So Uber is yet again exploiting their "contractors". I'm conflicted, because I am weighting between (1) the extremely high probability of regular taxis' direct exploitation of me and (2) the ease,...
The new system has resulted in Uber taking a variable cut, or “take rate”, of 29% of a fare on average, rising to more than 50% in some cases, the University of Oxford researchers found. The study also found that Uber’s take rate increased on higher value rides – something the company has denied.
So Uber is yet again exploiting their "contractors".
I'm conflicted, because I am weighting between (1) the extremely high probability of regular taxis' direct exploitation of me and (2) the ease, confidence and control I am given as a passenger on rideshares.
I can, and have, stopped using Uber. But I am kidding myself if Uride and Lyft are much different. Maybe the most ethical thing to do is to estimate taxi cost, use rideshare, then tip the difference directly to the driver.
recent bad experience with taxi:
Last month, I missed my once a day long distance bus, and wanted a taxi ride to get to the next stop at the next town 175km (1:52) away . The bus company asked, and taxi company says absolutely no problem we'll make it for sure, it'll cost $375 but we can discount to $350. I don't totally balk at the price because it'll be a four hour round trip for my driver. What I did, though, was pause to look at the drive time on Google maps. There's was simply no way they could make it there. Their company must have known too, and was planning to leave me there stranded, bus missed, and $350 poorer.
Earlier this year the taxi driver misreported a flat rate increase from $20 to $22. Okay buddy that was your trip, my bad for choosing a taxi.
Innumerable bad experiences over the years excluded.
I've also had bad experiences with taxi's. Whenever I see a post or comment complaining about how ride shares have increased in cost, defeating the point of being cheaper than taxi's I tend to...
I've also had bad experiences with taxi's. Whenever I see a post or comment complaining about how ride shares have increased in cost, defeating the point of being cheaper than taxi's I tend to assume the person didn't use taxi's very much. Calling their dispatch, getting vague guarantees, missed appointments, constantly having to watch out for shenanigans with the route and meter... Basically anything other than hailing a cab for a short ride was a gamble.
Even if they cost the same or more, ride shares are a better service. I'm fortunate in that I don't use them often, so can afford to tip well. I try to make the tip worth the driver's trip, assuming that the fare could be gobbled up by the company. I've got 5 stars on my Lyft passenger profile, so it seems to be keeping the driver's happy.
The taxis in my city are generally pretty reasonable, and are only marginally more expensive than something like uber. But I've never tried to call dispatch or make appointments like that -- I...
The taxis in my city are generally pretty reasonable, and are only marginally more expensive than something like uber. But I've never tried to call dispatch or make appointments like that -- I usually pick them up outside the airport or use the FreeNow app to book them (which is now owned by Lyft but does interface with actual licensed taxi drivers). In this respect it's always been equivalent to or better than when I've used rideshare services in US cities. They have the option to pay a flat rate decided in advance (presumably based on averages and dynamic pricing like rideshare rates are) rather than going by the meter, for instance, which discourages messing with the route or meter. I've honestly never had a bad experience with a Berlin taxi (and not from lack of taking them -- I take one to and from my doctor's office pretty regularly, since the circumstances of a doctor's visit usually coincide with me not having the energy to walk to and from public transport on the way).
In my experience taxis in most places are fine now because they’ve got no choice but to at least equal Uber’s service, so they’re functionally the same thing - and that means taxis are arguably...
In my experience taxis in most places are fine now because they’ve got no choice but to at least equal Uber’s service, so they’re functionally the same thing - and that means taxis are arguably better because they tend to be a bit less exploitative too - but in the pre-Uber days they were pretty reliably terrible in the majority of places I used them worldwide.
I’ve said before that the frustrating thing is Uber legitimately “disrupted” the taxi industry in a good way with live tracking, up front pricing, reasonably realistic time estimates, etc. - all things the taxi industry was ignoring because they were complacent at best, and actively using that information asymmetry to scam customers at worst. But being a better taxi company wasn’t enough for their investors so they decided to disrupt the concept of employment rights as well.
