I inhaled burning plastic to bag little bits of food for people's dinner boxes, along side my co-workers. Whether the employees are educated or not, whether there is regulation or understanding of...
Exemplary
I inhaled burning plastic to bag little bits of food for people's dinner boxes, along side my co-workers. Whether the employees are educated or not, whether there is regulation or understanding of the dangers of not, human lives are treated like burdensome garbage and we need workers' human rights raised now.
People will absolutely, as the article says, scoff at measures made to protect them because they can't grasp the effects and risks. In Canada, this means the long term, complex healthcare liabilities are socialized while entrepreneurial dipshits are given B corp status. Many people that live in poverty with servere health issues from societal externalities also do not get reach out for health care, as it's either inaccessible OR society (including the workers, also) blames them for their missteps and misfortunes.
I do not blame those workers for cutting those countertops without water and proper respiratorators, because this is a huge social issue that needs less stigmatized discussion and more culpable leadership. Choosing a side in the fight between worker education and production goals is a death by a thousand cuts to anyone or anything that tries to stop millions of 'independent' contractors from killing themselves to provide for their families.
I'm not big on blame when it comes to solving systemic issues. I do think worker education is important, particularly when the whole culture needs to change. Eventually some of those workers are...
I'm not big on blame when it comes to solving systemic issues. I do think worker education is important, particularly when the whole culture needs to change. Eventually some of those workers are likely to start small businesses of their own. The sort of person who scoffs at their own safety protection isn't likely to do better when they're the boss.
Work is done by people. Changing how businesses operate is what government regulation is all about. Enforcement has its place, but for example, at a restaurant, the health inspector isn't going to be in the room when the people at the restaurant decide what to do today.
Safety has to become just the way things are done, as a persistent part of the culture.
(But there are also technical fixes like changing how the materials they work with are made.)
Unfortunately, we live in a society of idiots that have been weaponized against "big gubbment," science and anything that means >0.00001% less profit for a company. We had nearly 50% of the US...
Unfortunately, we live in a society of idiots that have been weaponized against "big gubbment," science and anything that means >0.00001% less profit for a company.
We had nearly 50% of the US fighting against something as simple as wearing a facemask during a pandemic. They fought against not just the science but they also fought against the social mores. I mean even the Bible talks about covering your face and moving out of the city (social distancing) that the religious population completely ignored.
Yes, the people are unruly and don’t like being told what to do. They also tend to polarize over just about anything. This makes many cultural changes very difficult. But it’s worth pointing out...
Yes, the people are unruly and don’t like being told what to do. They also tend to polarize over just about anything. This makes many cultural changes very difficult.
But it’s worth pointing out that cultural changes do happen. Often it’s easier within an organization than in society at large, because it becomes “the way things are done here” regardless of what people do outside, and new people have to adapt.
It doesn't matter how uneducated or dumb the employee is. It's simply the responsibility of the employer to ensure safety compliance regardless . If I repeatedly failed to perform my...
It doesn't matter how uneducated or dumb the employee is. It's simply the responsibility of the employer to ensure safety compliance regardless .
If I repeatedly failed to perform my multiple-per-shift temperature checks when I worked fast food, I would be fired.
If people refuse to wear PPE or use dust reducing wet saws, they should be reprimanded until they do, or fired.
Businesses should be forced to have the highest possible protection for their employees, and be forced to require them to use it.
We already have controls in place for this. They just aren't being utilized how they should be
Yes, that’s the way it should be, but you need the right culture at management level. It’s not a business I know well, but my understanding is that restaurant franchises are a running a system...
Yes, that’s the way it should be, but you need the right culture at management level. It’s not a business I know well, but my understanding is that restaurant franchises are a running a system that’s specified in pretty elaborate detail (that’s what the owners buy into when they start a franchise) and restaurant management can pretty much do what it says in the manual. This is a system that propagates a certain business culture, resulting in more consistency.
Restaurants didn’t start out that way, though, and restaurant business culture doesn’t always spread that way. Ethnic restaurants typically aren’t large chains, but they have business cultures too.
For these tiny contractors, there is likely no system other than what people know from experience and management might just be one person who might not know much more than the workers.
