Every part of this is awful, but for some reason this one stuck out to me: These aren't goodwill gestures, these are corrections of billing mistakes made by the parent company. There is no...
Every part of this is awful, but for some reason this one stuck out to me:
if she determined a customer was indeed owed money, any refunds or deductions had to average less than $2.50 per call.
These aren't goodwill gestures, these are corrections of billing mistakes made by the parent company. There is no possible justification for limiting them in any way. But under these terms, if the company is incorrectly billing their customers (something that ISPs, particularly, have been in court for on multiple occasions), it becomes the phone operator's problem; the company can be doing so systematically and intentionally, yet the sub-sub-subcontractor is explicitly on the hook not to correct these errors.
In case of doubt, that just makes for very hostile client-company relationships. They billed too much and phone support can't help me? Boo hoo, I have to press a few buttons on my phone to claw...
In case of doubt, that just makes for very hostile client-company relationships. They billed too much and phone support can't help me? Boo hoo, I have to press a few buttons on my phone to claw the money back.
Frankly, at that point, why bother with phone support for these problems? This is the kind of shit that makes me lose any and all goodwill towards companies. Yeah, I'll sit on my ass for a few minutes while you find a free customer service rep in the call center. But if the company is actively eroding my pathways of resolving stuff peacefully, that's when the peaceful part has to go, because stuff will have to be resolved.
Methinks capitalism has turned from "squeeze as much profit out of a business by outsmarting the competition" to "squeeze as much profit out of a business by outsmarting the customer". 1 Either the power of corps needs to cut to size, customers need to get smarter or more regulation is needed.
Fucking disgusting.
1: The german ISP market is dominated by a whole shit ton of new customer bonuses. You'll pay half for the first year and get a 100€ cash bonus on signup, but you're bound to a ridiculous rate for 2 years and have once-a-year cancelling terms. WTF? Just charge me what it costs you to get me hooked up and give me a reasonably priced monthly rate. Give me the most lenient cancelling terms to further compete with the others. But instead this? You can't tell me that me going to a different ISP every two years is the most efficient solution to this market.
In High School, I worked for an ISP (cellular company.) The way to get what you want on a phone call is to continuously escalate until someone is able to help you. Each level above your current...
In High School, I worked for an ISP (cellular company.) The way to get what you want on a phone call is to continuously escalate until someone is able to help you. Each level above your current one has a larger pool of cash they can use at their discretion to resolve issues, along with greater powers to adjust your plan (give you a "legacy" plan that you were unintentionally dropped from, give you a monthly credit, offer expired deals, etc.)
I feel that these companies are conditioning consumers to act like the "Karen" stereotype where "let me speak to your manager" is the key method by which a consumer can resolve a mistake made at a lower level by a business.
Whenever I try to escalate during a support call, they always pull tricks like, "OK let me put you on hold and see what I can do." And before I can object and say that, no, I want to be connected...
Whenever I try to escalate during a support call, they always pull tricks like, "OK let me put you on hold and see what I can do." And before I can object and say that, no, I want to be connected to someone else who can actually fix this, I'm on hold. They come back and shockingly were unable to get anyone who could help, or unable to do the thing that needed done. When I eventually get to ask to talk directly to someone higher up they either say they can't, or they pretend to transfer me and actually hang up on me. It's pretty pathetic.
That's where escalating rudeness unfortunately increases the chances you will speak to a supervisor. It's a horrible system, but customers who are angry enough to shout at a subordinate are...
That's where escalating rudeness unfortunately increases the chances you will speak to a supervisor. It's a horrible system, but customers who are angry enough to shout at a subordinate are triaged as the most likely to need help at a higher level.
Companies reward "Karen"-like behavior. This probably has something to do with why American consumers are so godawful to folks in the service industry.
I had a coworker who used to go through this routine with service people. He'd call and be super polite, but not condescendingly so, and about 10% of the time that was all he had to do and the...
I had a coworker who used to go through this routine with service people. He'd call and be super polite, but not condescendingly so, and about 10% of the time that was all he had to do and the problem was solved. But the other 90% of the time, he'd quickly escalate until he was pretty much screaming into the phone. I've often wondered if that's a better strategy?
