A European open source initiative to fork the OnlyOffice project, in order to provide a sovereign and transparent alternative to Microsoft's Office suite. TLDR: The reasons for a fork are stated...
A European open source initiative to fork the OnlyOffice project, in order to provide a sovereign and transparent alternative to Microsoft's Office suite.
TLDR: The reasons for a fork are stated to be as follows- the OnlyOffice team rarely (if ever) allow outside contributions, the project relies on a number of proprietary binaries, and the project is somewhat linked to a number of Russian entities.
This initiative is also discussed in the Selfh.st newsletter, which can be found here.
As far as I can understand, OnlyOffice is essentially admitting that their claimed use of AGPLv3 is intended as a scam, and that the software is not meaningfully open source. Their two 'additional...
As an aside, OnlyOffice are currently arguing that license violations have occurred, despite their use of a (modified) AGPLv3 license.
As far as I can understand, OnlyOffice is essentially admitting that their claimed use of AGPLv3 is intended as a scam, and that the software is not meaningfully open source. Their two 'additional requirements' amount to:
Any derivative work must use the OnlyOffice logo, and
Derivative works have no right to use the OnlyOffice logo.
Essentially, no derivative works are allowed. If they are allowed to refer to this as AGPLv3, then software being AGPLv3 has no meaning. The FSF has sent lawyers after scams like this before; hopefully, if OnlyOffice tries to enforce these terms, the FSF will become involved again.
If there were doubts about the need for a fork, however, OnlyOffice's response seems to make the reason clear.
Wow, I was assuming they were subversive or occluded some way but nope, they are listed one after each other in that official blog post right in the middle of detailing that licenses matter....
Wow, I was assuming they were subversive or occluded some way but nope, they are listed one after each other in that official blog post right in the middle of detailing that licenses matter. Straight up a logical contradiction.
Edit: This kinda reminds me of Nintendo anti piracy methodology for the game boy where they added a check for the Nintendo logo in the rom before it would boot the cartridge. Anyone wanting to make a game boot on the game boy would need the Nintendo logo so they could go after you for trade mark infringement. But that was for protection of a closed source program / ecosystem rather than one masquerading as an open one.
It could also extend beyond PR, too: organizations or individuals might have strong preferences, or even requirements, for open source. At least in my experience with EU agencies, for example,...
It could also extend beyond PR, too: organizations or individuals might have strong preferences, or even requirements, for open source. At least in my experience with EU agencies, for example, FSF/OSI-approved licenses can have significance and be specified for some things. By seeming to have this as AGPLv3, it would be acceptable in those circumstances.
Do you feel like OpenAI set the precedent for how to masquerade as a noble venture while opening a for-profit arm where most of the decisions happen? I don't recall whether it was Value Village or...
Do you feel like OpenAI set the precedent for how to masquerade as a noble venture while opening a for-profit arm where most of the decisions happen?
I don't recall whether it was Value Village or Goodwill, but I was at both this weekend and one accepts donations as a non profit, but operates a retail chain, too.
Maybe for a bit. But I think people actually caught on to their crap with this pretty fast, even amongst the pro-AI types. So I wasn't actually ever terribly worried about this much. Well, tell a...
Do you feel like OpenAI set the precedent for how to masquerade as a noble venture while opening a for-profit arm where most of the decisions happen?
Maybe for a bit. But I think people actually caught on to their crap with this pretty fast, even amongst the pro-AI types. So I wasn't actually ever terribly worried about this much. Well, tell a lie: AI stuff has been making the "Open" prefix sound more and more untrustworthy each year, and I do think OpenAI is at fault for that.
I don't recall whether it was Value Village or Goodwill, but I was at both this weekend and one accepts donations as a non profit, but operates a retail chain, too.
Probably Value Village judging by some Wikipedia glances; they're literally a for-profit that's owned by a private equity firm. If it's any consolation, them buying their products from donations is still better than it being thrown away, at least? (So long as they're not hoarding the supply away from more deserving candidates, anyway.)
By contrast, Goodwill is actually a non-profit, and though they do have a Controversies section in their article, most of it isn't very damning. They do deliberately underpay disabled workers, however, which is very gross.
Goodwill does operate retail chains and is a not-for-profit organization, they sell donated items, typically for low costs. On the one hand I understand they get it for free so its kinda crappy...
I don't recall whether it was Value Village or Goodwill, but I was at both this weekend and one accepts donations as a non profit, but operates a retail chain, too.