One could imagine a system that’s more tightly controlled, though. I wonder what Home Depot does?
One way or another all safety regulations are written in blood. Some are just more obvious than others. I remind people of that every time they comment on "some stupid rule that makes no sense." I...
One way or another all safety regulations are written in blood. Some are just more obvious than others. I remind people of that every time they comment on "some stupid rule that makes no sense." I remind them that it certainly would have made a difference to the victim zero that suffered from it.
Yes. Rules aren't intelligent and there are situations where the results might not make sense, but you need to be well-informed before thinking about how best to modify them. In medicine, that's...
Yes. Rules aren't intelligent and there are situations where the results might not make sense, but you need to be well-informed before thinking about how best to modify them.
In medicine, that's why there are doctors.
Unfortunately, it can be a challenge just to get people to read the directions where safety hazards are documented. (Often they're quite poorly written and people are in a hurry.)
In industry, it should be possible to think of this as a system and fix safety hazards systematically, but only some larger businesses are prepared to do it. In residential home construction, there are a lot of tiny contractors.
As the government gets stricter, maybe that will change?
I didn't make the connection to warning labels. I guess that's sort of true, indirectly. But I expect that many warning labels are about things that actually happened, even if it seems obvious or...
I didn't make the connection to warning labels. I guess that's sort of true, indirectly.
But I expect that many warning labels are about things that actually happened, even if it seems obvious or unlikely.
Also "makes zero sense" usually means "makes zero sense for the average person under average conditions" which of course it doesn't, because unless you are in a literal warzone safety is about...
Also "makes zero sense" usually means "makes zero sense for the average person under average conditions" which of course it doesn't, because unless you are in a literal warzone safety is about people at the margin under extreme conditions (e.g. very tired, drunk, etc). Reducing an accident rate from 1/10,000 to 1/100,000 is a massive improvement but not something that is necessarily noticeable on a day to day basis.
Not being well versed in this space, are there alternatives that don't come with notable downsides? When I was house shopping, those with kitchens equipped with quartz countertops were preferred...
Not being well versed in this space, are there alternatives that don't come with notable downsides?
When I was house shopping, those with kitchens equipped with quartz countertops were preferred because of how practical that type of surface is. It's easy to clean, doesn't scar easily like formica/laminate, doesn't have grout that's a pain to clean and keep nice looking like tile, and isn't as temperature sensitive as other types of stone.
Of course worker safety should be the priority but it's still unfortunate if there isn't something as good that can replace it without endangering peoples' health.
I'm hardly an expert, but I don't really see what's wrong with laminate. Cut on a cutting board. If through some disaster the laminate does get damaged, replacing the countertop would probably be...
I'm hardly an expert, but I don't really see what's wrong with laminate. Cut on a cutting board. If through some disaster the laminate does get damaged, replacing the countertop would probably be a whole lot easier than working with stone, and you'd still come out ahead.
I grew up in a house that was built in the 70's with some kind of white laminate countertops. I don't know what material it is, but it still looks fine?
If you ever have to cut stone, that's a whole lot of nasty dust. We have granite countertops and bought a new sink that was just slightly too big. Had to put plastic over everything and hire someone to do the job. (I don't remember how good they were about their own dust protection.)
Though, it's apparently also true that you should be careful about sawdust. I don't know how the risks compare.
The houses I grew up in had some kind of laminate countertops too. Maybe it's a matter of quality or brand but neither wore particularly well, even when avoiding cutting on it directly… visible...
The houses I grew up in had some kind of laminate countertops too. Maybe it's a matter of quality or brand but neither wore particularly well, even when avoiding cutting on it directly… visible wear spots appeared on frequently used areas and dings accumulated over the years from utensils being dropped and the like, which disinclined me from that type of countertop.
Laminate is also much less forgiving of heat. Whereas with other types of countertop you can get away with a few seconds of a hot pot sitting directly on it, laminate will melt, and it's nice to have that option when things don't go as planned.
Yeah, we have a ton of options here even if we want to give up entirely on masonry. Wood, tile, concrete, etc. are, when treated and maintained, nonporous, will last as long as any occupant would...
