intervening in subreddit affairs.
Lemmy world is still on the older version due to .18 temporarily disabling captchas. Not sure where you are seeing bot posts as the top content. Even browsing new, I'm not seeing a ton of it.
Lemmy world is still on the older version due to .18 temporarily disabling captchas.
Not sure where you are seeing bot posts as the top content. Even browsing new, I'm not seeing a ton of it.
You're right, I wasn't very clear on that. It was the discussion of the bot issue that I was seeing. If you stay on Local or Subscribed, then you're safe, but if you go to All even after they...
You're right, I wasn't very clear on that. It was the discussion of the bot issue that I was seeing. If you stay on Local or Subscribed, then you're safe, but if you go to All even after they re-enable captchas, there's not much stopping bot-infested instances from federating with and contributing to any instance, including lemmy.world.
Yep, that is certainly true. Needs to be a focus for admins to track down bot invested instances and either defederate or get the owner to clean them up. Was seeing an example of one that jumped...
Yep, that is certainly true. Needs to be a focus for admins to track down bot invested instances and either defederate or get the owner to clean them up. Was seeing an example of one that jumped 4k accounts in a week but had 2 active users.
Decentralization works only when there is a strong synchronicity and coordination among the nodes, it doesn't work when all nodes throw up their arms to some vague federal structure that nobody...
Decentralization works only when there is a strong synchronicity and coordination among the nodes, it doesn't work when all nodes throw up their arms to some vague federal structure that nobody will be responsible for.
In other words, centralization is needed at some level even here to keep the adjacent tiers well oiled and working.
Another thing lacking in many of these upcoming social networks is lack of Effective Leadership.
Decentralization is not a substitute for good leadership, however some pundits may want you to believe otherwise. There is a growing mindset lately that some sort of "ordered anarchy" will take care of itself in the absence of leadership. As much as oxymoronic that term sounds, it's just never going to happen.
Every good product ever created had a good leadership backing it. It could be loud and grandiose (like Zuck's Facebook or Musk's SpaceX) or it could be silent and subtle (like Reddit all those years until spez happened!). Even tildes is an example of silent and behind the scenes leadership.
The important thing to understand is that things don't run by themselves. Maybe they will some day and Skynet like things will happen but right now ain't that century! Until that happens, we humble plebs or humans need to do our karma the old school way and keep building things and taking responsibilities.
I'm not an expert in release numbering, but I thought that v1.0 was the first public release, and anything numbered v.0... was a pre-release version. Does this mean that Lemmy is still officially...
I'm not an expert in release numbering, but I thought that v1.0 was the first public release, and anything numbered v.0... was a pre-release version. Does this mean that Lemmy is still officially pre-release (kind of like Tildes)?
Versioning doesn't really mean anything unless the creators give it some kind of specific meaning. A popular way of versioning is Semantic Versioning where the <major>.<minor>.<patch> changes are...
Versioning doesn't really mean anything unless the creators give it some kind of specific meaning.
A popular way of versioning is Semantic Versioning where the <major>.<minor>.<patch> changes are dictated by what actually changes for direct users of whatever you're making, though it usually only makes sense for software where the users are developers. Games for example often do a 1.0.0 release as their "this is the game we wanted to make, done".
With projects like Lemmy it's likely more just a "here's the next goal we hit, version 0.18" and that's it. Similarly, Tildes doesn't even have a version number.
Yeah, as a developer I of course enjoy well-done semantic versioning, which usually means: Major changed = you will definitely have to at least massively review what you do with this library....
Yeah, as a developer I of course enjoy well-done semantic versioning, which usually means:
Major changed = you will definitely have to at least massively review what you do with this library.
Minor changed = everything will run, but you might see a bug or two if you don't review the bigger changes.
Patch changed = ought to work out of the box unless you programmed against a bug we now fixed.
Even for non-library software I like this if it follows the above pattern, <breaking-change>.<new-or-changed-functionality>.<bugfix-with-no-functional-changes>.
The other one I can get behind is simple release-date+incremental versioning or something like it. Jetbrains for example releases versions as <year>.<release-number>.<patch-number>, like 2023.1 or 2022.3.2 or so. Very neat, plus it orders correctly when sorted, too.
Yes, and that's how I've been told versioning works: version 1.0 is the work done, software completed, good to go, ready to give to the public or customer. I know Tildes doesn't have a version...
Games for example often do a 1.0.0 release as their "this is the game we wanted to make, done".
Yes, and that's how I've been told versioning works: version 1.0 is the work done, software completed, good to go, ready to give to the public or customer.
I know Tildes doesn't have a version number. Nor, I believe, does Reddit. However, when you're doing continuous development, as Deimos seemed to have been doing before things slowed down, version numbering doesn't make sense.
