17
votes
Can noise canceling headphones be effective against non continuous noise such as music?
I already have the best ear muffers money can buy in my country, and it is still not enough. I cannot use ear plugs because of my tinnitus hearing aids. I'm in an area with a lot of noise and this is not going to change. The main issueI face is loud music. Could a noise canceling headphone provide some solace?
I've had a lot of experience blocking out sounds to help me sleep, and I've had many years of experience with tinnitus, but never have used tinnitus hearing aids.
In my case, the situation I was trying to solve was get to sleep in a neighborhood with noisy neighbors who played music late into the evening. The base thumps could be heard through my walls and it was very distracting.
The solution I came up was to use the best passive earplugs I could comfortably sleep with, coupled with a non-distracting, loud continuous droning noise generator that effectively masked the frequencies of the music. Without earplugs, the room was noisy but you couldn't hear the music distinctly. With the earplugs in, all sounds were reduced enough that I could sleep. If I used just the earplugs alone, after a few minutes my hearing would adjust and hear the faint sounds of music along with my tinnitus.
They key was to generate enough sound that masked both the music and the frequencies of my tinnitus. I found the best source was that was big air filter made by Holmes. It's quite large - about 25 inches by 25 inches by 8 inches. I tried all kinds of "white noise" machines but they did not effectively mask the low frequencies well. The best devices are ones which move a large amount of area. The best earplugs I found were made by 3M, the 1100 Foam Earplugs. you can buy a 200 pairs for $25 and I find I replace each pair every 3-4 weeks so it takes me a long time to go through them. I like them more than other foam earplugs because in order to create a good seal, you have to squish them down and shove them in your ear. Most foam earplugs expand way too quickly for you to have time to put them in your ear - the 3M 1100s expand slowly, giving you ample time to place them. They are also very comfortable and soft enough that I can roll my head onto the side with them in place and they do not hurt nor get dislodged.
I have also owned many noise-cancelling headphones and earbuds. They are largely ineffective for the task of blocking "interesting" or non-repetitive sounds like music or people talking, or sounds come on suddenly like sirens or car honks. At best they equal the sound deadening effects of great passive earplugs when it comes to non-repetitive sounds. I do enjoy them a lot for use on airplanes; the engine noise is a perfect match for noise-canceling headphone technology.
EDIT: Since V17's post made it clear I needed to clarify some points - the main reason I do not use active noise canceling devices is because alone they don't do enough to mask the distracting sounds. The over-the-hear (or on-the-ear) designs do not work well for how I sleep, which is on my side with one ear pressed into the pillow. The in-ear designs similarly do not work well for me in that way. I have to use some sort of passive, soft foam for my physical ears while sleeping, so that means I need to create distraction noise in some other way; hence the loud air filters.
I have a similar solution, except instead of a noise generator I have bone-conduction headphones (AfterShokz). You can wear both ear plugs and bone-conduction headphones, and I also bend the headphones to only cover one ear because I sleep on my side (they're very flexible, and they have a model that go on each ear separately).
A few tips that might be helpful for you or other people in a similar situation:
Since we're talking specifically about music with loud bass, these might not be the best. They attenuate a lot, but foam plugs in general are very frequency dependent and commonly attenuate high frequencies about 8x more than low frequencies.
Generally attenuating bass is a difficult problem, though it's still easier with earplugs than with earmuffs. I've had really good experience with Flare Isolate, a memory foam + aluminium core earplug that's sadly not sold anymore, likely because it attenuated so much it was not that useful outside of sleeping, and for sleeping it was uncomfortably shaped. But if I was in a situation where it was needed, I'd 100% at least try Flare's current aluminum sleeping earplugs because they seem to know what they're doing and the isolation of Isolate was ridiculous.
You should say which models specifically you used here because the difference in quality between brands and older and newer models is large. My experience with some of the newer and more expensive Sony models is that they are actually okay for speech as well - they block out the lower frequencies and leave out only the upper part of the spectrum, which is less intrusive than the full sound. And it can be easily blocked with earplugs.
Modern noise-cancelling headphones are generally pretty good at attenuating bass. I've never used them specifically in a situation like a neighbor with a loud subwoofer, but I do think it's always worth a try with a good quality model.
The specific models of noise-canceling headphones I have experience with are the Sony WH-1000XM3, the Bose Noise Cancelling Headphones 700 and the Bose QuietComfort Ultra Earbuds.
You are correct that foam earplugs when used alone are not the best for loud bass - that is why I use the large air-mass moving devices like the air filters. Unfortunately the best bass reducing active noise cancelling headphones are too large and heavy to wear while sleeping, especially if you roll onto your sides; none of the headphones or earbuds I have found work well when pressed into a pillow.
The point of the foam earplugs is just to reduce the total volume of noise to a level which makes it comfortable for sleeping. I need the physical noise makers in the room to create the masking necessary to ignore all of the extraneous sounds, including the tinnitus in my own head.
I currently own (and use) the Bose QuietComfort Ultra earbuds when traveling on airplanes, and they are very effective for that purpose, but I still hear speech quite clearly through them.