Yeah, we have a ton of options here even if we want to give up entirely on masonry. Wood, tile, concrete, etc. are, when treated and maintained, nonporous, will last as long as any occupant would live, can tolerate heat, and won't scuff badly. With that in mind, laminate trades off durability and aesthetics for the sake of easy industrialized manufacturing, and very little else. It's cheap to install, and if it's what you have, it's fine, but I don't know why anyone would want it over the other materials.
Maybe butcher block? Stainless is a bit too much like a morgue. Or somehow getting the pieces secondhand or accepting offcuts may be more economical/involve less injury.
Maybe butcher block? Stainless is a bit too much like a morgue. Or somehow getting the pieces secondhand or accepting offcuts may be more economical/involve less injury.
Granite is at least a step in the right direction in this area. It's not an elimination of silica, but it apparently contains half of what quartz was. Marble contains very little, but that's...
Granite is at least a step in the right direction in this area. It's not an elimination of silica, but it apparently contains half of what quartz was. Marble contains very little, but that's likely financially of reach for most people. Corian is another alternative, but isn't a durable or heat resistant as stone. I'd take any of those over formica. Tile is also a pain to keep clean due to grout, and I don't like that look for countertops.
The disease dates back centuries, but researchers say the booming popularity of countertops made of engineered stone, which has much higher concentrations of silica than many kinds of natural stone, has driven a new epidemic of an accelerated form of the suffocating illness. As the dangerous dust builds up and scars the lungs, the disease can leave workers short of breath, weakened and ultimately suffering from lung failure.
"You can get a transplant," Cabrera told the man in Spanish, "but it won't last."
In California, it has begun to debilitate young workers, largely Latino immigrants who cut and polish slabs of engineered stone. Instead of cropping up in people in their 60s or 70s after decades of exposure, it is now afflicting men in their 20s, 30s or 40s, said Dr. Jane Fazio, a pulmonary critical care physician who became alarmed by cases she saw at Olive View-UCLA Medical Center. Some California patients have died in their 30s.
...
The risk is serious for workers in the industry: Although estimates of its prevalence vary from study to study, some screenings in Australia have found roughly 1 in 5 stone workers had the disease. In California, workplace safety regulators have estimated that out of roughly 4,000 workers in the industry across the state, silicosis will afflict between 485 and 848 — and that as many as 161 could ultimately die.
...
The San Fernando Valley is a hub for the stone "fabrication" industry — those who cut and polish the slabs made by manufacturers — and county officials also said that growing awareness spurred by Fazio and others may have resulted in better reporting of such cases in L.A. In July, the state sent out an advisory to healthcare providers about the threat, recommending that physicians ask if ailing patients have worked as countertop cutters and urging them to report any identified cases of silicosis to the state.
California workplace safety regulators are now drafting emergency rules to try to protect workers as engineered stone has come to dominate the countertop industry. The material is also sometimes called artificial or synthetic stone, made with crushed quartz bound together with resin. L.A. County is exploring whether to go further and ban the sale and installation of "silica engineered stone" entirely.
...
In Australia, where the government is weighing whether to ban engineered stone, a professional group whose members assess worker health hazards concluded that the high concentration of silica in engineered stone makes it difficult for measures such as wet cutting and ventilation to adequately protect workers.
Additional measures for respiratory protection are needed, but such systems "have largely been absent from this sector," the Australian Institute of Occupational Hygienists wrote. In light of those concerns, it recommended prohibiting engineered stone containing more than 10% crystalline silica, but said it would also support banning all engineered stone because of the rigorous compliance needed even at a 10% level.
Would masks work at all? Though that brings up the issue of this being a job that's taken by tons of tiny outfits who will likely not bother with investing in proper PPE
Would masks work at all? Though that brings up the issue of this being a job that's taken by tons of tiny outfits who will likely not bother with investing in proper PPE
When fitted properly, a P100 respirator would remove 99.97% of 0.3 um particles. This class of respirators is used in variety of environments, from medical to industrial to radiological. That...
When fitted properly, a P100 respirator would remove 99.97% of 0.3 um particles. This class of respirators is used in variety of environments, from medical to industrial to radiological.
