I miss KDE. We use RHEL 8 at work so I was forced to move to Gnome, and it is so incredibly opinionated and basic. It feels as though the project was commandeered by some developer with extremely...
I miss KDE. We use RHEL 8 at work so I was forced to move to Gnome, and it is so incredibly opinionated and basic. It feels as though the project was commandeered by some developer with extremely strong, extremely esoteric UI opinions and bent Gnome to their weird will.
Gnome requires all kinds of 3rd party plugins just to have the sort of taskbar or dock that we've come to expect from all OSes over the last 30 years. You have to install gnome-tweaks even just to restore the window minimize/maximize buttons (!). Utter insanity.
I'm incredibly fortunate to work in an IT environment where IT was okay with installing all the 3rd party plugins needed to make Gnome a workable desktop enterprise OS. I shudder to think what it must be like to work in a more restrictive IT environment and have to deal with completely vanilla Gnome, never again minimizing a window.
Yeah I can't stand gnome, I fought it for awhile installing tweaks but then every update those would break and I'd have to start over finding different ones. I was a long time XFCE user on my main...
Yeah I can't stand gnome, I fought it for awhile installing tweaks but then every update those would break and I'd have to start over finding different ones.
I was a long time XFCE user on my main desktop but when they moved it to gtk3 it carried a lot of the gnome designs over which annoyed me enough to move to LXQT.
In the meantime I've setup a couple other machines with KDE and while it still feels like a bit too much for my own desktop if I ever get tired of fiddling with a more minimalist desktop it's definitely what I'd move to for something that just works and is useful without tweaks.
Hello fellow LXQT user :) I settled on Lubuntu as my flavor of choice years ago and it has stuck through several computer upgrades. I always wondered what all the DE fuss was about, but now I...
Hello fellow LXQT user :)
I settled on Lubuntu as my flavor of choice years ago and it has stuck through several computer upgrades. I always wondered what all the DE fuss was about, but now I think I must have just stumbled my way out of having to deal with any of it. :D
I like Gnome, but it's a different workflow that you're expected to use. I don't remember the last time I minimized a window in Gnome, haha. Instead I think you're expected to use work spaces...
I like Gnome, but it's a different workflow that you're expected to use.
have to deal with completely vanilla Gnome, never again minimizing a window
I don't remember the last time I minimized a window in Gnome, haha. Instead I think you're expected to use work spaces which in my mind function better as a window management tool anyways. In general gnome interfaces are minimal, but the keyboard shortcuts are pretty extensive and I think I prefer this approach both from a stylistic and functional perspective.
I use virtual desktops and minimization across Windows, macOS, and Linux with KDE. I still minimize windows all the time because sometimes you just need to reduce clutter for 5 minutes while...
I use virtual desktops and minimization across Windows, macOS, and Linux with KDE. I still minimize windows all the time because sometimes you just need to reduce clutter for 5 minutes while focusing on one or two apps.
This has been a standard convention of the desktop metaphor for almost as long as I've been alive. At the very least, Gnome should ship with an option to get it back that does not require installing any additional packages or manually editing a config file. I don't care if the defaults are opinionated, I care that it's straightforward and easy for the end user to make their workspace comfortable if they do not like the defaults.
I don’t use vanilla Gnome but I believe they do, it’s just not via clicking a task bar. Hitting the super key will bring up an overview of all windows in a workspace, minimized or not.
I don’t use vanilla Gnome but I believe they do, it’s just not via clicking a task bar. Hitting the super key will bring up an overview of all windows in a workspace, minimized or not.
Why can't that be a button on the titlebar, like literally every other window manager for the last 35 years? It feels like change for the sake of change. Nothing is improved, just annoying, like...
Why can't that be a button on the titlebar, like literally every other window manager for the last 35 years?
It feels like change for the sake of change. Nothing is improved, just annoying, like the person who designed it was high on their own flatulence the whole time. That empty space on the titlebar where the minimize button used to be is not being used for anything.
