I always find these quotes from CPC mouthpieces so amusing. Also, I'm surprised it wasn't already blocked. Ever since 2012 or so things have become more and more difficult internet-wise in China....
What I can tell you is that as a principle, China’s internet is open, and the Chinese government manages internet-related affairs according to law and regulations,” Zhao said.
I always find these quotes from CPC mouthpieces so amusing. Also, I'm surprised it wasn't already blocked. Ever since 2012 or so things have become more and more difficult internet-wise in China. The times of the congress sessions and other sensitive events they'll even block a lot of VPNs. Businesses can still use approved VPNs, which are likely backdoored, but private ones are spotty at best. In Shenzhen you can just get an HK connection. It's so bizarre considering the vast majority of people probably wouldn't use outside products anyways.
Sure. But the US government and a lot of Western governments do the same shit while they advocate for backdoors in secure apps like Signal, too. Every country and politician has their own spin to...
Sure. But the US government and a lot of Western governments do the same shit while they advocate for backdoors in secure apps like Signal, too. Every country and politician has their own spin to make their policies seem righteous. Obviously China is a lot worse with the firewall and so many more things outright banned. But it's also kinda scary to see how many Western countries seem keen on following their example "for the greater good".
The US government advocates for it in that some representatives put forward legislation which mostly gets knocked down in the courts or overturned later on. I wouldn't say they are doing the same...
The US government advocates for it in that some representatives put forward legislation which mostly gets knocked down in the courts or overturned later on. I wouldn't say they are doing the same thing as the Party, though elements in the government are attempting to and the system is working as expected to block their attempts. The Party doesn't even justify it most of the time, just saying stuff like the quote above.
I don't mean to equate the two. But it's more than just some elected representatives in the US, at least. We have Intelligence Officials demanding backdoors during Congressional hearings and we...
I don't mean to equate the two. But it's more than just some elected representatives in the US, at least. We have Intelligence Officials demanding backdoors during Congressional hearings and we already have programs that spy on American citizens' private internet communications and that program has been rubberstamped by the courts.
I don't think such legislation has ever garnered enough support to pass, let alone make it to the courts. IANAL, but I can't imagine how a ban on encryption wouldn't violate the first amendment.
I don't think such legislation has ever garnered enough support to pass, let alone make it to the courts. IANAL, but I can't imagine how a ban on encryption wouldn't violate the first amendment.
I would hope that in addition to a first amendment argument, they would also try a second amendment argument, saying that U.S citizens have a right to bear encryption technology, which is...
I would hope that in addition to a first amendment argument, they would also try a second amendment argument, saying that U.S citizens have a right to bear encryption technology, which is classified as a munition by the government.
I don't think the 2nd amendment argument goes very far except with a specific group of people. There are lots of "munitions" that you cannot legally own. The right to "bare arms" is pretty vague...
I don't think the 2nd amendment argument goes very far except with a specific group of people. There are lots of "munitions" that you cannot legally own. The right to "bare arms" is pretty vague and gets interpreted loosely.
The right to free speech on the other hand has been defended extensively by the Supreme Court, even in cases where it's actively detrimental to society (Citizen's United). I think it's hard to argue that the government dictating what I can and cannot code would not violate my freedom of expression. To make me alter a piece of software of my own design would be akin to forcing a painter to alter one of their works.
Can someone explain the methodology for this type of propaganda? By all means I'm fairly aware that the Chinese people proper are happy with their government for the most part, but they know their...
Can someone explain the methodology for this type of propaganda?
By all means I'm fairly aware that the Chinese people proper are happy with their government for the most part, but they know their internet has restrictions the rest of the world does not. If the people know it, we know, and the government knows it, then my question is this: who are they lying to?
The Russians did this too, as do many authoritarian regimes with maybe the DPRK being infamous for it. What is the benefit of such outrageous lies? Don't get me wrong, every government lies. There's usually a sort of subtly to it or at least an attempt at it even if they're caught with their pants down. If the sun setting tomorrow would make the CCP look bad they'd say "The sun is as bright as it has ever been!" in the middle of a pitch black night.