That said, the hierarchy of controls dictates engineered controls as being preferable to PPE, which is considered to be the last line of defense.
My thinking is that a lot of this type of work isn't done in a shop as such, where you can build ventilation and enclosed room and whatnot, but rather on-site? Granted, my knowledge is based on...
My thinking is that a lot of this type of work isn't done in a shop as such, where you can build ventilation and enclosed room and whatnot, but rather on-site? Granted, my knowledge is based on wooden kitchen counters, where they'll cut the holes and do the final work (but no polishing or such) right there.
The issue with masks is also wearing them right... we use FFP3 masks at work (reusables, with big thick filters, silicone body), and getting the right seal means being clean shaven, means tightening the straps right, etc. I've 100% been in the position where laziness meant it wasn't sitting properly. Fortunately what we're dealing with isn't nearly as bad as the stuff in the article.
I seem to recall (from an NPR thing a year or so ago) that a lot of this final work is done in steel framed, warehouse-type buildings, which makes sense: cheap, protects the product, contains dust...
I seem to recall (from an NPR thing a year or so ago) that a lot of this final work is done in steel framed, warehouse-type buildings, which makes sense: cheap, protects the product, contains dust from the general public. For total separation of the workers, you’d need to add a negative pressure ventilation system, with a robust barrier between the control room and the production side. That’s likely to drive up costs significantly (negating an advantage of engineered stone).
But Raphael Metzger, a Long Beach attorney who represents Segura Meza and other workers suing manufacturers of engineered stone such as Cambria and Caesarstone for damages, argued that typical respirators and other standard measures don't go far enough. Even with many "wet methods," workers can be exposed to dangerous levels of silica and need additional protection, NIOSH research has found.
Maybe a good use case for automation? If we could manufacture these in a closed environment with no people (perhaps using a CNC-type machine), it would prevent this issue.
Maybe a good use case for automation? If we could manufacture these in a closed environment with no people (perhaps using a CNC-type machine), it would prevent this issue.
In theory, a company that makes the countertops could ship them pre-cut and they’d have a lot more control over the process in their factory (automated or not), so they could do it right. It would...
In theory, a company that makes the countertops could ship them pre-cut and they’d have a lot more control over the process in their factory (automated or not), so they could do it right. It would be easy enough if they were making tables or benches with stone tops.
The construction industry didn’t end up structured that way, though. Sure, there are lots of manufactured components, but also lots of work is done on site, and they need the flexibility that comes from cutting things to fit.
Example: if there’s a metal sink, you can’t change the size of the sink, so the counter is what needs to be cut. Some part of the structure has to customizable enough to accommodate the fixed components. (Often that’s wood.)
I don’t know how the countertop industry is structured though.
There is typically a stone manufacturer that sells just stone slabs (either natural or engineered). These are manufactured or ground to thickness and usually polished, but have rough edges and...
There is typically a stone manufacturer that sells just stone slabs (either natural or engineered). These are manufactured or ground to thickness and usually polished, but have rough edges and come in varying sizes based on the stone. A countertop fabricator (the company you as a homeowner or contractor would end up going to for the actual countertops) will buy those slabs from the manufacturer. They will come to your house, make a template, and fabricate your countertops from the templates. They're the ones that do most of the cutting - cutting the slab down to countertop size, holes for sinks/outlets/cooktops, rounding the edges, etc. Any exposed cuts are polished. The only cuts they'll make on-site might be faucets or soap dispensers. I've had some do this after install with a drill and vacuum, and some do it before hand in their shop.
Most stone countertops will have undermount sinks. Because the cutout of the sink hole is exposed and require polishing, those can't be done on-site. If you supply the sink, they'll take it with them for cutting out the hole.
Countertops just can't be precut. There are too many kitchen cabinet configurations for that to be possible.
Good to know. So it’s not onsite, but it’s a local shop. It seems like in theory some kind of franchise could work? It could be like Kinkos. They could put in the machinery as “this is how we run...
Good to know.
So it’s not onsite, but it’s a local shop. It seems like in theory some kind of franchise could work? It could be like Kinkos. They could put in the machinery as “this is how we run our shops. Buy this model. Do it like this.”
