I’ve never had anyone GNU-splain to me before in the real world. This always seemed like one of those things that only happens online (and even then only with a niche within a niche). Sort of like...
I’ve never had anyone GNU-splain to me before in the real world.
This always seemed like one of those things that only happens online (and even then only with a niche within a niche). Sort of like people complaining about “green bubble” Android users.
Every person I know in the real world who deals with tech stuff just calls it Linux. And no one pushes back against it.
I guess I just don’t hang out with enough pedants?
Truth. Despite even my other post, I consider it mostly just semantics and irony. The semantics don't matter outside of certain scenarios. The irony being how much of the Linux community despised...
Truth. Despite even my other post, I consider it mostly just semantics and irony. The semantics don't matter outside of certain scenarios.
The irony being how much of the Linux community despised systemd. Systemd is Linux more than most of the rest of the userspace.
The other is containers, specifically the Docker tooling. But that one is so beloved that Windows and Mac users are happy to run a hidden Linux VM to use them.
I'll bet you could drop a large amount of Linux users (especially ones that claim the community has moved on from GNU) on a BSD and they'd be a bit frustrated until they installed a GNU userspace.
For the average user, even a power user, I don't think you'd notice unless you personally do a lot of shell scripting that also happens to rely a lot of GNUisms that aren't reimplemented by other...
For the average user, even a power user, I don't think you'd notice unless you personally do a lot of shell scripting that also happens to rely a lot of GNUisms that aren't reimplemented by other projects. I've been dropped into BSDs before, I could use it just fine, just couldn't administrate it, and that's not something that's ever been within the GNUniverse anyway. Slap a standard GUI on top and that becomes the case even more.
I doubt it; it actually happens a lot. When macOS users SSH into a linux box (which practically every developer in the bay does), you go from a terminal with BSD userspace to a GNU one. You'd...
I'll bet you could drop a large amount of Linux users (especially ones that claim the community has moved on from GNU) on a BSD and they'd be a bit frustrated until they installed a GNU userspace.
I doubt it; it actually happens a lot. When macOS users SSH into a linux box (which practically every developer in the bay does), you go from a terminal with BSD userspace to a GNU one. You'd mostly notice in niche situations where some GNU tools have non-POSIX compliant features.
I think it's just a courtesy term to remind the world of Stallman's contribution in the Linux world and OS. For that reason alone, I don't mind it too much when someone speaks that term. The...
I think it's just a courtesy term to remind the world of Stallman's contribution in the Linux world and OS. For that reason alone, I don't mind it too much when someone speaks that term. The author probably wants to say that the "Interjector" here must bring some other technical conversation to the table and the discussion must not be solely about GNU part, otherwise it feels like a propaganda pill!
I've never seen so many words just to say "I didn't get that joke". When that copypasta gets spread around, nobody is saying it to clarify any specific meaning. It's a joke. Just like every other...
I've never seen so many words just to say "I didn't get that joke".
When that copypasta gets spread around, nobody is saying it to clarify any specific meaning. It's a joke. Just like every other copypasta.
Then again, I don't know this person; maybe they spend a lot of time with oldschool GNU-aligned folks?
I also find it strange that the author considers ChromeOS to be Linux but not Android. I'd get it if he were discussing desktop distros but he also includes Alpine which to my knowledge is mainly used on embedded systems (which is the major reason why they replace GNU utilities with Busybox).
Yea, it's mostly copypasta after a Stallman rant. There is a legit point in said OG rant. I think it was inspired by how GNU userspace (that was just lacking a GNU kernel (Hurd)), when it got...
Yea, it's mostly copypasta after a Stallman rant. There is a legit point in said OG rant. I think it was inspired by how GNU userspace (that was just lacking a GNU kernel (Hurd)), when it got paired with Linux, the fact it wasn't part of Linux was forgotton. Linux being good enough kinda resulted in more development hell for Hurd.
The GNU userspace can exist on many other OS kernels...including Windows (Cygwin), Mac OS, the BSD's, even some of the classic Unix systems.
