No. There's a "reasonably active" unofficial Discord server for Tildes, but that's it. Honestly, chat rooms just cause the formation of cliques and fracturing of community.
No.
There's a "reasonably active" unofficial Discord server for Tildes, but that's it. Honestly, chat rooms just cause the formation of cliques and fracturing of community.
I'd say a public chat room like IRC, maybe with an up to date log wouldn't hurt the community much. You can still easily link it in as if it was an integral part of the community. Maybe with a bit...
Honestly, chat rooms just cause the formation of cliques and fracturing of community.
I'd say a public chat room like IRC, maybe with an up to date log wouldn't hurt the community much. You can still easily link it in as if it was an integral part of the community. Maybe with a bit more technical integration than just "this URL is tildes' IRC; have fun."
But yeah, with how it is right now; an unofficial, non-discoverable discord server, it fractures the community. It can be incredibly harmful to the community if posts on tildes spawn a parallel discussion on discord that only some of the people can see. I could get shat on over here because someone misread my post and shared that misinterpretation on discord, and everyone there went along with it. I can't even clarify that misunderstanding, because I don't even necessarily know that it exists, or any relevant details about the conversation on discord.
Does that actually happen, you might ask. And, well, by the very nature of the problem I couldn't give you a satisfactory answer. But I'm pretty sure it's happened at least once.
I think tildes sits in an awkward spot of its size there, where these parallel communities can easily grow big enough without fully splitting off that they can't just be shrugged off, but at the same time tildes isn't small enough or homogeneous enough for it to just have a monolithic community.
Given how the unofficial Tildes discord server eventually turned out, as a haven for banned users to still have a venue to talk shit about the site, I disagree. That’s one of the major reasons I...
I'd say a public chat room like IRC, maybe with an up to date log wouldn't hurt the community much
Given how the unofficial Tildes discord server eventually turned out, as a haven for banned users to still have a venue to talk shit about the site, I disagree. That’s one of the major reasons I left the Discord and never recommend it anymore despite being an advocate for it before. And also why I strongly advise against an IRC channel too.
I'll be honest, it's been basically dead for months, so you're not missing much. I would put it that there is effectively no Discord for Tildes right now.
I'll be honest, it's been basically dead for months, so you're not missing much. I would put it that there is effectively no Discord for Tildes right now.
Hm I’m not sure I’d extrapolate it to be an issue with Discord. There is a general tendency towards selection bias for the negative. For instance, the bill Simmons subreddit (ostensibly) hates the...
Hm I’m not sure I’d extrapolate it to be an issue with Discord. There is a general tendency towards selection bias for the negative. For instance, the bill Simmons subreddit (ostensibly) hates the dude, despite not only spending multiple hours a week listening to his voice voluntarily and then voluntarily spending more hours writing Reddit posts about him.
I think it's less an issue with Discord and more an issue of moderation and community building. The few discord servers I am on at this point have had pretty minimal drama, violations, etc. The...
I think it's less an issue with Discord and more an issue of moderation and community building. The few discord servers I am on at this point have had pretty minimal drama, violations, etc. The bits of drama they did have were mostly handled swiftly by mods.
I have been on servers where that is not the case, or the mod knows people and starts taking sides and getting personally involved. So, sure, it can go downhill, but it's not really a fault of the platform.
If a server is properly run with good mods that swiftly take care of issues and rules violations, and especially importantly (IMHO), keep an eye on things to ensure all "public" (non-DM) communications are respectful and not clique-ish/gatekeep-y/etc I think overall you can end up with a solid result.
One of the servers I am currently in is one of my favorite places to be online by far. It is very welcoming, positive, LGBTQIA+ safe, etc and in general the atmosphere fostered there is a rare gem.
Oh, for sure, it's a moderation problem rather than a platform problem. That's the downside to having all of these highly partitioned communities. Most of the Discord communities I have seen are...
Oh, for sure, it's a moderation problem rather than a platform problem. That's the downside to having all of these highly partitioned communities. Most of the Discord communities I have seen are fairly small, and I think it really takes a degree of active participants until it becomes apparant to the users that moderation is required.
