42 votes

Los Angeles police department warns residents after spike in burglaries using Wi-Fi jammers that disable security cameras, smart doorbells

17 comments

  1. [8]
    ButteredToast
    Link
    As the article suggests, definitely a good argument for setting up doorbells, cameras, etc on ethernet, which is going to be pretty tamper-proof. I wonder if these jammers also work on Z-wave,...

    As the article suggests, definitely a good argument for setting up doorbells, cameras, etc on ethernet, which is going to be pretty tamper-proof.

    I wonder if these jammers also work on Z-wave, Zigbee, etc.

    23 votes
    1. Sodliddesu
      Link Parent
      A proper jammer could easily hit the 800mhz that Z-wave and ZigBee are down on but that would depend on the thief knowing ahead of time what you're using or just even knowing that there are...

      A proper jammer could easily hit the 800mhz that Z-wave and ZigBee are down on but that would depend on the thief knowing ahead of time what you're using or just even knowing that there are multiple standards and such.

      Short answer, yeah, they can be jammed. You can get something that hits 433mhz - 5Ghz on Alibaba for $50. Not sure what kind of setup they're running though.

      14 votes
    2. [6]
      pete_the_paper_boat
      Link Parent
      I'm actually rather surprised to hear PoE (Power over Ethernet) isn't standard for all of those applications.

      I'm actually rather surprised to hear PoE (Power over Ethernet) isn't standard for all of those applications.

      8 votes
      1. [4]
        DeaconBlue
        Link Parent
        These applications are not selling security. They are selling either: Security theater A convenient function to see who is at the door from your phone They are not designed to be used for actual...

        These applications are not selling security. They are selling either:

        • Security theater
        • A convenient function to see who is at the door from your phone

        They are not designed to be used for actual home security. The person that has actual threats against them (politicians, activists) is not relying on a plug and play Ring doorbell.

        That isn't to say that the products are useless. They work fine for their intended purpose. They just aren't designed to be attacked. Most of our "security" measures work this way. A solid kick would get through most front doors or windows, but they still have locks on the handles.

        34 votes
        1. [2]
          BeardyHat
          Link Parent
          To your point, do these do much of anything? It's my impression that security cameras, Rings, etc can record crime and get it posted to nextdoor, but does anything actually come of it? I saw it...

          To your point, do these do much of anything? It's my impression that security cameras, Rings, etc can record crime and get it posted to nextdoor, but does anything actually come of it? I saw it effective once so far, when a yard sign was stolen by a drunk neighbor, but that's about it.

          Even when the cops have perfect information, they're rare to act on it. I've been burgled twice in the distance past, the cops had a car make and model, license plate in one and knew the preparator in the other, but nothing came of either. In either case, my insurance company was more useful than the police.

          8 votes
          1. Grumble4681
            Link Parent
            I'm sure it varies by region and the departments over them, but police definitely use them when a violent crime occurs, so one could see it as a benefit to the community. I previously worked for a...

            I'm sure it varies by region and the departments over them, but police definitely use them when a violent crime occurs, so one could see it as a benefit to the community. I previously worked for a company that installed security and surveillance systems and one time I had to go to court as a witness, mostly as a chain of evidence thing, for footage that they were using in a murder case. The police department did use footage for some property crimes but I suspect they weren't going hard on the investigative side, and it may have depended on who the victim was (rich neighborhoods vs average etc.).

            Also sometimes I've encountered situations where people can make use of the footage to bring about a resolution that doesn't require police. Mostly for civil litigation like neighbors causing damages or such.

            The other aspect of it is that they're fairly decent at pairing with a security system for people who like having a security system anyhow. It's sort of a given with security systems that people are going to get a false alarm eventually, whether it be faulty hardware or unpredictable environments etc. and if it happens when that person isn't home, it's common to be concerned about whether it truly was a false alarm or not. It might be a pet that set off the motion detector, or maybe someone came in through a window, one is significantly more likely than the other but if you aren't there to see it yourself, it can be worrying to not know for sure. It's actually one of the downsides of just a standalone security system, people get complacent about them because 99% of the time nothing happens, and the 1% that it does, you assume it's nothing and just a false alarm, but then the time that something does happen it gets disregarded initially because it's easier to assume it's not something actually happening than it is to go check it out and verify if it was something going on.

            Another big one that I saw systems installed for were breakups/divorces where the ex was making threats or in some way trying to retaliate. Probably helps with divorce courts or restraining orders and maybe just deters an ex from becoming a stalker if they know they're going to get seen lurking around.

            5 votes
        2. Thrabalen
          Link Parent
          To expand on this, we have a four camera setup in our home. Two of these cameras watch the front of the house (one looking up the street one way, one the other), on watches the cooking area (it's...

          To expand on this, we have a four camera setup in our home. Two of these cameras watch the front of the house (one looking up the street one way, one the other), on watches the cooking area (it's useful when using appliances with a non-determined cooking timer, such as pressure cookers), and one watches the laundry and dishwashing.

          The two outward facing cameras in the front could be considered security, but they're, in my mind, an extension of the front windows... they give me (a homebody) a view of and connection to the neighborhood. When expecting deliveries (I get my groceries delivered in addition to any internet shopping), they're especially useful.

          Three of these cameras are wired to a router, one is wifi. Guess which one has to be reset periodically?

          6 votes
      2. ButteredToast
        Link Parent
        It is for business and commercial usage, but in homes, wireless is popular because a lot of houses aren’t even wired for ethernet, much less have PoE capable routers installed. Most renters also...

        It is for business and commercial usage, but in homes, wireless is popular because a lot of houses aren’t even wired for ethernet, much less have PoE capable routers installed. Most renters also can’t change that even if they want to, and where hiring a specialist is best for installing PoE equipment for most people, just about anybody can get battery powered wireless devices set up and running.