It reminds me a lot of Jony Ive's insanity towards the end of his time at Apple. "Nobody needs a laptop with anything other than USB-C ports. Need HDMI? Just plug in a dongle!" Now he's gone and suddenly Apple is putting HDMI ports, SD card slots, and magsafe connectors on their laptops again.
There are plenty of window managers that don't feature minimize buttons, but I assume you know that. I'd much rather have an opinionated design than something that's married to how things have...
Why can't that be a button on the titlebar, like literally every other window manager for the last 35 years?
There are plenty of window managers that don't feature minimize buttons, but I assume you know that.
I'd much rather have an opinionated design than something that's married to how things have always been done. It's trivially easy to either add the button back or just use something more suited to your preference if it's not for you.
It feels like change for the sake of change. Nothing is improved, just annoying
I happen to like it. I don't like the visual clutter and the last time I clicked on a button on a titlebar was in the 90s. For a lot of people the workflow makes sense. If it doesn't for you that's great but no need to yuck other people's yum.
It reminds me a lot of Jony Ive's insanity towards the end of his time at Apple.
I think the difference is there is a real loss in functionality in Apple's case. There is no such loss here assuming you have a keyboard.
I should qualify that. Window managers most people have actually used, i.e. Windows, macOS, KDE, GNOME before 3.0 It's not if you are working in a locked down environment, as is common with RHEL....
There are plenty of window managers that don't feature minimize buttons, but I assume you know that.
I should qualify that. Window managers most people have actually used, i.e. Windows, macOS, KDE, GNOME before 3.0
It's trivially easy to either add the button back or just use something more suited to your preference if it's not for you.
It's not if you are working in a locked down environment, as is common with RHEL. gnome-tweak-tool is not included by default.
I don't like highly opinionated software, particularly for my desktop environment. The best software is highly customizable, because my opinion is the one that matters the most on my computer. This is what is so great about KDE. You personally don't like the minimize button? You can remove it from all titlebars in KDE just using the settings app. KDE is so customizable just with the included plasma widgets that you could make it behave almost exactly like GNOME if you wanted. That's just better design in my book.
I think the difference is there is a real loss in functionality in Apple's case. There is no such loss here assuming you have a keyboard.
Keyboard shortcuts lack the discoverability that onscreen buttons and menus have. I think the defaults should prioritize discovery and ease of use for new users, with keyboard shortcuts and customization aimed towards empowering power users. It's a lot easier to learn all the keyboard shortcuts for a complex application when it includes a menu bar that actually shows you those shortcuts every time you use it.
This is one of the reasons why I'm a huge fan of the macOS menubar, with how it's system-owned and a prominent, always-on-screen UI element. It means that app devs can't hide it, exclude it, or...
Keyboard shortcuts lack the discoverability that onscreen buttons and menus have.
This is one of the reasons why I'm a huge fan of the macOS menubar, with how it's system-owned and a prominent, always-on-screen UI element. It means that app devs can't hide it, exclude it, or cut it down (e.g. hamburger menu) in a bid for minimalism, making it consistently available for users to peruse and a great place to get a quick overview of any given app's key shortcuts. It's seriously underrated as a bit of UX design that helps turn newbies into savvy power users.
This is such a great read. There are so many points I vehemently agree with! And a few that make me scratch my head and say, "how could you possibly use your computer in that manner! You crazy...
This is such a great read.
There are so many points I vehemently agree with!
And a few that make me scratch my head and say, "how could you possibly use your computer in that manner! You crazy crazy person!"
Of course, if it works for the author, then that's super cool. I could just see myself writing this same story about my own computing life and choices over the years. Thanks for sharing.
The black-text-on-white-background choice for terminal definitely makes me question the soundness of the author's mind. Why anyone could for even a minute use a dark theme and then switch back to...
The black-text-on-white-background choice for terminal definitely makes me question the soundness of the author's mind. Why anyone could for even a minute use a dark theme and then switch back to light theming will forever be beyond my ken.
The other thing that struck me about this is that pretty much none of the things the author touts are specific to KDE. Pretty much every DE for a Linux OS I've tried in the past maybe five years or so has had every one of these options available if one cares to go digging just a little, as I'm sure the author had to do to enable them all.
