I'm one of these young people, and I certainly think there's some point to this article. Ultimately though, I'm watching The Sopranos because it actually feels like a TV show. For a show that...
I'm one of these young people, and I certainly think there's some point to this article. Ultimately though, I'm watching The Sopranos because it actually feels like a TV show.
For a show that kicked off the current ""prestige"" TV boom, The Sopranos is a lot more episodic than most people I know expect, including myself. I'm constantly in awe of how it tells an overarching story of the whole series, tells an overarching story of the seasonal arcs, and also tells a complete story within each episode, especially in early seasons, every episode complete with its own unique motifs and symbols. Half the episodes in the show could be feature length films and be great ones.
It feels like too many shows now feel like 10 hour movies, and even brag about it. It's all about the overarching plots, to the point of individual episodes being basically meaningless beyond a vehicle for delivering the season's story. It's not universal by any means, I think it's a bigger problem with Netflix shows, likely due to their season drops. But with The Sopranos, even if I only have time for one episode, I'm getting a complete package.
Edit: also it's one of the funniest shows I've ever seen. That helps a lot.
This is my biggest gripe about "TV" these days. Season 1 of Lupin did a good job being episodic with an arc that covered the entire season, but then they blew it in Season 2, which basically...
It feels like too many shows now feel like 10 hour movies, and even brag about it. It's all about the overarching plots, to the point of individual episodes being basically meaningless beyond a vehicle for delivering the season's story.
This is my biggest gripe about "TV" these days. Season 1 of Lupin did a good job being episodic with an arc that covered the entire season, but then they blew it in Season 2, which basically killed it for me. Season 1 of Lucifer also did a great job of being episodic, but then it kind of falls apart in the subsequent seasons, and I still haven't finished it. I love both shorter and longer arcs, but I prefer episodes. To me though, good "TV" has the arcs and the episodes - a good place to stop where I feel satisfied, but wanting to come back because I'm invested in the outcome.
I agree so much with your general thought that serial drama, as opposed to episodic content, has been vastly overrated in TV shows for at least a couple of decades. I point to Star Trek (what...
I agree so much with your general thought that serial drama, as opposed to episodic content, has been vastly overrated in TV shows for at least a couple of decades.
I point to Star Trek (what else) as a good example. Initially a highly episodic show by design, each week exploring a new thing that the crew of the Enterprise finds in the weird depths of space, its premise was built for episodic content. And when later additions to the franchise, like Deep Space 9, or (dare I mention them) Discovery or Picard, make the ever-popular move to a serialized storyline, they suffer for it (in my opinion.) The essence of the show is lost, and they become a fairly run-of-the-mill sci-fi drama.
But even the idea of episodic content these days in a TV show makes people instantly say "ew, no." It's a sentiment that grew out of the end of the 20th century, when serial dramas felt so fresh and exciting compared to episodic "moster of the week" content.
Well it's not fresh anymore, and I love it when shows attempt a return to form, daring to once again give us a single, contained story, nicely wrapped up, every single week.
Of course The Sopranos is hardly new, but I mean this in a more general sense. I wish more shows were brave enough to try it.
I've seen Breaking Bad and Twilight Zone, big fan of both. Sopranos has been on my list forever, I just never got around to getting HBO for the longest time because they cropped movies for 16:9...
I've seen Breaking Bad and Twilight Zone, big fan of both. Sopranos has been on my list forever, I just never got around to getting HBO for the longest time because they cropped movies for 16:9 until HBO Max launched, which meant I'd never watch any of their movie selection so the cost didn't seem worthwhile.
Then when the lockdowns started (in the US) last year, HBO put some stuff out for free including Sopranos. That's when I got hooked and bit the bullet on the subscription.
Lots of very smart/creative/overly-complex assumptions on this article. I'd rather look for the usual suspects: people are indoors HBO Max is widely available the show is actually very good it's...
Lots of very smart/creative/overly-complex assumptions on this article. I'd rather look for the usual suspects:
people are indoors
HBO Max is widely available
the show is actually very good
it's the kind of show everyone thinks they should see at some point (many awards).