So "employees" are better off financially if they are "fired?" That seems like a perverse incentive to do the wrong thing.
Davenport quit in November 2018 after working for about a month. She then received a final invoice from Client Virtual Solutions. In her last two weeks Davenport had worked 23.2 hours, earning $278.40. From that amount, $69.95 was taken out as a charge for Arise’s and Client Virtual Solutions’ services. On top of that, Client Virtual Solutions added another charge. The invoice deducted $150 as a “Contract Termination Fee.”
Krystin Davenport’s final pay stub from Client Virtual Solutions. (Obtained by ProPublica)
Davenport’s total pay came to $58.45. Per hour, that’s about $2.52.
So "employees" are better off financially if they are "fired?" That seems like a perverse incentive to do the wrong thing.
The random drug testing one has always seemed odd to me as well. Either they're performing up to standard, in which case I honestly don't see why the employer would care about their drug habits,...
The random drug testing one has always seemed odd to me as well. Either they're performing up to standard, in which case I honestly don't see why the employer would care about their drug habits, or they aren't, in which case there's cause to request a test and/or end their employment anyway. What does the employer stand to gain by testing otherwise successful employees?
This story was a collaboration with Planet Money so if you prefer podcasts you can listen to this story instead of reading it here: https://www.npr.org/2020/09/29/918195277/call-center-call-out
So far in my career there's one thing I've learned whenever freelancing or providing services to others that I'm the one responsible billing for: If you're paying me as a company and not me as an...
So far in my career there's one thing I've learned whenever freelancing or providing services to others that I'm the one responsible billing for:
If you're paying me as a company and not me as an employee, you pay twice the rate.
That extra rate is for all the training, taxes, incorporation expenses, the auditor, pension savings, the venue and equipment of a business, unbillable hours as a contractor, vacation time, company profit to the owner(s) (me), healthcare for employees, and so on... and RISK.
In my field, a sizeable portion are willing to pay double for them not to have to payroll me and give me all the benefits and security I'd have.
Others strongly prefer a regular contract of employment and the rights that gives them as an employer.
I'd never have the stomach to freelance full-time. It's just too lucrative to be an employee when you're in demand. I can demand to gig on the side, scaling overtime pay that increases the more OT I have and all sorts of things that I couldn't dream of otherwise.
I know some thrive off high risk, high reward. I'd much rather make some less money and not have to ever worry about what I do if I don't land my next contract/job/gig.
I agree that independent contractors should structure their billing because of the items you mention. Unfortunately, the labor supply for jobs like these is too big to accommodate higher wages....
I agree that independent contractors should structure their billing because of the items you mention. Unfortunately, the labor supply for jobs like these is too big to accommodate higher wages. There is an extreme power inbalance, which is why I support stronger worker protections from a government.
While what you said is a decent principle to try to abide by, it's only really possible to do so if you're in the privileged position where you can decline a job offer. And I imagine most of the...
While what you said is a decent principle to try to abide by, it's only really possible to do so if you're in the privileged position where you can decline a job offer. And I imagine most of the people working for Arise in this exploited capacity didn't feel they had that option. Which is likely a similar reason why so many of those "work from home!" scams are still so successful despite being pretty obviously scams to most of us; They (and this company) prey on desperate people who don't know any better, and don't have a whole lot of other options for gainful employment.
Exactly. These companies know that if you’re desperate enough to work for them, you’ve likely run out of other options. They can (and do) use that to their advantage. As do most employers who...
Exactly. These companies know that if you’re desperate enough to work for them, you’ve likely run out of other options. They can (and do) use that to their advantage. As do most employers who specialize in low paying jobs.
I noticed in recent years that most of my customer support calls were with American accented workers. I guess this explains how they are able to do it so cheaply.
I noticed in recent years that most of my customer support calls were with American accented workers. I guess this explains how they are able to do it so cheaply.
The extremely low level workers being exploited and described in this article probably don't know what Glassdoor even is. The nondisclosure agreements those contractors are required to sign, which...