But, if you're using version numbers, then they obviously mean something in your context. And, I thought "version 0.x" meant pre-release. You're probably right that "v0.18" means they've hit another goal. The "18" probably signifies that this is the 18th time they've reached that point of updating the software. But, I thought the "0" meant the software was still in testing or pre-release or something like that.
Obviously, Lemmy is being used out in the wild. But so is Tildes - and we know Tildes is nowhere near being a finished product. So I assume that Lemmy is in a similar situation, of not being finished or feature-complete or ready for a public release, but is still being used anyway.
Oh well. Some things will have to remain a mystery.
I vaguely remember the devs saying that it's not v1 because that implies the API being stable, and it's not so that's why it's still v0, but that was a while back and I can't find the comment
I vaguely remember the devs saying that it's not v1 because that implies the API being stable, and it's not so that's why it's still v0, but that was a while back and I can't find the comment
It can mean that, but it doesn't have to. That's just what 0.x means in SemVer (semantic versioning), which Bauke described above. But if you preferred, you could use a completely different...
But, I thought the "0" meant the software was still in testing or pre-release or something like that.
It can mean that, but it doesn't have to. That's just what 0.x means in SemVer (semantic versioning), which Bauke described above. But if you preferred, you could use a completely different versioning scheme. It can be based on the date like Ubuntu does (eg. Ubuntu 23.04), or you could use odd numbers for development and even numbers for stable releases (as Linux did before 2.6). You could also invent a completely new system. Minecraft had three different 1.0 releases, but they carried the labels Alpha and Beta before the full release (they also later joked about version 1.7.12.banana.Λ).
So 0.x and 1.x only matter if the versioning scheme they're using places importance on those numbers. SemVer does, and is a quite popular versioning scheme. But I think that's given some people the assumption that all version numbers work that way.
One thing that caught my attention is the emergence of a decent android mobile app (Jerboa) developed by a former Reddit 3rd party developer. Test drove it today and was pleasantly surprised at...
One thing that caught my attention is the emergence of a decent android mobile app (Jerboa) developed by a former Reddit 3rd party developer. Test drove it today and was pleasantly surprised at the usability. First time I've thought there might be a viable alternative to rif/sync.
Actually my biggest sentiment after trying it was how much I wish tildes had an equivalent in the app store. I really don't think there would be anything really drawing me to check in on reddit if we had an equivalent mobile interface here. Fingers crossed!
Looks like you haven't heard but LJ is actually working on Sync for Lemmy: https://safereddit.com/r/SyncforLemmy/comments/14ee1ul/sync_for_lemmy_is_happening/ A few similar projects are also...
I had not, but that's great news. I've been a relay for reddit user for quite a while now but loved both Sync and RIF. Really excited to hear RIF is developing a tildes app!
I had not, but that's great news. I've been a relay for reddit user for quite a while now but loved both Sync and RIF. Really excited to hear RIF is developing a tildes app!
Here's the link to the announcement for that. Looks like we can expect an alpha release by October, or maybe September by the pace things are going. We've gone from 46 active donors to 353 in a...
Here's the link to the announcement for that. Looks like we can expect an alpha release by October, or maybe September by the pace things are going. We've gone from 46 active donors to 353 in a little over a week.
Lemmy is cool, but seems… undercooked? It’s so messy, hard to figure out where content is coming from, who’s posting what on what instance, what instances you can and can’t access. It’s way too...
Lemmy is cool, but seems… undercooked? It’s so messy, hard to figure out where content is coming from, who’s posting what on what instance, what instances you can and can’t access. It’s way too much for the average user, which means it’ll likely end up being just “tech” people like Mastodon.
Yeah I have a hard time finding actually interesting content on Mastodon as well. It just ends up being news that I've already seen elsewhere, or random history facts that I don't really care...
Yeah I have a hard time finding actually interesting content on Mastodon as well. It just ends up being news that I've already seen elsewhere, or random history facts that I don't really care about. I just don't know who its for.
I don’t use Mastodon, I tried it but Twitter was never for me and neither is Mastodon. I tried Lemmy, but my biggest annoyance isn’t even lack of content, I suppose, but the overall confusing...
I don’t use Mastodon, I tried it but Twitter was never for me and neither is Mastodon. I tried Lemmy, but my biggest annoyance isn’t even lack of content, I suppose, but the overall confusing nature of the platform.
I look at my feed, and there are like 4 different “communities” all under the same name, posting different content.
I don’t like the idea that just because I don’t browse every “tech” community available, I’m not seeing all of the posts. I’ll always be missing out.
Off-topic, but... As a moderator on Reddit, it always amuses me when someone says "Mods please delete this post if it's not allowed." Like I need permission to delete a rule-breaking post! :D
if not, please just delete the post
Off-topic, but...