I wonder why something like that hasn’t happened yet?
Hmm, I suppose it could work in theory. But the construction industry doesn't really do much franchising in general. I imagine that people who are in that industry and are used to doing everything...
Hmm, I suppose it could work in theory. But the construction industry doesn't really do much franchising in general. I imagine that people who are in that industry and are used to doing everything themselves wouldn't take kindly to a corporation telling them how to do their jobs and run their business.
I'm guessing someone who starts a restaurant needs to invest quite a bit of money and a business plan that more-or-less guarantees results (or at least reduces risk) is attractive to some owners,...
I'm guessing someone who starts a restaurant needs to invest quite a bit of money and a business plan that more-or-less guarantees results (or at least reduces risk) is attractive to some owners, looking at it as an investor?
It doesn't seem like that's what's going on with contracting?
When you are buying into a franchise, you're basically buying into a brand. The reason that a franchise model tells you to purchase (or sells you) specific equipment, gives you recipes and...
When you are buying into a franchise, you're basically buying into a brand. The reason that a franchise model tells you to purchase (or sells you) specific equipment, gives you recipes and supplies, etc is because the franchise corporation will strongly dictate how you run your business in order to maintain its brand standards. McDonalds is a classic example of this. Every McDonalds that you go to, at least in the US (their menu varies around the world), is pretty much identical. They are super consistent and have extremely stringent franchise standards. For better or worse, you know what you're getting when you go there. But as a franchisee, you have to take their trainings, use their decor, buy their ingredients and equipment, and operate to their standards.
So you franchise a restaurant when you want to "own" a business, but don't want to have to build a brand from the bottom up. It's a very powerful model in the restaurant industry, because lots of people prefer to eat places that they know as opposed to new/unknown places, so they eat at chains. It's also why most franchisees own multiple locations - the work of marketing, supply chain, corporate management, etc is all done by the corporation. So you have time to run multiple locations with less overhead. You also get to take advantage of McDonalds economies of scale with their supplier, which helps keep costs down.
The construction industry doesn't really care much about brand when it comes to the service side of things, and even for most materials. That's why there aren't really national contracting firms, at least for residential services. There are indeed some exceptions, such as Bath Fitter, but it's so rare. The expense of a franchise model doesn't really make sense if the value of a franchise is the brand, but the industry doesn't care about branding.
And to reinforce your ideas here, people will tend to eat at franchises they know and have learned to trust to some degree, because people eat food several times a day. But I’ll be honest I...
And to reinforce your ideas here, people will tend to eat at franchises they know and have learned to trust to some degree, because people eat food several times a day. But I’ll be honest I struggle to see a regular person getting benchtops even half a dozen times across an entire lifetime, so the opportunity to built trust and recognition and brand identity just isn’t there.
This breaks my heart to read these men, not even my age (31), have terminal diagnoses. I truly hope the state (and country, and world) does something to ban these or get workers supplied masks and...
This breaks my heart to read these men, not even my age (31), have terminal diagnoses. I truly hope the state (and country, and world) does something to ban these or get workers supplied masks and anything else they need to be safe. Hell, no one needs a damned stone countertop. Ban them and have something safer replace it. It's a damn countertop.
I inhaled burning plastic to bag little bits of food for people's dinner boxes, along side my co-workers. Whether the employees are educated or not, whether there is regulation or understanding of the dangers of not, human lives are treated like burdensome garbage and we need workers' human rights raised now.
People will absolutely, as the article says, scoff at measures made to protect them because they can't grasp the effects and risks. In Canada, this means the long term, complex healthcare liabilities are socialized while entrepreneurial dipshits are given B corp status. Many people that live in poverty with servere health issues from societal externalities also do not get reach out for health care, as it's either inaccessible OR society (including the workers, also) blames them for their missteps and misfortunes.
I do not blame those workers for cutting those countertops without water and proper respiratorators, because this is a huge social issue that needs less stigmatized discussion and more culpable leadership. Choosing a side in the fight between worker education and production goals is a death by a thousand cuts to anyone or anything that tries to stop millions of 'independent' contractors from killing themselves to provide for their families.