This article is way too long and complex when the actual answer is much simpler. It's not like there's a sudden trend of young people watching The Dick Van Dyke Show, or some other show from the...
This article is way too long and complex when the actual answer is much simpler. It's not like there's a sudden trend of young people watching The Dick Van Dyke Show, or some other show from the 60s. Sopranos isn't THAT old, it's a younger show than Friends. There are shows that are classics and will always have an audience. Especially shows from the turn of the century since that was only about twenty years ago.
Do they think young people won't check out award winning, universally beloved, movies/tv shows from the past twenty years or something?
This headline really doesn't fit the article, blame the editor for that one. It's not trying to answer a simple question given the scope and many observations it holds. If anything, this article...
This headline really doesn't fit the article, blame the editor for that one. It's not trying to answer a simple question given the scope and many observations it holds. If anything, this article is more of a review of the show through a more modern societal lens and trying to dive into how the show ended up being more prescient than was realized contemporaneously.
This and Curb Your Enthusiasm was when TV suddenly got good. Twin Peaks was even before that but nobody dared to follow it. The Sopranos actually started a trend.
This and Curb Your Enthusiasm was when TV suddenly got good. Twin Peaks was even before that but nobody dared to follow it. The Sopranos actually started a trend.
You must be very young! I make no claims regarding when TV comedies "got good", but I know for a fact that Curb came extremely late to that game... Larry David himself created a little show called...
Curb Your Enthusiasm
You must be very young! I make no claims regarding when TV comedies "got good", but I know for a fact that Curb came extremely late to that game...
Larry David himself created a little show called Seinfeld a decade before that!
The Larry Sanders Show came in 1992. A great hit, often mentioned when it comes to "when TV comedies got good".
The Simpsons premiered in 1989, I think that's relevant too!
The Twilight Zone (a drama) premiered in 1959, I'm pretty sure that counts as good TV as well...
I'm not that young, actually, lol. What I do know is: I can watch movies from the 80s, 70s, 60s, etc. and truly enjoy them, probably prefer them over what we have today. And not just one or two,...
I'm not that young, actually, lol.
What I do know is: I can watch movies from the 80s, 70s, 60s, etc. and truly enjoy them, probably prefer them over what we have today. And not just one or two, dozens of them! I can't say the same about TV. Maybe with some ironic/nostalgia glasses on, but it's hard to actually go and sit down to bing a season of The Six Million Dollar Man or something.
There was like this unwritten rule that pre-2000s TV had to have a "cheese factor" (ffs, even Twin Peaks season 2 follows that rule). There simply wasn't anything like The Sopranoes before. After it, we got The Wire, True Detective, Mad Men, Breaking Bad, The Office, House of Cards, The Americans,... even the "post-2000s cheesy" is better, like Battlestar Galactica, The Walking Dead or Game of Thrones. Weird comedies like Arrested Development, Girls or 30 Rock.
Like, I know there's some Monthy Python shows and such that are an exception to this. But overall, something good happened to TV around 2000, I stand by that.
No problem. I was just a bit surprised to see Curb mentioned as the start of anything, when it's basically Seinfeld with a single camera setup (a bit of exageration here, hope you get my gist) and...
No problem. I was just a bit surprised to see Curb mentioned as the start of anything, when it's basically Seinfeld with a single camera setup (a bit of exageration here, hope you get my gist) and heavily influenced by The Larry Sanders Show...
Hey now, I'm so happy to see someone bring up The Larry Sanders Show. I've been trying to get people my age to watch that show for year's after I was able to catch it back in 2010 when it had a...
Hey now, I'm so happy to see someone bring up The Larry Sanders Show. I've been trying to get people my age to watch that show for year's after I was able to catch it back in 2010 when it had a brief run on Netflix. It was so ahead of its time and I feel like it gets lost in the conversation about prestige TV.
Lets be less US centric and mention UK TV... Dr Who. Sopranos introduced serialized cinematic tv to the bourgeoisie, but long-form tv shows were a thing even with Dr Who in the 60's albeit...
Not to mention British TV...