Goodwill does operate retail chains and is a not-for-profit organization, they sell donated items, typically for low costs. On the one hand I understand they get it for free so its kinda crappy they can turn around and sell it but it does cost to have a location to store those items and sort through them and such. In theory donations would pay for that perhaps but Goodwill runs many programs and I'm not diving through their financials to cast any specific judgement on it. Sometimes it costs money to dispose of stuff you don't want anymore, depending on what the items are anyhow, especially if you don't really want to do any work cleaning stuff up and taking photos and listing them on places to sell them yourself, or running garage sales etc. so that kinda shows that them taking those items for free as donations does incur some costs.
Yeah, I see this. To my knowledge, Goodwill is the more reputable of the two, though I'd like to know more about exactly how the business is run. Separating the two from non profit to for profit...
Yeah, I see this. To my knowledge, Goodwill is the more reputable of the two, though I'd like to know more about exactly how the business is run. Separating the two from non profit to for profit is a bit suss.
OnlyOffice looks more modern than LibreOffice but feels slightly heavier. I have read that it has better MS Office compatibility than LibreOffice but haven't tried that myself. OnlyOffice also...
OnlyOffice looks more modern than LibreOffice but feels slightly heavier. I have read that it has better MS Office compatibility than LibreOffice but haven't tried that myself. OnlyOffice also doesn't seem to have the AWEFUL KERNING PROBLEMS that LibreOffice has for me.
I use LibreOffice most of the time because I use it more for excel sheets types of things so kerning doesn't matter and compatibility hasn't been an issue. So I use the more libre option.
I was told that OpenOffice isn't being maintained anymore and hasn't been for a long time, but looking at their GitHub the last update was as recent as a few months ago... so I have no idea whats going on with that project. I haven't tried it personally.
When Euro-Office rolls out a desktop client I'll definitely switch to it for word documents. The politics of OnlyOffice don't impress me so I've mostly avoided it.
Ah, thanks, I had no idea honestly the names being similar messes me up anyways. I'm assuming youve used OpenOffice... is that any good? Using LibreWriter irks me, I don't want to use OnlyOffice,...
Ah, thanks, I had no idea honestly the names being similar messes me up anyways.
I'm assuming youve used OpenOffice... is that any good? Using LibreWriter irks me, I don't want to use OnlyOffice, and EuroOffice doesn't have a desktop app yet (I guess I could run it in a browser but I'd rather not).
Edit: I'm actually really excited for Euro-Office and was hoping it would create a better discussion on Tildes about digital sovereignty and the weird pretend FOSS-ness of OnlyOffice. I see this is another nail in the coffin of Microsoft... at least in Europe. 2026, the year of the Linux desktop!
I'm not even in Europe but hope Canada will also adopt this. I survived Win95 Word, I'll take buggy and fewer features over whatever Windows has become.
I'm not even in Europe but hope Canada will also adopt this. I survived Win95 Word, I'll take buggy and fewer features over whatever Windows has become.
No, it's not. Everyone involved moved to LibreOffice, and there's no active development in OpenOffice. The entire split was designed as a "fuck you" from Oracle (the owner of OpenOffice at the...
OpenOffice... is that any good?
No, it's not. Everyone involved moved to LibreOffice, and there's no active development in OpenOffice. The entire split was designed as a "fuck you" from Oracle (the owner of OpenOffice at the time) to the existing development community who had already left and formed LibreOffice.
The latest stable release of OpenOffice was November last year. Still, difficulties maintaining a sufficient number of active developers and code contributors to keep the project viable have...
The latest stable release of OpenOffice was November last year.
Still, difficulties maintaining a sufficient number of active developers and code contributors to keep the project viable have persisted for several years. This has led to persistent problems providing timely fixes to security vulnerabilities since 2015. As of July 2025, the Apache Software Foundation has classed its security status as "red" with multiple unfixed security issues over a year old.
Have you read the changelog for that release, which contained a year's worth of development? About 20 minor bug fixes, half of which were brought in from LibreOffice A few changes in the wording...
About 20 minor bug fixes, half of which were brought in from LibreOffice
A few changes in the wording of some buttons
Updating to the latest version of the English and Danish dictionaries
It's just two people who for whatever reason enjoy pretending to run a major software project. I have my own strange hobbies, so I can't judge too much, but I do wish they would chose a hobby less destructive to the reputation of open-source software in general.
It's intended to ensure that if the US government pressured Microsoft to disable MS Office licenses of some European government they aren't immediately crippled by the inability to make PowerPoint...
It's intended to ensure that if the US government pressured Microsoft to disable MS Office licenses of some European government they aren't immediately crippled by the inability to make PowerPoint presentations.