I don't really have taxi experience that predates uber to compare it to myself, but I think everything you say in this comment sounds more than plausible.
I don't really have taxi experience that predates uber to compare it to myself, but I think everything you say in this comment sounds more than plausible.
I suspect a reason for Uber starting in the US cities it started in is because taxis in those cities were horrible: you could expect extremely limited availability, ridiculous pricing, and...
I suspect a reason for Uber starting in the US cities it started in is because taxis in those cities were horrible: you could expect extremely limited availability, ridiculous pricing, and sketchiness at best, and often just complete unusability as a reliable transportation method. In the worst cities, I would not be surprised if Uber wasn't really competing with taxis as much as they were competing against other forms of transportation, because hardly anyone actually used taxis. Before Uber, for example, I can't really remember ever taking a taxi in much of Los Angeles; assuming you could even find or call one, and convince them to take you where you wanted to go, the price would be exorbitant (eg, if I recall, a taxi from the airport could well cost much more than a full, meet-in-the-terminal limo service). Part of this was a complacent industry, and part of it came from a history of American cities historically wanting to discourage taxis for various problematic reasons, but the effect was that Uber was a viable service and taxis weren't.
In cities elsewhere, where taxis were actually usable and used, I expect it was not just regulation that made it more difficult for companies like Uber to succeed. The difference was substantial; in many cases flying across the Atlantic, I'd be going between one airport where taking a taxi seemed like a reasonable option, and another where the very idea of even considering a taxi seemed absurd.
I do also think the fact that taxis are competing with good public transportation probably adds some pressure here in Berlin that they didn't have in most US cities.It's probably not a coincidence...
I do also think the fact that taxis are competing with good public transportation probably adds some pressure here in Berlin that they didn't have in most US cities.It's probably not a coincidence that taxis are an iconic feature of NYC, which has much better public transit and a much lower rate of car ownership than most US cities. But I'm also young enough that Uber was founded when I was in middle school, and I didn't move to Europe until after I graduated college, so I don't have a clear picture of the pre-uber world in either country as a result.
They can certainly be more expensive in Hong Kong for example, especially if the driver decides to use "alternative routing". At their worst, they wouldn't open the door until you told them where...
if I recall, a taxi from the airport could well cost much more than a full, meet-in-the-terminal limo service
They can certainly be more expensive in Hong Kong for example, especially if the driver decides to use "alternative routing". At their worst, they wouldn't open the door until you told them where you were going and if they were interested in your business. And the attitude can be extremely appalling as well. The drivers are also heavily incentivised to overcharge and pull shannanigans because the heavily speculated licenses cost them a few cool millions they are making payments on.
The value of Hong Kong taxi licences has plummeted to a record low in recent weeks, now costing less than HK$2 million – less than a quarter of their peak value.
$2m HKD is $255,000 USD and €222,000. Now imagine them at their peak of $6.7m HKD.
After I commented I thought to myself that I should have added a disclaimer that I was only speaking about domestic US experiences, so I can't really speak to Berlin taxi's. In my experience,...
After I commented I thought to myself that I should have added a disclaimer that I was only speaking about domestic US experiences, so I can't really speak to Berlin taxi's.
In my experience, getting a taxi to come pick you up away from a major hub like an airport or downtown is difficult, and can leave you waiting with no clear status. But I can certainly believe the taxi experience is better elsewhere.
Ah yeah, Berlin is a pretty sprawling city so it doesn't have a super concentrated downtown, at least not to the degree that American cities I've lived in do. Generally I've had good luck with the...
Ah yeah, Berlin is a pretty sprawling city so it doesn't have a super concentrated downtown, at least not to the degree that American cities I've lived in do. Generally I've had good luck with the app finding me taxis that can reach me reasonably quickly, but I haven't exactly been testing it in super remote areas. The communication at the very least is super clear, so if it has trouble finding someone nearby you can see it searching and realize that's what's going on. But that's only happened to me once, and I had time to wait in that circumstance.