Yeah, that's a fair point. My point was more that if it's public, at least it's transparent. As in, the shadowy "maybe someone is shit-talking my posts on the site right now" can be easily...
Yeah, that's a fair point. My point was more that if it's public, at least it's transparent. As in, the shadowy "maybe someone is shit-talking my posts on the site right now" can be easily checked. I accept that doesn't make it harmless, just removes one of multiple negative influences.
I guess what I'm imagining is more of a chat segment that's officially part of the site? Like, one of the main reasons for the discord to even exist is to have an outlet for lower-effort, less serious content. And that's valid, but not if it leads to fracturing. I'm not convinced that's necessarily a good idea as far as I've sketched it out here, but maybe that can be done without causing bigger issues.
And who is going to moderate this IRC channel? Because whoever it is, unless they’re monitoring it and Tildes non-stop (which I sure as hell don’t want to be responsible for), and are in lockstep...
And who is going to moderate this IRC channel? Because whoever it is, unless they’re monitoring it and Tildes non-stop (which I sure as hell don’t want to be responsible for), and are in lockstep with the moderation decisions here on Tildes, it’s just going to lead to the exact same issues that the Discord experienced.
The only way to avoid the bad parts of an external chatroom would be for it to have moderation with the same principles that govern Tildes -- but if that was the case, the appeal of an external...
The only way to avoid the bad parts of an external chatroom would be for it to have moderation with the same principles that govern Tildes -- but if that was the case, the appeal of an external chatroom would be greatly (although not completely) diminished.
I disagree. The Tildes Discord was largely governed with the same core principles as the site… and the mods there are good people, and did the best they could. However the mods there were also not...
I disagree. The Tildes Discord was largely governed with the same core principles as the site… and the mods there are good people, and did the best they could. However the mods there were also not privy to everything that happens here on Tildes, and so when someone did something ban worthy here, especially if it was behind the scenes (e.g. sending an insulting, profanity laden PM to someone), the full extent of that user’s transgressions was not (and could not) be shown to the mods. And so long as that user behaved on the Discord, the mods had no reason to similarly ban them there. And that is ultimately what led to users still being able to hang around on the Discord long after they were banned from Tildes.
That makes sense. For that to work, Discord mods should follow Tildes closely so they can act in ways that reinforce moderation instead of undermining it. It probably doesn't help that, to my...
That makes sense. For that to work, Discord mods should follow Tildes closely so they can act in ways that reinforce moderation instead of undermining it.
It probably doesn't help that, to my knowledge, there isn't a moderation log they can access.
There isn’t a full moderation log (other than the topic log, which doesn’t show everything), and unfortunately there also can’t be one without violating Tildes core user privacy principles. Even...
There isn’t a full moderation log (other than the topic log, which doesn’t show everything), and unfortunately there also can’t be one without violating Tildes core user privacy principles. Even assholes who make other people’s lives here miserable before they get banned have a right to not have all their actions aired out like dirty laundry for all to inspect.
It would probably be easier to make the Discord "official" and require members to link their account to their Tildes account somehow. Use a bot to automatically ban users from the Discord when...
It would probably be easier to make the Discord "official" and require members to link their account to their Tildes account somehow. Use a bot to automatically ban users from the Discord when they are banned from Tildes, but have Discord-specific moderators to moderate the conversations that take place there?
Moderation and transparency aside, even if it was all good times, simply having a side-channel for casual chat that only a small subset of the user base will actively participate in has a high...
Moderation and transparency aside, even if it was all good times, simply having a side-channel for casual chat that only a small subset of the user base will actively participate in has a high probability of leading to cliques. People talking back and forth - the rate of exchange, the casual and intimate nature of the medium, the fewer names to try to remember - will naturally bond and become closer over time than people just posting/commenting on the main site. Even if that just means the chat-users appear closer and more friendly to each other when interacting on the main site, it can be off-putting to others. Newer members may feel overwhelmed trying to brake into what seems like a tight-knit group, or notice it’s just a clique and worry about staying on their good side since to avoid conflict.