As a moderator on Reddit, it always amuses me when someone says "Mods please delete this post if it's not allowed." Like I need permission to delete a rule-breaking post! :D
I think it'd be better to say something like "It's not clear to me if this breaks the rules, if it does please explain it to me so I can avoid it in the future"
I think it'd be better to say something like "It's not clear to me if this breaks the rules, if it does please explain it to me so I can avoid it in the future"
Lemmy (and the Fediverse as a whole) is a cool concept that I'm interested in watching. That said, a quick perusal of some of the top posts on
lemmy.worldright now show that there's a massive bot issue for which there's no good answer as of yet. There will likely not be a good answer in the foreseeable future.I was a little skeptical of Tildes when I first signed up, but after hanging around for a while and reading through the Tildes docs, I've come to realize that the community has a much deeper level of engagement than I've seen elsewhere (except for certain corners of Reddit). I thought it's centralization would work against it, but it's pretty clear that Tildes is very intentionally planned and well thought out.
Anyway, a bit of a ramble, but I just wanted to call that out for anyone else like me that thought they'd prefer less centralization and ended up being won over by Tildes.
I also still stick around in Tildes but this also happened with Digg exodus. With centralized alternatives you don't know what will happen when they get big enough, that's why I do use decentralized alternatives as well.
Agreed. I'm on lemmy, tildes, and mastodon right now, as 8ve been trying to kick reddit for a while even before this API nonsense. I'll just end up sticking to whatever ends up being the best place to be.
I'm not really familiar with the fediverse and lemmy in general. Is there just no moderation?
There's basically as much or as little moderation as you want. Unfortunately, with the way federation works, there's not much stopping instances that are infested with bots from contributing to any other instance until those instances are effectively blocked through defederation. It'd be more or less like playing a losing game of whack-a-mole.
One fix could be whitelisting, but that could impact smaller instances from being able to federate, defeating the purpose a bit.
Moderation is essentially identical to reddit, albeit with fewer (no?) third party tools built out. A lemmy community is for all intents and purposes the functional equivalent of a subreddit. The only difference is that instance admins always have full moderation powers over communities hosted on their instance and don't necessarily have the cultural taboo that reddit (used to) have against admins intervening in subreddit affairs.
Lemmy world is still on the older version due to .18 temporarily disabling captchas.
Not sure where you are seeing bot posts as the top content. Even browsing new, I'm not seeing a ton of it.
You're right, I wasn't very clear on that. It was the discussion of the bot issue that I was seeing. If you stay on
LocalorSubscribed, then you're safe, but if you go toAlleven after they re-enable captchas, there's not much stopping bot-infested instances from federating with and contributing to any instance, includinglemmy.world.Yep, that is certainly true. Needs to be a focus for admins to track down bot invested instances and either defederate or get the owner to clean them up. Was seeing an example of one that jumped 4k accounts in a week but had 2 active users.
Decentralization works only when there is a strong synchronicity and coordination among the nodes, it doesn't work when all nodes throw up their arms to some vague federal structure that nobody will be responsible for.
In other words, centralization is needed at some level even here to keep the adjacent tiers well oiled and working.
Another thing lacking in many of these upcoming social networks is lack of Effective Leadership.
Decentralization is not a substitute for good leadership, however some pundits may want you to believe otherwise. There is a growing mindset lately that some sort of "ordered anarchy" will take care of itself in the absence of leadership. As much as oxymoronic that term sounds, it's just never going to happen.
Every good product ever created had a good leadership backing it. It could be loud and grandiose (like Zuck's Facebook or Musk's SpaceX) or it could be silent and subtle (like Reddit all those years until spez happened!). Even tildes is an example of silent and behind the scenes leadership.
The important thing to understand is that things don't run by themselves. Maybe they will some day and Skynet like things will happen but right now ain't that century! Until that happens, we humble plebs or humans need to do our karma the old school way and keep building things and taking responsibilities.
I'm not an expert in release numbering, but I thought that v1.0 was the first public release, and anything numbered v.0... was a pre-release version. Does this mean that Lemmy is still officially pre-release (kind of like Tildes)?
Versioning doesn't really mean anything unless the creators give it some kind of specific meaning.
A popular way of versioning is Semantic Versioning where the
<major>.<minor>.<patch>changes are dictated by what actually changes for direct users of whatever you're making, though it usually only makes sense for software where the users are developers. Games for example often do a 1.0.0 release as their "this is the game we wanted to make, done".With projects like Lemmy it's likely more just a "here's the next goal we hit, version 0.18" and that's it. Similarly, Tildes doesn't even have a version number.