Conversely, Android lacks the GNU userspace by default (I think), only the Linux kernel.
Now that Hurd finally hit the light of day, there is GNU/Hurd, which Debian has as a combo IIRC. Which is where it can get complicated...because Debian is known as a Linux distro, but GNU/Hurd Debian has no Linux.
The same will be true if/when any other kernels port the GNU userspace. Times are a changing.
Not to belittle GNU, but I don't think you'd find many to agree that it's ok to call a Linux OS running GNU userspace programs just "GNU", or anyone besides RMS who considers the breath spent on...
The main error is that Linux is not strictly speaking part of the GNU system—whose kernel is GNU Hurd. The version with Linux, we call “GNU/Linux.” It is OK to call it “GNU” when you want to be really short, but it is better to call it “GNU/Linux” so as to give Torvalds some credit.
Not to belittle GNU, but I don't think you'd find many to agree that it's ok to call a Linux OS running GNU userspace programs just "GNU", or anyone besides RMS who considers the breath spent on the word "Linux" to be an act of grace to give Linus credit for his small part.
My understanding is almost all of the GNU tools are optional or replaceable by a non-GNU equivalent. But you can't just swap out The Kernel.
Stallman's greatest strength and weakness is his penchant for semantic correctness. The GPL would not be as subversive as it is without it. But it does make him an abrasive personality.
Stallman's greatest strength and weakness is his penchant for semantic correctness.
The GPL would not be as subversive as it is without it. But it does make him an abrasive personality.
I've seen people unironically insist that it should be called "GNU/Linux" to distinguish it from the likes of Android multiple times in the past week. I was initially inspired to write this after...
I've seen people unironically insist that it should be called "GNU/Linux" to distinguish it from the likes of Android multiple times in the past week.
The main reason to call it GNU/Linux is simply to recognise and give fair credit to the considerable amount of work done by GNU devs in making the phenomenon of "Linux" happen at all. Neither of...
The main reason to call it GNU/Linux is simply to recognise and give fair credit to the considerable amount of work done by GNU devs in making the phenomenon of "Linux" happen at all. Neither of these projects could have succeeded without the other, and yet usually only one of them is acknowledged.
I won't split hairs over it - or correct people online(!) - but if I'm writing the word "Linux" for whatever reason I will usually try to add "GNU/" because it costs me absolutely nothing.
I think the problem many have with it is that it's being demanded. GNU and the FSF pull many stunts over it, for example they did an ethics report card for software repository hosts a while back,...
I think the problem many have with it is that it's being demanded. GNU and the FSF pull many stunts over it, for example they did an ethics report card for software repository hosts a while back, and using their preferred terminology (saying "free," not saying "open" at all, saying "GNU/Linux" whenever it isn't clear you're just talking about the kernel) was a requirement for the higher grades. And the same for their RYF "Respects Your Freedoms" hardware certification. In order for your hardware to be certified as freedom-respecting (regardless of any software running on it), you also have to use their preferred language and can't stray from it. Even if they deserve some measure of credit, insisting on it and tying entirely unrelated things to it does no favors to anyone.
I’ve never had anyone GNU-splain to me before in the real world.
This always seemed like one of those things that only happens online (and even then only with a niche within a niche). Sort of like people complaining about “green bubble” Android users.
Every person I know in the real world who deals with tech stuff just calls it Linux. And no one pushes back against it.
I guess I just don’t hang out with enough pedants?
I think unless you hang out with Richard Stallman it's hard to find people who will complain about the omission of "GNU".
Truth. Despite even my other post, I consider it mostly just semantics and irony. The semantics don't matter outside of certain scenarios.
The irony being how much of the Linux community despised systemd. Systemd is Linux more than most of the rest of the userspace.
The other is containers, specifically the Docker tooling. But that one is so beloved that Windows and Mac users are happy to run a hidden Linux VM to use them.
I'll bet you could drop a large amount of Linux users (especially ones that claim the community has moved on from GNU) on a BSD and they'd be a bit frustrated until they installed a GNU userspace.
