Recommendation request: Modern wifi routers
I'm running out of time to finish the spend requirements on a credit card promotion. I was planning on buying a VR headset, but I realized there was something that would actually be much more useful; a new router.
The market for consumer routers has been really strange; We are on the sixth generation, yet it's super common for consumer routers to be two or three generations behind, especially the less expensive ones. So much of the stuff on the market only goes up to 802.11n, and half of the time the firmware they include is halfway broken or is missing important features.
So I'm looking for a router that is relatively future-proof. I want Wifi 6. I want something that won't be interrupted by the microwave. Open source firmware would be excellent, but not a requirement. I don't need mesh networking; my house is not that big. I do want it to be relatively inexpensive; I'd consider $300 to be a hard limit unless someone has a persuasive arguement to justify the cost.
I would also prefer to avoid Netgear. I have no idea how they stay in business with the mountains of problems I have had with their products and their horrible support. The last time I owned a Netgear product, I was forced to give them my email address to download the driver and they illegally added it to their marketing mailing list without my permission. I don't do business with people who betray me.
I'm a big fan of running a router as software on a PC instead of using off-the-shelf hardware, then using a dedicated wireless access point for wifi. Standard wireless routers these days still often come with single core 600mhz processors with 128mb of ram and other cost saving measures like insufficient heatsinking and cooling. Underneath the hood a lot of them are trying to run linux on those specs, meaning they're either barely scraping by, or are running a very old and obsolete version of linux.
I for one typically have a server running in a closet somewhere, running VMWare ESXi with a PFSense virtual machine doing all my routing, firewalling, etc. For wireless I'm a big fan of Ubiquiti Uni-FI access points. Even giving the VM one core and a gig of ram is an order of magnitude better performance than most consumer routers, and I've had one UniFI AC Pro cover an entire warehouse and adjacent offices. PFSense also gives you a ton of other options normally only available on enterprise-grade firewalls like IDS, realtime virus scanning of all traffic, all sorts of open source plugins for monitoring things realtime, etc etc etc.
It's actually easier than you might think to set up. So long as you've got an x86 PC with two gigabit NICs laying around I highly recommend it.
If that's more effort than you're willing to invest, my current roommate has an ASUS RT-AX88U, which hasn't given us any serious issues so far. I can vouch for it at least as far as I can throw it. When we first got it it required rebooting once every week or two, but firmware updates have fixed that. I for one absolutely hate the interface, but it's built on top of Tomato, an open-source router distro, so a fork of ASUS's firmware exists called ASUSWRT Merlin. It probably also has good support for Tomato, OpenWRT, or DD-WRT, but I haven't checked since even suggesting the idea is likely to send my roommate into a rage. I've never modified any of his stuff, but boy is he ever worried I will.
I can't tell you the last time I've owned a computer with a dedicated ethernet NIC, but it certainly wasn't gigabit. Besides, I've past the time in my life when I would have a spare PC laying around instead of just throwing them away. Just ignore that box I have sitting in the corner of the room, OK?
In all seriousness, though, the biggest reason why I don't want to use a PC is because I want something that will be energy efficient as well. Beyond that, I don't want to spend a lot of time configuring everything. Besides that, the PC I have in the box in the corner is not really ideal for the situation because I don't trust the PSU inside it, which is non-standard proprietary garbage.
That being said, getting a separate AP might not be a terrible idea. I like the extra flexability.
I work in a small business where cheap router are mandated by the management, and the last one we bought was also an ASUS. Your experience mirrors mine, especially with the rebooting. But since it seems to have been fixed, I might end up with that solution. Thank you for the suggestion.
Mini-ITX x86 systems can be cheap and relatively low power, and roughly router-sized. You can find low-profile dual-gigabit lan cards for $20 every day of the week. You could reuse a laptop, but you're going to have issues if you don't have two ethernet ports.
It's totally possible to have a PC run on <50W, but I concede that's still several times more than most wifi routers. It makes more sense if you already have another reason to run a server, like having a NAS, plex server, webserver, etc.
Your comment made me think about using a Raspberry Pi 4 for a moment, since it's got some massive improvements on the ethernet front, but it was the lack of a second port that put a stop to that.
As a side note, I've noticed that ASUS actually has some basic server software baked into the firmware. But in any case it really doesn't make much sense with the poor upload speed we have on our end.