I'm not big on blame when it comes to solving systemic issues. I do think worker education is important, particularly when the whole culture needs to change. Eventually some of those workers are likely to start small businesses of their own. The sort of person who scoffs at their own safety protection isn't likely to do better when they're the boss.
Work is done by people. Changing how businesses operate is what government regulation is all about. Enforcement has its place, but for example, at a restaurant, the health inspector isn't going to be in the room when the people at the restaurant decide what to do today.
Safety has to become just the way things are done, as a persistent part of the culture.
(But there are also technical fixes like changing how the materials they work with are made.)
Unfortunately, we live in a society of idiots that have been weaponized against "big gubbment," science and anything that means >0.00001% less profit for a company.
We had nearly 50% of the US fighting against something as simple as wearing a facemask during a pandemic. They fought against not just the science but they also fought against the social mores. I mean even the Bible talks about covering your face and moving out of the city (social distancing) that the religious population completely ignored.
We have a whole political party in a race to repeal any law passed in the last 50-100 years it seems like. Abortion, civil rights, child labor, child marriageand worker safety. They've tried to get rid of OSHA already.
Yes, the people are unruly and don’t like being told what to do. They also tend to polarize over just about anything. This makes many cultural changes very difficult.
But it’s worth pointing out that cultural changes do happen. Often it’s easier within an organization than in society at large, because it becomes “the way things are done here” regardless of what people do outside, and new people have to adapt.
It doesn't matter how uneducated or dumb the employee is. It's simply the responsibility of the employer to ensure safety compliance regardless .
If I repeatedly failed to perform my multiple-per-shift temperature checks when I worked fast food, I would be fired.
If people refuse to wear PPE or use dust reducing wet saws, they should be reprimanded until they do, or fired.
Businesses should be forced to have the highest possible protection for their employees, and be forced to require them to use it.
We already have controls in place for this. They just aren't being utilized how they should be
Yes, that’s the way it should be, but you need the right culture at management level. It’s not a business I know well, but my understanding is that restaurant franchises are a running a system that’s specified in pretty elaborate detail (that’s what the owners buy into when they start a franchise) and restaurant management can pretty much do what it says in the manual. This is a system that propagates a certain business culture, resulting in more consistency.
Restaurants didn’t start out that way, though, and restaurant business culture doesn’t always spread that way. Ethnic restaurants typically aren’t large chains, but they have business cultures too.
For these tiny contractors, there is likely no system other than what people know from experience and management might just be one person who might not know much more than the workers.
One could imagine a system that’s more tightly controlled, though. I wonder what Home Depot does?
Discussion of the same disease but quartz countertops here. Regulations are written in blood. https://tildes.net/~health/18n2/medical_researchers_report_that_the_workers_who_make_quartz_countertops_are_dying_of_lung_disease
One way or another all safety regulations are written in blood. Some are just more obvious than others. I remind people of that every time they comment on "some stupid rule that makes no sense." I remind them that it certainly would have made a difference to the victim zero that suffered from it.
Yes. Rules aren't intelligent and there are situations where the results might not make sense, but you need to be well-informed before thinking about how best to modify them.
In medicine, that's why there are doctors.
Unfortunately, it can be a challenge just to get people to read the directions where safety hazards are documented. (Often they're quite poorly written and people are in a hurry.)
In industry, it should be possible to think of this as a system and fix safety hazards systematically, but only some larger businesses are prepared to do it. In residential home construction, there are a lot of tiny contractors.
As the government gets stricter, maybe that will change?
Honestly? Not as long as lawyers are going for quantity over quality.
Huh? What do lawyers have to do with it?
Huh! are you kidding?
Lawyers are responsible for almost all the warning labels on the planet..
I didn't make the connection to warning labels. I guess that's sort of true, indirectly.
But I expect that many warning labels are about things that actually happened, even if it seems obvious or unlikely.
Also "makes zero sense" usually means "makes zero sense for the average person under average conditions" which of course it doesn't, because unless you are in a literal warzone safety is about people at the margin under extreme conditions (e.g. very tired, drunk, etc). Reducing an accident rate from 1/10,000 to 1/100,000 is a massive improvement but not something that is necessarily noticeable on a day to day basis.
