Thats a bummer. The 16 inch model doesn't interest me at all, but I really want framework to succeed as a whole. It would be one thing if the 16 was expensive and good OR cheap and bad... but it...
Thats a bummer. The 16 inch model doesn't interest me at all, but I really want framework to succeed as a whole.
It would be one thing if the 16 was expensive and good OR cheap and bad... but it seems to be expensive and bad.
I have a Framework 16, and for all its flaws, I'm still happy to have it. I bought mine without a graphics cards, and so I never had the software issues The Verge had. The tolerances on my input...
I have a Framework 16, and for all its flaws, I'm still happy to have it. I bought mine without a graphics cards, and so I never had the software issues The Verge had. The tolerances on my input modules are a bit off leading to the same visual edges problem, but the keyboard is fine to type on. The heat for me isn't anything I hadn't experienced with prior laptops, and same for the fan noise levels. It has the same Windows Modern Standby issues as any other recent laptops, unfortunately 🙃.
Once or twice I noticed the washed out color issue, and I do appreciate this article for that fix as well.
That said, I'm passionate about right to repair, and choosing framework also let me get a laptop with clear keycaps to try out without needing to fully commit. My laptop is unique and amazing; totally worth the early adapter upcharge.
My sister has had the Framework 16 for about 2 months now, and it has been absolutely flawless. She has no dGPU in hers, which saves a bunch of potential issues. She hasn’t told me of any of the...
My sister has had the Framework 16 for about 2 months now, and it has been absolutely flawless. She has no dGPU in hers, which saves a bunch of potential issues. She hasn’t told me of any of the issues mentioned in the article. I even checked out the keyboard module gaps, flex, etc when she got it. If you expect the tolerances of a unibody MacBook, you are going to be disappointed, but you shouldn’t be expecting that from a modular laptop. The only reason I haven’t ordered one is that I am hopelessly in love with macOS, and so I’m stuck on MacBooks.
Good and bad are relative. It got a 6/10 and a final recommendation not to buy. If you browser through other Verge reviews, the original 5/10 score for a laptop is pretty bad:...
Good and bad are relative. It got a 6/10 and a final recommendation not to buy.
But I’m reviewing a laptop, not a crowdfunding campaign for a generation of laptops, and I’d personally wait for a future revision of the Framework Laptop 16.
If you browser through other Verge reviews, the original 5/10 score for a laptop is pretty bad: https://www.theverge.com/laptop-review. It got the same score as the "Vivobook 15".
Which I think is fair; at this point, most companies have the basics of making laptops down at this point. It's hard to balance in the value of novelty and vision, which is really what distinguishes the framework, when it ultimately falls flat in many table-stakes areas.
Yes. The flaws and things they have to look past/gloss over to even get it to 6/10 are things that no normal consumer will ever accept in a laptop. This will only sell to people who are techies...
Yes. The flaws and things they have to look past/gloss over to even get it to 6/10 are things that no normal consumer will ever accept in a laptop. This will only sell to people who are techies that are ok with having to constantly fidget with pieces, plugging things in and out over and over again, and restarting here and there. That definitely makes it bad.
I am basing my own assessment of "bad" on some other reviews as well as this one, and 5/10 or 6/10 sounds like a bad score to me. I'm also not a fan of bigger or performance laptops so I have a...
I am basing my own assessment of "bad" on some other reviews as well as this one, and 5/10 or 6/10 sounds like a bad score to me.
I'm also not a fan of bigger or performance laptops so I have a much harder time looking past its flaws.
I do hope they stick with it though because the 13 looks very good and the concept they're going with for the 16 is very good as well and definitely worth spending extra on.
My kid has had the Framework 16 for about four months now. He loves it. It was built for someone like him. Yeah, the fan is loud, it gets hot, but when he is gaming at home that doesn't really...
My kid has had the Framework 16 for about four months now.
He loves it.
It was built for someone like him.
Yeah, the fan is loud, it gets hot, but when he is gaming at home that doesn't really matter, as he has his headphones on.
I can't stand the spacers when typing, but the laptop isn't for me to type on, it's for my kid to game with, and my kid loved adding the (completely useless IMHO) RGB keypad.
