Each time that Beeper Mini goes ‘down’ or is made to be unreliable due to interference by Apple, Beeper’s credibility takes a hit. It’s unsustainable. As much as we want to fight for what we believe is a fantastic product that really should exist, the truth is that we can’t win a cat-and-mouse game with the largest company on earth.
With our latest software release, we believe we’ve created something that Apple can tolerate existing. We do not have any current plans to respond if this solution is knocked offline. The iMessage connection software that powers Beeper Mini and Beeper Cloud is now 100% open source (github.com/beeper/imessage). Anyone who wants can use it or continue development.
In the new year, we’re shifting focus back to our long-term goal of building the best chat app on earth.
It's a shame. Our best bet is that they work with someone to get a lawsuit/antitrust of some sort that helps legitimize this sort of adversarial interoperability. Remember when Google added...
It's a shame. Our best bet is that they work with someone to get a lawsuit/antitrust of some sort that helps legitimize this sort of adversarial interoperability.
It was fun while it lasted I guess. Did they honestly think Apple actually cares about privacy or wouldn't immediately try to put a stop to this? Every decision they make is with an eye on keeping...
It was fun while it lasted I guess. Did they honestly think Apple actually cares about privacy or wouldn't immediately try to put a stop to this? Every decision they make is with an eye on keeping people locked into their ecosystem. They are a company with one goal. The only way this changes is government regulation, like with USB-C.
Does apple not care about privacy? From adding end-to-end encryption to iMessage at a fairly early stage in the game, to refusing to help the FBI gain access to the captured iphone of the San...
Did they honestly think Apple actually cares about privacy
Does apple not care about privacy? From adding end-to-end encryption to iMessage at a fairly early stage in the game, to refusing to help the FBI gain access to the captured iphone of the San Bernardino shooter, to the recent decision to disable ad tracking in safari, it definitely seems like they care about privacy.
The only major thing I can think of is their plan to scan photos for child sexual assault material, which is controversial. It's on-device scanning, though, so it's not a traditional privacy issue.
What makes you feel that apple doesn't actually care about privacy? Or are you arguing that privacy is just a marketing tool?
Apple cares about promoting privacy in their closed ecosystem to keep people locked in. If they didn't believe it helped make them money I have no reason to believe they would care.
Apple cares about promoting privacy in their closed ecosystem to keep people locked in.
If they didn't believe it helped make them money I have no reason to believe they would care.
Doesn't that apply to literally every public company though? Even if we did trust a corporation (we shouldn't), their incentive to maintain that trust would have to be profit-motivated. Under...
Doesn't that apply to literally every public company though?
Even if we did trust a corporation (we shouldn't), their incentive to maintain that trust would have to be profit-motivated.
Under capitalism if we don't reward Apple's privacy positions when they make the right choices, they have no incentive to keep upholding them.
Sometimes locking Google and other data-brokers out is the goal. Given a complete lack of alternatives that offer even remotely close to the same experience, I'll happily pay to be locked-in to a privacy and quality focused ecosystem. That option simply doesn't exist in most other industries.
I see no other way my mother's data isn't going to be sold besides a massive corporation like Apple embracing privacy. She certainly won't be using GrapheneOS.
Apple can be very shitty, and may only have a "good side" because we're willing to pay for it, but if we stop paying for it and just say "Apple is a corporation and will likely eventually roll-back these privacy features anyway for profit", then that's exactly what they will have to do. We're all hostage under capitalism, but I'll take what I can get. Hopefully Apple's success with this strategy continue to inspire quality and privacy focused products in other industries that I will also happily pay more for.
I think the argument might be that Apple doesn't care about privacy between Apple and Android messaging. Which I don't think is really in scope for them, people have plenty of options if they are...
I think the argument might be that Apple doesn't care about privacy between Apple and Android messaging. Which I don't think is really in scope for them, people have plenty of options if they are concerned about using SMS.
Why shouldn't they? If you're the only Apple user in a circle of Android family, Apple has done nothing for your privacy. All they'd have to do is implement a common standard correctly. But that...
Why shouldn't they? If you're the only Apple user in a circle of Android family, Apple has done nothing for your privacy.
All they'd have to do is implement a common standard correctly. But that doesn't feed the closed ecosystem.
Different strokes, I guess. I haven’t met anyone who wasn’t on WhatsApp or Signal in years… Other than one set of grandparents but the other grandparents are on WhatsApp.
Different strokes, I guess. I haven’t met anyone who wasn’t on WhatsApp or Signal in years…
Other than one set of grandparents but the other grandparents are on WhatsApp.
