This entire shitshow really is one of the classic EU dilemmas. Brussels wants to unify packaging laws in the union, and the member states resist because it's giving away power to the EU. The end...
This entire shitshow really is one of the classic EU dilemmas. Brussels wants to unify packaging laws in the union, and the member states resist because it's giving away power to the EU.
The end result is the worst of both worlds. The states retain their various differing laws around sending packages and disposing of packaging waste and the EU adds a mandatory layer of beraucracy on top that's just gonna completely fuck over everyone.
I hate all of this, and the worst thing is that the original intent was even good. If there was a single EU instance to register with this would be way less trouble and likely was the original intent of the law before it got watered down into lava.
I really really really dislike the modern EU. Don't particularly feel like elaborating, but my main issues are: it's focusing on the wrong things, at the wrong time an alarming number of its...
I really really really dislike the modern EU.
Don't particularly feel like elaborating, but my main issues are:
it's focusing on the wrong things, at the wrong time
an alarming number of its recent (past decade-ish) proposals, laws and regulations either directly or indirectly harm or otherwise negatively impact the average person's life
it is hypocritical beyond belief, both in action and verbal / written statements and hides behind a mask of fake righteousness and solidarity
it massively overreaches its initial intended purpose
I genuinely believe the European Union is doomed to fail in the coming decades and it's going to take Europe many decades to recover from the damage it caused, if it can recover at all. At this point, the main thing holding the EU together is not its values or benefits, but the astronomical cost of its dissolution.
Don't get me wrong, I don't think it's all bad. It has done many good things and has overall been a net positive for Europe up until the early 2010s.
Around 2016 the EU made it mandatory to provide everyone with roaming data if you were travelling in the EU. The GDPR, although a beraucratic beast, is overall a positive because it's the first...
Around 2016 the EU made it mandatory to provide everyone with roaming data if you were travelling in the EU. The GDPR, although a beraucratic beast, is overall a positive because it's the first kind of law that even tries to put a value onto personal data.
It did also give us USB-C on everything fairly recently.
I don't get this doom and gloom, especially since you're being awfully vague? There's a shitton of massive improvements that have ongoing effects like obviously the single currency and the free movement of people and goods. Those are effects that are still here. If the EU went away in "the early 2010s", those effects would disappear and we'd all be a lot worse off.
Don't forget the Instant bank transfers! And what they are working on to make is easier to run a business in all countries. And who knows, maybe the digital euro will actually be what it could be.
Don't forget the Instant bank transfers! And what they are working on to make is easier to run a business in all countries. And who knows, maybe the digital euro will actually be what it could be.
I think the EU is a good thing in that it brings us together, and the overreach of its initial intended purpose doesn't have to be a bad thing either. I wish EU countries could be more integrated...
I think the EU is a good thing in that it brings us together, and the overreach of its initial intended purpose doesn't have to be a bad thing either. I wish EU countries could be more integrated with each other.
We do have to stop sending our stupidest politicians to retire in the European Parliament though. Truly the Peter Principle in action. And the system is also vulnerable to misguided bickering from the member states and to the corruption, obtuseness, ignorance or just plain maliciousness of the national politicians and delegates making up the EU's other entities. I wish we could overhaul and streamline the whole thing.
The law being debated in this thread is garbage and in my humble opinion needs to be completely scrapped. But for it to have been properly implemented, the EU would have had to be more capable of overriding the national sovereignty of individual member states.
Felt the same way about the implementation of customs tax on every import outside the EU a couple months back. Screw you if the item you want isn't available anywhere in the EU, everybody pays...
Felt the same way about the implementation of customs tax on every import outside the EU a couple months back. Screw you if the item you want isn't available anywhere in the EU, everybody pays because somebody's aunt wants to buy plastic trash from Temu. Just complete lack of vision, everybody gets the short end of the stick.
Especially since the way Temu imported packages into the EU already felt like the company was complying with the law already felt abusive... There's must've been a better, more targeted way to...
Especially since the way Temu imported packages into the EU already felt like the company was complying with the law already felt abusive... There's must've been a better, more targeted way to deal with the problem.
Yes, you're right about the primary motivation. There was a secondary intent too. The other intent was a "green tax" on packaging which is a decent idea. They'd be better served by a broad carbon...
Yes, you're right about the primary motivation. There was a secondary intent too.
The other intent was a "green tax" on packaging which is a decent idea. They'd be better served by a broad carbon tax though.