I guess that makes sense, especially for a smaller community like this. I was curious because I was pretty sure someone had set something up seeing how tech-aligned most of the folks here are :)
I guess that makes sense, especially for a smaller community like this. I was curious because I was pretty sure someone had set something up seeing how tech-aligned most of the folks here are :)
Unfortunately, IRC is legacy tech right now. I used it when system resources where a concern for me, with the new computer Discord is a no-brainer. There is an unofficial Tildes Discord that you...
Unfortunately, IRC is legacy tech right now. I used it when system resources where a concern for me, with the new computer Discord is a no-brainer.
There is an unofficial Tildes Discord that you can find by using the search function but it is largely for people that don't like Tildes. So you may or may not find it useful for you.
I still use IRC, so I would support having at least a channel on an existing IRC network. A full blown server would require maintenance and combatting malicious activity. That said, it seems that...
I still use IRC, so I would support having at least a channel on an existing IRC network. A full blown server would require maintenance and combatting malicious activity.
That said, it seems that a lot of communities these days use some modern alternative, like Discord, gitter, etc. I'm not sure how much uptake there would be with tech as old as IRC.
No.
There's a "reasonably active" unofficial Discord server for Tildes, but that's it. Honestly, chat rooms just cause the formation of cliques and fracturing of community.
I'd say a public chat room like IRC, maybe with an up to date log wouldn't hurt the community much. You can still easily link it in as if it was an integral part of the community. Maybe with a bit more technical integration than just "this URL is tildes' IRC; have fun."
But yeah, with how it is right now; an unofficial, non-discoverable discord server, it fractures the community. It can be incredibly harmful to the community if posts on tildes spawn a parallel discussion on discord that only some of the people can see. I could get shat on over here because someone misread my post and shared that misinterpretation on discord, and everyone there went along with it. I can't even clarify that misunderstanding, because I don't even necessarily know that it exists, or any relevant details about the conversation on discord.
Does that actually happen, you might ask. And, well, by the very nature of the problem I couldn't give you a satisfactory answer. But I'm pretty sure it's happened at least once.
I think tildes sits in an awkward spot of its size there, where these parallel communities can easily grow big enough without fully splitting off that they can't just be shrugged off, but at the same time tildes isn't small enough or homogeneous enough for it to just have a monolithic community.
Given how the unofficial Tildes discord server eventually turned out, as a haven for banned users to still have a venue to talk shit about the site, I disagree. That’s one of the major reasons I left the Discord and never recommend it anymore despite being an advocate for it before. And also why I strongly advise against an IRC channel too.
I'll be honest, it's been basically dead for months, so you're not missing much. I would put it that there is effectively no Discord for Tildes right now.
Honestly, that's pretty much every Discord server I've ever joined. People generally act pretty poorly on that platform.
Hm I’m not sure I’d extrapolate it to be an issue with Discord. There is a general tendency towards selection bias for the negative. For instance, the bill Simmons subreddit (ostensibly) hates the dude, despite not only spending multiple hours a week listening to his voice voluntarily and then voluntarily spending more hours writing Reddit posts about him.
The final stage of a subreddit's life cycle is always the hate sub. Some take longer than others, but eventually, they all get there.
I think it's less an issue with Discord and more an issue of moderation and community building. The few discord servers I am on at this point have had pretty minimal drama, violations, etc. The bits of drama they did have were mostly handled swiftly by mods.
I have been on servers where that is not the case, or the mod knows people and starts taking sides and getting personally involved. So, sure, it can go downhill, but it's not really a fault of the platform.
If a server is properly run with good mods that swiftly take care of issues and rules violations, and especially importantly (IMHO), keep an eye on things to ensure all "public" (non-DM) communications are respectful and not clique-ish/gatekeep-y/etc I think overall you can end up with a solid result.
One of the servers I am currently in is one of my favorite places to be online by far. It is very welcoming, positive, LGBTQIA+ safe, etc and in general the atmosphere fostered there is a rare gem.