Lets be less US centric and mention UK TV...
Dr Who. Sopranos introduced serialized cinematic tv to the bourgeoisie, but long-form tv shows were a thing even with Dr Who in the 60's albeit decidedly uncinematic.
Black Adder. Sopranos popularized funny yet nihilistic anti-heroes but Black Adder had a uniquely british spin on this theme in the 80's.
Yes, you are. Although Sopranos is a bit overestimated IMHO. Godfather is sublime in itself, and by watching it you will unlock a sea of references as well. It's central in western culture.
Yes, you are. Although Sopranos is a bit overestimated IMHO.
Godfather is sublime in itself, and by watching it you will unlock a sea of references as well. It's central in western culture.
Sopranos is one giant reference to previous mafia films. It makes sense to see the source before seeing the reaction to them, I think. I'd say watch all Godfather and at least all Scorsese's...
Sopranos is one giant reference to previous mafia films. It makes sense to see the source before seeing the reaction to them, I think.
I'd say watch all Godfather and at least all Scorsese's gangster films first, with the exception of The Irishman, both because it's newer and the CGI is pathetic.
I really enjoyed the Sopranos when I was younger. I'm going to have to rewatch it to see if it holds up, but I liked it a lot. You're missing out not watching the Godfather. I found the first one...
I really enjoyed the Sopranos when I was younger. I'm going to have to rewatch it to see if it holds up, but I liked it a lot.
You're missing out not watching the Godfather. I found the first one about average when I first watched it (about half a year ago), but it slowly grew on me. You can easily see why it was so huge, and the fact that it holds up despite being almost 50 years old is pretty great. The second one is excellent. The third one is okay by normal movie standards, but definitely lacks compared to the first two.
if you go through the Godfather trilogy, watch Godfather, Coda: The Death of Michael Corleone instead of the normal third part. It’s pretty much the same, but the pace and tone is better / more...
if you go through the Godfather trilogy, watch Godfather, Coda: The Death of Michael Corleone instead of the normal third part. It’s pretty much the same, but the pace and tone is better / more consistent with the series.
Sopranos is good — but it would be worth watching The Godfather, Goodfellas, Casino, etc. first.
Godfather quite literally consolidates the contemporary mafia genre, it doesn't get more accessible than that. It presents the world of Italian immigrants in a comprehensive and digestible manner....
Godfather quite literally consolidates the contemporary mafia genre, it doesn't get more accessible than that. It presents the world of Italian immigrants in a comprehensive and digestible manner. As any older film, it is a bit slower to get going, I assume that's what you're getting at here... but all the background is there for you to see and understand. It doesn't require any previous knowledge.
Both Casino and Goodfellas rely on conventions previously established by Coppola. They're variations on a theme. You can, no doubt, watch them in any order whatsoever, this is not a saga or anything. They might be considered more approachable in regards to length, or because they employ a more current cinematic style, but, as long as you're prepared to accept something slightly antiquated (but not as much as it initially seems, and significantly more beautiful), Godfather will do just fine...
I really hope The Many Saints of Newark is good. Its nice that Michael Gandolfini can play a young Tony, but he didn't have a good presence on The Deuce.
I really hope The Many Saints of Newark is good. Its nice that Michael Gandolfini can play a young Tony, but he didn't have a good presence on The Deuce.
I'm one of these young people, and I certainly think there's some point to this article. Ultimately though, I'm watching The Sopranos because it actually feels like a TV show.
For a show that kicked off the current ""prestige"" TV boom, The Sopranos is a lot more episodic than most people I know expect, including myself. I'm constantly in awe of how it tells an overarching story of the whole series, tells an overarching story of the seasonal arcs, and also tells a complete story within each episode, especially in early seasons, every episode complete with its own unique motifs and symbols. Half the episodes in the show could be feature length films and be great ones.
It feels like too many shows now feel like 10 hour movies, and even brag about it. It's all about the overarching plots, to the point of individual episodes being basically meaningless beyond a vehicle for delivering the season's story. It's not universal by any means, I think it's a bigger problem with Netflix shows, likely due to their season drops. But with The Sopranos, even if I only have time for one episode, I'm getting a complete package.