European countries have for some years now been talking about digital sovereignty, referring to a goal of reducing their dependence on foreign technology, such as Chinese hardware and American...
European countries have for some years now been talking about digital sovereignty, referring to a goal of reducing their dependence on foreign technology, such as Chinese hardware and American software and data services. Back in 2021, a group of European prime ministers wrote an open letter about this, and it has either directly or indirectly led to some legislative work such as the Digital Markets Act and the Digital Services Act.
The perceived need for digital sovereignty has only increased recently as trust towards the US as a reliable partner has eroded, the influence of largely American tech companies in both public and political spheres has become an issue, and the world in general has been less predictable. Many companies and individuals are now considering European alternatives to software, services and devices that they have previously been happy to get from non-European providers. Euro-Office is a part of this sea change.
The concept of digital sovereignty is older of course, but I would say that it's become part of the political discourse in the past decade or so. Back in the 90s we also talked about the somewhat related independence of cyberspace, as if governments had no sovereignty over the internet.
It's not unique to Europe or the west, of course. China has its own concept of cyber sovereignty, and I'm sure other countries do as well.
A European open source initiative to fork the OnlyOffice project, in order to provide a sovereign and transparent alternative to Microsoft's Office suite.
TLDR: The reasons for a fork are stated to be as follows- the OnlyOffice team rarely (if ever) allow outside contributions, the project relies on a number of proprietary binaries, and the project is somewhat linked to a number of Russian entities.
This initiative is also discussed in the Selfh.st newsletter, which can be found here.
As an aside, OnlyOffice are currently arguing that license violations have occurred, despite their use of a (modified) AGPLv3 license.
As far as I can understand, OnlyOffice is essentially admitting that their claimed use of AGPLv3 is intended as a scam, and that the software is not meaningfully open source. Their two 'additional requirements' amount to:
Essentially, no derivative works are allowed. If they are allowed to refer to this as AGPLv3, then software being AGPLv3 has no meaning. The FSF has sent lawyers after scams like this before; hopefully, if OnlyOffice tries to enforce these terms, the FSF will become involved again.
If there were doubts about the need for a fork, however, OnlyOffice's response seems to make the reason clear.
Wow, I was assuming they were subversive or occluded some way but nope, they are listed one after each other in that official blog post right in the middle of detailing that licenses matter. Straight up a logical contradiction.
Edit: This kinda reminds me of Nintendo anti piracy methodology for the game boy where they added a check for the Nintendo logo in the rom before it would boot the cartridge. Anyone wanting to make a game boot on the game boy would need the Nintendo logo so they could go after you for trade mark infringement. But that was for protection of a closed source program / ecosystem rather than one masquerading as an open one.
I believe it’s a similar strategy for second generation Nespresso pods as well.
Odd that pallas is responding to lynxy here...I guess I'm keeping things in Carnivora (or at least Mammalia).
Thanks for the funny mental image of a canine sitting there musing while two felines converse with each other
What's the scam then? What benefit do they gain by claiming to use AGPLv3 but barring derivatives? Why not just use a "no derivatives" licence?
The illusion of open-source software makes them sound more trustworthy and helpful, rather than a corporation masquerading as such. PR, basically.
It could also extend beyond PR, too: organizations or individuals might have strong preferences, or even requirements, for open source. At least in my experience with EU agencies, for example, FSF/OSI-approved licenses can have significance and be specified for some things. By seeming to have this as AGPLv3, it would be acceptable in those circumstances.
Do you feel like OpenAI set the precedent for how to masquerade as a noble venture while opening a for-profit arm where most of the decisions happen?
I don't recall whether it was Value Village or Goodwill, but I was at both this weekend and one accepts donations as a non profit, but operates a retail chain, too.
Horseshit.
Maybe for a bit. But I think people actually caught on to their crap with this pretty fast, even amongst the pro-AI types. So I wasn't actually ever terribly worried about this much. Well, tell a lie: AI stuff has been making the "Open" prefix sound more and more untrustworthy each year, and I do think OpenAI is at fault for that.
Probably Value Village judging by some Wikipedia glances; they're literally a for-profit that's owned by a private equity firm. If it's any consolation, them buying their products from donations is still better than it being thrown away, at least? (So long as they're not hoarding the supply away from more deserving candidates, anyway.)
By contrast, Goodwill is actually a non-profit, and though they do have a Controversies section in their article, most of it isn't very damning. They do deliberately underpay disabled workers, however, which is very gross.