I've been using Lyft lately and just last week a driver was telling me that they lose money on every Uber ride they give, so switching to Lyft was their only option for turning a profit on driving...
I've been using Lyft lately and just last week a driver was telling me that they lose money on every Uber ride they give, so switching to Lyft was their only option for turning a profit on driving at all.
I wonder which of two ways it will go : (1) Uber loses enough money and drivers they pay better for the time being to restore balance, or (2) Lyft also raise their grab, forcing drivers to move...
I wonder which of two ways it will go : (1) Uber loses enough money and drivers they pay better for the time being to restore balance, or (2) Lyft also raise their grab, forcing drivers to move onto a third platform and so on forever.
It's difficult to dispute Uber payments with your bank, because you only see them take one payment, but the bank sees multiple entries for different amounts that don't necessarily match what is on...
It's difficult to dispute Uber payments with your bank, because you only see them take one payment, but the bank sees multiple entries for different amounts that don't necessarily match what is on your statement, or in the app. Ebay often puts payments through VISA as weird amounts, but Uber are worse, and I assume it's malicious rather than incompetent.
So Uber is yet again exploiting their "contractors".
I'm conflicted, because I am weighting between (1) the extremely high probability of regular taxis' direct exploitation of me and (2) the ease, confidence and control I am given as a passenger on rideshares.
I can, and have, stopped using Uber. But I am kidding myself if Uride and Lyft are much different. Maybe the most ethical thing to do is to estimate taxi cost, use rideshare, then tip the difference directly to the driver.
recent bad experience with taxi:
Last month, I missed my once a day long distance bus, and wanted a taxi ride to get to the next stop at the next town 175km (1:52) away . The bus company asked, and taxi company says absolutely no problem we'll make it for sure, it'll cost $375 but we can discount to $350. I don't totally balk at the price because it'll be a four hour round trip for my driver. What I did, though, was pause to look at the drive time on Google maps. There's was simply no way they could make it there. Their company must have known too, and was planning to leave me there stranded, bus missed, and $350 poorer.Earlier this year the taxi driver misreported a flat rate increase from $20 to $22. Okay buddy that was your trip, my bad for choosing a taxi.
Innumerable bad experiences over the years excluded.
I've also had bad experiences with taxi's. Whenever I see a post or comment complaining about how ride shares have increased in cost, defeating the point of being cheaper than taxi's I tend to assume the person didn't use taxi's very much. Calling their dispatch, getting vague guarantees, missed appointments, constantly having to watch out for shenanigans with the route and meter... Basically anything other than hailing a cab for a short ride was a gamble.
Even if they cost the same or more, ride shares are a better service. I'm fortunate in that I don't use them often, so can afford to tip well. I try to make the tip worth the driver's trip, assuming that the fare could be gobbled up by the company. I've got 5 stars on my Lyft passenger profile, so it seems to be keeping the driver's happy.
The taxis in my city are generally pretty reasonable, and are only marginally more expensive than something like uber. But I've never tried to call dispatch or make appointments like that -- I usually pick them up outside the airport or use the FreeNow app to book them (which is now owned by Lyft but does interface with actual licensed taxi drivers). In this respect it's always been equivalent to or better than when I've used rideshare services in US cities. They have the option to pay a flat rate decided in advance (presumably based on averages and dynamic pricing like rideshare rates are) rather than going by the meter, for instance, which discourages messing with the route or meter. I've honestly never had a bad experience with a Berlin taxi (and not from lack of taking them -- I take one to and from my doctor's office pretty regularly, since the circumstances of a doctor's visit usually coincide with me not having the energy to walk to and from public transport on the way).
In my experience taxis in most places are fine now because they’ve got no choice but to at least equal Uber’s service, so they’re functionally the same thing - and that means taxis are arguably better because they tend to be a bit less exploitative too - but in the pre-Uber days they were pretty reliably terrible in the majority of places I used them worldwide.