        And so wireless devices proliferate, despite their shortcomings.

        9 votes
  2. [5]
    cmccabe
    Link
    Are there devices for platforms like Home Assistant that will sound an alarm when wifi signal jamming is detected? Does wifi jamming even produce a distinct fingerprint?

    Are there devices for platforms like Home Assistant that will sound an alarm when wifi signal jamming is detected? Does wifi jamming even produce a distinct fingerprint?

    6 votes
    1. JXM
      Link Parent
      You could rig something up in HA that would alert you if a device lost its connection, but you would probably want to disable it within a few days after the number of false positives from normal...

      You could rig something up in HA that would alert you if a device lost its connection, but you would probably want to disable it within a few days after the number of false positives from normal signal dropout or power saving timeouts on the devices.

      5 votes
    2. DefinitelyNotAFae
      (edited )
      Link Parent
      I have a Nest doorbell waiting to install but the Blink one on my house does notify me if it goes offline. I don't really pay attention to those notifications which is one reason I want to switch...

      I have a Nest doorbell waiting to install but the Blink one on my house does notify me if it goes offline. I don't really pay attention to those notifications which is one reason I want to switch to the Google version (as that's my ecosystem)

      ETA: So I don't know that it would know if it was jammed, but it should know if it can't communicate.

      3 votes
    3. SunSpotter
      Link Parent
      I wonder if you could just set up a deadman’s switch? Just rig the alarm to go off if one or more cameras can’t be reached.

      I wonder if you could just set up a deadman’s switch? Just rig the alarm to go off if one or more cameras can’t be reached.

      1 vote
    4. mordae
      Link Parent
      RSSI will increase significantly with wideband jamming. If you sniff WiFi traffic, detect increased RSSI and do not really see any valid packets, you are most probably being jammed. There is not...

      RSSI will increase significantly with wideband jamming. If you sniff WiFi traffic, detect increased RSSI and do not really see any valid packets, you are most probably being jammed.

      There is not real fingerprint, though. Well unless the jammer does something more complicated than simple white noise.

  3. [4]
    ThrowdoBaggins
    Link
    I guess if it works then it works, but isn’t signal jamming like a federal offence or something? All fun and games if you don’t get caught, but I feel like going from burglary to signal jamming is...

    I guess if it works then it works, but isn’t signal jamming like a federal offence or something? All fun and games if you don’t get caught, but I feel like going from burglary to signal jamming is a huge step up in severity?

    4 votes
    1. [3]
      DeaconBlue
      Link Parent
      I have lived in enough dense housing situations to know that microwave ovens are more than enough to jam 2.4GHz wifi for a reasonable radius, and people aren't getting arrested for jamming their...

      I have lived in enough dense housing situations to know that microwave ovens are more than enough to jam 2.4GHz wifi for a reasonable radius, and people aren't getting arrested for jamming their neighbors wifi. Actually being charged for that seems unlikely to me when you have an easy burglary charge to shoot for.

      1. cfabbro
        (edited )
        Link Parent
        Intent tends to matter a lot in the law. So of course nobody is getting arrested for inadvertently "jamming" their neighbors' wifi when they use their microwave oven. But that doesn't mean laws...

        Intent tends to matter a lot in the law. So of course nobody is getting arrested for inadvertently "jamming" their neighbors' wifi when they use their microwave oven. But that doesn't mean laws related to intentional jamming for malicious purposes aren't or will never be applied when actually appropriate. And if one of these burglars who is now known to be using a wifi jammer gets caught, I strongly suspect that extra offenses related to signal jamming will get added to their charges, just to make an example of them.

        p.s. Relevant link, @ThrowdoBaggins, since you asked if it's a federal offense:
        FCC CONSUMER ALERT: Using or Importing Jammers is Illegal

        CONSUMER ALERT

        • Illegal to Operate Jammers in the U.S. Unless you are an authorized federal government user, you may not operate a jammer in the U.S., even on private property. This means that it is illegal to use a jammer on mass transit (e.g., train, bus) or in a residence, vehicle, school, theater, restaurant or in any other public or private place.

        • Illegal to Import Jammers into the U.S. If you purchase a jammer online and ship it to the U.S., you have violated federal law. When you buy jammers from outside the U.S.-used or new -you become the "importer" of an illegal device. It does not matter whether you purchased the device from an established business or an individual selling the jammer in an online auction. Jammers imported from overseas are also subject to seizure at the border.

        • Monetary Penalties Can Exceed $100,000 per violation. Violations of the jamming prohibition can lead to substantial monetary penalties (up to $112,500 for any single act), seizure of the illegal jammer, and criminal sanctions including imprisonment.

        And it even specifically mentions Wi-Fi later in the alert [emphasis mine]:

        How do jammers work? A jammer can block all radio communications on any device that operates on radio frequencies within its range (i.e., within a certain radius of the jammer) by emitting radio frequency waves that prevent the targeted device from establishing or maintaining a connection. Jamming technology generally does not discriminate between desirable and undesirable communications. For example, jammers can:

        • prevent your cell phone from making or receiving calls, text messages,
          and emails;

        • prevent your Wi-Fi enabled device from connecting to the Internet;

        • prevent your GPS unit from receiving correct positioning signals; and

        • prevent a first responder from locating you in an emergency.

        6 votes
      2. ThrowdoBaggins
        Link Parent
        Aaaaaand now I’m picturing a bunch of burglars rocking up to a residence with a bunch of cheap microwave ovens and powering them all on at once

        Aaaaaand now I’m picturing a bunch of burglars rocking up to a residence with a bunch of cheap microwave ovens and powering them all on at once

        2 votes