I have been under the impression for years that it was generally accepted that hard drives are not a particularly stable data storage format for long-term. Decades seems to be the best you can...
I have been under the impression for years that it was generally accepted that hard drives are not a particularly stable data storage format for long-term. Decades seems to be the best you can reliably hope for, and one would think that files such as these, or, rather, services such as these, would be rated for much longer than that. It strikes me that this article feels like it's announcing this as if a revelation, as if new information, though I could be reading the wrong tone from it.
I don't think there was widespread common knowledge about how long hard drives should be expected to last offline. The magnetic media itself can hold data for a very long time (most other...
I don't think there was widespread common knowledge about how long hard drives should be expected to last offline. The magnetic media itself can hold data for a very long time (most other long-term archival formats are magnetic), but of course a hard drive has a large number of mechanical components that can degrade over time.
It definitely is known that the most durable data storage is online with redundancy and regular integrity checks, though.
I agree, I feel like this is something that's been known for a while. I worked for a public school district a while back that had a 30-year records retention policy. And as a result, the only two...
I agree, I feel like this is something that's been known for a while. I worked for a public school district a while back that had a 30-year records retention policy. And as a result, the only two mediums that were allowed for long-term record storage were paper, and microfiche. This was in 2010. Even at that time, nothing else was proven to reliably store records for that duration.
Some more background: Papyrus can last, but only in very dry desert conditions. Egyptian trash heaps are a significant source of information about how the Roman Empire worked because they include...
Some more background:
Papyrus can last, but only in very dry desert conditions. Egyptian trash heaps are a significant source of information about how the Roman Empire worked because they include random papers that monks wouldn't have been interested in copying. (Shopping lists, receipts, etc.) But there's a question of how much Egypt is a special case. More: Why Roman Egypt Was Such a Strange Province
By contrast, stone and metal inscriptions record things that elites considered important, but they're difficult to interpret because they're often highly abbreviated. Also, inscriptions carved in metal tend to disappear because metal is valuable and gets melted down. More here.
Nowadays there are lots of kinds of data that are widely copied and migrated to newer media. For example, I expect a substantial chunk of GitHub and many copies of Wikipedia to survive indefinitely, as well as any video games that made it into retro gaming archives.
It seems like the stuff in Iron Mountain is there because companies are somewhat interested in keeping it, but not in distributing it, and so that's a different kind of data.
This might be a little outside the scope of the article, but I wonder when we will get around to developing a truly resilient medium for long term data storage. Something on the order of centuries...
This might be a little outside the scope of the article, but I wonder when we will get around to developing a truly resilient medium for long term data storage. Something on the order of centuries instead of decades. It might not be practical for most people, but surely Disney and these record companies could afford to fund and use something like that. Of course it isn't as simple as a durable medium, you have to make sure you have a way to still read the thing in that time frame as well.
Yeah I think it’s the three factors of data integrity, the knowledge to decode said information in future, and the density of the data. Otherwise carving into stone tablets seems to work just fine...
Yeah I think it’s the three factors of data integrity, the knowledge to decode said information in future, and the density of the data. Otherwise carving into stone tablets seems to work just fine if historical records are anything to go by. And even ink on paper, if you spend a bit more effort on the conditions they’re stored in.
My first best guess would have gone towards the already-mentioned M-Discs too. Aside from that, if we’re allowing futuristic concepts, how about 5D optical storage crystals? Back in the realm of...
My first best guess would have gone towards the already-mentioned M-Discs too.
Aside from that, if we’re allowing futuristic concepts, how about 5D optical storage crystals?
Back in the realm of present-day mortals with, ahem, limited budget though: I think CDs/DVDs and other optical media are pretty much a solid idea.
As long as you have a drive with USB connection (rather common), and potentially adapter(s) to the port format of the next decades computers, it should in theory remain readable/usable.
I have a weird amount of insight on this. I used to work for a heritage preservation NGO that was largely sponsored by Iron Mountain and had to backup all our data onto their tape system weekly....
I have a weird amount of insight on this. I used to work for a heritage preservation NGO that was largely sponsored by Iron Mountain and had to backup all our data onto their tape system weekly. We specifically used their tape system because hard drives degrade overtime and make for a poor archive. We started that partnership in 2012... so it's been pretty common knowledge, and even highlighted by Iron Mountain, since before then.
I even got to travel to the original Boyers "Iron Mountain" underground facility they talk about in the article. It was like stepping into underground lair from Austin Powers. There is even a massive underground lake used for cooling. I ended up 3D scanning a few of their assets, like the recording studio with originals of... I want to say Paul McCartney and Ozzy Osborne? It was pretty cool!
My workplace used Iron Mountain for storage of old video footage for years. They would literally send a box of VHS tapes (and later MiniDV and DVD) once a year with everything we shot in the last...