To be clear: they are all fine options to have, and I think together represent the best endorsement for open source OSes going right now, but claiming as the author does that only KDE offers them seems a bit disingenuous to me. It seems the claim is that you actually have to download a binary to get some of them in other DEs, which might be true, but this seems to me to be mostly an aesthetic choice. There is no functional difference any longer between maintainers packaging in some miniscule binary with the release and pulling it from a maintained repo as needed. One could argue this is actually a net downside to KDE, as packaging in a lot of esoteric and rarely used features out of the box is hardly parsimonious, but again, the size of many of these programs is so miniscule that it doesn't much matter, especially when you compare any prominent DE to the incredible bloat Microsoft craps out once a month on a Tuesday.
Despite these extremely minor quibbles, I do think this is a fine testament to the power of control a user can have over their machine using an open source OS DE. While I wonder just how much distro/DE-hopping the author has done in the last decade or so, given the somewhat erroneous claim that KDE is the only one that offers all these features, I can't argue that they found something that works for them, and only for them, which is the main point anyway.
I recently started using light themes during the day and dark themes in the afternoon. A lot of dark themes actually do strain my eyes in daylight conditions, and after some experimenting I found...
Why anyone could for even a minute use a dark theme and then switch back to light theming will forever be beyond my ken.
I recently started using light themes during the day and dark themes in the afternoon. A lot of dark themes actually do strain my eyes in daylight conditions, and after some experimenting I found that light themes actually cause less of it.
It also means that effectively use light themes on my work computer and dark themes on my personal computer, which makes for some nice separation there since I do work mostly from home (hybrid).
I started using dark themes because light ones gave me headaches with a crt monitor. Now that I have a modern monitor, I still use dark themes because my eyes are now light sensitive, I get worn...
I started using dark themes because light ones gave me headaches with a crt monitor. Now that I have a modern monitor, I still use dark themes because my eyes are now light sensitive, I get worn out from too much black on white. I discovered this while pair programming with someone who had trouble reading light text on a black background.
We all have different needs and I’m really glad it’s so easy to try out different things to find out what suits us best.
Yes and no. I find the less light I'm looking directly at, the better. Having lots of ambient light in the room helps tremendously of course, as well as not doing pure white-on-black for fonts....
Yes and no. I find the less light I'm looking directly at, the better.
Having lots of ambient light in the room helps tremendously of course, as well as not doing pure white-on-black for fonts.
That and the broad power savings that come from black backgrounds, especially OLEDs. I'll never use anything other than midnight black themes on my phone ever again, barring a good e-ink phone.
Yeah, I agree about the dark theme, with one exception. I frequently work outside on a laptop with a 400 nit screen. Dark mode is impossible. As a result, that laptop stays mostly in bright theme...
Yeah, I agree about the dark theme, with one exception. I frequently work outside on a laptop with a 400 nit screen. Dark mode is impossible. As a result, that laptop stays mostly in bright theme ... terrible. I tried a pair of AR-style sunglasses that black out most of the world. That solved the brightness issue, but it was pretty terrible to use as someone without perfect stereoscopic vision; and it was very annoying for the screen to change location based on where your head was.
To your point about being non-KDE-specific features? Yeah, I agree: it was more about the ability to customize the machine and the GUI to his exact preferences - afforded via FOSS. It could have been found on many different deskop environments indeed. I interpreted the author's POV was essentially, "KDE offered me the flexibility and I couldn't find it on Windows or Mac, so here I am!"
I miss KDE. We use RHEL 8 at work so I was forced to move to Gnome, and it is so incredibly opinionated and basic. It feels as though the project was commandeered by some developer with extremely strong, extremely esoteric UI opinions and bent Gnome to their weird will.
Gnome requires all kinds of 3rd party plugins just to have the sort of taskbar or dock that we've come to expect from all OSes over the last 30 years. You have to install
gnome-tweakseven just to restore the window minimize/maximize buttons (!). Utter insanity.I'm incredibly fortunate to work in an IT environment where IT was okay with installing all the 3rd party plugins needed to make Gnome a workable desktop enterprise OS. I shudder to think what it must be like to work in a more restrictive IT environment and have to deal with completely vanilla Gnome, never again minimizing a window.