I’ve said before that the frustrating thing is Uber legitimately “disrupted” the taxi industry in a good way with live tracking, up front pricing, reasonably realistic time estimates, etc. - all things the taxi industry was ignoring because they were complacent at best, and actively using that information asymmetry to scam customers at worst. But being a better taxi company wasn’t enough for their investors so they decided to disrupt the concept of employment rights as well.
I don't really have taxi experience that predates uber to compare it to myself, but I think everything you say in this comment sounds more than plausible.
I suspect a reason for Uber starting in the US cities it started in is because taxis in those cities were horrible: you could expect extremely limited availability, ridiculous pricing, and sketchiness at best, and often just complete unusability as a reliable transportation method. In the worst cities, I would not be surprised if Uber wasn't really competing with taxis as much as they were competing against other forms of transportation, because hardly anyone actually used taxis. Before Uber, for example, I can't really remember ever taking a taxi in much of Los Angeles; assuming you could even find or call one, and convince them to take you where you wanted to go, the price would be exorbitant (eg, if I recall, a taxi from the airport could well cost much more than a full, meet-in-the-terminal limo service). Part of this was a complacent industry, and part of it came from a history of American cities historically wanting to discourage taxis for various problematic reasons, but the effect was that Uber was a viable service and taxis weren't.
In cities elsewhere, where taxis were actually usable and used, I expect it was not just regulation that made it more difficult for companies like Uber to succeed. The difference was substantial; in many cases flying across the Atlantic, I'd be going between one airport where taking a taxi seemed like a reasonable option, and another where the very idea of even considering a taxi seemed absurd.
I do also think the fact that taxis are competing with good public transportation probably adds some pressure here in Berlin that they didn't have in most US cities.It's probably not a coincidence that taxis are an iconic feature of NYC, which has much better public transit and a much lower rate of car ownership than most US cities. But I'm also young enough that Uber was founded when I was in middle school, and I didn't move to Europe until after I graduated college, so I don't have a clear picture of the pre-uber world in either country as a result.
They can certainly be more expensive in Hong Kong for example, especially if the driver decides to use "alternative routing". At their worst, they wouldn't open the door until you told them where you were going and if they were interested in your business. And the attitude can be extremely appalling as well. The drivers are also heavily incentivised to overcharge and pull shannanigans because the heavily speculated licenses cost them a few cool millions they are making payments on.
From Hong Kong Free Press:
$2m HKD is $255,000 USD and €222,000. Now imagine them at their peak of $6.7m HKD.
After I commented I thought to myself that I should have added a disclaimer that I was only speaking about domestic US experiences, so I can't really speak to Berlin taxi's.
In my experience, getting a taxi to come pick you up away from a major hub like an airport or downtown is difficult, and can leave you waiting with no clear status. But I can certainly believe the taxi experience is better elsewhere.
Ah yeah, Berlin is a pretty sprawling city so it doesn't have a super concentrated downtown, at least not to the degree that American cities I've lived in do. Generally I've had good luck with the app finding me taxis that can reach me reasonably quickly, but I haven't exactly been testing it in super remote areas. The communication at the very least is super clear, so if it has trouble finding someone nearby you can see it searching and realize that's what's going on. But that's only happened to me once, and I had time to wait in that circumstance.
Pretty sure they rate you before they can see the tip.
It must be my sparkling charm then!
I've been using Lyft lately and just last week a driver was telling me that they lose money on every Uber ride they give, so switching to Lyft was their only option for turning a profit on driving at all.
I wonder which of two ways it will go : (1) Uber loses enough money and drivers they pay better for the time being to restore balance, or (2) Lyft also raise their grab, forcing drivers to move onto a third platform and so on forever.
It's difficult to dispute Uber payments with your bank, because you only see them take one payment, but the bank sees multiple entries for different amounts that don't necessarily match what is on your statement, or in the app. Ebay often puts payments through VISA as weird amounts, but Uber are worse, and I assume it's malicious rather than incompetent.