I just found an interesting note on Reddit from the Framework team explaining why the first laptop sent to reviewers was poor quality. Basically they sent pre-production units to reviewers. That second laptop the reviewer received is more indicative of production quality.
Overall the Framework better than half the laptops I owned. It is better than the Gateway & Sony, worse than the Macbook or Thinkpad circa 2000-2010.
I would still buy it again in a heart beat, because for a kid, repairability is a number one priority. I used to be able to repair the Macbook. I can't any more.
I also love that it can be upgraded by switching out components. It is cheaper and less hassle, because you can get a new CPU or GPU without having to reinstall from scratch.
That said, it depends on the user. If it were me, I would want to reinstall windows from scratch. Windows performs best if you reinstall it every year or two. But for my kid? He doesn't know where he has saved all his files that he will want to keep. Hardware upgradeability is key.
I don't have and don't want the 16 though I would buy the 13 if they actually deigned to sell it to me. The quality issues in sw and hw are unfortunate but it is probably inevitable with a product...
I don't have and don't want the 16 though I would buy the 13 if they actually deigned to sell it to me.
The quality issues in sw and hw are unfortunate but it is probably inevitable with a product such as this and most problematic are tied to the dGPU which is entirely optional.
Early adopter tax is usually very severe in tech and can manifest as either quality problems, or in price(here it seems it is a bit of both which is unfortunate but modular laptop is a massive undertaking only dwarfed but the likes of making non-Android smartphone). In the end it simply depends on the customer if they want to support the idea behind the product.
It's not like I don't have problems with how they do things. From their entirely abysmal shipping policy to the fact that this would be an excellent product to make Linux a first class citizen instead of, hey it works. Though in the end it would seem generally better if they succeeded than not given the horrible state of repair and upgrade possibilities of mainstream manufacturers among others.
What do you mean treating Linux as a first class citizen? The only way I can see it not be is that they don't provide it pre-installed. But I suspect that the majority of Linux users would prefer...
What do you mean treating Linux as a first class citizen? The only way I can see it not be is that they don't provide it pre-installed. But I suspect that the majority of Linux users would prefer to install a distro of their choice anyway.
Framework offers full support on Ubuntu or Fedora. They ensure their hardware all has Linux drivers, provide pre-release hardware for testing, and recently started offering an English keyboard with a super key. What are they missing for you to call their support first class?
I'm with you on the shipping cost sucking, but that's a thing from any small / niche company that isn't subsiziding shipping costs. I tried to order a bath robe and the shipping was $25!
Exactly that there is no option to have it preinstalled. Maybe it is not a big deal and people inclined to both order a framework laptop and run Linux on it have no problem to do it themselves but...
Exactly that there is no option to have it preinstalled. Maybe it is not a big deal and people inclined to both order a framework laptop and run Linux on it have no problem to do it themselves but maybe it would mean more people would be willing to order it like that.
There is a difference in perception between the possibility of running the os(even with good support) and having it officially be an option during checkout. It would probably not do much as framework is not a mainstream manufacturer but it would be something.
I've had my framework 16 for a couple of months, and I think a lot of this comes down to how you use it. I'm used to a MacBook pro, so this feels clunkier and lego-y. The lego feel is the point of...
I've had my framework 16 for a couple of months, and I think a lot of this comes down to how you use it.
I'm used to a MacBook pro, so this feels clunkier and lego-y. The lego feel is the point of the laptop, so that was hardly unexpected. I do miss the round corners on my MacBook because it made it easier to get into and out of my backpack. I can't fit the framework in the laptop slot of my backpack at all, but it fits fine in the main compartment.
I love the keyboard I got, clear blank caps. I was going around having other people try it out when I first got it. This is the most comfortable keyboard I've ever had on a laptop, ever.
My laptop is usually on a stand next to my big monitor. I only really use it as a laptop if I want to sit outside or if I'm traveling. I can't comfortably type on any non split keyboard for any real amount of time, but a split is something I don't ever expect to find on a laptop. This is why I got a small one to cart around when I need it.