While this framework is clear about addressing environmental concerns around packaging waste, the reality of how one achieves regulatory compliance isn’t as straightforward. One issue many designers cited is the inclusion of the Extended Producer Responsibility (EPR). Not only do businesses need to adhere to the PPWR, which is being enforced across all 27 European Union (EU) member states, but they must also abide by each country’s specific packaging regulations, with rules and interpretations that can vastly differ amongst one another. At the same time, this includes fees as part of the EPR, an existing policy that producers — companies that manufacture or import goods — are obliged to fulfill. Making matters even more complex is the fact that each EU state implements these EPR fees differently. They may include one payment for registration, and then a secondary payment that varies across countries and is dependent on materials used. Josh Fox, designer and founder of Black Armada, pointed out that some countries, such as Spain, even charge an ongoing annual fee in addition to the initial registration fee.
"This is another piece of EU legislation that appears not to have considered small businesses at all,” said Fox in an email to Rascal. “Black Armada absolutely loves our EU customers, but we will be going over our sales stats and each member state's fees to figure out which we can still afford to sell to.”
Several designers and publishers like Black Armada, Genesis of Legend Publishing, and Colin Le Sueur of By Odin’s Beard have immediately ceased shipping to countries that are part of the EU, at least temporarily, until they can figure out their next steps. That’s because one of the primary issues they face is the sheer amount of resources that they need to invest into remaining PPWR compliant. “Multiply [the fees] by 27 states, and you have a big problem,” said Fox. “The best advice for tabletop RPG folks is to figure out which states are sufficiently profitable to offset these fees, and stop selling to the rest. But it's not simple because each member state has its own arrangements, so you need to research each one individually.” Some shared that Fox’s guidance loses feasibility when publishers still have crowdfunding campaign rewards to fulfill. Even Black Armada is still figuring out the logistics of sending games to campaign backers from the EU states.
Losing access to the EU market is another concern. Jason Pitre, founder of Genesis of Legend Publishing Inc., told Rascal that the fear of incurring prohibitive extra costs has dissuaded him from simply ignoring the new rules — a concern also echoed by Le Sueur. “I am concerned about fines and fees, considering I would have to potentially register with all EU member states or pick and choose who I sell to,” said Le Sueur to Rascal. He added that the PPWR may hinder his reach with his EU audience and result in his inability to sell to the EU market, which amounts to losing 10% of his annual revenue. It’s not an insignificant sum, but he pointed out that it wouldn’t put his business under threat for now. “I’ve spent far too many hours this month navigating these new changes, and with the constant possibility of more on the horizon, I’ll have to make a decision whether to ever resume sales to the EU,” he said.
Unique packaging for every member of the bloc feels too onerous to be viable. I wonder to what degree decision makers consider, evaluate the ability of small and mid sized businesses to fulfill...
Unique packaging for every member of the bloc feels too onerous to be viable. I wonder to what degree decision makers consider, evaluate the ability of small and mid sized businesses to fulfill the request.
I don’t think this policy is that poorly thought out? Seems like people agree that universal packaging is beneficial for everyone involved. Naturally, countries also want to retain their right to...
I don’t think this policy is that poorly thought out? Seems like people agree that universal packaging is beneficial for everyone involved. Naturally, countries also want to retain their right to have their own laws around importing goods.
Therefore, this law puts the standard forward and establishes it. Then, while there’s initial pullback from vendors, that pullback will incentivize countries to make their individual requirements quite close to the EUs. There’s economic pressure without being forceful. If there are legitimate reasons for countries to impose more stringent requirements, they still can.
AFAIK the current state is that you have to: have a representative in every single country you want to ship that is liable for your packaging pay the fees that every single country imposes to ship...
AFAIK the current state is that you have to:
have a representative in every single country you want to ship that is liable for your packaging
pay the fees that every single country imposes to ship to that country.
This is a major barrier to the free movement of goods principle that is a founding pillar of the EU. There are also zero exemptions to this law. Most of these laws establish minimums precisely so that tiny and small businesses sending a few packages don't have their entire profits eaten up by the fact that they want to ship to the whole EU, which is again, one of the major pillars of the EU. Even the GDPR has these as far as I understand.
If the PPWR harmonized packaging laws in the EU and created a single spot for businesses to receive representation and certification for the whole of the EU/Schengen zone then it would be a whole different story.
Government and bureaucracy is notoriously slow though. Barring some catastrophic event, governments can struggle to approve policies and responses in a timely fashion. Even life-or-death issues...
Government and bureaucracy is notoriously slow though. Barring some catastrophic event, governments can struggle to approve policies and responses in a timely fashion. Even life-or-death issues can take a ridiculous amount of time to get through legislature.
So it becomes a question of how many small businesses will ultimately have to shut down before the requirements are adjusted.
Also should just have a base list of permitted-everywhere packaging that if you abide by you're good in any member state. If that's premium eco packaging so be it.
Also should just have a base list of permitted-everywhere packaging that if you abide by you're good in any member state. If that's premium eco packaging so be it.
This entire shitshow really is one of the classic EU dilemmas. Brussels wants to unify packaging laws in the union, and the member states resist because it's giving away power to the EU.