I have felt the same about Gnome every time I tried it. If IT was okay with the plugins, maybe they are okay with you installing KDE as the DE? ;)
I'd be suprised if not. The worst I'd expect would be a formal "don't call us for support unless you've tried in Gnome."
Yeah I can't stand gnome, I fought it for awhile installing tweaks but then every update those would break and I'd have to start over finding different ones.
I was a long time XFCE user on my main desktop but when they moved it to gtk3 it carried a lot of the gnome designs over which annoyed me enough to move to LXQT.
In the meantime I've setup a couple other machines with KDE and while it still feels like a bit too much for my own desktop if I ever get tired of fiddling with a more minimalist desktop it's definitely what I'd move to for something that just works and is useful without tweaks.
Hello fellow LXQT user :)
I settled on Lubuntu as my flavor of choice years ago and it has stuck through several computer upgrades. I always wondered what all the DE fuss was about, but now I think I must have just stumbled my way out of having to deal with any of it. :D
I like Gnome, but it's a different workflow that you're expected to use.
I don't remember the last time I minimized a window in Gnome, haha. Instead I think you're expected to use work spaces which in my mind function better as a window management tool anyways. In general gnome interfaces are minimal, but the keyboard shortcuts are pretty extensive and I think I prefer this approach both from a stylistic and functional perspective.
I use virtual desktops and minimization across Windows, macOS, and Linux with KDE. I still minimize windows all the time because sometimes you just need to reduce clutter for 5 minutes while focusing on one or two apps.
This has been a standard convention of the desktop metaphor for almost as long as I've been alive. At the very least, Gnome should ship with an option to get it back that does not require installing any additional packages or manually editing a config file. I don't care if the defaults are opinionated, I care that it's straightforward and easy for the end user to make their workspace comfortable if they do not like the defaults.
I don’t use vanilla Gnome but I believe they do, it’s just not via clicking a task bar. Hitting the super key will bring up an overview of all windows in a workspace, minimized or not.
I'm talking about the minimize button in the title bar.
Super + H to minimize (hide) a window
Why can't that be a button on the titlebar, like literally every other window manager for the last 35 years?
It feels like change for the sake of change. Nothing is improved, just annoying, like the person who designed it was high on their own flatulence the whole time. That empty space on the titlebar where the minimize button used to be is not being used for anything.
It reminds me a lot of Jony Ive's insanity towards the end of his time at Apple. "Nobody needs a laptop with anything other than USB-C ports. Need HDMI? Just plug in a dongle!" Now he's gone and suddenly Apple is putting HDMI ports, SD card slots, and magsafe connectors on their laptops again.
There are plenty of window managers that don't feature minimize buttons, but I assume you know that.
I'd much rather have an opinionated design than something that's married to how things have always been done. It's trivially easy to either add the button back or just use something more suited to your preference if it's not for you.
I happen to like it. I don't like the visual clutter and the last time I clicked on a button on a titlebar was in the 90s. For a lot of people the workflow makes sense. If it doesn't for you that's great but no need to yuck other people's yum.
I think the difference is there is a real loss in functionality in Apple's case. There is no such loss here assuming you have a keyboard.
I should qualify that. Window managers most people have actually used, i.e. Windows, macOS, KDE, GNOME before 3.0
It's not if you are working in a locked down environment, as is common with RHEL.
gnome-tweak-toolis not included by default.I don't like highly opinionated software, particularly for my desktop environment. The best software is highly customizable, because my opinion is the one that matters the most on my computer. This is what is so great about KDE. You personally don't like the minimize button? You can remove it from all titlebars in KDE just using the settings app. KDE is so customizable just with the included plasma widgets that you could make it behave almost exactly like GNOME if you wanted. That's just better design in my book.
Keyboard shortcuts lack the discoverability that onscreen buttons and menus have. I think the defaults should prioritize discovery and ease of use for new users, with keyboard shortcuts and customization aimed towards empowering power users. It's a lot easier to learn all the keyboard shortcuts for a complex application when it includes a menu bar that actually shows you those shortcuts every time you use it.