I was excited to install the keyboard on the right and the keyboard on the left, but that configuration unfortunately doesn't work. What I ended up with is still less awkward for my left handed trackpad use than other standard laptops, so I can certainly live with it.
My only real disappointment is that the first two os's I put on it didn't work at all - Debian and Pop!. I'm perfectly capable of using Ubuntu, just wanted to try something a little different.
I got a Framework laptop. I mostly use it to go to coffee shops and work on papers there. I tend to use my desktop computer at home. So I cant speak to its functionality as a gaming pc or...
I got a Framework laptop. I mostly use it to go to coffee shops and work on papers there. I tend to use my desktop computer at home.
So I cant speak to its functionality as a gaming pc or anything, but I like it as a word processing laptop.
My only complaint is that I installed Mint on it, and I feel like the startup time is slower than I feel like it should be. My other linux computers all seem to boot faster than this laptop. Its just a couple extra seconds, but I just thought Id mention it.
Thats a bummer. The 16 inch model doesn't interest me at all, but I really want framework to succeed as a whole.
It would be one thing if the 16 was expensive and good OR cheap and bad... but it seems to be expensive and bad.
I have a Framework 16, and for all its flaws, I'm still happy to have it. I bought mine without a graphics cards, and so I never had the software issues The Verge had. The tolerances on my input modules are a bit off leading to the same visual edges problem, but the keyboard is fine to type on. The heat for me isn't anything I hadn't experienced with prior laptops, and same for the fan noise levels. It has the same Windows Modern Standby issues as any other recent laptops, unfortunately 🙃.
Once or twice I noticed the washed out color issue, and I do appreciate this article for that fix as well.
That said, I'm passionate about right to repair, and choosing framework also let me get a laptop with clear keycaps to try out without needing to fully commit. My laptop is unique and amazing; totally worth the early adapter upcharge.
My sister has had the Framework 16 for about 2 months now, and it has been absolutely flawless. She has no dGPU in hers, which saves a bunch of potential issues. She hasn’t told me of any of the issues mentioned in the article. I even checked out the keyboard module gaps, flex, etc when she got it. If you expect the tolerances of a unibody MacBook, you are going to be disappointed, but you shouldn’t be expecting that from a modular laptop. The only reason I haven’t ordered one is that I am hopelessly in love with macOS, and so I’m stuck on MacBooks.
They gave it a score of "good with flaws" and from that you deduce it's... Bad?
Good and bad are relative. It got a 6/10 and a final recommendation not to buy.
If you browser through other Verge reviews, the original 5/10 score for a laptop is pretty bad: https://www.theverge.com/laptop-review. It got the same score as the "Vivobook 15".
Which I think is fair; at this point, most companies have the basics of making laptops down at this point. It's hard to balance in the value of novelty and vision, which is really what distinguishes the framework, when it ultimately falls flat in many table-stakes areas.
Yes. The flaws and things they have to look past/gloss over to even get it to 6/10 are things that no normal consumer will ever accept in a laptop. This will only sell to people who are techies that are ok with having to constantly fidget with pieces, plugging things in and out over and over again, and restarting here and there. That definitely makes it bad.
I am basing my own assessment of "bad" on some other reviews as well as this one, and 5/10 or 6/10 sounds like a bad score to me.
I'm also not a fan of bigger or performance laptops so I have a much harder time looking past its flaws.
I do hope they stick with it though because the 13 looks very good and the concept they're going with for the 16 is very good as well and definitely worth spending extra on.
I’ve bought three frameworks for business and all have been better than the dells and Lenovos they replaced. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
My kid has had the Framework 16 for about four months now.
He loves it.
It was built for someone like him.
Yeah, the fan is loud, it gets hot, but when he is gaming at home that doesn't really matter, as he has his headphones on.
I can't stand the spacers when typing, but the laptop isn't for me to type on, it's for my kid to game with, and my kid loved adding the (completely useless IMHO) RGB keypad.
I just found an interesting note on Reddit from the Framework team explaining why the first laptop sent to reviewers was poor quality. Basically they sent pre-production units to reviewers. That second laptop the reviewer received is more indicative of production quality.
