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Weekly coronavirus-related chat, questions, and minor updates - week of February 8
This thread is posted weekly, and is intended as a place for more-casual discussion of the coronavirus and questions/updates that may not warrant their own dedicated topics. Tell us about what the situation is like where you live!
I'm hesitant to make a standalone post to talk about the state of things in Belgium. I mentioned a few days ago that I'm frustrated with the completely schizophrenic preventative measures.
What do the results look like, concretely? They look like this: https://twitter.com/BartMesuere/status/1358358351340568578/photo/1
There's a lot of self-congratulations in that twitter thread but the reality is, this is a high plateau, and we are sacrificing concretely more than we would if we were trying to get to near-zero.
The first lockdown, from March 2020, lasted two months and lowered the numbers down to near-zero, which lasted until mid-september, with basically everything having reopened for several months (bars, gyms and cinemas included).
Our second lockdown has not been as severe, but has been going on for over four months and THIS IS THE RESULT. A high plateau. Everything is still closed. They're reopening hairdressers because people are going fucking insane.
This is severely affecting people's mental health, mine included. Out of wanting to strike a middle ground between locking down completely and allowing some freedom, we instead have been nationally unable to go to gyms, bars etc for months and people are fed up with it, to the point that it's fueling an anti-science sentiment because right now, the most vocal anti-lockdown people are also anti-science, so they're gaining a lot of support.
This is a serious fucking problem. I don't believe Belgium is alone in this situation, a lot of european countries find themselves in a somewhat similar predicament. The ship is headed for the iceberg and we're completely, collectively powerless to stop it. There is no acknowledgement of this damage. People make it about "health vs economy" but there is so much more to it.
In a previous comment, I talked a bit about this. I know a lot of people here on Tildes, especially those from the other side of the atlantic, are frustrated that their state/country is not taking COVID seriously and I fully understand that. But, dangerous and selfish as it is, the american "fuck it" strategy is a strategy if you commit to it and because of Trump, america did commit to it long enough to start vaccinating. And America, globally, is doing pretty well on vaccinations. So even though the US was doing horribly badly in 2020, it looks a LOT better in 2021 (even if the numbers don't show it quite well).
On the other side of the world, South Korea takes things very seriously and regularly locks down the country and/or individual cities. But it does so strictly, and is able to resume normal life on a regular basis. Does it suck to keep toggling things on and off? Sure does, but at least life is normal on a regular basis.
The Belgian lockdown is planned to last until April 1st, extended from March 1st. I've reached the point where I'm considering moving out of the country for a few months, to get some sanity back, and maybe even potentially get vaccinated earlier than I would be here. Nobody even bothers talking about reopening the rinks. Two of them have shut down permanently due to bankruptcy. I feel like my sport, one which thankfully happens to be extremely COVID-friendly, has been stolen from me right as I was able to fully commit to it.
To be fair though, I think the situation with that high plateau has more to do with the seasonal nature of covid than anything else. Locking down in march for two months puts you right into summer where you don't really have to lock down, depending on how things go. Cancelling mass congregations will do most of the work already. Then in fall, cases rise, the reaction comes, cases fall. So far, so boring. But the measures that worked in October won't work in December because the situation is different. People are inside more, it's colder, so the curve that you could make decline sharply in November won't fall as sharply in January. Add in that in a prolonged lockdown, measures just don't work so well anymore because people get sloppy and tired, and you see the above.
Now, what's the alternative? I'm not convinced a hammer-and-dance approach works over the winter. The virus recovers so quickly. Look at how quickly the cases went up in october. 2x in a week, easily. Even the most stringent lockdown with good compliance wouldn't buy you much time in that kind of a situation. You'll be locked down tight for a month for a week or two of freedom.
That said, I don't know what exact measures Belgium is employing right now, so this interpretation should be taken with a grain of salt.
Korea and japan on the other hand... I don't know how they do it, but having no (permeable) land borders and previous experience with SARS certainly helps. Sprinkle in national stereotypes about collectivist societies and you've got a reasonably well controlled epidemic. Though I'm not sure how much credence to give to said stereotypes. I think it's mostly the lack of land borders.
Unrelated PS: I saw a call for volunteers in Brussels to test the german CureVac vaccine. I'm eligible, so I've signed up.
Ron Wright, a member of the US House from Texas, died last night from COVID-19. He's the first sitting member of Congress to die from it.
New ‘do not resuscitate’ orders imposed on Covid-19 patients with learning difficulties
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I've seen several arguments in favor of this, and they make me so angry.
The first argument is, "people with learning/developmental disabilities won't be able to handle the rehabilitation from severe illness." Firstly, that just means you should devote more resources to helping them recover, not give up and let them die. And secondly, do they think abled people who have been through severe illness don't also need a lot of help? People with residual effects of the ICU and/or long COVID are likely dealing with cognitive effects ("brain fog") or even the results of strokes. They might have difficulties managing their recovery, but again, the solution is to help them.
The other argument I've seen is that disabled people will have reduced "quality of life" after severe COVID. But doctors consistently rate disabled people's quality of life much lower than disabled people do themselves. So it's outright dangerous to take medical opinions about quality of life as an objective measure of illness outcomes. You're relying on a group of people with proven ableist beliefs about what lives are worth living to decide who deserves to live.