Edit: also it's one of the funniest shows I've ever seen. That helps a lot.
This is my biggest gripe about "TV" these days. Season 1 of Lupin did a good job being episodic with an arc that covered the entire season, but then they blew it in Season 2, which basically killed it for me. Season 1 of Lucifer also did a great job of being episodic, but then it kind of falls apart in the subsequent seasons, and I still haven't finished it. I love both shorter and longer arcs, but I prefer episodes. To me though, good "TV" has the arcs and the episodes - a good place to stop where I feel satisfied, but wanting to come back because I'm invested in the outcome.
I agree so much with your general thought that serial drama, as opposed to episodic content, has been vastly overrated in TV shows for at least a couple of decades.
I point to Star Trek (what else) as a good example. Initially a highly episodic show by design, each week exploring a new thing that the crew of the Enterprise finds in the weird depths of space, its premise was built for episodic content. And when later additions to the franchise, like Deep Space 9, or (dare I mention them) Discovery or Picard, make the ever-popular move to a serialized storyline, they suffer for it (in my opinion.) The essence of the show is lost, and they become a fairly run-of-the-mill sci-fi drama.
But even the idea of episodic content these days in a TV show makes people instantly say "ew, no." It's a sentiment that grew out of the end of the 20th century, when serial dramas felt so fresh and exciting compared to episodic "moster of the week" content.
Well it's not fresh anymore, and I love it when shows attempt a return to form, daring to once again give us a single, contained story, nicely wrapped up, every single week.
Of course The Sopranos is hardly new, but I mean this in a more general sense. I wish more shows were brave enough to try it.
What started you watching it?
Have you been motivated to see other great shows like Breaking Bad? Twilight Zone? Alfred Hitchcock Presents?
I've seen Breaking Bad and Twilight Zone, big fan of both. Sopranos has been on my list forever, I just never got around to getting HBO for the longest time because they cropped movies for 16:9 until HBO Max launched, which meant I'd never watch any of their movie selection so the cost didn't seem worthwhile.
Then when the lockdowns started (in the US) last year, HBO put some stuff out for free including Sopranos. That's when I got hooked and bit the bullet on the subscription.
Ahhhhhhh!
But just the first season.
Sneaky.
Lots of very smart/creative/overly-complex assumptions on this article. I'd rather look for the usual suspects:
That's why I'm watching at least.
I haven't seen it yet, but I see it recommended so often online I'm bound to eventually cave and get to it at some point.
There is also a prequel movie coming out in a month
This article is way too long and complex when the actual answer is much simpler. It's not like there's a sudden trend of young people watching The Dick Van Dyke Show, or some other show from the 60s. Sopranos isn't THAT old, it's a younger show than Friends. There are shows that are classics and will always have an audience. Especially shows from the turn of the century since that was only about twenty years ago.
Do they think young people won't check out award winning, universally beloved, movies/tv shows from the past twenty years or something?
This headline really doesn't fit the article, blame the editor for that one. It's not trying to answer a simple question given the scope and many observations it holds. If anything, this article is more of a review of the show through a more modern societal lens and trying to dive into how the show ended up being more prescient than was realized contemporaneously.
This and Curb Your Enthusiasm was when TV suddenly got good. Twin Peaks was even before that but nobody dared to follow it. The Sopranos actually started a trend.
You must be very young! I make no claims regarding when TV comedies "got good", but I know for a fact that Curb came extremely late to that game...
Larry David himself created a little show called Seinfeld a decade before that!
The Larry Sanders Show came in 1992. A great hit, often mentioned when it comes to "when TV comedies got good".
The Simpsons premiered in 1989, I think that's relevant too!
The Twilight Zone (a drama) premiered in 1959, I'm pretty sure that counts as good TV as well...
Not to mention British TV...
Was TV ever not good? 🤔
I'm not that young, actually, lol.