I lived there a bit less than a year, but this is still only one white American's perspective. And I was only interacting with college students who did well in high school. By and large, they...
I lived there a bit less than a year, but this is still only one white American's perspective. And I was only interacting with college students who did well in high school.
By and large, they don't care. Early school is rigorous, with no time to really spend outside of it. Everyone has to memorize massive amounts of "Xi Jinping thought" verbatim. The propaganda goes deep, self censorship is instilled early (hell I almost didn't write this, and I don't even plan on going back), and the penalties are so high for going against the party that it's better to not. There's massive social pressure to be okay with the current order. And that's understandable! Things are really improving for just about every family in China, within this lifetime. Can you say the same?
The internet is open enough. So don't talk about a certain massacre, big whoop. You've got Amazon, but cheaper and huge, with faster delivery. You've got the ability to talk to any of your friends, start a microblog, whatever you want.
There's also this big idea of "harmony," in that it's better to not rock the boat, and keep society as a whole harmonious. I don't see this in us Americans. We're much more likely to argue or start a fight.
The government is incredibly well coordinated. They make 25 year, 10 year, 5 year, and 1 year plans, and then execute them successfully and on time. The public transportation is well maintained, fast, and clean, and gets you (almost) anywhere in China if you want to go there. This, alongside (if I can be so bold as to speculate) residual Confucian/legalist ideals, contributes to the attitude that your place is below the govt, it's not your job to criticize them, and if you've got a complaint you can take it through the proper channels.
This is also not to mention the nationalism. With all the above, plus being taught from a young age how amazing china is (and how distrustful western news sources are!) it's no wonder who citizens side with. Ugh, that news sources bit. I couldn't challenge a classmate once, because she wouldn't accept my citing anything written in english, or from outside China.
I’m not asking why the people are okay with it, I’m asking why the government still feels a need for this type of propaganda when it seems like it serves no purpose since the people are complacent...
I’m not asking why the people are okay with it, I’m asking why the government still feels a need for this type of propaganda when it seems like it serves no purpose since the people are complacent and they know the truth anyway.
The last time I saw a video where someone asked people about the massacre, like 99% of them it was obvious they knew what it was but refused to talk about it. Through fear of reprisal or trust in...
The last time I saw a video where someone asked people about the massacre, like 99% of them it was obvious they knew what it was but refused to talk about it.
Through fear of reprisal or trust in the government anyway, they seem complacent with the situation so why does the government feel the need for these lies I mean that’s my question. What’s the efficacy of constant lies if people know the truth but don’t care.
Why not “Yeah our internet isn’t open, and we like it like that.” Their people would probably clap for that anyway.
This, in my opinion, is the most accurate. As long as the economy is humming along, and lives are improving, it's not really all that important. The Party does attempt to take care of many of the...
This, in my opinion, is the most accurate. As long as the economy is humming along, and lives are improving, it's not really all that important. The Party does attempt to take care of many of the problems ailing the population. You can see the public works projects going on, the changes in the cities from dilapidated structures to shiny towers, and a bank account that's growing. Why complain and risk your small share of the pie?
This is the reason behind China's faked economic data and growth rates, the Belt and Road initiative, the move back to state owned enterprise (easier to cook the books) and the massive levels of debt.
When the economy crashes, and some day it will, things will get “interesting.”
Ah, I have no idea what they're thinking. They might be saying something different to their citizens than to you and me though, so if I were to speculate I'd start there - what do they gain by...
Ah, I have no idea what they're thinking. They might be saying something different to their citizens than to you and me though, so if I were to speculate I'd start there - what do they gain by saying this to YOU?
This is bad news for humanity, but if anything it improves my estimation of Signal. I know Signal isn't perfect, from UI sluggisness to abandoning their AGPL server code and effectively going...