Australia is in the process of banning this particular type of benchtop.
Not being well versed in this space, are there alternatives that don't come with notable downsides?
When I was house shopping, those with kitchens equipped with quartz countertops were preferred because of how practical that type of surface is. It's easy to clean, doesn't scar easily like formica/laminate, doesn't have grout that's a pain to clean and keep nice looking like tile, and isn't as temperature sensitive as other types of stone.
Of course worker safety should be the priority but it's still unfortunate if there isn't something as good that can replace it without endangering peoples' health.
I'm hardly an expert, but I don't really see what's wrong with laminate. Cut on a cutting board. If through some disaster the laminate does get damaged, replacing the countertop would probably be a whole lot easier than working with stone, and you'd still come out ahead.
I grew up in a house that was built in the 70's with some kind of white laminate countertops. I don't know what material it is, but it still looks fine?
If you ever have to cut stone, that's a whole lot of nasty dust. We have granite countertops and bought a new sink that was just slightly too big. Had to put plastic over everything and hire someone to do the job. (I don't remember how good they were about their own dust protection.)
Though, it's apparently also true that you should be careful about sawdust. I don't know how the risks compare.
The houses I grew up in had some kind of laminate countertops too. Maybe it's a matter of quality or brand but neither wore particularly well, even when avoiding cutting on it directly… visible wear spots appeared on frequently used areas and dings accumulated over the years from utensils being dropped and the like, which disinclined me from that type of countertop.
Laminate is also much less forgiving of heat. Whereas with other types of countertop you can get away with a few seconds of a hot pot sitting directly on it, laminate will melt, and it's nice to have that option when things don't go as planned.
Yeah, we have a ton of options here even if we want to give up entirely on masonry. Wood, tile, concrete, etc. are, when treated and maintained, nonporous, will last as long as any occupant would live, can tolerate heat, and won't scuff badly. With that in mind, laminate trades off durability and aesthetics for the sake of easy industrialized manufacturing, and very little else. It's cheap to install, and if it's what you have, it's fine, but I don't know why anyone would want it over the other materials.
Yeah, I should figure out what the material is.
Maybe butcher block? Stainless is a bit too much like a morgue. Or somehow getting the pieces secondhand or accepting offcuts may be more economical/involve less injury.
Granite is at least a step in the right direction in this area. It's not an elimination of silica, but it apparently contains half of what quartz was. Marble contains very little, but that's likely financially of reach for most people. Corian is another alternative, but isn't a durable or heat resistant as stone. I'd take any of those over formica. Tile is also a pain to keep clean due to grout, and I don't like that look for countertops.
From the article:
...
...
...
Would masks work at all? Though that brings up the issue of this being a job that's taken by tons of tiny outfits who will likely not bother with investing in proper PPE
When fitted properly, a P100 respirator would remove 99.97% of 0.3 um particles. This class of respirators is used in variety of environments, from medical to industrial to radiological.
That said, the hierarchy of controls dictates engineered controls as being preferable to PPE, which is considered to be the last line of defense.
My thinking is that a lot of this type of work isn't done in a shop as such, where you can build ventilation and enclosed room and whatnot, but rather on-site? Granted, my knowledge is based on wooden kitchen counters, where they'll cut the holes and do the final work (but no polishing or such) right there.
The issue with masks is also wearing them right... we use FFP3 masks at work (reusables, with big thick filters, silicone body), and getting the right seal means being clean shaven, means tightening the straps right, etc. I've 100% been in the position where laziness meant it wasn't sitting properly. Fortunately what we're dealing with isn't nearly as bad as the stuff in the article.
I seem to recall (from an NPR thing a year or so ago) that a lot of this final work is done in steel framed, warehouse-type buildings, which makes sense: cheap, protects the product, contains dust from the general public. For total separation of the workers, you’d need to add a negative pressure ventilation system, with a robust barrier between the control room and the production side. That’s likely to drive up costs significantly (negating an advantage of engineered stone).
The right type of masks, manufactured to proper specs would help a lot.
Maybe a good use case for automation? If we could manufacture these in a closed environment with no people (perhaps using a CNC-type machine), it would prevent this issue.
