13 votes

Windows 10 Ameliorated review

25 comments

  1. [6]
    Comment deleted by author
    Link
    1. [5]
      JXM
      Link Parent
      I 100% agree with the sentiment of your comment. But sadly, some people have to use Windows because of a specific program that's required for work, school or a hobby. If you work in the tech...

      I 100% agree with the sentiment of your comment. But sadly, some people have to use Windows because of a specific program that's required for work, school or a hobby.

      If you work in the tech sector, it's extremely likely that you can get away with using something like Linux as a work OS but for someone like me, who requires Adobe products for my job, you have no choice but to use MacOS or Windows.

      Personally, I went with MacOS because I wanted the Unix underpinnings but Linux was never really an option.

      That said, people should still signal boost and support OSS and keep it in the public conversation.

      12 votes
      1. [4]
        cstby
        Link Parent
        Can we list out some reasons why you would need windows in 2020? I can only think of Adobe products and anti-cheat software for multiplayer games. There have to be other use cases, but I really...

        Can we list out some reasons why you would need windows in 2020? I can only think of Adobe products and anti-cheat software for multiplayer games. There have to be other use cases, but I really don't know what they are.

        1. [2]
          stu2b50
          Link Parent
          A lot them end up just being Adobe-but-for-specific systems Adobe suite Especially video editing But also the rest of it AutoCAD 3D modeling (blender is cool but again some people must use...

          A lot them end up just being Adobe-but-for-specific systems

          • Adobe suite

            • Especially video editing

            • But also the rest of it

          • AutoCAD

          • 3D modeling (blender is cool but again some people must use maya/cinema4d for work)

          • Specific proprietary drivers for old systems

            • CNCs for instance are often very old, and will 100% only support windows for life
          • Video games

            • Proton is cool and all but there's still large swathes that are impractical to play on linux
          • Work

            • Linux is a lot harder for an IT staff to control, and they often will want to do that for work machines, so they can, say, wipe it if it gets stolen or lost
          • People who develop windows GUIs

          • Crusty old software written by scientist

          9 votes
          1. [2]
            Comment deleted by author
            Link Parent
            1. RNG
              Link Parent
              Does RHEL Workstation or SUSE Linux Enterprise Desktop meet HIPAA requirements?

              Does RHEL Workstation or SUSE Linux Enterprise Desktop meet HIPAA requirements?

        2. JXM
          Link Parent
          In addition to the software that ~ stu2b50 listed, there's also tons of custom internal business software that runs on Windows and companies just don't want to pay to have it rewritten because it...

          In addition to the software that ~ stu2b50 listed, there's also tons of custom internal business software that runs on Windows and companies just don't want to pay to have it rewritten because it does exactly what they want and does it the way they want it done.

          There are also tons of industry specific software that require certain privacy certifications that you can only get with Windows software (I'm thinking medical but there are probably other industries too like finance).

          1 vote
  2. [10]
    teaearlgraycold
    Link
    The option I went with personally was to pirate Windows 10 Enterprise LTSC (long-term support channel). I can keep Windows Update enabled and it doesn't come with any bloatware (Candy Crush,...

    The option I went with personally was to pirate Windows 10 Enterprise LTSC (long-term support channel). I can keep Windows Update enabled and it doesn't come with any bloatware (Candy Crush, etc.). In general it seems to be set up exactly who I'd want it. I don't know to what degree the telemetry is disabled, but without my doing anything the Cortana search bar never appeared and web results don't show when I search in the start menu.

    11 votes
    1. [10]
      Comment deleted by author
      Link Parent
      1. [5]
        teaearlgraycold
        Link Parent
        No. I use LTSC for gaming and I believe it even has DX 12 support. It's worked perfectly in the background without any thought from me. If you know for a fact software you use depends on a Win 10...

        No. I use LTSC for gaming and I believe it even has DX 12 support. It's worked perfectly in the background without any thought from me.

        If you know for a fact software you use depends on a Win 10 patch from the last ~12-18 months then I wouldn't expect it to work on LTSC. But otherwise you're good.

        6 votes
        1. psi
          Link Parent
          Notably, this means Game Pass (for PC) is currently incompatible with LTSC.

          If you know for a fact software you use depends on a Win 10 patch from the last ~12-18 months then I wouldn't expect it to work on LTSC.

          Notably, this means Game Pass (for PC) is currently incompatible with LTSC.

          5 votes
        2. [4]
          Comment deleted by author
          Link Parent
          1. teaearlgraycold
            Link Parent
            No need for a whole separate machine. You could install it to an external drive as long as you have one fast enough.

            No need for a whole separate machine. You could install it to an external drive as long as you have one fast enough.

            3 votes
          2. [2]
            unknown user
            Link Parent
            It's highly likely that the apps you need, unless specifically cutting-edge and using the latest capabilities of the system, require no specific new (within a year) updates. If they are...

            It's highly likely that the apps you need, unless specifically cutting-edge and using the latest capabilities of the system, require no specific new (within a year) updates. If they are cutting-edge, they usually say so right away.

