Custom phone OS - long term opinions?
I am and have been on a bit of a quest to make my computing devices suck less.
Over the last few years I have migrated all of my laptops and desktops over to various Linux flavors. My experience with this process is that each flavor has their own quirks that need to be ironed out, but after getting things running there is little in the way of maintenance. Things kind of just work nowadays.
I have been looking into getting something like (but not necessarily) LineageOS on my phone. As I am looking into this and reading forums on the subject, it seems like a perpetual arms race between application developers and application users. One puts in a way to check for root, then there are root hiders, then there are root hider checkers, then there are root hiders that you build with custom names, etc.
I want my device to not suck.
I don’t want to be going in and fighting with my banking applications every time there is an update. I am totally willing to fight a painful setup once.
Is a custom phone OS something that is essentially only viable to use if you are driven by spite? Am I reading too much into the struggles that are posted in various forums? I am looking for any input for anyone that has used a custom OS short or long term.
GrapheneOS is great. You can check if your banking app is compatible with it here. Everything else has basically zero compatibility issues. The devs are very active and fix bugs very quickly, so it's really close to a stock Android experience, just more private and secure.
I would recommend against installing LineageOS if you want privacy or security - it has terrible security and the only "privacy" feature it has is not shipping Google Services by default, but you need to install microG to use half of the apps, which still uses proprietary google components while having significantly worse security.
I've also used LOS for a while and in my experience it sometimes managed to break things which are just stock AOSP features, not even LOS related. I didn't really have a great time using it.
The only reason to install LineageOS would be if you have an old phone that's no longer supported but you still want to use it - in that case LOS might be your only option. Otherwise you should use GOS or just stick to the stock OS.
I'll be switching to GrapheneOS soon (inherited a Pixel 4a from my partner), curious how you deal with the crappy default camera app. Have you jumped through the hoops required to get GCam working?
GrapheneOS has a custom camera app, which is pretty good, though obviously not as good as GCam, so I use that.
There are no hoops. GCam just works on GrapheneOS. You can even use it without having Sandboxed Google Play installed.
I don't know how well it's going to work on a Pixel 4a though - that device is end of life and no longer gets any GOS updates, only security fixes.
That's good to hear, maybe the stock camera will end up good enough for me. The 4a isn't necessarily for the long haul, I mostly want to try GrapheneOS while keeping a headphone jack and small-ish phone. I've been using a 2016 iPhone SE for the past 7 years, so modern phones are a huge size jump, and cut a lot of features, like the headphone jack and fingerprint reader, that I care about a lot. Trying to ease myself into the future without spending too much or doing too much in one leap.
That makes sense. Well, at least new Pixel phones promise 7 years of software updates, so you'll be able to use them for as long.
GrapheneOS sounds nice but it’s a bummer that they don’t provide updates for Pixels any longer than Google does. I understand why but it feels awful that my aging but perfectly functional 3XL is forever marooned on an old Android version with it.
So I’ve settled for Pixel Experience on that phone, which I’m sure has its share of issues compared to Graphene but at least for now gets me current Android.
Have you seen many issues beyond banking apps?
On GrapheneOS? No, as I said in my first paragraph, it works really well, with basically no issues. It can use regular Google Play Services but in a sandbox, so all apps work just fine while Google can't access what you don't allow it to access.
I know that it had some issues with Android Auto, but apparently the last release fixed that.
And obviously, none of the cool Google Pixel features that require deep system integration will work (eg. no automatic on-device music recognition), but I think that's expected when you're using a custom OS.
Generally, I don't even feel like I'm using a custom ROM, it feels just like normal Android
Thank you for the information, maybe this isn't quite as frustrating as it seemed!
I myself don't use banking apps so no idea about it, however things like Wise or Zen work on my LOS MicroG without Google account.
And it's convenient so far, I get monthly updates and no problems with it.
About security - afair compared to other custom ROMs (graphene, calyx, divestos) it gets android security updates with the longest delay. Also Kuketz blog made a comparison on these ROMs, where it's detailed.
It's not just about security updates, there are many other security-related issues with LOS. Unfortunately I don't really remember what they were. I don't think I learned about them in a single blog post, I just was a pretty active member of various privacy-related communities a while ago, and that stuff was frequently discussed there, but it was long enough ago for me to forget it. Maybe if I remember something I'll send you a link.
Yeah, sure. I'm not saying everyone will have a bad experience with it like I did. It's just that it is often marketed as a privacy/security OS, and it isn't really either of those things. But as I said, it may still be a good option if you have an old device or just want a more minimal ROM.
Edit: oh, wait, I totally forgot about DivestOS! You should definitely use that over LOS, IIRC it's just LOS but actually good.
If mobile banking is an absolute necessity for you then installing an OS isn’t really a viable option unfortunately. There’s a compatibility list that gets updated relatively frequently for GrapheneOS but it shows that some banking apps require some special set up just to get the apps running and functioning fully. You can find the list here: https://privsec.dev/posts/android/banking-applications-compatibility-with-grapheneos/
If these steps to get the apps working don’t seem like too much work, you could try out a custom ROM on your phone. Personally, I don’t think it’s really worth the hassle nowadays. With custom ROMs, you are relying entirely on a small team of volunteers (and in some cases, a single volunteer) to keep your phone’s software working, secure, and reliable. Things have certainly improved from when I last used a custom ROM (2017) but I imagine there will be always be issues. For example, while I had a custom ROM installed on my HTC One (m8), I couldn’t talk/text if the phone was connected to 4G data. It was only when I forced the phone to run on HSPA+ that I got talk/text working again. I remember submitting countless bug reports to LineageOS but I don’t know if that issue ever got resolved. Another ROM I was running (Resurrection Remix) had a cool system-wide theming engine which was fun until I tried to uninstall a theme I wasn’t using which somehow caused the System UI to corrupt and constantly crash and also took out my recovery in the process. Despite submitting bug reports, it was never a guarantee that my report would be looked at and resolved and with my phone always having something broken, I eventually gave up.