The extremely low level workers being exploited and described in this article probably don't know what Glassdoor even is. The nondisclosure agreements those employees contractors are required to sign, which even made them extremely wary of talking to ProPublica, might also have something to do with the lack of negative reviews. And Arise simply running an astroturfing campaign is also a strong possibility as well IMO, especially given how shady their behavior elsewhere has been.
Elections have consequences. (Hey, person reading this comment, yes, YOU, you should register to vote right now. Does your state require you mail something in? Boohoo cry me a river, print it off...
But three months later, the United States elected Donald Trump president. Trump nominated Neil Gorsuch to the U.S. Supreme Court. In May 2018, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled, in Epic Systems Corp. v. Lewis, that federal law allows corporations to use arbitration clauses that bar employees from class-action lawsuits. The vote was 5-4, with Gorsuch writing the majority opinion.
Justice Ruth Bader Ginsberg wrote the dissent. In an oral statement from the bench, she said the effect of the court’s ruling “will be huge under-enforcement of federal and state statutes designed to advance the well being of vulnerable workers.”
In August 2018, Muhl’s ruling in the Arise case was overturned. A three-member panel wrote that in light of the Supreme Court’s Epic Systems ruling, Rice’s claim now had to be dismissed.
Elections have consequences.
(Hey, person reading this comment, yes, YOU, you should register to vote right now. Does your state require you mail something in? Boohoo cry me a river, print it off at work today or go to Staples to get it printed. Turn it in. This is probably the most important thing you'll do in 2020.)
But as a non-citizen abroad, that would be voter fraud. That said, I've briefly talked about my US-citizen SO here. That ballot has been mailed. In spite of all the added bullshit that...
(Hey, person reading this comment, yes, YOU, you should register to vote right now. Does your state require you mail something in? Boohoo cry me a river, print it off at work today or go to Staples to get it printed. Turn it in. This is probably the most important thing you'll do in 2020.)
But as a non-citizen abroad, that would be voter fraud. That said, I've briefly talked about my US-citizen SO here. That ballot has been mailed. In spite of all the added bullshit that international voting brings.
Every part of this is awful, but for some reason this one stuck out to me:
These aren't goodwill gestures, these are corrections of billing mistakes made by the parent company. There is no possible justification for limiting them in any way. But under these terms, if the company is incorrectly billing their customers (something that ISPs, particularly, have been in court for on multiple occasions), it becomes the phone operator's problem; the company can be doing so systematically and intentionally, yet the sub-sub-subcontractor is explicitly on the hook not to correct these errors.
In case of doubt, that just makes for very hostile client-company relationships. They billed too much and phone support can't help me? Boo hoo, I have to press a few buttons on my phone to claw the money back.
Frankly, at that point, why bother with phone support for these problems? This is the kind of shit that makes me lose any and all goodwill towards companies. Yeah, I'll sit on my ass for a few minutes while you find a free customer service rep in the call center. But if the company is actively eroding my pathways of resolving stuff peacefully, that's when the peaceful part has to go, because stuff will have to be resolved.
Methinks capitalism has turned from "squeeze as much profit out of a business by outsmarting the competition" to "squeeze as much profit out of a business by outsmarting the customer". 1 Either the power of corps needs to cut to size, customers need to get smarter or more regulation is needed.
Fucking disgusting.
1: The german ISP market is dominated by a whole shit ton of new customer bonuses. You'll pay half for the first year and get a 100€ cash bonus on signup, but you're bound to a ridiculous rate for 2 years and have once-a-year cancelling terms. WTF? Just charge me what it costs you to get me hooked up and give me a reasonably priced monthly rate. Give me the most lenient cancelling terms to further compete with the others. But instead this? You can't tell me that me going to a different ISP every two years is the most efficient solution to this market.
In High School, I worked for an ISP (cellular company.) The way to get what you want on a phone call is to continuously escalate until someone is able to help you. Each level above your current one has a larger pool of cash they can use at their discretion to resolve issues, along with greater powers to adjust your plan (give you a "legacy" plan that you were unintentionally dropped from, give you a monthly credit, offer expired deals, etc.)
I feel that these companies are conditioning consumers to act like the "Karen" stereotype where "let me speak to your manager" is the key method by which a consumer can resolve a mistake made at a lower level by a business.