The end result is the worst of both worlds. The states retain their various differing laws around sending packages and disposing of packaging waste and the EU adds a mandatory layer of beraucracy on top that's just gonna completely fuck over everyone.
I hate all of this, and the worst thing is that the original intent was even good. If there was a single EU instance to register with this would be way less trouble and likely was the original intent of the law before it got watered down into lava.
I really really really dislike the modern EU.
Don't particularly feel like elaborating, but my main issues are:
I genuinely believe the European Union is doomed to fail in the coming decades and it's going to take Europe many decades to recover from the damage it caused, if it can recover at all. At this point, the main thing holding the EU together is not its values or benefits, but the astronomical cost of its dissolution.
Don't get me wrong, I don't think it's all bad. It has done many good things and has overall been a net positive for Europe up until the early 2010s.
Around 2016 the EU made it mandatory to provide everyone with roaming data if you were travelling in the EU. The GDPR, although a beraucratic beast, is overall a positive because it's the first kind of law that even tries to put a value onto personal data.
It did also give us USB-C on everything fairly recently.
I don't get this doom and gloom, especially since you're being awfully vague? There's a shitton of massive improvements that have ongoing effects like obviously the single currency and the free movement of people and goods. Those are effects that are still here. If the EU went away in "the early 2010s", those effects would disappear and we'd all be a lot worse off.
Don't forget the Instant bank transfers! And what they are working on to make is easier to run a business in all countries. And who knows, maybe the digital euro will actually be what it could be.
I think the EU is a good thing in that it brings us together, and the overreach of its initial intended purpose doesn't have to be a bad thing either. I wish EU countries could be more integrated with each other.
We do have to stop sending our stupidest politicians to retire in the European Parliament though. Truly the Peter Principle in action. And the system is also vulnerable to misguided bickering from the member states and to the corruption, obtuseness, ignorance or just plain maliciousness of the national politicians and delegates making up the EU's other entities. I wish we could overhaul and streamline the whole thing.
The law being debated in this thread is garbage and in my humble opinion needs to be completely scrapped. But for it to have been properly implemented, the EU would have had to be more capable of overriding the national sovereignty of individual member states.
Felt the same way about the implementation of customs tax on every import outside the EU a couple months back. Screw you if the item you want isn't available anywhere in the EU, everybody pays because somebody's aunt wants to buy plastic trash from Temu. Just complete lack of vision, everybody gets the short end of the stick.
Especially since the way Temu imported packages into the EU already felt like the company was complying with the law already felt abusive... There's must've been a better, more targeted way to deal with the problem.
Single platform to register with was supposedly the original goal. Before member states messed it up.
That's most of the problems with any government.
Isn't the original intent just more anti-china protectionism that we europeans have to pay for?
Yes, you're right about the primary motivation. There was a secondary intent too.
The other intent was a "green tax" on packaging which is a decent idea. They'd be better served by a broad carbon tax though.
From the article:
Unique packaging for every member of the bloc feels too onerous to be viable. I wonder to what degree decision makers consider, evaluate the ability of small and mid sized businesses to fulfill the request.
I don’t think this policy is that poorly thought out? Seems like people agree that universal packaging is beneficial for everyone involved. Naturally, countries also want to retain their right to have their own laws around importing goods.
Therefore, this law puts the standard forward and establishes it. Then, while there’s initial pullback from vendors, that pullback will incentivize countries to make their individual requirements quite close to the EUs. There’s economic pressure without being forceful. If there are legitimate reasons for countries to impose more stringent requirements, they still can.
AFAIK the current state is that you have to:
have a representative in every single country you want to ship that is liable for your packaging
pay the fees that every single country imposes to ship to that country.
This is a major barrier to the free movement of goods principle that is a founding pillar of the EU. There are also zero exemptions to this law. Most of these laws establish minimums precisely so that tiny and small businesses sending a few packages don't have their entire profits eaten up by the fact that they want to ship to the whole EU, which is again, one of the major pillars of the EU. Even the GDPR has these as far as I understand.
If the PPWR harmonized packaging laws in the EU and created a single spot for businesses to receive representation and certification for the whole of the EU/Schengen zone then it would be a whole different story.
Government and bureaucracy is notoriously slow though. Barring some catastrophic event, governments can struggle to approve policies and responses in a timely fashion. Even life-or-death issues can take a ridiculous amount of time to get through legislature.
So it becomes a question of how many small businesses will ultimately have to shut down before the requirements are adjusted.
Seems like they could still have a single place to register, even if the laws in different countries have some differences?
Also should just have a base list of permitted-everywhere packaging that if you abide by you're good in any member state. If that's premium eco packaging so be it.
This web site harassed me with dickovers, and I was unable to complete the task of reading this ostensibly published article.