Oh, for sure, it's a moderation problem rather than a platform problem. That's the downside to having all of these highly partitioned communities. Most of the Discord communities I have seen are fairly small, and I think it really takes a degree of active participants until it becomes apparant to the users that moderation is required.
Yeah, that's a fair point. My point was more that if it's public, at least it's transparent. As in, the shadowy "maybe someone is shit-talking my posts on the site right now" can be easily checked. I accept that doesn't make it harmless, just removes one of multiple negative influences.
I guess what I'm imagining is more of a chat segment that's officially part of the site? Like, one of the main reasons for the discord to even exist is to have an outlet for lower-effort, less serious content. And that's valid, but not if it leads to fracturing. I'm not convinced that's necessarily a good idea as far as I've sketched it out here, but maybe that can be done without causing bigger issues.
And who is going to moderate this IRC channel? Because whoever it is, unless they’re monitoring it and Tildes non-stop (which I sure as hell don’t want to be responsible for), and are in lockstep with the moderation decisions here on Tildes, it’s just going to lead to the exact same issues that the Discord experienced.
The only way to avoid the bad parts of an external chatroom would be for it to have moderation with the same principles that govern Tildes -- but if that was the case, the appeal of an external chatroom would be greatly (although not completely) diminished.
I disagree. The Tildes Discord was largely governed with the same core principles as the site… and the mods there are good people, and did the best they could. However the mods there were also not privy to everything that happens here on Tildes, and so when someone did something ban worthy here, especially if it was behind the scenes (e.g. sending an insulting, profanity laden PM to someone), the full extent of that user’s transgressions was not (and could not) be shown to the mods. And so long as that user behaved on the Discord, the mods had no reason to similarly ban them there. And that is ultimately what led to users still being able to hang around on the Discord long after they were banned from Tildes.
That makes sense. For that to work, Discord mods should follow Tildes closely so they can act in ways that reinforce moderation instead of undermining it.
It probably doesn't help that, to my knowledge, there isn't a moderation log they can access.
There isn’t a full moderation log (other than the topic log, which doesn’t show everything), and unfortunately there also can’t be one without violating Tildes core user privacy principles. Even assholes who make other people’s lives here miserable before they get banned have a right to not have all their actions aired out like dirty laundry for all to inspect.
That is totally understandable.
It would probably be easier to make the Discord "official" and require members to link their account to their Tildes account somehow. Use a bot to automatically ban users from the Discord when they are banned from Tildes, but have Discord-specific moderators to moderate the conversations that take place there?
Moderation and transparency aside, even if it was all good times, simply having a side-channel for casual chat that only a small subset of the user base will actively participate in has a high probability of leading to cliques. People talking back and forth - the rate of exchange, the casual and intimate nature of the medium, the fewer names to try to remember - will naturally bond and become closer over time than people just posting/commenting on the main site. Even if that just means the chat-users appear closer and more friendly to each other when interacting on the main site, it can be off-putting to others. Newer members may feel overwhelmed trying to brake into what seems like a tight-knit group, or notice it’s just a clique and worry about staying on their good side since to avoid conflict.
I guess that makes sense, especially for a smaller community like this. I was curious because I was pretty sure someone had set something up seeing how tech-aligned most of the folks here are :)
Unfortunately, IRC is legacy tech right now. I used it when system resources where a concern for me, with the new computer Discord is a no-brainer.
There is an unofficial Tildes Discord that you can find by using the search function but it is largely for people that don't like Tildes. So you may or may not find it useful for you.
Is it still run by people who went to make their own site? I thought they would have closed down the Tildes one.
I don't know but it's easy to get the vibe just by quickly scanning the Discord.
What website is this?
I think it was Yeehaw or something?
beehaw.org I believe
Yes.
I still use IRC, so I would support having at least a channel on an existing IRC network. A full blown server would require maintenance and combatting malicious activity.
That said, it seems that a lot of communities these days use some modern alternative, like Discord, gitter, etc. I'm not sure how much uptake there would be with tech as old as IRC.
There’s a matrix server for tildes, but not official. I don’t have a link offhand and would have to go searching.