That is all very unfortunate to hear. I guess my next phone will just be an attempt to get as close to vanilla android as possible and declare this a fight not worth having for my current place in life.
I appreciate the input!
If you're trying to de-google this will be a terrible suggestion, but the Pixel phones are a very pure android experience. No bloatware.
Another +1 to a Pixel. Picked up a 7 Pro earlier this year and it's the smoothest Android experience I've had. Definitely missing some features coming from Samsung but I love how clean and simple the Pixel UI/UX is.
And what's even funnier, they're well supported by Grapheme OS custom rom.
Pixel devices are in fact the only devices officially supported by grapheneOS.
Does it only work on the 'a's for some reason? Or is that just your personal preference?
Pixel Experience is probably the most feature complete and polished OS I have used, but it doesn't support as many devices.
LineageOS is otherwise the best option.
I don't think there are any other ROMs out the fit your desires.
This thread was meant to be less of a ROM request and more of a discussion on how fiddly they are over the months/years and what general maintenance they require.
That being said, I had not looked into Pixel Experience before so I appreciate the shout out.
I used to install custom roms and root my Android phones, but I grew tired of the cat-and-mouse game that you describe.
I've since found that debloating a phone or tablet on its stock OS without rooting is sufficient for my phone-that-doesn't-suck needs. It's something that you can do on any modern-ish Android device where you can enable the developer tools and ADB debugging over USB.
The simplest tool I've found to automate that is the Universal Android Debloater, which supports Windows, Mac OS, and has a Linux Appimage as well. Essentially you enable ADB debugging on your phone, plug it into your computer, load up the UAD GUI, and it will scan your phone against lists of known bloatware/garbage applications and give you the ability to uninstall them all via a button click (or restore them if you change your mind later). It uses user-specific uninstalling over ADB so it can even get rid of system apps that normally can't be removed without rooting--technically the app is still on the phone but it's disabled for the default user account meaning for all intents and purposes it's not on the phone anymore.
I've done this with Moto, Samsung, and OnePlus devices and in each case it stripped the phone down to what felt pretty close to a clean AOSP install without any Google or manufacturer bloatware, while leaving essential things like location services and the Google Play store functional. You're still stuck with any UI or system modifications that the manufacturer baked into the OS, but at least in the case of the brands I mentioned that mostly boils down to cosmetic stuff. The biggest draw for me is you get a clean feeling device without having to mess with SafetyNet hacks because you're still running the unmodified stock ROM.
edit: I figured I'd mention that I take the debloating pretty far. For example I'll remove the Google messaging, dialer, and gallery apps and replace them by installing stuff like QKSMS, Simple Dialer, and Simple Gallery Pro from F-Droid so that my phone still functions as a phone. I also get rid of Google Maps, replacing it with something like OsmAnd--I guess my main point is even without rooting you can achieve a pretty clean and customized phone by using this debloating trick.
Thanks for the tip about the debloater, that looks very usefull. I would strongly recommend you to uninstall Simple Apps though! See this Tildes post.
Thanks for the heads up. I've only ever installed the F-Droid compiled versions, but I suppose going forward I'll look at some other alternatives.
It's been awhile since I went down this rabbithole, but IIRC if you don't root, you don't have as many problems.
I totally get the appeal of rooting (I too would like to take screenshots if I want to), but if you're looking to strike that balance of user empowerment and ease of use I'd try doing without.
That said, there's a lot of bad detection methods that will basically assume any non-stock android is malware.
I also generally won't install an app unless the website is utterly unusable with Firefox. So far almost none of my banking requires an app.
The only thing that gives me a constant headache on a non-stock device is Netflix. I just switched to piracy for the better offline experience anyhow.
I'm currently daily driving Lineage. Before that I used PixelExperience for about a year.
My banking apps work when I install and utilize shamiko (it's a magisk module). To be sure, I am much too paranoid to link my main bank account on a phone root or no, but I do link secondary accounts.
For me root is a requirement. I use it for stuff like acc, adaway, etc. I've been using rooted phones since 2008 and I don't plan to stop.
Tbh I install the gapps. No play store and and no services is too much of a hassle for me.
A custom rooted OS feels much nicer to me than any stock (esp. a bloated stock ROM drives me nuts). It is also much more customizable. I feel like I will always jump through the required hoops to work that way, the phone industry be damned.
I also hope that the Pinephone (or any other open platform) will one day become nice/compatible enough to use for most people, but that's utopic.
LineageOS user here. Basically I just can't use my bank's app without microG, which I won't enable because it needs a google account for notifications, and that's just against the whole point of degoogling.
Other than that everything works great. No other app has ever given me trouble, and having never had a smartphone with google services I just can't stand them on other peoples'. I mean why won't you let me uninstall the apps I don't need? I get that I have to keep the appstore, but why can't I remove YouTube or google meet? Because they want to keep you in their walled garden. Newpipe, Iceraven, aurora and F-droid is just the goat as far as phone apps and app stores go.
It's really just a shame that banking apps aren't more open to other types of notifications than just GoOgLe. I tried to call customer service for mine, complained for a few minutes and that's as far as it went. They're litteraly the only ones and they all do it.
Anyone got any experience using calyx os? It looks interesting but unsure about real world usage.