In the US, parent crowd. I don't have either of those. I just use Discord for full-featured text/video chats. I use SMS for people I don't really know that well. Most the iPhone users just use...
In the US, parent crowd. I don't have either of those. I just use Discord for full-featured text/video chats. I use SMS for people I don't really know that well.
Most the iPhone users just use iMessage. Getting them to use anything else is like pulling teeth. And since Apple has such a large marketshare here....not having proper interop just puts me in the "fuck it, I didn't have anything important to say via text anyway" camp.
This news is really helping me move forwards my plans of buying a Mac Mini for just a project computer. Not that I just want it for iMessage, but I was also looking at it for doing some Plex stuff...
This news is really helping me move forwards my plans of buying a Mac Mini for just a project computer. Not that I just want it for iMessage, but I was also looking at it for doing some Plex stuff and also having a development computer for Swift. I was gonna get to it eventually but definitely upped it in prio a bit for me.
It's a shame. Our best bet is that they work with someone to get a lawsuit/antitrust of some sort that helps legitimize this sort of adversarial interoperability.
Remember when Google added support for AIM to chat? Adversarial interoperability
Here's a list of other clients that propped up which would now be considered illegal.
It was fun while it lasted I guess. Did they honestly think Apple actually cares about privacy or wouldn't immediately try to put a stop to this? Every decision they make is with an eye on keeping people locked into their ecosystem. They are a company with one goal. The only way this changes is government regulation, like with USB-C.
Does apple not care about privacy? From adding end-to-end encryption to iMessage at a fairly early stage in the game, to refusing to help the FBI gain access to the captured iphone of the San Bernardino shooter, to the recent decision to disable ad tracking in safari, it definitely seems like they care about privacy.
The only major thing I can think of is their plan to scan photos for child sexual assault material, which is controversial. It's on-device scanning, though, so it's not a traditional privacy issue.
What makes you feel that apple doesn't actually care about privacy? Or are you arguing that privacy is just a marketing tool?
Apple cares about promoting privacy in their closed ecosystem to keep people locked in.
If they didn't believe it helped make them money I have no reason to believe they would care.
Doesn't that apply to literally every public company though?
Even if we did trust a corporation (we shouldn't), their incentive to maintain that trust would have to be profit-motivated.
Under capitalism if we don't reward Apple's privacy positions when they make the right choices, they have no incentive to keep upholding them.
Sometimes locking Google and other data-brokers out is the goal. Given a complete lack of alternatives that offer even remotely close to the same experience, I'll happily pay to be locked-in to a privacy and quality focused ecosystem. That option simply doesn't exist in most other industries.
I see no other way my mother's data isn't going to be sold besides a massive corporation like Apple embracing privacy. She certainly won't be using GrapheneOS.
Apple can be very shitty, and may only have a "good side" because we're willing to pay for it, but if we stop paying for it and just say "Apple is a corporation and will likely eventually roll-back these privacy features anyway for profit", then that's exactly what they will have to do. We're all hostage under capitalism, but I'll take what I can get. Hopefully Apple's success with this strategy continue to inspire quality and privacy focused products in other industries that I will also happily pay more for.
I think the argument might be that Apple doesn't care about privacy between Apple and Android messaging. Which I don't think is really in scope for them, people have plenty of options if they are concerned about using SMS.
Why shouldn't they? If you're the only Apple user in a circle of Android family, Apple has done nothing for your privacy.
All they'd have to do is implement a common standard correctly. But that doesn't feed the closed ecosystem.
Maybe I just don’t get it, but who still sends text messages? Didn’t everyone migrate to Signal, WhatsApp, Kakao, Viber, etc. 5 or 10 years ago?
Not when you're meeting new people. SMS is the lowest common denominator.
Different strokes, I guess. I haven’t met anyone who wasn’t on WhatsApp or Signal in years…
Other than one set of grandparents but the other grandparents are on WhatsApp.
In the US, parent crowd. I don't have either of those. I just use Discord for full-featured text/video chats. I use SMS for people I don't really know that well.
Most the iPhone users just use iMessage. Getting them to use anything else is like pulling teeth. And since Apple has such a large marketshare here....not having proper interop just puts me in the "fuck it, I didn't have anything important to say via text anyway" camp.
This news is really helping me move forwards my plans of buying a Mac Mini for just a project computer. Not that I just want it for iMessage, but I was also looking at it for doing some Plex stuff and also having a development computer for Swift. I was gonna get to it eventually but definitely upped it in prio a bit for me.
It seems like this story has crossed over into the mainstream now, since there’s a front page story about it on the New York Tines.
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