My workplace used Iron Mountain for storage of old video footage for years. They would literally send a box of VHS tapes (and later MiniDV and DVD) once a year with everything we shot in the last 12 months.
We've never actually had to recall any of the old footage, but I am almost 100% sure that anything we gave them in a digital format is toast at this point. Even in a temperature controlled storage room (which it sounds like Iron Mountain may have been less than careful about), those DVD±R are most likely useless and rotted. Maybe the VHS tapes would still be readable, but I'm sure they are pretty degraded too.
I have been under the impression for years that it was generally accepted that hard drives are not a particularly stable data storage format for long-term. Decades seems to be the best you can reliably hope for, and one would think that files such as these, or, rather, services such as these, would be rated for much longer than that. It strikes me that this article feels like it's announcing this as if a revelation, as if new information, though I could be reading the wrong tone from it.
I don't think there was widespread common knowledge about how long hard drives should be expected to last offline. The magnetic media itself can hold data for a very long time (most other long-term archival formats are magnetic), but of course a hard drive has a large number of mechanical components that can degrade over time.
It definitely is known that the most durable data storage is online with redundancy and regular integrity checks, though.
I agree, I feel like this is something that's been known for a while. I worked for a public school district a while back that had a 30-year records retention policy. And as a result, the only two mediums that were allowed for long-term record storage were paper, and microfiche. This was in 2010. Even at that time, nothing else was proven to reliably store records for that duration.
We have some pretty old papyrus and stone tablets are said to last a while.
Some more background:
Papyrus can last, but only in very dry desert conditions. Egyptian trash heaps are a significant source of information about how the Roman Empire worked because they include random papers that monks wouldn't have been interested in copying. (Shopping lists, receipts, etc.) But there's a question of how much Egypt is a special case. More: Why Roman Egypt Was Such a Strange Province
By contrast, stone and metal inscriptions record things that elites considered important, but they're difficult to interpret because they're often highly abbreviated. Also, inscriptions carved in metal tend to disappear because metal is valuable and gets melted down. More here.
Nowadays there are lots of kinds of data that are widely copied and migrated to newer media. For example, I expect a substantial chunk of GitHub and many copies of Wikipedia to survive indefinitely, as well as any video games that made it into retro gaming archives.
It seems like the stuff in Iron Mountain is there because companies are somewhat interested in keeping it, but not in distributing it, and so that's a different kind of data.
I'd love to see a job ad for performing stone tablet carvings of school records. It would be thoroughly entertaining.
This might be a little outside the scope of the article, but I wonder when we will get around to developing a truly resilient medium for long term data storage. Something on the order of centuries instead of decades. It might not be practical for most people, but surely Disney and these record companies could afford to fund and use something like that. Of course it isn't as simple as a durable medium, you have to make sure you have a way to still read the thing in that time frame as well.
NIST has apparently approved M-Disc to last for 100+ years. The company who makes them says they can last for 1000, but that’s not likely true.
Something tells me they haven't actually tested that in real time.
Yeah I think it’s the three factors of data integrity, the knowledge to decode said information in future, and the density of the data. Otherwise carving into stone tablets seems to work just fine if historical records are anything to go by. And even ink on paper, if you spend a bit more effort on the conditions they’re stored in.
My first best guess would have gone towards the already-mentioned M-Discs too.
Aside from that, if we’re allowing futuristic concepts, how about 5D optical storage crystals?
Back in the realm of present-day mortals with, ahem, limited budget though: I think CDs/DVDs and other optical media are pretty much a solid idea.
As long as you have a drive with USB connection (rather common), and potentially adapter(s) to the port format of the next decades computers, it should in theory remain readable/usable.
I have a weird amount of insight on this. I used to work for a heritage preservation NGO that was largely sponsored by Iron Mountain and had to backup all our data onto their tape system weekly. We specifically used their tape system because hard drives degrade overtime and make for a poor archive. We started that partnership in 2012... so it's been pretty common knowledge, and even highlighted by Iron Mountain, since before then.
I even got to travel to the original Boyers "Iron Mountain" underground facility they talk about in the article. It was like stepping into underground lair from Austin Powers. There is even a massive underground lake used for cooling. I ended up 3D scanning a few of their assets, like the recording studio with originals of... I want to say Paul McCartney and Ozzy Osborne? It was pretty cool!
My workplace used Iron Mountain for storage of old video footage for years. They would literally send a box of VHS tapes (and later MiniDV and DVD) once a year with everything we shot in the last 12 months.
We've never actually had to recall any of the old footage, but I am almost 100% sure that anything we gave them in a digital format is toast at this point. Even in a temperature controlled storage room (which it sounds like Iron Mountain may have been less than careful about), those DVD±R are most likely useless and rotted. Maybe the VHS tapes would still be readable, but I'm sure they are pretty degraded too.