Yeah, as a developer I of course enjoy well-done semantic versioning, which usually means:
Even for non-library software I like this if it follows the above pattern, <breaking-change>.<new-or-changed-functionality>.<bugfix-with-no-functional-changes>.
The other one I can get behind is simple release-date+incremental versioning or something like it. Jetbrains for example releases versions as <year>.<release-number>.<patch-number>, like 2023.1 or 2022.3.2 or so. Very neat, plus it orders correctly when sorted, too.
Yes, and that's how I've been told versioning works: version 1.0 is the work done, software completed, good to go, ready to give to the public or customer.
I know Tildes doesn't have a version number. Nor, I believe, does Reddit. However, when you're doing continuous development, as Deimos seemed to have been doing before things slowed down, version numbering doesn't make sense.
But, if you're using version numbers, then they obviously mean something in your context. And, I thought "version 0.x" meant pre-release. You're probably right that "v0.18" means they've hit another goal. The "18" probably signifies that this is the 18th time they've reached that point of updating the software. But, I thought the "0" meant the software was still in testing or pre-release or something like that.
Obviously, Lemmy is being used out in the wild. But so is Tildes - and we know Tildes is nowhere near being a finished product. So I assume that Lemmy is in a similar situation, of not being finished or feature-complete or ready for a public release, but is still being used anyway.
Oh well. Some things will have to remain a mystery.
I vaguely remember the devs saying that it's not v1 because that implies the API being stable, and it's not so that's why it's still v0, but that was a while back and I can't find the comment
That makes sense, and it does tie into the idea that a v1 is a "final" "complete" release.
Thanks.
It can mean that, but it doesn't have to. That's just what 0.x means in SemVer (semantic versioning), which Bauke described above. But if you preferred, you could use a completely different versioning scheme. It can be based on the date like Ubuntu does (eg. Ubuntu 23.04), or you could use odd numbers for development and even numbers for stable releases (as Linux did before 2.6). You could also invent a completely new system. Minecraft had three different 1.0 releases, but they carried the labels Alpha and Beta before the full release (they also later joked about version 1.7.12.banana.Λ).
So 0.x and 1.x only matter if the versioning scheme they're using places importance on those numbers. SemVer does, and is a quite popular versioning scheme. But I think that's given some people the assumption that all version numbers work that way.
One thing that caught my attention is the emergence of a decent android mobile app (Jerboa) developed by a former Reddit 3rd party developer. Test drove it today and was pleasantly surprised at the usability. First time I've thought there might be a viable alternative to rif/sync.
Actually my biggest sentiment after trying it was how much I wish tildes had an equivalent in the app store. I really don't think there would be anything really drawing me to check in on reddit if we had an equivalent mobile interface here. Fingers crossed!
Looks like you haven't heard but LJ is actually working on Sync for Lemmy: https://safereddit.com/r/SyncforLemmy/comments/14ee1ul/sync_for_lemmy_is_happening/
A few similar projects are also gaining traction (Apollo-inspired, Infinity-inspired), that should give Lemmy a boost among the masses.
Also, RIF dev is working on a Tildes app.
I had not, but that's great news. I've been a relay for reddit user for quite a while now but loved both Sync and RIF. Really excited to hear RIF is developing a tildes app!
Here's the link to the announcement for that. Looks like we can expect an alpha release by October, or maybe September by the pace things are going. We've gone from 46 active donors to 353 in a little over a week.
Lemmy is cool, but seems… undercooked? It’s so messy, hard to figure out where content is coming from, who’s posting what on what instance, what instances you can and can’t access. It’s way too much for the average user, which means it’ll likely end up being just “tech” people like Mastodon.
Yeah I have a hard time finding actually interesting content on Mastodon as well. It just ends up being news that I've already seen elsewhere, or random history facts that I don't really care about. I just don't know who its for.
I don’t use Mastodon, I tried it but Twitter was never for me and neither is Mastodon. I tried Lemmy, but my biggest annoyance isn’t even lack of content, I suppose, but the overall confusing nature of the platform.
I look at my feed, and there are like 4 different “communities” all under the same name, posting different content.
I don’t like the idea that just because I don’t browse every “tech” community available, I’m not seeing all of the posts. I’ll always be missing out.
not sure if posting this is allowed. if not, please just delete the post
Off-topic, but...
As a moderator on Reddit, it always amuses me when someone says "Mods please delete this post if it's not allowed." Like I need permission to delete a rule-breaking post! :D
I think it’s a nice way of saying “I won’t be mad if you need to delete’.
Well if they don't give you permission first then you're a nazi-mod of course!
I think it'd be better to say something like "It's not clear to me if this breaks the rules, if it does please explain it to me so I can avoid it in the future"
As a casual reader of Tildes, your post is in the proper place (~tech) and you even added tags. IMHO it's great.