Are you sure you need anything in the latest Wifi networking standards? Being a little behind isn't such a bad thing; it means you're running something that has the bugs worked out.
We started having problems with the built-in WiFi radio on our U-verse box. Today I plugged in a 10-year-old Netgear router that I had lying around to use its WiFi instead, and it still works fine.
Also consider running Ethernet to reduce latency on video calls:
https://www.jefftk.com/p/ethernet-is-worth-it-for-video-calls
I would do ethernet if I could, but it's really not possible with the layout of the house right now (read: too much junk). Also the house doesn't really belong to me. If it did I would have run some cat6e cables everywhere ages ago.
The house is also on top of a hill so there a bit more radio noise up here, and the greater spectrum available for WiFi 6 might just end up helping with that.
Here's a different kind of router company.
Turris — https://www.turris.cz/en/
Started as an Indiegogo campaign. Software is a customized fork of OpenWrt. Pushes regular OTA security updates. Routers are modular and designed to support a wide array of additional services and functions that aren't often associated with routers like virtual home server or NAS.
I got this router and I don't really have complaints after it was setup. Has its own app for troubleshooting and configuration, which is appreciated.
Edit: ty @Pseudolobster
It also runs OpenWRT very well, I used one for a couple years with no issues.
I just switched from a full unifi stack to eero. I know you didn’t want mesh networking, but hear me out. I only have a single eero (gen 2), and it cost $80. The setup was ridiculously easy, and it has been faster and more stable than a usg 3p, usw 8-60w, and a uap-ac-pro. It does not have WiFi 6, but a new model is likely coming eventually with it. It does not have FOSS firmware. But if you want WiFi that is easy to setup and forget about, go with eero. If you do need more than one access point, you can hardwire the second one. Then you aren’t technically using a mesh system.
Honestly, I hear so many professionals raving about Ubiquiti that it's really tempting to just get their Dream Machine even though it doesn't have WiFi 6 and is in the upper range of the budget. But if Eero is really as good as you say it might just be the best solution.
The dream machine has had a really rocky launch, so be careful. I really liked my unifi switch and ap, but the usg 3p was really shaky. It is pretty under featured for a router that expensive. I had issues where it would just disappear from the controller (gen 1 cloud key) for long periods of time. I would just ignore it until I had to make a configuration change. My most recent issue was with my MacBook Pro 2012 having terrible WiFi every so often. Like 30-60 seconds to load a google search. It couldn’t even complete a speed test without an error. I finally diagnosed it to unifi band steering. They now have 2 different redesigned settings pages and the option only existed in 1. It also kept turning itself back on. This was the impetus for me to switch (and finding out it was $80 for my small apartment).
Just be aware of what you are getting with the eero. It has very few settings. You can turn on band steering and you can turn on port forwarding. You can’t even adjust the ip range it uses. Mine used 192.168.4.x by default. There are no other settings. There is no web interface, you have to use the app. It is not the product for someone who wants to tinker with their network or home lab. But it is the most stable WiFi I have used ever.
I knew there was something stupid I was missing when I asked the question. The main reason why I wanted to get this new router was that I wanted to replace the crappy ISP provided router because it constantly fails, but the crappy ISP provided router is also a cable modem. So it turns out that I need to get a cable modem as well.
The thing is that I'm not the one who is actually paying for internet, so this may not actually end up being a good solution.
With my ISP (Shaw, Canada) I was able to call them and ask them to put my modem/router into "bridged mode", which made it just a modem with a dumb switch and disabled the router portion. They were able to do this over the phone with an OTA firmware patch of some sort, but it wasn't possible to do yourself.
Bridge mode is a really common option with ISP-provided Cable and DSL modems, but I have no idea if that will actually improve reliability or not.
It'll only improve reliability if you're replacing the router portion with something more reliable, which tbh is pretty likely no matter what you do. In my experience modem/wifi router combos tend to have lackluster wifi routers even if they contain decent cablemodems.
Bridged mode should completely bypass the built-in wifi router, and your modem/router combo will act as if it was a regular dumb modem connected to a 4-port switch. If you get another router, no matter what you'll want your modem in bridged mode, otherwise the lousy router will still be routing packets.
What isp do you have? Check their website to see if you can bring your own modem. If so, get an arris surfboard docsis 3.0 or 3.1 modem. Get 3.1 if you have extra cash or may want a really high download speed in the future. I have an arris sb6190, which is rock solid. If you have tv or phone through your isp, you may have to use their modem. This will most likely save you money from renting your isp equipment too.