What I do know is: I can watch movies from the 80s, 70s, 60s, etc. and truly enjoy them, probably prefer them over what we have today. And not just one or two, dozens of them! I can't say the same about TV. Maybe with some ironic/nostalgia glasses on, but it's hard to actually go and sit down to bing a season of The Six Million Dollar Man or something.
There was like this unwritten rule that pre-2000s TV had to have a "cheese factor" (ffs, even Twin Peaks season 2 follows that rule). There simply wasn't anything like The Sopranoes before. After it, we got The Wire, True Detective, Mad Men, Breaking Bad, The Office, House of Cards, The Americans,... even the "post-2000s cheesy" is better, like Battlestar Galactica, The Walking Dead or Game of Thrones. Weird comedies like Arrested Development, Girls or 30 Rock.
Like, I know there's some Monthy Python shows and such that are an exception to this. But overall, something good happened to TV around 2000, I stand by that.
No problem. I was just a bit surprised to see Curb mentioned as the start of anything, when it's basically Seinfeld with a single camera setup (a bit of exageration here, hope you get my gist) and heavily influenced by The Larry Sanders Show...
Hey now, I'm so happy to see someone bring up The Larry Sanders Show. I've been trying to get people my age to watch that show for year's after I was able to catch it back in 2010 when it had a brief run on Netflix. It was so ahead of its time and I feel like it gets lost in the conversation about prestige TV.
Lets be less US centric and mention UK TV...
Dr Who. Sopranos introduced serialized cinematic tv to the bourgeoisie, but long-form tv shows were a thing even with Dr Who in the 60's albeit decidedly uncinematic.
Black Adder. Sopranos popularized funny yet nihilistic anti-heroes but Black Adder had a uniquely british spin on this theme in the 80's.
BBC's Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy is likely the best John Le Carre adaptation ever... in any media.
Except people did watch Twin Peaks the pilot was a huge hit and although it did peter out it still have a decently large viewership.
Yes Twin Peaks was not just a hit, but a global hit. It was very sought on video rental places.
I've never seen it. I've also never seen The Godfather movies. Am I missing out?
Yes, you are. Although Sopranos is a bit overestimated IMHO.
Godfather is sublime in itself, and by watching it you will unlock a sea of references as well. It's central in western culture.
But Sopranos is more accessible tbh so I would recommend starting there. As mentioned many episodes are like a small movie in itself.
Sopranos is one giant reference to previous mafia films. It makes sense to see the source before seeing the reaction to them, I think.
I'd say watch all Godfather and at least all Scorsese's gangster films first, with the exception of The Irishman, both because it's newer and the CGI is pathetic.
I really enjoyed the Sopranos when I was younger. I'm going to have to rewatch it to see if it holds up, but I liked it a lot.
You're missing out not watching the Godfather. I found the first one about average when I first watched it (about half a year ago), but it slowly grew on me. You can easily see why it was so huge, and the fact that it holds up despite being almost 50 years old is pretty great. The second one is excellent. The third one is okay by normal movie standards, but definitely lacks compared to the first two.
if you go through the Godfather trilogy, watch Godfather, Coda: The Death of Michael Corleone instead of the normal third part. It’s pretty much the same, but the pace and tone is better / more consistent with the series.
Sopranos is good — but it would be worth watching The Godfather, Goodfellas, Casino, etc. first.
...Casino and Goodfellas are way more accessible than Godfather so start there.
Godfather quite literally consolidates the contemporary mafia genre, it doesn't get more accessible than that. It presents the world of Italian immigrants in a comprehensive and digestible manner. As any older film, it is a bit slower to get going, I assume that's what you're getting at here... but all the background is there for you to see and understand. It doesn't require any previous knowledge.
Both Casino and Goodfellas rely on conventions previously established by Coppola. They're variations on a theme. You can, no doubt, watch them in any order whatsoever, this is not a saga or anything. They might be considered more approachable in regards to length, or because they employ a more current cinematic style, but, as long as you're prepared to accept something slightly antiquated (but not as much as it initially seems, and significantly more beautiful), Godfather will do just fine...
I really hope The Many Saints of Newark is good. Its nice that Michael Gandolfini can play a young Tony, but he didn't have a good presence on The Deuce.