A related Tildes topic: Doctors share views on patients with disability.
Judge denies Publix’s request to dismiss COVID-19 wrongful death case
The defense of "this should be handled by worker's comp" seems plausible on its face, but is really a subtle bit of legal trickery:
Apparently in Florida, if you're not married and all your children are adults, there is no legal recourse for your employer negligently killing you.
If opening schools is so important, why are we skimping on protections that curb COVID?
Reddit AskScience having an AMA today:
AskScience AMA Series at 5 PM ET (22 UT): We are Bechara Choucair, Carole Johnson, and Tim Manning, the vaccine, testing, and supply coordinators for the White House COVID-19 Response Team. AUA!
Judge grants eviction against St. Peters woman too sick from COVID-19 to be allowed in courthouse
She catches covid, which means she can't work. Which means she can't pay rent. Which means her landlord files for eviction.
Still has covid on her court date, which meant she wasn't allowed to enter the courthouse for her eviction proceeding, and her eviction was approved.
Oh, also she's recovering from cancer.
0 deaths, only 4 severe cases among 523,000 fully vaccinated Israelis
How You Make an Adenovirus Vaccine
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In a major new pandemic trend, people are turning to carbon dioxide monitoring devices to help assess ventilation quality
I don’t know if it will work, but I’m glad they’re allowed to try. If it were a medical test, it would be illegal.
The B117 variant is apparently at ~9.5% in Florida, ~3.9% in California:
https://twitter.com/alexbolze/status/1359749742922665990
I have an odd question and was wondering if any of the Tildes folks might have an insight. How are the vaccine side effects different from standard Covid side effects. I have a number of people within my daily life saying they are unsure about the vaccine because we don't know about the side effects and my thinking is that any side effect you might get with the vaccine would be an equivalent or lesser version of what you would get by actually getting Covid. Is this true or is there the possibility of getting a more severe reaction to the vaccine than the virus itself?
Many of the viral symptoms are not specifically caused by the virus - rather, it's caused by your body as its defense. That includes fever, coughing, and so forth. Those are the body's attempt to defeat the virus.
So yes, the vaccine causes an immune response, which causes the side effects like fever in the immediate present. But that's just the body freaking out temporarily because it detects foreign invaders (the spike proteins the RNA causes your cells to produce). Unlike the actual virus, those spike proteins are just spike proteins, so they're not going to damage cells or reproduce. So the body will quickly calm down, and the side effects will subside.
I appreciate the accessible write up, it would be great if the CDC had a well funded science communication arm.
We do know about the side effects - fever, chills, some aches. Typically lasts a day or two, then back to normal. No known deaths or serious illnesses from vaccines.
Seems plausible that someone could potentially get a day or two of some mild aches/fever from the vaccine where they may have been completely asymptomatic had they gotten the virus, but that's basically irrelevant. Why would you take the gamble of risking death over a day or two of very mild symptoms?
Good to know. I'm not against taking the vaccine, I'm looking for concrete info to share to people in my life who are. I really appreciate all of the responses, if you're up for a deep dive do you know of any peer reviewed articles or journals that address the question?
No, I don't have any articles for you right off the top of my head. But the vast majority of the scientific community, including the White House scientific advisor who has dedicated his entire adult life to studying infectious diseases (Dr. Fauci) has said the vaccines we have are safe and effective (he's even taken one himself). If your friends and family are unwilling to take that as a solid endorsement, then I'm afraid them reading a peer reviewed study isn't going to change their mind.
The short of it is it's not going to get any more "concrete" than the highest scientific advisors recommending people take the vaccine.
Out of all the people vaccinated during the tests, none of them have died of Covid-19 or vaccine related issues. That alone should tell you the vaccine is better than getting sick.
I totally agree. I am going to get the vaccine as soon as humanly possible. I just want to have some concrete evidence to show that the potential side effects of the vaccine are equal to or much more commonly much less than actually getting Covid. I think people see it as having potentially worse side effects. Our neighbor was talking about wanting kids and how the vaccine could cause fertility issues which struck me as alarmist but I other than talking through my thought process I didn't have something concrete to point to.
My mother is an educator who had Covid AND got the vaccine, it had her in bed for a day as opposed to 10 days at the hospital with Covid. She said she never wants to do Covid again where she can put up with another shot of vaccine, but she can only speak for herself.
My brother who had a doctor's appointment last Wednesday, was checked by someone who he was just informed tested Covid positive today, and now I am off work until I'm clear to put a poke up my nose and prove that I'm not contagious with the thing I've already had in May. Normally I wouldn't mind missing work, and I can be courteous and understanding in that we're living in trying time, but I'm frustrated in no particular direction because if there was damage, it's already done, and I'm missing work on a new job. (And I know that I'm justified in missing work since it's policy and morally the right thing to do, but I'm still not happy about it.)
Prof Abdool Karim outlines future usage of AstraZeneca vaccine in South Africa
Top Seattle PD officials asked King County Jail officials to override COVID restrictions and book nonviolent protestors. They complied.
Nature has a very in-depth article about rapid testing:
Rapid coronavirus tests: a guide for the perplexed
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Some California Schools Are Testing Kids For the Coronavirus Twice a Week Before Letting Them Inside
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It seems encouraging. I wonder why it's twice a week and not every day?