For the average user, even a power user, I don't think you'd notice unless you personally do a lot of shell scripting that also happens to rely a lot of GNUisms that aren't reimplemented by other projects. I've been dropped into BSDs before, I could use it just fine, just couldn't administrate it, and that's not something that's ever been within the GNUniverse anyway. Slap a standard GUI on top and that becomes the case even more.
I doubt it; it actually happens a lot. When macOS users SSH into a linux box (which practically every developer in the bay does), you go from a terminal with BSD userspace to a GNU one. You'd mostly notice in niche situations where some GNU tools have non-POSIX compliant features.
I think it's just a courtesy term to remind the world of Stallman's contribution in the Linux world and OS. For that reason alone, I don't mind it too much when someone speaks that term. The author probably wants to say that the "Interjector" here must bring some other technical conversation to the table and the discussion must not be solely about GNU part, otherwise it feels like a propaganda pill!
I've never seen so many words just to say "I didn't get that joke".
When that copypasta gets spread around, nobody is saying it to clarify any specific meaning. It's a joke. Just like every other copypasta.
Then again, I don't know this person; maybe they spend a lot of time with oldschool GNU-aligned folks?
I also find it strange that the author considers ChromeOS to be Linux but not Android. I'd get it if he were discussing desktop distros but he also includes Alpine which to my knowledge is mainly used on embedded systems (which is the major reason why they replace GNU utilities with Busybox).
Yea, it's mostly copypasta after a Stallman rant. There is a legit point in said OG rant. I think it was inspired by how GNU userspace (that was just lacking a GNU kernel (Hurd)), when it got paired with Linux, the fact it wasn't part of Linux was forgotton. Linux being good enough kinda resulted in more development hell for Hurd.
The GNU userspace can exist on many other OS kernels...including Windows (Cygwin), Mac OS, the BSD's, even some of the classic Unix systems.
Conversely, Android lacks the GNU userspace by default (I think), only the Linux kernel.
Now that Hurd finally hit the light of day, there is GNU/Hurd, which Debian has as a combo IIRC. Which is where it can get complicated...because Debian is known as a Linux distro, but GNU/Hurd Debian has no Linux.
The same will be true if/when any other kernels port the GNU userspace. Times are a changing.
I think interesting context is "Incorrect Quotation" by RMS where he talks briefly about the copypasta.
Not to belittle GNU, but I don't think you'd find many to agree that it's ok to call a Linux OS running GNU userspace programs just "GNU", or anyone besides RMS who considers the breath spent on the word "Linux" to be an act of grace to give Linus credit for his small part.
My understanding is almost all of the GNU tools are optional or replaceable by a non-GNU equivalent. But you can't just swap out The Kernel.
Stallman's greatest strength and weakness is his penchant for semantic correctness.
The GPL would not be as subversive as it is without it. But it does make him an abrasive personality.
I've seen people unironically insist that it should be called "GNU/Linux" to distinguish it from the likes of Android multiple times in the past week.
I was initially inspired to write this after reading this post: https://social.linux.pizza/@redstarfish/109467634692979081
FYI, this article was written by OP.
The main reason to call it GNU/Linux is simply to recognise and give fair credit to the considerable amount of work done by GNU devs in making the phenomenon of "Linux" happen at all. Neither of these projects could have succeeded without the other, and yet usually only one of them is acknowledged.
I won't split hairs over it - or correct people online(!) - but if I'm writing the word "Linux" for whatever reason I will usually try to add "GNU/" because it costs me absolutely nothing.
I think the problem many have with it is that it's being demanded. GNU and the FSF pull many stunts over it, for example they did an ethics report card for software repository hosts a while back, and using their preferred terminology (saying "free," not saying "open" at all, saying "GNU/Linux" whenever it isn't clear you're just talking about the kernel) was a requirement for the higher grades. And the same for their RYF "Respects Your Freedoms" hardware certification. In order for your hardware to be certified as freedom-respecting (regardless of any software running on it), you also have to use their preferred language and can't stray from it. Even if they deserve some measure of credit, insisting on it and tying entirely unrelated things to it does no favors to anyone.