We lease our U-verse router from Sonic (even though it's AT&T) and it looks like they will be willing to replace it. Maybe try that?
Plugging your own router into the Ethernet jack on theirs would let you control the WiFi side of things.
Does the wired router fail, or just the wireless?
I have a cable box to first router to second router situation, and it works well.
There isn't really a way to tell, honestly. There is no Ethernet wiring in the house.
There is no ethernet port on the cable box???
There are ports. They are just not connected to anything.
Hook them up to a cheap wireless router?
Well, that was sort of the goal when I created this topic. ¯\(◉‿◉)/¯
Yeah, sorry, I like medialink.
I'm a huge fan of Ubiquiti's UniFi line of networking products. These are definitely more geared towards prosumers and enterprise users, so I don't recommend them unless you know what you're doing. They also don't support WiFi 6 yet, and won't until they can guarantee a product that supports it is truly enterprise-ready.
They do have a line of consumer-oriented products called AmpliFi, which I've heard nothing but good things about. The AmpliFi Alien WiFi router supports WiFi 6.
I'm actually very familiar with networking, so I can deal with more advanced features just fine. But to be completely honest, part of why I am looking for a consumer one is that I don't really want to spend a lot of time with configuration. As long as UPnP works and it has basic network management utilities like port forwarding, it's probably going to be just fine.
That AmpliFI Alien router looks really tempting, but it's out of the budget. I know you said it was other people recommending it, but I was wondering what really sets it apart so much as you would recommend it?
Ease of use, reliability, and excellent support from Ubiquiti. That said, I don't know anyone who has the Alien, it's a pretty new product. I do know multiple people who use other AmpliFi routers and access points, and I've heard nothing but good things from them. Basically, Ubiquiti has a reputation for not having the problems you had with Netgear.
That's... honestly pretty compelling. Especially given that I am buying this for longevity. I may actually end up going this way.
I've been using AmpliFi in my home for the past several months, and I've been quite happy with it. WiFi coverage is significantly better in our two-storey home (I've got the base station and one additional mesh point). Setup was super easy thanks to the accompanying app. I wish it could setup a separate network for IoT devices, but other than that it's done everything I wanted it to do.
Let me just chime in with my experience: i have an old airport, the last generation. Super easy setup, rock solid performance lo these many years 2012? It’s ac 1300, so not for you if you are doing lots of big wifi transfers. But for multiple streams plus ordinary usage on several devices simultaneously, totally fine. Covers almost all of a 2500 ft^2 two story house. Bet you could fine one real cheap.
[This may be OT and I apologize, ignore if so]
"I'm running out of time to finish the spend requirements on a credit card promotion. "
I have never had a credit card (I'm in my 40's) and they aren't as common here - but what's this? It sort of peaked my interest the second I read it and I couldn't get past it. Is it like you HAVE to use the credit card to pay for things in advance to get it, or do you get like a smaller sum added to the debt you get from it?
There's actually an entire subreddit dedicated to the practice of "churning", the practice of regularly redeeming bonuses. These credit card promotions (and the general ubiquity of credit cards) appear to be an American phenomenon.
Credit card companies occasionally run incentives to get you to sign up for their credit cards. They require you to spend a certain amount of money to prevent abuse.
Ty for info. It's a subject I don't totally grasp so have other questions but this isn't the time. Sorry for getting OT Akir
This is going to be a slightly different opinion; however, have you considered a used enterprise firewall such as a Fortigate or PaloAlto? You can find a Fortigate 60E on ebay for about $300 and a UTM license is not required. This is a good value to get enterprise features and reliability at home using purpose built hardware. A 60E spec wise, far surpasses what you'll get for the same price in the consumer market. At that point, just throw whatever access point you want on interface and away you go. If you ever want to replace the AP with a new standard it becomes much easier.
To be completely Frank, my bad experiences with Cisco makes me really want to avoid Enterprise equipment altogether. Beyond that, Enterprise equipment tends to be designed for performance, which means that they can also be power hungry, which I am trying to avoid. Worst of all, getting everything I need, even with used equipment, will easily go over budget.
Literally the only reason why I was even considering a Ubiquiti router was because people bend over backwards with praise for them.