            1 vote
            1. [2]
              Comment deleted by author
              Link Parent
              1. unknown user
                Link Parent
                I'm gonna be of no help to you here, I'm afraid. Yes, they're Microsoft's tools, so they might take care in implementing them across a range of systems... oooor they might twist your arm a little...

                I'm gonna be of no help to you here, I'm afraid. Yes, they're Microsoft's tools, so they might take care in implementing them across a range of systems... oooor they might twist your arm a little and tell you to update to the latest because it's their system etc. etc..

                1 vote
      2. pseudolobster
        Link Parent
        I'm not who you asked either but I have some experience running Win 10 LTSB 2016 for about three years. I bought a sketchy volume license key off eBay for ten bucks and never really had any issues...

        I'm not who you asked either but I have some experience running Win 10 LTSB 2016 for about three years. I bought a sketchy volume license key off eBay for ten bucks and never really had any issues with it.

        The only two times it was an issue is once my friend wanted me to try Forza and there was no easy way to install it since it was Store only. Then a second time I was developing an app for a client and needed to install some software for some bio-feedback device, I'm going to say it was a heartrate monitor but I'm not sure. It's software was only available as a "universal app" (ps: god, what a misnomer, it's like PlaysForSure, which only existed to make sure your music wouldn't play unless MS says so) I ended up spending a couple hours trying to get Store installed. Eventually it worked but it was an enormous hassle.

        The infrequency of updates and lack of Cortana were great, though when mainstream Windows got a dark theme I was a bit sad that I didn't.

        I would still be running it except I accidentally got a new laptop with a Xeon processor and it came with
        "Windows 10 for Workstations" which apparently enables some Xeon-specific witchcraft and I figured I'd leave it.

        4 votes
      3. [3]
        rish
        Link Parent
        Different person. I installed it on my sister's low budget Lenovo laptop. It had Windows 10 OEM pre-installed and was really slow and took ages to even boot. I thought of trying LTSC if it runs...

        Different person.

        I installed it on my sister's low budget Lenovo laptop. It had Windows 10 OEM pre-installed and was really slow and took ages to even boot. I thought of trying LTSC if it runs fine.

        We had only three software that had to be installed and running with zero problems - Office 2016, Molegro Virtual Docker, and Chem Draw. Other software with low priority were Krita, Blender, and Chrome (I sneaked in Firefox too). She is happy with her install.

        3 votes
        1. [3]
          Comment deleted by author
          Link Parent
          1. [2]
            admicos
            Link Parent
            On your list of things, the only thing I'd be worried about is WSL. I am not entirely sure if LTSC is updated enough to support v1, and it most likely won't support v2 for some time.

            On your list of things, the only thing I'd be worried about is WSL. I am not entirely sure if LTSC is updated enough to support v1, and it most likely won't support v2 for some time.

            2 votes
            1. teaearlgraycold
              Link Parent
              My LTSC has some form of WSL on it. I don't use it much so I can't say if it works super well.

              My LTSC has some form of WSL on it. I don't use it much so I can't say if it works super well.

              1 vote
  3. [2]
    Comment deleted by author
    Link
    1. Shneebs
      Link Parent
      Whilst I completely agree with you that I wouldn't want to just download and install a modified ISO, they give you the ability to run through all the steps yourself:...
      • Exemplary

      Whilst I completely agree with you that I wouldn't want to just download and install a modified ISO, they give you the ability to run through all the steps yourself:

      https://ameliorated.info/documentation.html

      So you use a valid ISO downloaded from MS themselves along with the associated security patches, installing with DISM is a perfectly valid thing to do.

      The next stuff to do is run the scripts that they link.

      .batch script - https://git.ameliorated.info/attachments/8bdf2c4c-413b-4155-9379-ee02410464bd

      This all looks pretty standard and nothing nefarious. The only bit I'm not a fan of would be the install of chocolaty because I don't want package management on my home PC (I've used this within production environments so it is safe).

      You don't necessarily need to use chocolaty and you can see it's installing the following packages:

      firefox
      thunderbird
      vlc
      youtube-dl
      7zip
      open-shell
      jpegview
      vcredist-all
      directx
      onlyoffice

      You could grab the above manually.

      The next bit to run is the linux script to remove the Windows Update feature which you can read through here - https://git.ameliorated.info/attachments/b35aa265-cb7d-400d-8a61-de15055d2831

      Doing a quick read of this script also doesn't show anything nefarious and is fairly well written (in terms of plain text english commands and not obfuscating them).

      There's some steps that I don't think you'll need to do, such as Classic Shell, Modify Windows 10 Explorer, Cygwin, but all in all, it seems OK and you don't have to perform a lot of the steps. The anti-telemetry stuff is mainly fixed in the bat file.

      12 votes
  4. [2]
    mat
    Link
    So they've removed Windows update. Which essentially makes this a security freeze. Given that Windows is a massive target for the Bad Guys, disabling security updates is.. um.. an interesting...

