I cannot get into Paper Mario: The Thousand Year Door
Hello,
I am struggling with a relatively useless personal issue, I am finding it very hard to play the aforementioned game mentioned in the post. My close friend has this heralded as his favorite game ever (tied with Majoras Mask) and possible one of the best of all time, and since the remake came out he very graciously lent me his copy. I have just gotten past the first major boss (Hooktail I think his name is) and just playing this game feels like a chore.
The combat is very slow, the dialogue is so overly childish, the story is your typical Nintendo fan-fare story. Even the music, which Nintendo does a great job most of the time, I find just average. I find the Rogueport theme music to be overly obnoxious for some reason, and too grating to my ears for a central city/hub which you're visiting a lot.
I really want to know what I am missing out on that makes this game so beloved by people other than pure nostalgia because I just can't see it. I know it's completely fine to not like games, but I feel a game as acclaimed as this should usually be liked by most people, and I think I usually fall into the subset of that lol.
Ironically enough, this is the same friend who introduced me to FromSoftware and I have loved all of their games.
I find it a very charming game. The dialogue isn't particularly gritty or anything, but it is smart in the way a spongebob's writing is considered is smart. There's a lot of self referential and self-deprecating humor w.r.g to the mario universe.
I've always liked how Paper Mario really stripped away the, sometimes ridiculous, amount of stat padding a lot of RPG games have. The emphasis on command hits keeps you engaged.
If I had to say, I suppose it gives "saturday morning cartoon vibes", especially what are probably most people's favorite chapters, the tournament arc and the train mystery.
The stylization adds a lot as well.
My only gripe with it is the level design. There's way too much backtracking. It gets absurd in chapter 5, the one with vivian.
I think it’s really important to understand that you don’t have to necessarily “like” or “enjoy” artwork in order to be able to appreciate it, and if you learn how to appreciate art (and appreciating art is more than just figuring out what you do and do not like), I think you might find even the stuff that you don’t really “enjoy” compelling enough that you still want to explore and understand it.
Maybe what makes it great doesn’t have anything to do with how fun it is on its own in a vacuum, but rather what it chose to do differently, and how through its influence those choices wound up percolating into the games that are more familiar to you. To figure that stuff out, though, you’ll have to do more than just play the game!
Different strokes? Maybe you aren't missing everything and it just doesn't hit for you. I haven't bothered touching it because it's not going to be my type of game. I feel similarly about a lot of Nintendo actually, there's a lot I admire about the games they make but they rarely capture me.
I spun up Echoes of Wisdom last night and after futzing around for a bit but turned it off to play Alan Wake. I like Echoes of Wisdom, but in a more academic way. For my time something else usually takes priority over whatever Nintendo game is in my back catalog.
It may just not be your thing?
Admittedly I'm really biased here, it's one of my favorite games; I played it when I was 11, and it got me on internet boards via GameFAQs. I personally disagree about all three of your first points... It's turn-based, but I find the partner rock-paper-scissors pretty brisk. The fights don't really go on for more than 1-4 minutes a clip. The story outline is stereotypical RPG fare, definitely, but it ends up being a big lampshade mount for the cast to go on winding and ridiculous little sidequests to get there. The music is off-kilter, and I can see it getting grating if one of the synths rubs you the wrong way. Likewise I think the characters, the dialogue, the backdrops, the way it makes you look in every little corner for NPCs and graffiti on the back of signs, the game punishing you when you cheat on the lottery, and the entire concept chapters, are all off-kilter. And I love all that! It feels slow at times, but I'd chalk that mainly up to some bad dungeon design, backtracking, and Nintendo difficulty.
I think what TTYD gets right, altogether, is it feels like they got the mix of shooting straight and funky self-parody right. I find Paper Mario 1 to be a bit kiddish and especially easy, but ultimately it's still absurdly charming and I'll happily play through it because there's something comforting about the dialogue and aesthetic. TTYD takes that charm, turns it on itself to be as un-Mario as it can with some absolutely alien scenarios, characters, and setting, then pokes fun at mainstay Mario elements and the whole contrived setup. But I find it does this all by trying to keep you on your toes. Like, Goombella makes some weird quip, aside, joke, or note of disgust every time you tattle an enemy - I find this makes collecting the tattle logs an absolute joy! If you don't find them entertaining, then that's OK, and it's understandable you won't find the same incentive to fill it out or keep going.
Playing the remake, I feel the magic is that there was this big ironic smarmfest appreciation that started to happen around the turn of the 00's, where people worshipped breaking the fourth wall. Even when they do it in TTYD, though, the game just never teeters into navel-gazing. It's just happy to give you and itself a little jab in the middle of a conversation with no warning, or to experiment with the game structure for a bit, and then it continues merrily along like everything is normal. It's weird, it's un-Mario, but it's done with love. At the same time I find it runs off a bulletproof, simple turn-based system, and it makes you want to play it by trying to trick you into thinking something unexpected is around every corner. I find the most addicting game system is making me think I might laugh every time I hit A.
If you don't enjoy the script, or find it funny, and the pacing has you down, that's a-OK and you can probably stop playing. But...
spoiler alert...
if you drop out early, then you don't get to see an entire chapter of a Mario RPG forget there's a combat system for like half an hour while it turns into Murder on the Orient Express. With a snotty posh Bob-omb family and an airhead detective penguin. And that's the kind of goofy, offhand shit that Nintendo can't be so experimental with again, lest they tarnish the sanctity of their beloved golden cow. (He has a movie deal, y'know! With Chris Pratt!)Maybe it's not the right time? I have to be in the right mood or frame of mind for specific games, albums, movies. Pick another and come back to this later. No need to try to force it.
I bought this and Princess Peach Showtime at the same time. Really enjoyed Princess Peach, similarly struggled to get into Paper Mario. It’s fine, but I have no nostalgia for it. Zelda TotK felt kind of like a chore, but I got into it for a while after setting it aside. I keep hoping maybe that will happen with Paper Mario, too.
Anyway, I don’t share all the exact same feelings, but you’re definitely not alone.