Whenever I try to escalate during a support call, they always pull tricks like, "OK let me put you on hold and see what I can do." And before I can object and say that, no, I want to be connected to someone else who can actually fix this, I'm on hold. They come back and shockingly were unable to get anyone who could help, or unable to do the thing that needed done. When I eventually get to ask to talk directly to someone higher up they either say they can't, or they pretend to transfer me and actually hang up on me. It's pretty pathetic.
That's where escalating rudeness unfortunately increases the chances you will speak to a supervisor. It's a horrible system, but customers who are angry enough to shout at a subordinate are triaged as the most likely to need help at a higher level.
Companies reward "Karen"-like behavior. This probably has something to do with why American consumers are so godawful to folks in the service industry.
I had a coworker who used to go through this routine with service people. He'd call and be super polite, but not condescendingly so, and about 10% of the time that was all he had to do and the problem was solved. But the other 90% of the time, he'd quickly escalate until he was pretty much screaming into the phone. I've often wondered if that's a better strategy?
So "employees" are better off financially if they are "fired?" That seems like a perverse incentive to do the wrong thing.
The random drug testing one has always seemed odd to me as well. Either they're performing up to standard, in which case I honestly don't see why the employer would care about their drug habits, or they aren't, in which case there's cause to request a test and/or end their employment anyway. What does the employer stand to gain by testing otherwise successful employees?
This story was a collaboration with Planet Money so if you prefer podcasts you can listen to this story instead of reading it here: https://www.npr.org/2020/09/29/918195277/call-center-call-out
So far in my career there's one thing I've learned whenever freelancing or providing services to others that I'm the one responsible billing for:
That extra rate is for all the training, taxes, incorporation expenses, the auditor, pension savings, the venue and equipment of a business, unbillable hours as a contractor, vacation time, company profit to the owner(s) (me), healthcare for employees, and so on... and RISK.
In my field, a sizeable portion are willing to pay double for them not to have to payroll me and give me all the benefits and security I'd have.
Others strongly prefer a regular contract of employment and the rights that gives them as an employer.
I'd never have the stomach to freelance full-time. It's just too lucrative to be an employee when you're in demand. I can demand to gig on the side, scaling overtime pay that increases the more OT I have and all sorts of things that I couldn't dream of otherwise.
I know some thrive off high risk, high reward. I'd much rather make some less money and not have to ever worry about what I do if I don't land my next contract/job/gig.
I agree that independent contractors should structure their billing because of the items you mention. Unfortunately, the labor supply for jobs like these is too big to accommodate higher wages. There is an extreme power inbalance, which is why I support stronger worker protections from a government.
While what you said is a decent principle to try to abide by, it's only really possible to do so if you're in the privileged position where you can decline a job offer. And I imagine most of the people working for Arise in this exploited capacity didn't feel they had that option. Which is likely a similar reason why so many of those "work from home!" scams are still so successful despite being pretty obviously scams to most of us; They (and this company) prey on desperate people who don't know any better, and don't have a whole lot of other options for gainful employment.
Exactly. These companies know that if you’re desperate enough to work for them, you’ve likely run out of other options. They can (and do) use that to their advantage. As do most employers who specialize in low paying jobs.
I noticed in recent years that most of my customer support calls were with American accented workers. I guess this explains how they are able to do it so cheaply.
Anyone have thoughts on why "employee" reviews Arise on Glassdoor are above average? The reviews seem to include a few independent contractors.
The extremely low level workers being exploited and described in this article probably don't know what Glassdoor even is. The nondisclosure agreements those
employeescontractors are required to sign, which even made them extremely wary of talking to ProPublica, might also have something to do with the lack of negative reviews. And Arise simply running an astroturfing campaign is also a strong possibility as well IMO, especially given how shady their behavior elsewhere has been.Elections have consequences.
(Hey, person reading this comment, yes, YOU, you should register to vote right now. Does your state require you mail something in? Boohoo cry me a river, print it off at work today or go to Staples to get it printed. Turn it in. This is probably the most important thing you'll do in 2020.)
But as a non-citizen abroad, that would be voter fraud. That said, I've briefly talked about my US-citizen SO here. That ballot has been mailed. In spite of all the added bullshit that international voting brings.