The most effective means of reducing noise and speech on an airplane is to use the 3M 1100 earplugs and then use an over-the-ear sound reducing headphones like the WH-1000XM3 or Bose 700s. I have also found that the much less expensive Anker Soundcore Q30s work very well when used in combination with the foam earplugs; they have equal low-frequency performance for where the earplugs do not work.
I’m amused. I do exactly the same thing. I use a giant Coway air filter (also because of allergies in old buildings), foam ear plugs, and I wear a gaiter like a hat so I can cover my bald head, hold in the earplugs, and cover my eyes. Open the window in the winter and burrow in to hibernate.
It’s elaborate, but there would have to be something major to wake me.
And as a side effect, your air is very clean now!
I use the Sony Link Buds S on the train to cancel out folks talking, and they do a pretty good job. I'd say it's at least a 70% reduction in background volume, possibly more. They also block out the guy in my office with a mechanical keyboard that he beats like it owes him money.
It should be noted that these are in-ears, so likely do not work due to OPs requirement. Having said that, the noise-cancelling on Sony products is indeed very good.
Good point, I should've been clearer about that. I mainly intended to say that noise canceling helps
Active noise-cancelling headphones can work quite well to reduce noise. Specifically, Sony and Bose do quite well there (personally, I can only vouch for Sony).
Having said that, they work best filtering out continuous noise. As far as music goes, it really depends on the sort of music, proximity, etc. For example, continuous bass through walls they might be able to filter out quite well. While more dynamic music in the same room provides some issues.
The same with talking, a mass of people talking gets filtered, no problem. Then the one person with a loud, distinct voice in that same mass of people might not be filtered at all, making them stand out more.
I have had instances in public transport where I turned off active noise-cancelling because of this.
One thing that stood out to me in your post
Active noise-cancelling is never going to be better than very good passive noise-cancelling. I also know from personal experience with much milder tinnitus that when it does flair up (mine is not always the same) I tend to be less able to ignore sounds that distract/annoy me more.
The way active noise-cancelling works also means there is sort of a "pressure" on your ears. In some headsets, sometimes even a very faint "hiss".
This can, for me, make prolonged use of active noise-cancelling a bit fatiguing.
I have the Bose ones and can vouch for them - I wear them whilst working from home and I don't hear my husband's music downstairs through them at all (granted, he's obviously never purposely playing music so loud that it'll disturb me, as I didn't marry an asshole of course :p).
The only sound that filters through a little, is really high pitched sounds. Like I'll hear something if my neighbour decides to vacuum, but since I always have music playing whilst I'm working it's not actually noticeable at all.
Specifically with earmuffs (OP's situation) this is incorrect. Earmuffs are very bad at attenuating bass and well made active noise cancelling is pretty good at it. I don't have a specific comparison, so I'm not saying noise cancelling is objectively better (they work differently, so it's tough to compare or measure) or which one is cheaper, but when dealing with bass I'm pretty sure there are situations where active noise cancelling is going to be more practical and also more comfortable.
My Sony Linkbuds S earbuds, which are only "good" ANC rather than great, are just as good as my 3M Peltor X4A (33dB) ear defenders for most things, and the Peltors are about the best money can buy (unless you're talking silly money). The Linkbuds easily outperform my Isotunes in-ear passive ear defenders too.
The ANC can't handle fast attack sounds like hammer strikes, or very loud noises like heavy/powerful machinery, but for a lot of situations cheap-ish consumer ANC is just as good as professional-grade passive protection.
I probably spend more time wearing my Linkbuds than I do my Peltors, and my hearing is pretty sensitive these days - too much noise for too long really sets off my tinnitus so I do have to be careful.
However, this is one of those things that's very personal. How your ears respond, and the sort of nosie you're exposed to, might mean completey different results.
Fair enough, this might indeed be personal as I'd say my experience is different. If I have to reason it out a bit more, I'd say that, to me, it comes down to ANC letting some things through fairly loudly. Where with passive noise-cancelling even if it can't remove the sound entirely, at the very least it will be reduced greatly.
I've been wondering the same thing. I used to work in a cafe, and it would block out noise except the music and I really wanted the music gone.
I didn't find noise cancelling headphones that blocked out music. So what I did was to play white noise on my noise cancelling headphones and that combination helped. The white noise also helped calm me down. So that was a good side effect for me.
That's basically what I do for everything now. I put on the noise cancelling headphones and play something to drown out the rest of the noise.
What do the tinnitus hearing aids do?
I swap my hearing aids for AirPods when listening to music. They won't last all day, but they do have noise cancelling. I can't really judge how well it works, though, because it's pretty quiet here.
Maybe they could be used in combination with the ear muffs? But I don't know if they would fit with the handle sticking out.
The hearing aid emits a sound similar to white noise into my both ears. Being without that continuous sound can be described as extremely uncomfortable to almost physical pain. I never remove them except to shower. I usually sleep with them as well. Replacing them would require another source of a similar frequency. It is not possible on Android to control the volume of each specific app. That makes it difficult for me to mix a helper frequency with other sounds I might wanna hear. I actually use the ear muffs over the hearing aids. Unfortunately its still not enough when party central is on full blast. I could make the white noise louder but then it gets too loud, which is grating in itself.