This is one of the reasons why I'm a huge fan of the macOS menubar, with how it's system-owned and a prominent, always-on-screen UI element. It means that app devs can't hide it, exclude it, or cut it down (e.g. hamburger menu) in a bid for minimalism, making it consistently available for users to peruse and a great place to get a quick overview of any given app's key shortcuts. It's seriously underrated as a bit of UX design that helps turn newbies into savvy power users.
This is such a great read.
There are so many points I vehemently agree with!
And a few that make me scratch my head and say, "how could you possibly use your computer in that manner! You crazy crazy person!"
Of course, if it works for the author, then that's super cool. I could just see myself writing this same story about my own computing life and choices over the years. Thanks for sharing.
The black-text-on-white-background choice for terminal definitely makes me question the soundness of the author's mind. Why anyone could for even a minute use a dark theme and then switch back to light theming will forever be beyond my ken.
The other thing that struck me about this is that pretty much none of the things the author touts are specific to KDE. Pretty much every DE for a Linux OS I've tried in the past maybe five years or so has had every one of these options available if one cares to go digging just a little, as I'm sure the author had to do to enable them all.
To be clear: they are all fine options to have, and I think together represent the best endorsement for open source OSes going right now, but claiming as the author does that only KDE offers them seems a bit disingenuous to me. It seems the claim is that you actually have to download a binary to get some of them in other DEs, which might be true, but this seems to me to be mostly an aesthetic choice. There is no functional difference any longer between maintainers packaging in some miniscule binary with the release and pulling it from a maintained repo as needed. One could argue this is actually a net downside to KDE, as packaging in a lot of esoteric and rarely used features out of the box is hardly parsimonious, but again, the size of many of these programs is so miniscule that it doesn't much matter, especially when you compare any prominent DE to the incredible bloat Microsoft craps out once a month on a Tuesday.
Despite these extremely minor quibbles, I do think this is a fine testament to the power of control a user can have over their machine using an open source OS DE. While I wonder just how much distro/DE-hopping the author has done in the last decade or so, given the somewhat erroneous claim that KDE is the only one that offers all these features, I can't argue that they found something that works for them, and only for them, which is the main point anyway.
I recently started using light themes during the day and dark themes in the afternoon. A lot of dark themes actually do strain my eyes in daylight conditions, and after some experimenting I found that light themes actually cause less of it.
It also means that effectively use light themes on my work computer and dark themes on my personal computer, which makes for some nice separation there since I do work mostly from home (hybrid).
Ok. It seems slightly less batshit an idea now. Thank you.
I started using dark themes because light ones gave me headaches with a crt monitor. Now that I have a modern monitor, I still use dark themes because my eyes are now light sensitive, I get worn out from too much black on white. I discovered this while pair programming with someone who had trouble reading light text on a black background.
We all have different needs and I’m really glad it’s so easy to try out different things to find out what suits us best.
Yes and no. I find the less light I'm looking directly at, the better.
Having lots of ambient light in the room helps tremendously of course, as well as not doing pure white-on-black for fonts.
That and the broad power savings that come from black backgrounds, especially OLEDs. I'll never use anything other than midnight black themes on my phone ever again, barring a good e-ink phone.
Yeah, I agree about the dark theme, with one exception. I frequently work outside on a laptop with a 400 nit screen. Dark mode is impossible. As a result, that laptop stays mostly in bright theme ... terrible. I tried a pair of AR-style sunglasses that black out most of the world. That solved the brightness issue, but it was pretty terrible to use as someone without perfect stereoscopic vision; and it was very annoying for the screen to change location based on where your head was.
To your point about being non-KDE-specific features? Yeah, I agree: it was more about the ability to customize the machine and the GUI to his exact preferences - afforded via FOSS. It could have been found on many different deskop environments indeed. I interpreted the author's POV was essentially, "KDE offered me the flexibility and I couldn't find it on Windows or Mac, so here I am!"