Goodwill does operate retail chains and is a not-for-profit organization, they sell donated items, typically for low costs. On the one hand I understand they get it for free so its kinda crappy they can turn around and sell it but it does cost to have a location to store those items and sort through them and such. In theory donations would pay for that perhaps but Goodwill runs many programs and I'm not diving through their financials to cast any specific judgement on it. Sometimes it costs money to dispose of stuff you don't want anymore, depending on what the items are anyhow, especially if you don't really want to do any work cleaning stuff up and taking photos and listing them on places to sell them yourself, or running garage sales etc. so that kinda shows that them taking those items for free as donations does incur some costs.
Yeah, I see this. To my knowledge, Goodwill is the more reputable of the two, though I'd like to know more about exactly how the business is run. Separating the two from non profit to for profit is a bit suss.
How does OnlyOffice compare to OpenOffice or LibreOffice in usability?
OnlyOffice looks more modern than LibreOffice but feels slightly heavier. I have read that it has better MS Office compatibility than LibreOffice but haven't tried that myself. OnlyOffice also doesn't seem to have the AWEFUL KERNING PROBLEMS that LibreOffice has for me.
I use LibreOffice most of the time because I use it more for excel sheets types of things so kerning doesn't matter and compatibility hasn't been an issue. So I use the more libre option.
I was told that OpenOffice isn't being maintained anymore and hasn't been for a long time, but looking at their GitHub the last update was as recent as a few months ago... so I have no idea whats going on with that project. I haven't tried it personally.
When Euro-Office rolls out a desktop client I'll definitely switch to it for word documents. The politics of OnlyOffice don't impress me so I've mostly avoided it.
OpenOffice.Org was succeeded by Apache OpenOffice. That's why. The better-known name is dead but the product lives on.
Ah, thanks, I had no idea honestly the names being similar messes me up anyways.
I'm assuming youve used OpenOffice... is that any good? Using LibreWriter irks me, I don't want to use OnlyOffice, and EuroOffice doesn't have a desktop app yet (I guess I could run it in a browser but I'd rather not).
Edit: I'm actually really excited for Euro-Office and was hoping it would create a better discussion on Tildes about digital sovereignty and the weird pretend FOSS-ness of OnlyOffice. I see this is another nail in the coffin of Microsoft... at least in Europe. 2026, the year of the Linux desktop!
I'm not even in Europe but hope Canada will also adopt this. I survived Win95 Word, I'll take buggy and fewer features over whatever Windows has become.
Ha, as long as it doesn't have a libre paperclip.
No, it's not. Everyone involved moved to LibreOffice, and there's no active development in OpenOffice. The entire split was designed as a "fuck you" from Oracle (the owner of OpenOffice at the time) to the existing development community who had already left and formed LibreOffice.
The latest stable release of OpenOffice was November last year.
Still, difficulties maintaining a sufficient number of active developers and code contributors to keep the project viable have persisted for several years. This has led to persistent problems providing timely fixes to security vulnerabilities since 2015. As of July 2025, the Apache Software Foundation has classed its security status as "red" with multiple unfixed security issues over a year old.
Have you read the changelog for that release, which contained a year's worth of development?
It's just two people who for whatever reason enjoy pretending to run a major software project. I have my own strange hobbies, so I can't judge too much, but I do wish they would chose a hobby less destructive to the reputation of open-source software in general.
Does anyone know what this means? It sounds like legalese.
It's intended to ensure that if the US government pressured Microsoft to disable MS Office licenses of some European government they aren't immediately crippled by the inability to make PowerPoint presentations.
European countries have for some years now been talking about digital sovereignty, referring to a goal of reducing their dependence on foreign technology, such as Chinese hardware and American software and data services. Back in 2021, a group of European prime ministers wrote an open letter about this, and it has either directly or indirectly led to some legislative work such as the Digital Markets Act and the Digital Services Act.
The perceived need for digital sovereignty has only increased recently as trust towards the US as a reliable partner has eroded, the influence of largely American tech companies in both public and political spheres has become an issue, and the world in general has been less predictable. Many companies and individuals are now considering European alternatives to software, services and devices that they have previously been happy to get from non-European providers. Euro-Office is a part of this sea change.
The concept of digital sovereignty is older of course, but I would say that it's become part of the political discourse in the past decade or so. Back in the 90s we also talked about the somewhat related independence of cyberspace, as if governments had no sovereignty over the internet.
It's not unique to Europe or the west, of course. China has its own concept of cyber sovereignty, and I'm sure other countries do as well.
Fairly sure it's corporate speak.