27 votes

The "standard" car charger is usually overkill

23 comments

  1. [6]
    OBLIVIATER
    Link
    Great video by the brown jacket guy going over why almost no one actually needs these huge outlets to charge their cars.

    Great video by the brown jacket guy going over why almost no one actually needs these huge outlets to charge their cars.

    10 votes
    1. [5]
      Englerdy
      Link Parent
      We love Brown Jacket guy. <3 Started this and going to have to come back this afternoon, but thanks for sharing. Just a quick thought. I own an EV and don't have any access to charging in my...

      We love Brown Jacket guy. <3 Started this and going to have to come back this afternoon, but thanks for sharing.

      Just a quick thought. I own an EV and don't have any access to charging in my townhome (no garage and the HOA would get grumpy if I regularly ran an extension cord over the sidewalk). So I rely on charging at work once or twice a week and a fast charge on the rare occasion life gets really hectic. It's surprisingly not that hard to own an EV even if you can't charge at home with my commute pattern. That said, I really look forward to moving into a place where I can plug the car in at home. However, I'm not convinced I'll be in any rush to run 220V to a charger if there's not already a convenient one near the car. I use the 120V portable cable while visiting my parents over holidays and it's clear that if I can plug the car in overnight regularly to 120V I'd basically never need to seek out external charging. Even on a high usage week I think the car would be able to catch up over the weekend.

      Managing range on an EV is really a different game than planning when to fuel a regular car. Not really stressful in my experience though.

      13 votes
      1. [2]
        ackables
        Link Parent
        I bet it will be nice to have the option to charge at home, but if charging at work is going well, why not keep doing that? Free electricity at work is hard to beat.

        I bet it will be nice to have the option to charge at home, but if charging at work is going well, why not keep doing that? Free electricity at work is hard to beat.

        3 votes
        1. Englerdy
          Link Parent
          Unfortunately not free in this case and it would definitely be cheaper at home overnight. The chargers are ChargePoint and available to the public. That said, the per kWh price isn't that bad (I...

          Unfortunately not free in this case and it would definitely be cheaper at home overnight. The chargers are ChargePoint and available to the public. That said, the per kWh price isn't that bad (I think it was like $0.23 last I looked), but my overnight rate at home is like $0.12.

          But as a tertiary point, either of those rates still result in way cheaper per mile costs than gas would be.

          3 votes
      2. [2]
        clayh
        Link Parent
        It depends a lot on what kind of EV you get. A Tesla Model 3 requires far less electricity to charge fully than a Rivian R1S, for example.

        It depends a lot on what kind of EV you get. A Tesla Model 3 requires far less electricity to charge fully than a Rivian R1S, for example.

        2 votes
        1. Englerdy
          Link Parent
          Certainly true, I'm driving a Bolt for reference so definitely not as energy demanding.

          Certainly true, I'm driving a Bolt for reference so definitely not as energy demanding.

          3 votes
  2. [6]
    gowestyoungman
    Link
    Im convinced that the reason our little 24 kW battery Fiat 500e has seen zero drop in range after 7 years of use is that we only charge it on 120v overnight. Its like trickle charging a battery....

    Im convinced that the reason our little 24 kW battery Fiat 500e has seen zero drop in range after 7 years of use is that we only charge it on 120v overnight. Its like trickle charging a battery. It never gets stressed and I anticipate many more years use out of it. I did modify a plug so we could charge it on 240v but we never use it as the 120v works just fine.

    7 votes
    1. [5]
      ButteredToast
      Link Parent
      What’s real world range on those? Was considering buying one last year because I never drive that far, but was spooked about razor thin margins on longer trips, particularly in the colder months....

      What’s real world range on those? Was considering buying one last year because I never drive that far, but was spooked about razor thin margins on longer trips, particularly in the colder months. Same for other small EVs of the era (i-Miev, e-Golf, i3, etc).

      3 votes
      1. [2]
        DeaconBlue
        Link Parent
        e-Golf with 20kWh battery here - I can do ~90 miles in the summer and like ~60 in the winter. That's all in-town driving, highway will cut that a bit.

        e-Golf with 20kWh battery here - I can do ~90 miles in the summer and like ~60 in the winter. That's all in-town driving, highway will cut that a bit.

        4 votes
        1. ButteredToast
          Link Parent
          Thanks, might see if there’s any deals on those when my lease is up later this year. There’s a lot of appeal in those in how they’re just normal Golfs that happen to be electric.

          Thanks, might see if there’s any deals on those when my lease is up later this year. There’s a lot of appeal in those in how they’re just normal Golfs that happen to be electric.

          2 votes
      2. [2]
        gowestyoungman
        Link Parent
        Real world 120 km in summer, but only 80 km in the -25c we regularly hit in winter. We actually don't use it from Nov to Mar because it's too cold and there's too much snow. But it's a brilliant...

        Real world 120 km in summer, but only 80 km in the -25c we regularly hit in winter. We actually don't use it from Nov to Mar because it's too cold and there's too much snow. But it's a brilliant little city car. Solid components built by Bosch, cheap body built by Fiat.