I’m not sure what white noise generator you use, but on iOS I use RainyMood to sleep (the app, not the website, although they’re by the same people) and it has individual volume sliders and toggles for the rain elements. For example, I have the rain sound about 60%, thunder about 40%, and bird chirps toggled off.
I can play music (or a podcast) through Spotify at the same time, and they don’t seem to conflict or switch each other off or clash. I think the rainymood isn’t set up as “music” because the media controls don’t allow me to pause rainymood from the Lock Screen, but it can keep playing even when I switch to other apps or lock the phone.
It seems that Android is fundamentally incapable of providing multiple volume sliders for anything every slider is global. I could look into it again but IDK. Apple products are priced like cars in my country, they're not something I can or would buy.
This is not true.
The app just has to have its internal sound mixer, and some sound generators do. The problem is that since most other apps rely solely on global volume control, when you want to lower the volume of Spotify or Youtube, you also lower the volume of the sound generating app (which is logical, you don't want apps completely bypassing the main sound mixer). But you do trivially get the noise/rain app playing at say 10% of (global) Spotify volume.
I just tried this app to confirm it.
You can control individual app volume on Android with Samsung Sound Assistant. It's on the Galaxy store, there's apk downloads available elsewhere, but I'm not sure if those work on non-samsung Androids or not. There also appear to be solutions for rooted Androids.
tbh I just play my own music over background music when I don't want to hear my environment. Assuming you're ok with not hearing anything around you, that's what I'd recommend (or maybe white noise or something if you don't like the idea of music)
Both my Sony and Sennheiser noise cancelling devices (the Sony's are in-ear, the Sennheisers over-ear) do a great job at reducing non-continuous noise, including music and speech. They do work best with continuous noise like engine sounds but that doesn't mean they don't help with other noise.
From everything I've read, Bose are the best for noise cancelling if that's your main goal. My priorities are sound quality though.
This used to be the case years ago, but afaik they did not manage to innovate as well as Sony for example, so at the least I don't think the difference is as clear now.
The only people I go to for headphone reviews are What Hi-Fi, and they still consistently rate Bose over everyone else for noise cancelling. Sony usually win overall "best" awards because they tend to do sound quality better, but Bose are still class-leading for noise cancelling. This review has their latest cans edging out Sony's best for ANC. Although you do pay for it, of course.
I can't speak for headphones, but as someone who knows a bit about sound reproduction (I've designed and built loudspeakers commercially for a bit), their loudspeaker reviews are often completely useless and at odds with measurable facts, so personally I'd be careful when heeding their recommendations regarding headphones as well.
I do take that as a sign that Bose might have innovated as well and my information is outdated, that is quite possible, but don't take What Hifi's word for it.
Well, the What Hi-Fi people are audiophiles. So obviously you can't take them too seriously. It's a bonkers industry, I used to sell hi-fi and the stuff people spent insane amounts of money on that couldn't possibly do anything blew my mind. A friend of my Dad's makes a "mains cleaner" device which is literally just a few capacitors in a box with an LED on it and sells them for thousands. He won a What Hi-Fi gold award for something he will happily tell you doesn't do a single damn thing.
But What Hi-Fi are at least independent, and consistent, and for my ears what they say is good is usually good. So every five years or so when I need some new headphones, they remain my go-to.
Speakers I can just go and listen to and make my own mind up, but they don't let you try on the earbuds in the shop - even if you did used to work there!
I was out last night in Bangkok with xm4's on. Took them off for a second only to realize the truck in front of me was literally just 100 speakers on wheels (it's the water holiday this weekend and people were partying harder than usual). I had no idea it was there. They were working amazingly.
Can you share a bit more info?
If the noise is late at night and disturbing your sleep, most countries have laws around this and you could ask the police to tell them to stop.
As mentioned by creesch, some people can "hear" the noise cancelling as a pressure or hiss in their ears. I'm one of them so I don't use it - I'd recommend going to an audio shop and trying out a few pairs to make sure this doesn't affect you.
The best noise cancelling headphones I know are the Sony XM4's, Bose QuietComfort and Apple Airpods Max.
What ear defenders do you use? 3M Peltors have a rating of 35dB which is about the best you're going to get from passive sets.
It is unfortunately completely impossible to compell law enforcement to care about this in my country regardless of any law that might exist to aid me in that situation. I've tried. I would have to sue multiple parties, and the most likely consequence for an expensive and extenuating process would be for them to sell their businesses to someone who would resume with the same law breaking behavior.
There are numerous other advantages to live where I currently am and selling at current values would lead to a significant downgrade. Which is particularly complicated having 3 dogs and a baby. Going to a smaller place would be a significant source of stress.
Thank you for the advice.
That sounds very frustrating. I've recently had to put up with roadworks at 2am for 3 weeks and there was nothing I could do. I could feel the machines shaking my bed.
Fingers crossed you find a solution!
Can you not file a complaint with the appropriate authorities (landlord, local law enforcement)? Anonymously, if you fear retribution.