    So they've removed Windows update. Which essentially makes this a security freeze. Given that Windows is a massive target for the Bad Guys, disabling security updates is.. um.. an interesting decision. Their FAQ says that if you remove admin rights from the default user that will go most of the way to avoiding any security problems as of right now and will even protect against "most foreseeable major future threats" but that sounds.. well, let's go with optimistic and I'm not really a fan of security through wishful thinking as a policy.

    So it's probably safe to use for a couple of months, assuming they haven't inserted any malware of their own or accidentally opened up some shiny new security holes while ripping out other bits. Or perfectly safe for as long as you want provided you maintain a nice air-gap between you and the internet. Personally I would never let a non-fully-updated Windows system anywhere near the internet for any longer than it took to update it.

    Also by removing Cortana, they've killed the search interface into the OS. I love search based interfaces, they're so much faster and more powerful than clicky menus. AME appears to have downgraded the Start menu to something we might find in a decade old operating system.

    Much as it's a nice idea in theory, it doesn't sound like they've done a particularly good job. There must be some kind of software which sits between Windows and the outside world and blackholes all the telemetry, surely? I don't know because I (a) don't care that much and (b) don't run Windows more than a few times a year.

    5 votes
    1. unknown user
      Link Parent
      Windows' default search is pathetically slow. Everything, the app, works a lot better anyway.

      Also by removing Cortana, they've killed the search interface into the OS.

      Windows' default search is pathetically slow. Everything, the app, works a lot better anyway.

      4 votes
  5. weystrom
    Link
    You might be better off using Windows Privacy Dashboard and/or Shutup10. Both use a combination of registry/group policy changes (WPD also contains a firewall filter list) that help combat...

    You might be better off using Windows Privacy Dashboard and/or Shutup10.

    Both use a combination of registry/group policy changes (WPD also contains a firewall filter list) that help combat unwanted Microsoft "features".

    4 votes
  6. [2]
    Whom
    Link
    So I recently discovered I had a Windows partition sitting around that GRUB wasn't detecting, and so I've been using it occasionally for some games with anticheats or whatever that keep them from...

    So I recently discovered I had a Windows partition sitting around that GRUB wasn't detecting, and so I've been using it occasionally for some games with anticheats or whatever that keep them from running properly in WINE. It's been a pretty awful experience for all the obvious reasons Windows 10 is a slow, bloated, awful, scattered mess. I've just felt like shit keeping it around. So last night after seeing this post, I installed this over my old W10 and have been messing around with it since.

    I won't move back to Windows, since I'm far too in love with Linux at this point, but this returns Windows to a point where it feels usable again. Like Windows 7 levels of bullshit instead of 8 and 10. Manageable bullshit. There's so much less clutter, everything is infinitely snappier, the design mimics classic Windows and I'm not dealing with it resetting my settings every 15 minutes. The telemetry being gone also just makes it feel less icky. From the short period I've used it, hugely recommended to just about anyone who can't leave Windows entirely. It's still a shit OS, but at least this makes it bearable.

    Thanks for posting @cfabbro! Also if anyone has questions about the experience that a not-super-technical user can answer, please feel free to ask.

    4 votes
    1. cfabbro
      (edited )
      Link Parent
      Awesome, I was hoping someone would try it out so I could hear their opinion on it! :P I am gradually using WSL 2 more and more these days, so I probably couldn't do this myself given it's based...

      Awesome, I was hoping someone would try it out so I could hear their opinion on it! :P

      I am gradually using WSL 2 more and more these days, so I probably couldn't do this myself given it's based on the old 1903 build, which doesn't include it (although MS has backported WSL 2 to 1903, so it may be possible to have both!). Regardless, at the very least I'm tempted to try to replicate some of the processes from the "Build Yourself" guide to remove all the cruft from Win 10 that I despise (e.g. Cortana). I already installed OldNewExplorer, which they also use in AME, and it's great!

      2 votes
  7. Moonchild
    Link
    I've always thought it would be interesting to run the reactos userland with the windows 10 nt kernel, core drivers, and core libraries (e.g. win32). It should, in principle, give the best...

    I've always thought it would be interesting to run the reactos userland with the windows 10 nt kernel, core drivers, and core libraries (e.g. win32). It should, in principle, give the best possible experience and compatibility of any windows.

    2 votes
  8. cstby
    Link
    As much as I want to love this idea, the review was not very positive..

    As much as I want to love this idea, the review was not very positive..

  9. TildeMan
    Link
    This is cool, but if you're using a CPU that was made after 2008, it has a L0 backdoor built in to the CPU (Intel Management Engine or TrustZone). If your threat model includes being targeted...

    This is cool, but if you're using a CPU that was made after 2008, it has a L0 backdoor built in to the CPU (Intel Management Engine or TrustZone). If your threat model includes being targeted through windows update or other official microsoft channels (as in, not programs that you downloaded yourself), this really won't do much.