        The original VW eGolf has similar range but is a much more refined interior and can seat 4. The Fiat can seat 2 plus 2 undersized kiddos.

        2 votes
        1. DeaconBlue
          Link Parent
          This comment will be just noise, but your numbers threw me at first. I was shocked that you were able to actually pull 5 miles/kWh in practice. Then I read it a few more times and saw the "km" and...

          This comment will be just noise, but your numbers threw me at first. I was shocked that you were able to actually pull 5 miles/kWh in practice.

          Then I read it a few more times and saw the "km" and remembered you were Canadian.

          3 votes
  3. [11]
    Fiachra
    Link
    My first house is currently being built and I'm planning to buy an EV shortly before we move in. Could a video like this fall in my lap at a more perfect time?

    My first house is currently being built and I'm planning to buy an EV shortly before we move in. Could a video like this fall in my lap at a more perfect time?

    6 votes
    1. [9]
      Macha
      Link Parent
      I think the main argument against the standard car charger is the increased electrical standards for the higher voltage results in a more difficult/expensive renovation and you can get by with...

      I think the main argument against the standard car charger is the increased electrical standards for the higher voltage results in a more difficult/expensive renovation and you can get by with less.

      If you're doing a new build, maybe it just makes sense to have the larger charger anyway since the wiring is being put in anyway.

      23 votes
      1. [8]
        OBLIVIATER
        Link Parent
        It's still a pretty big expense even at a new build stage, especially if it's with a commodity builder. There would be a pretty significantly charge for any large changes like that to the plans....

        It's still a pretty big expense even at a new build stage, especially if it's with a commodity builder. There would be a pretty significantly charge for any large changes like that to the plans. And then you have the actual price of these higher voltage chargers and their required materials, that's not cheap either.

        I really don't see any major disadvantages for this solution if you aren't like an Uber driver or delivery driver. Almost no one drives 120+ miles a day on average

        2 votes
        1. [5]
          st3ph3n
          Link Parent
          At the construction phase you don't need to go to the expense of buying an actual EVSE/charger. Just get the higher capacity circuit installed in the garage at that time. It's way cheaper to do...

          At the construction phase you don't need to go to the expense of buying an actual EVSE/charger. Just get the higher capacity circuit installed in the garage at that time. It's way cheaper to do when the walls and stuff aren't already up than coming back later and tearing them up.

          18 votes
          1. [3]
            okiyama
            Link Parent
            Right? I'm not electrician but isn't it literally just thicker wire and a bigger fuse on the fuse box? Can't be much of a difference.

            Right? I'm not electrician but isn't it literally just thicker wire and a bigger fuse on the fuse box? Can't be much of a difference.

            7 votes
            1. ackables
              Link Parent
              Yes it’s just adding in an extra high capacity breaker in your electric panel and running the correctly sized wire to one of those beefier outlets. It’s honestly a DIYable afternoon project if you...

              Yes it’s just adding in an extra high capacity breaker in your electric panel and running the correctly sized wire to one of those beefier outlets.

              It’s honestly a DIYable afternoon project if you know how to make your electric panel safe to work in and how to terminate a wire in an outlet. Many electrical panels are located in or near the garage anyways, so you usually just have to run a foot or two of wiring.

              5 votes
            2. vord
              Link Parent
              More or less, but being up to code requires a good bit more than that. I'm comfortable re-runing existing wires from the 60s with a thicker gauge as needed for repairs, as it's no worse than what...

              More or less, but being up to code requires a good bit more than that.

              I'm comfortable re-runing existing wires from the 60s with a thicker gauge as needed for repairs, as it's no worse than what was there before. But for a new 40A+ 240 I get an electrician.

              2 votes
          2. vord
            Link Parent
            This. You don't even really need a charger, just a solid 240V outlet so you can sub it out as needed.

            This. You don't even really need a charger, just a solid 240V outlet so you can sub it out as needed.

            3 votes
        2. [2]
          KakariBlue
          Link Parent
          Also need to know your pricing schedule if it's variable. Having only 6 or 9 hours to charge versus 12 or anytime means even a modest (20A Level 2) can be important if your trips are regularly...

          Also need to know your pricing schedule if it's variable. Having only 6 or 9 hours to charge versus 12 or anytime means even a modest (20A Level 2) can be important if your trips are regularly more than 100km / 60 mi in a day (3.6kW is about 10 miles added per hour).

          Two 20A outlets during build out so you have plenty of options should be quite reasonable to do during build out.

          3 votes
          1. mat
            Link Parent
            Just as an aside, I find it very pleasing that EV charging can be meaningfully measured in miles per hour

            Just as an aside, I find it very pleasing that EV charging can be meaningfully measured in miles per hour

            1 vote
    2. Autoxidation
      Link Parent
      If you're doing a new build, definitely just get it done. It's way cheaper when the walls are open. If your electrical box is in your garage it's super cheap and easy to do.

      If you're doing a new build, definitely just get it done. It's way cheaper when the walls are open. If your electrical box is in your garage it's super cheap and easy to do.

      10 votes