Overall the Framework better than half the laptops I owned. It is better than the Gateway & Sony, worse than the Macbook or Thinkpad circa 2000-2010.
I would still buy it again in a heart beat, because for a kid, repairability is a number one priority. I used to be able to repair the Macbook. I can't any more.
I also love that it can be upgraded by switching out components. It is cheaper and less hassle, because you can get a new CPU or GPU without having to reinstall from scratch.
That said, it depends on the user. If it were me, I would want to reinstall windows from scratch. Windows performs best if you reinstall it every year or two. But for my kid? He doesn't know where he has saved all his files that he will want to keep. Hardware upgradeability is key.
Just FYI, for whenever your kid does need to move to a new Windows install, check out a program called Game Save Manager.
I don't have and don't want the 16 though I would buy the 13 if they actually deigned to sell it to me.
The quality issues in sw and hw are unfortunate but it is probably inevitable with a product such as this and most problematic are tied to the dGPU which is entirely optional.
Early adopter tax is usually very severe in tech and can manifest as either quality problems, or in price(here it seems it is a bit of both which is unfortunate but modular laptop is a massive undertaking only dwarfed but the likes of making non-Android smartphone). In the end it simply depends on the customer if they want to support the idea behind the product.
It's not like I don't have problems with how they do things. From their entirely abysmal shipping policy to the fact that this would be an excellent product to make Linux a first class citizen instead of, hey it works. Though in the end it would seem generally better if they succeeded than not given the horrible state of repair and upgrade possibilities of mainstream manufacturers among others.
What do you mean treating Linux as a first class citizen? The only way I can see it not be is that they don't provide it pre-installed. But I suspect that the majority of Linux users would prefer to install a distro of their choice anyway.
Framework offers full support on Ubuntu or Fedora. They ensure their hardware all has Linux drivers, provide pre-release hardware for testing, and recently started offering an English keyboard with a super key. What are they missing for you to call their support first class?
https://frame.work/linux
I'm with you on the shipping cost sucking, but that's a thing from any small / niche company that isn't subsiziding shipping costs. I tried to order a bath robe and the shipping was $25!
Exactly that there is no option to have it preinstalled. Maybe it is not a big deal and people inclined to both order a framework laptop and run Linux on it have no problem to do it themselves but maybe it would mean more people would be willing to order it like that.
There is a difference in perception between the possibility of running the os(even with good support) and having it officially be an option during checkout. It would probably not do much as framework is not a mainstream manufacturer but it would be something.
I've had my framework 16 for a couple of months, and I think a lot of this comes down to how you use it.
I'm used to a MacBook pro, so this feels clunkier and lego-y. The lego feel is the point of the laptop, so that was hardly unexpected. I do miss the round corners on my MacBook because it made it easier to get into and out of my backpack. I can't fit the framework in the laptop slot of my backpack at all, but it fits fine in the main compartment.
I love the keyboard I got, clear blank caps. I was going around having other people try it out when I first got it. This is the most comfortable keyboard I've ever had on a laptop, ever.
My laptop is usually on a stand next to my big monitor. I only really use it as a laptop if I want to sit outside or if I'm traveling. I can't comfortably type on any non split keyboard for any real amount of time, but a split is something I don't ever expect to find on a laptop. This is why I got a small one to cart around when I need it.
I was excited to install the keyboard on the right and the keyboard on the left, but that configuration unfortunately doesn't work. What I ended up with is still less awkward for my left handed trackpad use than other standard laptops, so I can certainly live with it.
My only real disappointment is that the first two os's I put on it didn't work at all - Debian and Pop!. I'm perfectly capable of using Ubuntu, just wanted to try something a little different.
I got a Framework laptop. I mostly use it to go to coffee shops and work on papers there. I tend to use my desktop computer at home.
So I cant speak to its functionality as a gaming pc or anything, but I like it as a word processing laptop.
My only complaint is that I installed Mint on it, and I feel like the startup time is slower than I feel like it should be. My other linux computers all seem to boot faster than this laptop. Its just a couple extra seconds, but I just thought Id mention it.