In theory, a company that makes the countertops could ship them pre-cut and they’d have a lot more control over the process in their factory (automated or not), so they could do it right. It would be easy enough if they were making tables or benches with stone tops.
The construction industry didn’t end up structured that way, though. Sure, there are lots of manufactured components, but also lots of work is done on site, and they need the flexibility that comes from cutting things to fit.
Example: if there’s a metal sink, you can’t change the size of the sink, so the counter is what needs to be cut. Some part of the structure has to customizable enough to accommodate the fixed components. (Often that’s wood.)
I don’t know how the countertop industry is structured though.
There is typically a stone manufacturer that sells just stone slabs (either natural or engineered). These are manufactured or ground to thickness and usually polished, but have rough edges and come in varying sizes based on the stone. A countertop fabricator (the company you as a homeowner or contractor would end up going to for the actual countertops) will buy those slabs from the manufacturer. They will come to your house, make a template, and fabricate your countertops from the templates. They're the ones that do most of the cutting - cutting the slab down to countertop size, holes for sinks/outlets/cooktops, rounding the edges, etc. Any exposed cuts are polished. The only cuts they'll make on-site might be faucets or soap dispensers. I've had some do this after install with a drill and vacuum, and some do it before hand in their shop.
Most stone countertops will have undermount sinks. Because the cutout of the sink hole is exposed and require polishing, those can't be done on-site. If you supply the sink, they'll take it with them for cutting out the hole.
Countertops just can't be precut. There are too many kitchen cabinet configurations for that to be possible.
Good to know.
So it’s not onsite, but it’s a local shop. It seems like in theory some kind of franchise could work? It could be like Kinkos. They could put in the machinery as “this is how we run our shops. Buy this model. Do it like this.”
I wonder why something like that hasn’t happened yet?
Hmm, I suppose it could work in theory. But the construction industry doesn't really do much franchising in general. I imagine that people who are in that industry and are used to doing everything themselves wouldn't take kindly to a corporation telling them how to do their jobs and run their business.
I'm guessing someone who starts a restaurant needs to invest quite a bit of money and a business plan that more-or-less guarantees results (or at least reduces risk) is attractive to some owners, looking at it as an investor?
It doesn't seem like that's what's going on with contracting?
When you are buying into a franchise, you're basically buying into a brand. The reason that a franchise model tells you to purchase (or sells you) specific equipment, gives you recipes and supplies, etc is because the franchise corporation will strongly dictate how you run your business in order to maintain its brand standards. McDonalds is a classic example of this. Every McDonalds that you go to, at least in the US (their menu varies around the world), is pretty much identical. They are super consistent and have extremely stringent franchise standards. For better or worse, you know what you're getting when you go there. But as a franchisee, you have to take their trainings, use their decor, buy their ingredients and equipment, and operate to their standards.
So you franchise a restaurant when you want to "own" a business, but don't want to have to build a brand from the bottom up. It's a very powerful model in the restaurant industry, because lots of people prefer to eat places that they know as opposed to new/unknown places, so they eat at chains. It's also why most franchisees own multiple locations - the work of marketing, supply chain, corporate management, etc is all done by the corporation. So you have time to run multiple locations with less overhead. You also get to take advantage of McDonalds economies of scale with their supplier, which helps keep costs down.
The construction industry doesn't really care much about brand when it comes to the service side of things, and even for most materials. That's why there aren't really national contracting firms, at least for residential services. There are indeed some exceptions, such as Bath Fitter, but it's so rare. The expense of a franchise model doesn't really make sense if the value of a franchise is the brand, but the industry doesn't care about branding.
And to reinforce your ideas here, people will tend to eat at franchises they know and have learned to trust to some degree, because people eat food several times a day. But I’ll be honest I struggle to see a regular person getting benchtops even half a dozen times across an entire lifetime, so the opportunity to built trust and recognition and brand identity just isn’t there.
This breaks my heart to read these men, not even my age (31), have terminal diagnoses. I truly hope the state (and country, and world) does something to ban these or get workers supplied masks and anything else they need to be safe. Hell, no one needs a damned stone countertop. Ban them and have something safer replace it. It's a damn countertop.