This is bad news for humanity, but if anything it improves my estimation of Signal. I know Signal isn't perfect, from UI sluggisness to abandoning their AGPL server code and effectively going "closed source". But, they still seem far more secure than the alternatives I could feasibly get my family and friends to migrate over to.
Probably because of whatever this is. Not sure what my man's deal is but he's somehow blowing up some odd goings on at a company into "Americans are two faced liars incapable of comprehending the...
Face is a completely different matter. Signal Messenger LLC has very publicly stated that they are fully open source time and time again. This does not appear to be the case, they seem to be treating the server-side code as if it isn't subject to the GNU AGPL. Releasing updated source-code is very much one of the core requirements of the GNU AGPL license and they aren't doing it. They are, therefore, two-faced liars, and they will never be able to recover from the massive loss of face this disgraceful dishonesty entails. Matthew "Moxie" Rosenfeld, the CEO of Signal Messenger LLC, is an American. Americans typically do not understand face or the importance of face which is likely why he let his and his company's face tarnish beyond they point of no return. Trustworthiness is a word Americans typically do understand. Signal no longer has that either.
Probably because of whatever this is. Not sure what my man's deal is but he's somehow blowing up some odd goings on at a company into "Americans are two faced liars incapable of comprehending the concept of trust."
I always find these quotes from CPC mouthpieces so amusing. Also, I'm surprised it wasn't already blocked. Ever since 2012 or so things have become more and more difficult internet-wise in China. The times of the congress sessions and other sensitive events they'll even block a lot of VPNs. Businesses can still use approved VPNs, which are likely backdoored, but private ones are spotty at best. In Shenzhen you can just get an HK connection. It's so bizarre considering the vast majority of people probably wouldn't use outside products anyways.
Sure. But the US government and a lot of Western governments do the same shit while they advocate for backdoors in secure apps like Signal, too. Every country and politician has their own spin to make their policies seem righteous. Obviously China is a lot worse with the firewall and so many more things outright banned. But it's also kinda scary to see how many Western countries seem keen on following their example "for the greater good".
The US government advocates for it in that some representatives put forward legislation which mostly gets knocked down in the courts or overturned later on. I wouldn't say they are doing the same thing as the Party, though elements in the government are attempting to and the system is working as expected to block their attempts. The Party doesn't even justify it most of the time, just saying stuff like the quote above.
I don't mean to equate the two. But it's more than just some elected representatives in the US, at least. We have Intelligence Officials demanding backdoors during Congressional hearings and we already have programs that spy on American citizens' private internet communications and that program has been rubberstamped by the courts.
I don't think such legislation has ever garnered enough support to pass, let alone make it to the courts. IANAL, but I can't imagine how a ban on encryption wouldn't violate the first amendment.
I would hope that in addition to a first amendment argument, they would also try a second amendment argument, saying that U.S citizens have a right to bear encryption technology, which is classified as a munition by the government.
I don't think the 2nd amendment argument goes very far except with a specific group of people. There are lots of "munitions" that you cannot legally own. The right to "bare arms" is pretty vague and gets interpreted loosely.
The right to free speech on the other hand has been defended extensively by the Supreme Court, even in cases where it's actively detrimental to society (Citizen's United). I think it's hard to argue that the government dictating what I can and cannot code would not violate my freedom of expression. To make me alter a piece of software of my own design would be akin to forcing a painter to alter one of their works.
Can someone explain the methodology for this type of propaganda?
By all means I'm fairly aware that the Chinese people proper are happy with their government for the most part, but they know their internet has restrictions the rest of the world does not. If the people know it, we know, and the government knows it, then my question is this: who are they lying to?
The Russians did this too, as do many authoritarian regimes with maybe the DPRK being infamous for it. What is the benefit of such outrageous lies? Don't get me wrong, every government lies. There's usually a sort of subtly to it or at least an attempt at it even if they're caught with their pants down. If the sun setting tomorrow would make the CCP look bad they'd say "The sun is as bright as it has ever been!" in the middle of a pitch black night.
