57 votes

Amazon to close Quebec facilities, insists it's not because of new union

14 comments

  1. [9]
    Cycloneblaze
    Link
    This is a real limitation of collective action vs. regulation, in my eyes. Amazon is plenty big enough to close an entire set of warehouses and sacrifice the quality of its operations for a while...

    This is a real limitation of collective action vs. regulation, in my eyes. Amazon is plenty big enough to close an entire set of warehouses and sacrifice the quality of its operations for a while to spite this union. And this is real spite, real scorched-earth tactics - 1,700 jobs is a staggering number!

    What's more is it's such an effective tactic. Only 300 of the 1700 had unionised, according to the article, but all of them lose their jobs, and they can all very well see the cause and effect. Amazon might not be able to fire the union activists or members, but they can certainly fire everybody, and that's the same thing. The long-term trend might still be against Amazon, but the short-term effect is that you lose your job. Why would you even let anyone talk about a union if that's a guaranteed consequence? How do unions defend against this tactic (and that's not a rhetorical question)? They are definitely morally right, but you can't eat morals. As far as I'm concerned, it will take the power of national governments to push back against Amazon's intransigence on their workers' rights.

    59 votes
    1. [4]
      thearctic
      Link Parent
      I don't think it's much of a loss, and it could even be a net gain. Note that the jobs that Amazon created were more or less replacing other jobs in Quebec, and that operations are being shifted...

      I don't think it's much of a loss, and it could even be a net gain. Note that the jobs that Amazon created were more or less replacing other jobs in Quebec, and that operations are being shifted to local small businesses.

      20 votes
      1. [3]
        dsh
        Link Parent
        I am very pro-union so I am going to say that I doubt any of these "small local businesses" that Amazon says its going to work with will have a net total of 300 unionized workers, and instead,...

        I am very pro-union so I am going to say that I doubt any of these "small local businesses" that Amazon says its going to work with will have a net total of 300 unionized workers, and instead, have similar or worse working conditions for those small businesses. It'll be a race to the bottom for the cheapest contracts to work with Amazon, and workers and consumers the same will likely suffer.

        So while number of jobs may be transferred, quality of pay and rights of workers may suffer because of it. I hope I'm wrong.

        19 votes
        1. [2]
          json
          Link Parent
          Does small local business mean independent contractor?

          Does small local business mean independent contractor?

          2 votes
          1. dsh
            Link Parent
            This or a firm that hires independent contractors (like Dragonfly/TransForce).

            This or a firm that hires independent contractors (like Dragonfly/TransForce).

            3 votes
    2. Weldawadyathink
      Link Parent
      Both collective action and unions are just checks on company power. They both need to have a similar level of power as the companies they act as a check for. In this example, the union has...

      Both collective action and unions are just checks on company power. They both need to have a similar level of power as the companies they act as a check for. In this example, the union has significantly less power than Amazon. If there was a delivery workers union that was worldwide, this would not be happening. Also the very few legit examples of union overreach and abuse are almost all from unions that are significantly more powerful than the companies they oppose.

      11 votes
    3. [3]
      raze2012
      Link Parent
      The sad part is that they need to overcome that mentality and accept that thars the sacrifice needed to save everyone. They do this too much and they will get investigated and (hopefully) fined up...

      The sad part is that they need to overcome that mentality and accept that thars the sacrifice needed to save everyone. They do this too much and they will get investigated and (hopefully) fined up the arse.

      Ideally we'd have labor laws like the French where any laid off workers have first priorities at new openings, but it's a less smooth process to restore those lost jobs.

      4 votes
      1. [2]
        Interesting
        Link Parent
        It seems unreasonable and unfair to expect people to be martyrs.

        It seems unreasonable and unfair to expect people to be martyrs.

        9 votes
        1. raze2012
          Link Parent
          I'm aware. But that's the only way out. There's no victimless way to fight back unless you have deep pockets in high places (in which case, you would not need to tolerate Amazon). It's also the...

          I'm aware. But that's the only way out. There's no victimless way to fight back unless you have deep pockets in high places (in which case, you would not need to tolerate Amazon).

          It's also the least violent way. I'm sure we'd only need a dozen violent martyrs, especially in America where you can grab a gun at Wal-Mart.

          2 votes
  2. Acorn_CK
    Link
    Infuriating. We learned nothing from the monopoly breakups of the past huh?

    Infuriating. We learned nothing from the monopoly breakups of the past huh?

    9 votes
  3. unkz
    Link
    I know very little about this end of Amazon’s business, but it does seem like a 30% increase in labour costs might well not be viable.

    At a recent demonstration, the Laval workers said they were demanding $26 per hour, a $6 pay increase.

    I know very little about this end of Amazon’s business, but it does seem like a 30% increase in labour costs might well not be viable.

    4 votes
  4. [2]
    datavoid
    Link
    Amazon switched to Dragonfly shipping in my area a few months ago. Since then I've received several incorrect "your package will be delivered today" emails, as well as several "delivery attempted"...

    Amazon switched to Dragonfly shipping in my area a few months ago. Since then I've received several incorrect "your package will be delivered today" emails, as well as several "delivery attempted" emails when no such attempt was made. My theory is that Amazon is just subcontracting responsibility so people can't complain when they make their service worse.

    17 votes
    1. kingofsnake
      Link Parent
      Hopefully it steers people away from what is ostensibly, the easiest way to shop online. When it's this good, I don't know why people would go anywhere else. Make it suck more!

      Hopefully it steers people away from what is ostensibly, the easiest way to shop online. When it's this good, I don't know why people would go anywhere else. Make it suck more!

      5 votes
  5. cfabbro
    (edited )
    Link
    Thanks for adding the extra tags, but it's actually not a short read, @mycketforvirrad. The metadata is wrong. The article isn't 352 words, it's almost 1k. p.s. Feel free to move it to another...

    Thanks for adding the extra tags, but it's actually not a short read, @mycketforvirrad. The metadata is wrong. The article isn't 352 words, it's almost 1k.

    p.s. Feel free to move it to another group. I just instinctually put Amazon related things in ~tech, but it's not really about the tech side of their business, so might be more appropriate in ~finance or even ~society.

    /offtopic

    10 votes