I lived there a bit less than a year, but this is still only one white American's perspective. And I was only interacting with college students who did well in high school.
By and large, they don't care. Early school is rigorous, with no time to really spend outside of it. Everyone has to memorize massive amounts of "Xi Jinping thought" verbatim. The propaganda goes deep, self censorship is instilled early (hell I almost didn't write this, and I don't even plan on going back), and the penalties are so high for going against the party that it's better to not. There's massive social pressure to be okay with the current order. And that's understandable! Things are really improving for just about every family in China, within this lifetime. Can you say the same?
The internet is open enough. So don't talk about a certain massacre, big whoop. You've got Amazon, but cheaper and huge, with faster delivery. You've got the ability to talk to any of your friends, start a microblog, whatever you want.
There's also this big idea of "harmony," in that it's better to not rock the boat, and keep society as a whole harmonious. I don't see this in us Americans. We're much more likely to argue or start a fight.
The government is incredibly well coordinated. They make 25 year, 10 year, 5 year, and 1 year plans, and then execute them successfully and on time. The public transportation is well maintained, fast, and clean, and gets you (almost) anywhere in China if you want to go there. This, alongside (if I can be so bold as to speculate) residual Confucian/legalist ideals, contributes to the attitude that your place is below the govt, it's not your job to criticize them, and if you've got a complaint you can take it through the proper channels.
This is also not to mention the nationalism. With all the above, plus being taught from a young age how amazing china is (and how distrustful western news sources are!) it's no wonder who citizens side with. Ugh, that news sources bit. I couldn't challenge a classmate once, because she wouldn't accept my citing anything written in english, or from outside China.
Bit of a brain dump, but hope this helps.
I’m not asking why the people are okay with it, I’m asking why the government still feels a need for this type of propaganda when it seems like it serves no purpose since the people are complacent and they know the truth anyway.
The last time I saw a video where someone asked people about the massacre, like 99% of them it was obvious they knew what it was but refused to talk about it.
Through fear of reprisal or trust in the government anyway, they seem complacent with the situation so why does the government feel the need for these lies I mean that’s my question. What’s the efficacy of constant lies if people know the truth but don’t care.
Why not “Yeah our internet isn’t open, and we like it like that.” Their people would probably clap for that anyway.
This, in my opinion, is the most accurate. As long as the economy is humming along, and lives are improving, it's not really all that important. The Party does attempt to take care of many of the problems ailing the population. You can see the public works projects going on, the changes in the cities from dilapidated structures to shiny towers, and a bank account that's growing. Why complain and risk your small share of the pie?
This is the reason behind China's faked economic data and growth rates, the Belt and Road initiative, the move back to state owned enterprise (easier to cook the books) and the massive levels of debt.
When the economy crashes, and some day it will, things will get “interesting.”
Sounds like inculcation?
Ah, I have no idea what they're thinking. They might be saying something different to their citizens than to you and me though, so if I were to speculate I'd start there - what do they gain by saying this to YOU?
Relevant: https://signal.org/blog/help-iran-reconnect/
This is bad news for humanity, but if anything it improves my estimation of Signal. I know Signal isn't perfect, from UI sluggisness to abandoning their AGPL server code and effectively going "closed source". But, they still seem far more secure than the alternatives I could feasibly get my family and friends to migrate over to.
It is a completely valid thing to point out, but I would avoid linking to that particular source.
How come?
Probably because of whatever this is. Not sure what my man's deal is but he's somehow blowing up some odd goings on at a company into "Americans are two faced liars incapable of comprehending the concept of trust."
Yeah, fair enough. I got it from HackerNews originally, but should have looked for alternatives.
Shouldn't be a surprise - especially given the Great Firewall. Can't have anything that would disrupt their propaganda.